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Project CARS 2 discussion thread (provisional release date: Septemberish 2017)

Mascot

Member
Not bad, although the lighting looks very flat and I'm not seeing the camera-work that would convince me that the replays are worth watching yet. The variety of cars looks really good (as expected), and the dynamic surface stuff looks interesting.

I eulogised recently about the lighting in Project CARS. It still has the ability to amaze me at times, especially with low sun angles at dawn or dusk and when the cars travel from shadow to sunlight. The variable weather coupled with dynamic ToD keeps throwing up some beautiful combinations for me even two years down the line. I really can't wait to experience the new improvements first-hand, especially with the addition of seasonal changes.
 
I really don't understand why they come out with a release date now before E3, when GTS and FM7 will (probably) be going public with their release dates.

Maybe they have some insider about the GTS date and know from MS when Scorpio will release and bet on FM7 being released alongside Scorpio.

Though, having played GTS and read Youtube comments on it, I'm not sure if it might not actually be good for pCARS2 to release close to it and probably with a way better metacritic score. Even when Team VVV or ISRTV talk about GTS negatively there aren't many people defending it in the comments. That definitely used to be different at least on ISRTV.
SMS really need to nail that controller handling and get critics talking very positively about it, I think that will be a big key for success sales wise.
 

Klocker

Member
That dude is high energy...


I know FM7 looks phenomenal but I really think I'm still sticking with this even for XOX enhanced.

Damn. really liked PC1 even though it had many flaws and looked like shit on XB1 (except lighting) but damn this game is so visceral and the variety that they are adding and the dynamic time of day and seasons... really get me going
 
Those are really beautiful, sound is great, the driver is kinda ok, physic look "simulation".

but in this video:
https://youtu.be/PVbYMcUthc4?t=1m28s
at 1:31 he brakes, turns in, it does not seem like the inside wheel is locking up and yet the car doesn't turn(or at least "there is some real understeer going on there"), as he leaves off the brake, the car starts to turn.

A lot of cars in Project CARS 1 have this too, other cars have the opposite issue, where braking and turning leads to extreme oversteer without tire lock-up. It's my number one issue with pCARS1 and it still seems to be there in pCARS2.
I mean, it doesn't seem suuper pronounced, but I'm more skeptical again. pCARS1 had cars too where I could feel this understeer without lock-up only a little too, could be that pCARS2 hast just as many cars where is this issue is just as prevalent.
 

Gestault

Member
00O4ib6.gif


OM15PRq.gif


Bannochbrae is such a cool setting.

Edit: Boink, lol

N0ExSE8.gif
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Sorry if I missed it, is this puppy native 4k on 1X? 60fps?

There's been, as far as I'm aware, zero details on console performance. I'm dying to know how the x1x stacks up too. Im hoping for a 4k mode as well as a 1080p mode, but we'll see. It does sound like they'll be putting a bit more work into consoles this go around at least. The games already playable with a pad! ;)
 

fresquito

Member
Those are really beautiful, sound is great, the driver is kinda ok, physic look "simulation".

but in this video:
https://youtu.be/PVbYMcUthc4?t=1m28s
at 1:31 he brakes, turns in, it does not seem like the inside wheel is locking up and yet the car doesn't turn(or at least "there is some real understeer going on there"), as he leaves off the brake, the car starts to turn.

A lot of cars in Project CARS 1 have this too, other cars have the opposite issue, where braking and turning leads to extreme oversteer without tire lock-up. It's my number one issue with pCARS1 and it still seems to be there in pCARS2.
I mean, it doesn't seem suuper pronounced, but I'm more skeptical again. pCARS1 had cars too where I could feel this understeer without lock-up only a little too, could be that pCARS2 hast just as many cars where is this issue is just as prevalent.
I don't know why you are ignoring the huge bump in the braking zone. If anything that moment highlights the new differential work on turn exist, where the car doesn't lock into the turn inside like it did in PC1 (worst physics problem in PC1, IMO).
 
Not that they haven't already shown plenty of enticing enduro machinery, but are there any other Le Mans reveals in the pipeline, what with the 24 Hours this weekend and all?
 
