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Project CARS 2 discussion thread (provisional release date: Septemberish 2017)

MilkyJoe

MilkyJoe

Member
M

Mascot

Member
MilkyJoe said:
He clearly is quoting the "rock solid 60fps" and not the 4k/60.
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I don't know about that. It could be read both ways.

Why would he say that somebody's 'hope' was news to him? I'm more inclined to think he was commenting on the 'facts' in the 4k/60 quote.
 
D

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
They really should delay this game six months or even a year. For most people this holiday season will be Forza 7 on Xbox and GTS on PS4. They will sell maybe a couple of hundred thousand units, but next year they could sell to the people that bought the other games since the next Forza Motorsport will be one and a half years away and the next GT three to four. Just a missed opportunity. While I am into sim and circuit racing I won't put 200 hours each in Forza 7 and PCars2. It gets boring at some point.
 
M

Mascot

Member
darkinstinct said:
They really should delay this game six months or even a year. For most people this holiday season will be Forza 7 on Xbox and GTS on PS4. They will sell maybe a couple of hundred thousand units, but next year they could sell to the people that bought the other games since the next Forza Motorsport will be one and a half years away and the next GT three to four. Just a missed opportunity. While I am into sim and circuit racing I won't put 200 hours each in Forza 7 and PCars2. It gets boring at some point.
Click to expand...

I don't think a delay is an option this time, unless as an absolute last resort due to a massive technical issue. Bandai Namco are dictating the release date and I'd guess it's been strategically set to get the jump on FM7 and GTS.

Anyway, if pCARS 2 realises its ambition then it's perhaps those other two games that should be worried. Okay, both have much better brand awareness and established fan bases (especially with the casual gamer) but pCARS 2 is bringing much, much more to the table than FM7 or GTS. The only thing counting against it is its reputation from the first game as a buggy, erratic, unplayable (with a joypad) and indecipherably overly-complicated experience, but all of those things have reportedly been firmly addressed this time around.

danowat said:
I'd like to assume the PS Pro would be the same?

Edit :

Welp

Project CARS 2 promises native 4K on Xbox One X,PlayStation 4 Pro uncertain
Click to expand...

See previous page, good buddy.

:p
 
MilkyJoe

MilkyJoe

Member
Mascot said:
I don't know about that. It could be read both ways.

Why would he say that somebody's 'hope' was news to him? I'm more inclined to think he was commenting on the 'facts' in the 4k/60 quote.
Click to expand...

Because he didnt quote the 4K/60 post and the frame rate was up and down in the last game.


Edit - you might be right actually, I misread his reply to you
 
M

Mascot

Member
TJP said:
That's why I didn't take the bait when you posted in the PC sim racing thread :)
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Me, earlier:

flipflops.jpg
Click to expand...
 
GenericUser

GenericUser

Member
Is any info available how the game will perform on a standard ps4. Can we expect a similar performance as pc1 (very often 60fps, dips into the 40 under heavy load)?
 
M

Mascot

Member
sponk said:
Is any info available how the game will perform on a standard ps4. Can we expect a similar performance as pc1 (very often 60fps, dips into the 40 under heavy load)?
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I'm sure Ian Bell has stated (in the GTP Q&A linked in the first post in this thread?) that pCARS 2 performs better on consoles than pCARS 1 does due to engine improvements and optimisations, despite the extra burden that LiveTrack 3.0 brings. I don't think there's any vanilla console footage released yet though.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Honestly would love for pc ports on x1x (and pro?) to offer a 1080p mode with everything else as close to pc max settings as possible.
 
M

Mascot

Member
op_ivy said:
Honestly would love for pc ports on x1x (and pro?) to offer a 1080p mode with everything else as close to pc mad settings as possible.
Click to expand...

It'll be interesting to see how it's 'tuned' for consoles. Ian said earlier that it won't be a locked 60fps on consoles.

We don't like the term 'locked'. It would put us in first party territory where chest beating is more important than a great experience. We'll be 60 most of the time in normal racing and we'll push the consoles to and beyond their limits for more interesting racing. Even if that means dropping a few frames.
Click to expand...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-2-general-discussion-thread-coming-september-22nd-2017.342814/page-155#post-11859906

Personally I'd like the *option* on consoles to drop the resolution down to, say, 900p (or have a dynamic resolution) if it meant having a consistent 60fps, but if I want that i buy a PC, amirite?
 
