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[gofreak]

Well, that would be like building a private road that cuts directly past all of the off-ramps and billboard advertisements. And there are obvious reasons why circumventing that main roadway would not be in interests of the first or third parties. You know that.

I think it would be appalling if platform-holders stymied voice control because they want you to browse slowly through advertisement-laden UIs.

I don't think they will either - the evidence is that MS plans to bring voice control to the dashboard, and I'm sure that'll include the ability to call up a game or whatever directly.

Besides, I think even with voice control, there's room for UI spam if one must - if I say 'Halo 3', I wouldn't expect the system to necessarily boot Halo 3 immediately. What I expect is that it would immediately bring it up in my game list or whatever, but then prompt me for a confirmation to play (be it a voice command or other). While highlighting this game you've called up they could still meet their 'messaging' goals with other ads or whatever. The UI won't disappear, but will be less interface, more purely content and option presentation.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Hmm...I don't think they'll make the voice operation that far-reaching when it comes to the main interface. I think they'll limit it to being inside of an app more than giving out the ability to start that app. I do want direct control, as you describe it, but I'm not hopeful.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I don't think talking to computers is the way of the future. Sure it's cute in Star Trek but the reality is that remotes are more reliable for most of what you want. When you press a button the system knows exactly what you want. It's instant and unmistakable. There are exceptions like when drilling down to specific content but normal actions should be quicker with the press of a button (if not the UI needs work).

 

[gofreak]

I don't think talking to computers is the way of the future. Sure it's cute in Star Trek but the reality is that remotes are more reliable for most of what you want. When you press a button the system knows exactly what you want. It's instant. There are exceptions like when drilling down to specific content but normal actions should be quicker with the press of a button (if not the UI needs work).

That'd be great, except we can't put a button on a controller or remote for every possible bit of content or software you might want to open. So..content isn't really just one button push away.

We are at a point where there's so much content that we have to browse through it with these things in order to find what were looking for.

TVs have tried to address it by indexing channels by number, and having you push a number combination to bring up a channel directly. This is better than browsing, but it also carries the cognitive burden of remembering numbers, and discovering what's mapped to what.

A voice command is, if you like, a button you both create and trigger by simply saying it. IF software can robustly recognise the bit of content or software you are referring to - and this is the supposition my argument's built upon - then it's far superior.

Even if, however, there's some ambiguity with voice...I'd wager than in most motion UIs today (or markerless ones, at least), you have ambiguities and imprecision also, and on a lower level too. And the speed with which something can be brought up or executed once a voice command is recognised means even if you did have to retry a command, it probably would be STILL faster than browsing with a remote or with your hands, and still require less effort.

Also, mighty, about launching applications or software with voice - the rumour was that they were training phrases like 'launch facebook', so I think that will be allowed.

 

[Kafel]

Anyone else thinks that the "Natal" campaign really starts at E3 ?

It's not only about games, MS bets big on this technology for the future. Think about those public informal/ad toushcreens, your PPT presentations, the mo-cap studios, the clinical experiments ...

We've seen some big media using Surface recently but it's shit compared to what Natal can become.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Anyone else thinks that the "Natal" campaign really starts at E3 ?

It has to really. It'll have a name and a face with which to present itself to the world. It appears that Natal has had a pretty big push from Microsft, appearing on the likes of Smallville, Fallon's show and countless news and breakfast shows, but that is nothing compared to how Microsoft is going to push it after E3. They'll want to make sure that everyone in America know that this thing exists and they'll finally have games to show it off with.

The guy who said Natal would benefit hugely from an app store is correct too. The iPhone/pad/touch is being used in ways even Apple probably didn't imagine, and it'd really open the doors to the possibilities of Natal outside of gaming. There are so many ideas that would work great for a small chunk of fun, but can't or won't be fleshed out into a full game. Microsoft needs a way for devs to release those little ideas, those apps, and I don't think XBLA is quite right for that.

 

[gofreak]

Speaking of which, Inaudible, there's an interesting comment from the president of EA games in this article, talking about if after the Wii experience there's third party money to be made in motion control, and Natal specifically:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/12/arts/television/12games.html

But here’s the thing: almost no one besides Nintendo itself has made much money on the Wii (Disney, with its emphasis on kids’ games, is one of the few). And that raises the question of whether Natal and Move will provide much opportunity for outside developers interested in making high-end games.

“Natal games at 60 bucks are probably a stretch,” said Frank Gibeau, president of EA Games, referring to the price of most big-name titles. But he added that the strength and popularity of the Xbox Live service from Microsoft made the prospect of cheaper downloadable games using Natal potentially more attractive.