I don't know why you are ignoring the huge bump in the braking zone. If anything that moment highlights the new differential work on turn exist, where the car doesn't lock into the turn inside like it did in PC1 (worst physics problem in PC1, IMO).
If by "bump" you mean the end of going uphill (going even again) and haveing front-end lift and understeer from that, then, yes I've seen that, that's a second before.
I didn't understand anything else you've said but differentials have nothing to do with what I'm talking about, except if the engine is helping the brake off-throttle from somewhat extreme brake-mapping, which I wouldn't believe it is.
And no need to try and explain this to me, I don't want to talk physics with you either way.
 

fresquito

Member
If by "bump" you mean the end of going uphill (going even again) and haveing front-end lift and understeer from that, then, yes I've seen that, that's a second before.
I didn't understand anything else you've said but differentials have nothing to do with what I'm talking about, except if the engine is helping the brake off-throttle from somewhat extreme brake-mapping, which I wouldn't believe it is.
And no need to try and explain this to me, I don't want to talk physics with you either way.
No, it's not a second before. The guy brakes late and goes wide. His next lap he does better. Probably playing the circuit would help you understand what's going on (it's the trickiest part of this circuit, IMO).

I didn't say it has anything to do with the differential, just that this particular moment (turn exit) highlights the new driveline tech.
 
No, it's not a second before. The guy brakes late and goes wide. His next lap he does better. Probably playing the circuit would help you understand what's going on (it's the trickiest part of this circuit, IMO).
Ok, looking at it hitting pause a lot, almost frame-by-frame I'm not 100% certain anymore. So be it, benefit of the doubt ...and you're right, I should play that car/track combo myself before passing final judgement.

I didn't say it has anything to do with the differential, just that this particular moment (turn exit) highlights the new driveline tech.
Oh, ok, corner exit.
But, well, I don't see anything unusual on exit *shrugs*. Seems to be good FFB though if the driver can do such a short, little and quick counter-steer correction from too much throttle very shortly after the apex.

Never had a problem with rear differentials in pCARS1 to be honest, except that the standard setups were weird/unrealistic in some cars.
 

fresquito

Member
Oh, ok, corner exit.
But, well, I don't see anything unusual on exit *shrugs*. Seems to be good FFB though if the driver can do such a short, little and quick counter-steer correction from too much throttle very shortly after the apex.

Never had a problem with rear differentials in pCARS1 to be honest, except that the standard setups were weird/unrealistic in some cars.
It's the usual behaviour of a car, yes, but it's not the usual PC1 behaviour. The main problems with PC1 physics, IMO, were grip gain/loss (felt too digital), and the differential. Grip under braking is what I understand you were talking about in your post (correct me if I'm wrong). Differential was my main complaint, though. On corner exit, some classes more than others, would lock down the direction under too much throttle, and would keep locked even after release. Gr. 5 class comes to mind. GT3 was okaish, I guess. It felt like racing on wet conditions more often than not and was not only unrealistic, but also unfun.
 
It's the usual behaviour of a car, yes, but it's not the usual PC1 behaviour. The main problems with PC1 physics, IMO, were grip gain/loss (felt too digital), and the differential. Grip under braking is what I understand you were talking about in your post (correct me if I'm wrong).
yea, digital is a good word, the gradient was off.


I didn't want to talk physics with you, but here we go... my problem is not really "grip" under braking, but turn-in response. A good racing driver steps on the brake (hard! in a car with downforce), then leaves off the brake the slower the car gets (as the grip gets lower from less downforce), before he is off the brake entirely, he starts to turn-in. I'm not really talking about trail-braking to get the most deceleration out of the time before the apex, I'm talking about weight-shifting and most of all combined-slip. Under braking front tire load is higher(weightshift) so you got more grip on the steered tires, also, when turning in under braking the outer front tire has a higher load than the inner tire and has more grip, can take the brake force better then the inner tire.
Now the real thing: The inside tire... if you brake too much, it easily locks up (less grip than outside tire), if you brake too little, it has less grip, because the more slip, the more grip, unless you go over the limit... just from lateral cornering force, the inside tire does not get to the limit. Additionally, this inside-tire brake-grip helps the car to rotate.
In pCARS1 some cars had tremendous understeer under braking. This should only be the case if a tire locks up and has almost no grip anymore. Even worse, as soon as you'd leave off the brake, all of a sudden the car (with the weight still shifted to the front) would go for the still steered angle from your wheel input and you'd get heavy oversteer.

Differential was my main complaint, though. On corner exit, some classes more than others, would lock down the direction under too much throttle, and would keep locked even after release. Gr. 5 class comes to mind. GT3 was okaish, I guess. It felt like racing on wet conditions more often than not and was not only unrealistic, but also unfun.
If I understand you right, you're talking about on-throttle understeer because the rear wheels refuse to turn and different speeds as if they are 100% locked by the differential.
And... I don't really remember that from pCARS1. Some cars have on-throttle undertseer. A Gr.5 Porsche 935 has a wider rear track than in the front, also wider rear tires, that alone can cause understeer, but it also has no differential, but a spool (basically a 100% locked differential). I don't know for sure, but I assume a BMW 320 or the Capri also had pretty heavily locked diffs that should cause off-throttle, but also some on-throttle understeer in tighter corners.
For GT3 cars on-throttle understeer can be caused from the mid-engine layout if the weight-balance is slightly towards the rear.
 

fresquito

Member
Yes, I know what you mean. It was certainly something missing from PC1, although it didn't bother me that much compared to mid corner behaviour on fast corners and mid/slow corner exit.