GenericUser

GenericUser

Member
I have absolutely no problem with the game dropping into the 50s or even mid 40s as long as it is a rare occurrence. You have to consider what you'll get with the game (hopefully): a top notch sim experience with a lot of cars on track.

Performence on pc1 was already ok for me, so as long as they can keep that level, I'm good.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Mascot said:
It'll be interesting to see how it's 'tuned' for consoles. Ian said earlier that it won't be a locked 60fps on consoles.



https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-2-general-discussion-thread-coming-september-22nd-2017.342814/page-155#post-11859906

Personally I'd like the *option* on consoles to drop the resolution down to, say, 900p (or have a dynamic resolution) if it meant having a consistent 60fps, but if I want that i buy a PC, amirite?
Click to expand...

I'm with Ian here, 60 fps with a few drops is fine, and not worth the costs that I'd imagine are required to lock it at 60.

It all sounds good, really hope these guys deliver. Also hoping the promote the various versions before launch rather then just the pc build.
 
Darklor01

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
Did anyone actually expect any current AAA title, or even close to AAA title to be native 4K on PS4 Pro? Did anyone expect even Checkerboard 4K on PS4 Pro at 60FPS? I own one and I sure as hell don't.

If people can get that on the XBOX One X for sure, and they want to buy one, go for it! Don't let other people judge how you spend your money. I Just hope those that are hoping to get either Native 4K AAA games and/or 60FPS on that system get it.
 
M

Mascot

Member
sponk said:
Performence on pc1 was already ok for me, so as long as they can keep that level, I'm good.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was fine with it - even more so on the Pro in Boost Mode, which actually made wet night races pretty slick. If they can deliver similar performance with pCARS 2 then I'd be okay with that. Locked 60 would be nice, but unrealistic I guess. Unless dynamic resolutions...

Darklor01 said:
Did anyone actually expect any current AAA title, or even close to AAA title to be native 4K on PS4 Pro? Did anyone expect even Checkerboard 4K on PS4 Pro at 60FPS? I own one and I sure as hell don't.

If people can get that on the XBOX One X for sure, and they want to buy one, go for it! Don't let other people judge how you spend your money. I Just hope those that are hoping to get either Native 4K AAA games and/or 60FPS on that system get it.
Click to expand...

All the 4k/60 chat has been about the XOX version, following an erroneous Dutch website report. It seemed like a possibility after the FM7 demos. So to answer your question: no, nobody expected 4k/60 on PS Pro, and I don't think anyone ever said that they did.
 
S

soundscream

Member
Mascot said:
It'll be interesting to see how it's 'tuned' for consoles. Ian said earlier that it won't be a locked 60fps on consoles.



https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-2-general-discussion-thread-coming-september-22nd-2017.342814/page-155#post-11859906

Personally I'd like the *option* on consoles to drop the resolution down to, say, 900p (or have a dynamic resolution) if it meant having a consistent 60fps, but if I want that i buy a PC, amirite?
Click to expand...

Excuse me Mr. Bell but a locked 60fps is a great experience.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
soundscream said:
Excuse me Mr. Bell but a locked 60fps is a great experience.
Click to expand...

It can be, but if it runs at 60fps 90% of the time and the overall experience is better than anything else out there then nobody will really care. I don't think it would be worth shrinking the grid, removing the fully dynamic TOD/Weather/Track features etc just so that the game can be 60fps all of the time.

What do I care anyway, I'm playing this on the PC.
 
F

fresquito

Member
soundscream said:
Excuse me Mr. Bell but a locked 60fps is a great experience.
Click to expand...
I don't think anybody is saying otherwise. But locked 60fps in a dynamic game like this is unrealistic with today's consoles.

For reference, in PC1, in daylight, with 32 cars I can hit 160fps. In rain, on Start, I hit 50-55. When I'm alone, it's mostly 60fps. I would call that a sweet spot. For locked 60fps I would be forced to turn so many things down and on clear conditions I would probably be hitting like 180-200fps. I don't think the tradeoff is worth it. Do you?
 