On the other hand, I wonder how MS feels about that. They'll probably need 'big' games and big retail games to justify making a big deal out of Natal, or more particularly, to justify a price tag that's anything more than cheap 'n cheerful.

 

[FrankT]

It has to really. It'll have a name and a face with which to present itself to the world. It appears that Natal has had a pretty big push from Microsft, appearing on the likes of Smallville, Fallon's show and countless news and breakfast shows, but that is nothing compared to how Microsoft is going to push it after E3. They'll want to make sure that everyone in America know that this thing exists and they'll finally have games to show it off with.

The guy who said Natal would benefit hugely from an app store is correct too. The iPhone/pad/touch is being used in ways even Apple probably didn't imagine, and it'd really open the doors to the possibilities of Natal outside of gaming. There are so many ideas that would work great for a small chunk of fun, but can't or won't be fleshed out into a full game. Microsoft needs a way for devs to release those little ideas, those apps, and I don't think XBLA is quite right for that.

Pretty much this.

 

[derFeef]

It has to really. It'll have a name and a face with which to present itself to the world. It appears that Natal has had a pretty big push from Microsft, appearing on the likes of Smallville, Fallon's show and countless news and breakfast shows, but that is nothing compared to how Microsoft is going to push it after E3. They'll want to make sure that everyone in America know that this thing exists and they'll finally have games to show it off with.

The guy who said Natal would benefit hugely from an app store is correct too. The iPhone/pad/touch is being used in ways even Apple probably didn't imagine, and it'd really open the doors to the possibilities of Natal outside of gaming. There are so many ideas that would work great for a small chunk of fun, but can't or won't be fleshed out into a full game. Microsoft needs a way for devs to release those little ideas, those apps, and I don't think XBLA is quite right for that.

I pretty much expect something like a Game Store for Natal games. If it´s set free for XNA then this means a huge load of fun. Please MS, do this.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

On the other hand, I wonder how MS feels about that. They'll probably need 'big' games and big retail games to justify making a big deal out of Natal, or more particularly, to justify a price tag that's anything more than cheap 'n cheerful.

I think fully priced retail games will always have their place. Microsoft is probably going to continually release them from their first party studios, and the bigger third party studios are going to want to make as much money as possible from any feasible bigger ideas, and hopefully if Natal is a success it'll entice more developers to dive into a bigger budget Natal game.

But if a developer thinks "Hey, human tetris would be awesome on Natal", obviously that idea alone can't carry a $60 price tag, and I don't want their first thought to be "So it should be part of a new Raving Rabbids mini game collection". Just create it, and put it up on the market place for $5-10. But again, I'd much prefer Natal to have it's own place on Xbox Live, and it shouldn't be limited to games.

 

[FrankT]

GAME have got a pre-order countdown on the front page of their site (look on the right): http://www.game.co.uk/

Odd thing is, it's counting down until midnight Saturday BST. Wouldn't they mean they'd be taking pre-orders before the event on Sunday?

Hmm, yea that is like 12:00CST/1:00am EST Sunday in the states. I wonder if they are putting out PR with pricing out at that time. Seems a little weird though. I'm not really expecting prcing details until at least Sunday night at the earliest really, but who knows.

So apparently;

Got this scoop yesterday:

The Project Natal event happening tomorrow in LA will be around an hour and 45 mins compare to the MTV/Nick-At-Nite version which is recorded/edited. This one will last 30 mins long commercial-free.

I hope Microsoft can release the full video in HD on XBL Marketplace for free during E3 for the fans. The Gamertag Radio crew will keep you posted live from E3 2010 stay tuned!

http://www.gamertagradio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=80652

 

[Lime]

The Danish branch of GAME has just priced the Natal as 1300 DKR, which is equivalent to ~210 USD. So if the price isn't subject to change, Natal might get priced around 200 dollars. Which to me seems unbelievable, so I don't know how reliable this information is. Just wanted to suggest some kind of source:

http://www.game.dk/acatalog/NATAL_360_Xbox_360.html

 

[Vinterbird]

The Danish branch of GAME has just priced the Natal as 1300 DKR, which is equivalent to ~210 USD. So if the price isn't subject to change, Natal might get priced around 200 dollars. Which to me seems unbelievable, so I don't know how reliable this information is. Just wanted to suggest some kind of source:

http://www.game.dk/acatalog/NATAL_360_Xbox_360.html

Two important things:

1. It says that the price is not final

2. Danish/Scandinavian prices are always way more then they are in the US, if it really is 1300 here, it will be around 150 dollars in the US. Not 200.

 

[which1spink]

The Danish branch of GAME has just priced the Natal as 1300 DKR, which is equivalent to ~210 USD. So if the price isn't subject to change, Natal might get priced around 200 dollars. Which to me seems unbelievable, so I don't know how reliable this information is. Just wanted to suggest some kind of source:

http://www.game.dk/acatalog/NATAL_360_Xbox_360.html

Placeholder and/or bullshit.