About the differential, the problem is not the oversteer on throttle (that's what it's meant to do), but the lockup that came afterwards.

Basically, the problem you mention and the problems I'm talking about made the driving not only unrealistically punishing, but also less organic and fun than desired.
 
Yes, I know what you mean. It was certainly something missing from PC1, although it didn't bother me that much compared to mid corner behaviour on fast corners and mid/slow corner exit.

About the differential, the problem is not the oversteer on throttle (that's what it's meant to do), but the lockup that came afterwards.

Basically, the problem you mention and the problems I'm talking about made the driving not only unrealistically punishing, but also less organic and fun than desired.
I think I know what you mean now about the differential. Maybe I should pick a Gr.5 car for doing a few laps in pCARS1 around Le Mans before Saturday.

Either way, I hope you understood me correctly and the braking thing is really better in pCARS2.
--> Again slightly more optimistic (I know, I know,I have my ups and downs on Project CARS 2)
 

fresquito

Member
I think I know what you mean now about the differential. Maybe I should pick a Gr.5 car for doing a few laps in pCARS1 around Le Mans before Saturday.

Either way, I hope you understood me correctly and the braking thing is really better in pCARS2.
--> Again slightly more optimistic (I know, I know,I have my ups and downs on Project CARS 2)
Oulton right turn after second chicane or Donington second right hander before the back straight that ends in the chicane come to mind as good examples of this weird behaviour.

On being positive on the game or not. In the end you'll need to try by yourself or find someone you can trust.
 
God I just love the helmet cam look/feel. Something Project Cars has over any upcoming racing game that gives it that much of an edge for me, alongside the race weekend structure. I really hope the pad issues are truly ironed out this time around.
 

Klocker

Member
Yea very excited for this game, this game needs more love damn... for car collecting F7 but for racing specifically motorsport, and multicass racing, race weekends, helmet cam and dynamic time of day changes and weather and Xbox x enhanced... damn, need this game
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
So this doesn't go unnoticed, from the digital foundry fm7 thread:

I think Project Cars 2 is the more ambitious game, technically. Will be curious to see how it runs on consoles since they rewrote so much of the engine and told me that they are getting much higher frame-rates on consoles even in full grids with weather than the original game. PC should be super optimized as well.
 

fresquito

Member
Yesterday I gave the game a go with max settings (sans max particles density and Max EnvMap), 15AIs, rain and was getting around 45-50 fps with my old trusty 770 4GB. So, yeah, big performance improvements on my end (would get 25-35 with similar settings in PC1). Still, ways to go until performance and polish is done, so let's see how it ends up looking and performing.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Yea very excited for this game, this game needs more love damn... for car collecting F7 but for racing specifically motorsport, and multicass racing, race weekends, helmet cam and dynamic time of day changes and weather and Xbox x enhanced... damn, need this game

Im interested but I don't get why they handicapped themselves. Of course Forza 7 and GT Sport are going to get the attention with the same fall release window.
 

fresquito

Member
Im interested but I don't get why they handicapped themselves. Of course Forza 7 and GT Sport are going to get the attention with the same fall release window.
I think the biggest handicap for PC2 is PC1. In all honesty, I might be missing something, but I simply don't understand why anybody would prefer GTSport or Forza over PC2, other than because they don't trust SMS after PC1.
 

GHG

Member
I think the biggest handicap for PC2 is PC1. In all honesty, I might be missing something, but I simply don't understand why anybody would prefer GTSport or Forza over PC2, other than because they don't trust SMS after PC1.

Some people just want to drive cars, not race them, that's why. You can see that based on some of the comments in GT/Forza threads. Some people genuinely see realism as a negative thing (e.g. Lower visibility in wet weather and night scenarios).

It's all fair enough IMO, at least we are blessed enough to have something for everyone these days, which hasn't been the case before in the past.
 