S

soundscream

Member
GHG said:
It can be, but if it runs at 60fps 90% of the time and the overall experience is better than anything else out there then nobody will really care. I don't think it would be worth shrinking the grid, removing the fully dynamic TOD/Weather/Track features etc just so that the game can be 60fps all of the time.

What do I care anyway, I'm playing this on the PC.
Click to expand...

Im sensetive to that 10% of the time. I want locked framerates at all times 30 or 60 the fluctuations in between or below drive me crazy.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
fresquito said:
I don't think anybody is saying otherwise. But locked 60fps in a dynamic game like this is unrealistic with today's consoles.

For reference, in PC1, in daylight, with 32 cars I can hit 160fps. In rain, on Start, I hit 50-55. When I'm alone, it's mostly 60fps. I would call that a sweet spot. For locked 60fps I would be forced to turn so many things down and on clear conditions I would probably be hitting like 180-200fps. I don't think the tradeoff is worth it. Do you?
Click to expand...

Good point. Even I wasn't considering the variance in frame rate something like pcars2 has versus something like forza.
 
GenericUser

GenericUser

Member
soundscream said:
Im sensetive to that 10% of the time. I want locked framerates at all times 30 or 60 the fluctuations in between or below drive me crazy.
Click to expand...

Play on PC then. I think they devs are making everything possible on consoles that is doable considering their high ambitions on physics and graphics.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
sponk said:
Play on PC then. I think they devs are making everything possible on consoles that is doable considering their high ambitions on physics and graphics.
Click to expand...

There seems a bit of a conflict going crazy on the physics and then undoing that a little with the 'don't care about framerate'..

But there doesn't need to be any conflict on any platform, 'sim mode' should be something all racers give us, which means locked fps.. 'normal mode' can have as much variance as you want.. then let the player decide.

I am hoping we do get the option to at least take advantage of freesync on X1X, if they can keep the fps mainly at 60 and occasionally drop to >45fps with no stuttering or screen tearing I'd probably be super happy with that..
 
S

soundscream

Member
sponk said:
Play on PC then. I think they devs are making everything possible on consoles that is doable considering their high ambitions on physics and graphics.
Click to expand...

I dont have/want a gaming pc. If they cant deliver a solid fps then I simply wont invest, but dont act like asking for them to deliver a solid fps is a crazy request.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
fresquito said:
Are you serious?
Click to expand...

As a concept? absolutely..

It really depends on the developers approach from the ground up, it's as simple as that..

As a nod to the notion, FM7 has a locked 60fps when racing, and drops to 30fps in replays.. in theory could you get towards this approach as an option? i.e. 30fps in game or 60fps in game depending on graphical settings? Alright, it's not that simple but it's not totally crazy IMO.

Or Halo MCC, you can even switch on the fly between old/new graphics, one is silky smooth, the other looks nicer but has more framerate issues..

Or any game that is 30fps campaign, 60fps multiplayer, whilst neither probably are 'locked' the graphics fidelity is different to allow different fps targets..

Do I think pCARS can at this moment actually change to give these options, NO.. VRR would be my most realistic hope.
 
F

fresquito

Member
Snubbers said:
As a concept? absolutely..

It really depends on the developers approach from the ground up, it's as simple as that..

As a nod to the notion, FM7 has a locked 60fps when racing, and drops to 30fps in replays.. in theory could you get towards this approach as an option? i.e. 30fps in game or 60fps in game depending on graphical settings? Alright, it's not that simple but it's not totally crazy IMO.

Or Halo MCC, you can even switch on the fly between old/new graphics, one is silky smooth, the other looks nicer but has more framerate issues..

Or any game that is 30fps campaign, 60fps multiplayer, whilst neither probably are 'locked' the graphics fidelity is different to allow different fps targets..

Do I think pCARS can at this moment actually change to give these options, NO.. VRR would be my most realistic hope.
Click to expand...
You mixing sim mode with graphic settings so easily, I honestly think you have little clue on how development works.
 
G

Gestault

Member
I think we may be getting hung up on terminology, but the idea of having pre-set/balanced "performance" and "high-quality" modes as options for the console versions isn't unprecedented or unreasonably difficult to implement.
 
MilkyJoe

MilkyJoe

Member
Gestault said:
I think we may be getting hung up on terminology, but the idea of having pre-set/balanced "performance" and "high-quality" modes as options for the console versions isn't unprecedented or unreasonably difficult to implement.
Click to expand...

PC1 has graphics settings on console.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Seriously... If anyone is that concerned with having 60fps 100% of the time then you owe it to youself to get at least a semi-capable gaming PC so that you can have full control of the settings and your hardware in order to achieve that.

Because generally, outside of a handful of 1st party titles on consoles, getting 60fps locked at all times doesn't happen.

But who am I kidding, even if they stripped back the graphics and the dynamic stuff in order to get 60fos then console players would complain about a "gimped" experience.

This is an instance of a game where they are not holding things back for the sake of consoles, it's not a bad thing.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
fresquito said:
You mixing sim mode with graphic settings so easily, I honestly think you have little clue on how development works.
Click to expand...

Please enlighten me, I was rather over simplifying the premise/concept to show the idea that balancing of hardware resources in two different ways is fairly common (And yes, I understand the technical differences of why a 'sim-esque' racing game like pCARS couldn't do exactly the same as the analogies I gave),? Or are you really thinking more of the commercial aspect rather than the technical?
 
G

Gestault

Member
MilkyJoe said:
PC1 has graphics settings on console.
Click to expand...

I know this (and own it on all platforms), but there was never a set of options to actually handle the performance drops. That was why I specified a performance mode and a high-quality mode (and also clarifying what the other person seemed to be trying to describe). Unless the engine is somehow unable to run at a steady rate, which is highly unlikely.

I was responding to someone who outright said someone else didn't understand game development because they proposed an option like that.
 
Bobnob

Bobnob

Member
GHG said:
Seriously... If anyone is that concerned with having 60fps 100% of the time then you owe it to youself to get at least a semi-capable gaming PC so that you can have full control of the settings and your hardware in order to achieve that.

Because generally, outside of a handful of 1st party titles on consoles, getting 60fps locked at all times doesn't happen.

But who am I kidding, even if they stripped back the graphics and the dynamic stuff in order to get 60fos then console players would complain about a "gimped" experience.

This is an instance of a game where they are not holding things back for the sake of consoles, it's not a bad thing.
Click to expand...
If we had a locked 60 in all conditions 1080 i'd be very happy. If we had a higher res with few dips i'd be pissed.
 
F

fresquito

Member
Snubbers said:
Please enlighten me, I was rather over simplifying the premise/concept to show the idea that balancing of hardware resources in two different ways is fairly common (And yes, I understand the technical differences of why a 'sim-esque' racing game like pCARS couldn't do exactly the same as the analogies I gave),? Or are you really thinking more of the commercial aspect rather than the technical?
Click to expand...
I'm thinking about the whole thing. Implementing such options costs so many man hours. It doesn't make sense neither from a development point of view (developing parallel core systems), nor a QA point of view (look at PC1, this is not a simple game. adding more complexity will not help in having a smoother experience, that's for sure), nor development time, nor financial investment vs. potential return.

Then, like GHG says, if you add these options, a part of the console gamers will be against adding these performance options, will call them lazy for not taking the time to make it happen because Forza does it so it can be done. Basically, no matter what devs do they are screwed because gamers don't know shit about games and don't want to understand their super duper consoles have super duper weak CPUs and you can't ask a game that does so many things as Project CARS 2 to be the same as Forza 7 or GT, which can hardly be labelled as sims.

So, yeah, I think having drops when in specific conditions, while keeping 60fps most of the times is a huge achievement and anybody wanting PC2 offering more than that on a console and still looking great, should make some serious reality check.
 
Darklor01

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
Mascot said:
All the 4k/60 chat has been about the XOX version, following an erroneous Dutch website report. It seemed like a possibility after the FM7 demos. So to answer your question: no, nobody expected 4k/60 on PS Pro, and I don't think anyone ever said that they did.
Click to expand...

I think I was really pointing the comment towards those that keep asking if (insert game title here, Gran Turismo Sport for example) will run in either Native 4K and/or 60 FPS. It happens all the time. Random comments here, though, they have decreased dramatically in frequency.
On topic, yes, I believe that FM7 will run at 4K/60. I'm not sure if requiring 100GB of HDD has anything to do with that other than how the 4K textures are stored most likely, but I'm no expert in how things work for sure.
 
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