I think the biggest handicap for PC2 is PC1. In all honesty, I might be missing something, but I simply don't understand why anybody would prefer GTSport or Forza over PC2, other than because they don't trust SMS after PC1.
No there are many more reasons. Their brands are huge, GT has a special place in the hearts of many racing fans and you only get one every 4 years or so, many have skipped GT6 since it was a PS3 title released after the PS4 was out, for those players it's 7 years since thy've played their favorite racing game from the past. In the replays the game looks absolutely phenomenal with very natural lighting and no sharp jaggies. Forza finally has dynamic lighting and weather, it is the showcase title for everyone going to get an XB1X. The game will have almost 700 highly detailed cars.
Also most casual racing game players want to try out these cool supercars they see on Top Gear and in car magazines. Tuning a car they car they could afford themselves irl to the max and overtake Lamborghinis is another thing that many players - especially the wants not so interested in motorpsort - want from the one racing game they buy once twice every 2 years.
And let's not forget that these games, while not up to real sim standards in many aspects and have kinda shallow or even bad FFB - play very well with a controller, willing to compromise many less noticable sim aspects for better controller handling.

That GT Sport might go open Beta and Forza now is on PC and always releases a demo shortly before the release, while pCARS2 says no to offering a demo, is also not helping.

In my opinion bad reviews will hurt GTS sales and quite a few PS4 gamers will get pCARS2 - if it reviews better than pCARS1 with mentionings of now solved issues these players might have had with pCARS1. Forza on the other hand will probably get some amazing reviews from non sim-racing sites.
 

fresquito

Member
Some people just want to drive cars, not race them, that's why. You can see that based on some of the comments in GT/Forza threads. Some people genuinely see realism as a negative thing (e.g. Lower visibility in wet weather and night scenarios).

It's all fair enough IMO, at least we are blessed enough to have something for everyone these days, which hasn't been the case before in the past.
Aren't weather and ToD two selling points for these titles now?

No there are many more reasons. Their brands are huge, GT has a special place in the hearts of many racing fans and you only get one every 4 years or so, many have skipped GT6 since it was a PS3 title released after the PS4 was out, for those players it's 7 years since thy've played their favorite racing game from the past. In the replays the game looks absolutely phenomenal with very natural lighting and no sharp jaggies. Forza finally has dynamic lighting and weather, it is the showcase title for everyone going to get an XB1X. The game will have almost 700 highly detailed cars.
Also most casual racing game players want to try out these cool supercars they see on Top Gear and in car magazines. Tuning a car they car they could afford themselves irl to the max and overtake Lamborghinis is another thing that many players - especially the wants not so interested in motorpsort - want from the one racing game they buy once twice every 2 years.
And let's not forget that these games, while not up to real sim standards in many aspects and have kinda shallow or even bad FFB - play very well with a controller, willing to compromise many less noticable sim aspects for better controller handling.

That GT Sport might go open Beta and Forza now is on PC and always releases a demo shortly before the release, while pCARS2 says no to offering a demo, is also not helping.

In my opinion bad reviews will hurt GTS sales and quite a few PS4 gamers will get pCARS2 - if it reviews better than pCARS1 with mentionings of now solved issues these players might have had with pCARS1. Forza on the other hand will probably get some amazing reviews from non sim-racing sites.
I meant objective reasons. I know and kinda understand why many people are so attached to these brands. But from an objective point of view, these brands are way behind the loop nowadays. They only count because they are backed by gargantuan companies and are huge franchises themselves. But they don't offer anything new in the genre, which is kinda sad, considering how many millions have been invested in them.
 

GHG

Member
Yeah but I have a bad feeling they might be biting off more than they can chew.

PC is the primary platform for PCars. It's unfortunate for console players but it's PC first then ported over to consoles. So from that perspective I find it difficult to agree with that statement.

I thought F7 was still not dynamic time of day?

Static time baked in with dynamic weather only?

To be honest, we have no idea for sure yet. I'm hoping it's fully dynamic because it's always better to have all the options open when setting races up.

Aren't weather and ToD two selling points for these titles now?

Yeh they are but there are people out there who hate racing in the rain because of the added challenge it introduces. Don't ask me why.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
The fact that they said much higher frame rates rather than locked frame rates is concerning.

We're still always away from optimization and lock down. I'm not concerned. The fact that it's significantly better, and we have x1x and pro, sounds like it should be significantly better
 
I thought F7 was still not dynamic time of day?

Static time baked in with dynamic weather only?
Ok, I haven't heard anyone actually say "ToD", but they said "dynamic lighting" on the DF analysis video, also the gameplay video started with medium-heavy cloud cover and ended in a really dark thundestorm, if you'd prebake a transitionlike that, the lighting data would be a gigantic file.
 

fresquito

Member
Ok, I haven't heard anyone actually say "ToD", but they said "dynamic lighting" on the DF analysis video, also the gameplay video started with medium-heavy cloud cover and ended in a really dark thundestorm, if you'd prebake a transitionlike that, the lighting data would be a gigantic file.
Doesn't the game require a 100GB install?
 
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