$50 = "OMG so cheap"
$100 = what most people expect
$150 = waaaaay to expensive (not gonna happen)
$200 = no

 

[quickwhips]

I could only see it at that price if it included a xbox 360 with it. God I hope that is wrong.

 

[gofreak]

They're probably just going by the Edge rumour article or something (because 1300 danish kroner would be more like 150 euros and thus 150 dollars, not 210). It does clearly say that final price is to be determined, so I'd say it's just their guess right now.

The more time winds on and the closer we get to E3, with the software tidbits we've been getting, the more inclined I am to believe that that rumour was totally off base.

 

[Vinterbird]

They're probably just going by the Edge rumour article or something (because 1300 danish kroner would be more like 150 euros and thus 150 dollars, not 210). It does clearly say that final price is to be determined, so I'd say it's just their guess right now.

The more time winds on and the closer we get to E3, with the software tidbits we've been getting, the more inclined I am to believe that that rumour was totally off base.

It's based on that when MS had their Scandinavian Natal tour last month, they said it would retail around 1300-1500 Danish Kroner, which has been the base for the retail pricing. But they firmly note in the text, that it is not final price and it will change on the web site.

 

[derFeef]

Only 1 day left on the rare homepage. excited!

 

[gofreak]

So, this story is dated June 13 (i.e. tomorrow). Unfortunately it doesn't let slip any details as such, but it does talk a bit about the production of the cirque performance tomorrow night.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-cirque-20100613,0,5463684.story?page=1

Seems like it's a very big production, as the article says, on the scale of a normal cirque production (and not the normal size of event they put on for private or corporate events). And the performance itself will be 45 minutes long. It begs the question if they'll actually be showing the product? I suppose the hour of 'atmospherics' beforehand will be the opportunity to play it for attendees etc.

It sounds like this is the basis of the concept for the performance:

Laprise started his presentation by dumping a pail full of sand on top the conference table, alarming executives who worried about the wiring embedded in the table for PowerPoint presentations and technology demos. Armed with three rocks, a small wooden elephant and a flashlight, he spent an hour weaving a tale of a boy on a quest to locate meteors that have fallen from the sky and to uncover their meaning.

A cast of 80 performers supported by a crew of more than 100 designers, set builders, engineers and seamstresses meant the performances soaked up as much resources as any of Cirque's permanent shows. The company drove from its Montreal studios 25 semi-trailer trucks packed with equipment, costumes and props — nearly all handmade for Microsoft's event.

Backstage, two crew members tinkered with a 9-foot-tall puppet elephant that had just arrived that morning. It had been built by Michael Curry, the artist who created the puppets for "The Lion King" theater production.

And in the main arena, a small army of set builders were busy gluing carpet on the floor of a 50,000-pound rectangular steel structure the height of a six-story building. Others were busy transforming the giant space into an otherworldly set for an expected audience of 3,000 celebrities, media and hand chosen "influencers." Hung around the sides of the arena and on the ceiling stretched 400 linear feet of projection screens — so much that the company exhausted the supply in North America and had to fly additional screens in from Europe.

More on the concept:

"It's a story about humanity, about a quest and about overcoming obstacles," he said. "In history, there have been discoveries that have made us leap forward as a civilization. But those technologies demanded that we master their language, the language of machines. This time, it's the machine that's adapting. The human is at the center, doing what comes naturally. Moving, jumping, talking. And it's up to the machine to interpret what that means."

The network is betting that the Cirque name will draw in a broad range of viewers, Keighley said, not just game geeks. "It's geared to families and people like my parents," Keighley said. "Normally, no one in those demographics pay attention to E3. But will that translate to sales for Microsoft? The jury is out on that."

 

[Ding]

I was wondering, will we have a separate thread for discussion of tomorrow's dog and pony show, or should we attempt to keep all discussion in this thread?

I suppose the same question goes for all the other Natal bombshells we're bound to encounter in the next few days. I see the potential for a lot of "extra" threads:

* OMG, the official name reveal
* OMG, the pricing announcement
* Lots of game announcements
* Hilarious demo mishaps, and their associated GIFs

It should be fun! I'm getting kinda excited too!

 

[FrankT]

Was just about to post that as it's an interesting read. Especially the parts leading up to the showing. I think we may get pricing tonight with Game saying 8 and half hours to pre-order.

 

[gofreak]

I was wondering, will we have a separate thread for discussion of tomorrow's dog and pony show, or should we attempt to keep all discussion in this thread?

I suppose the same question goes for all the other Natal bombshells we're bound to encounter in the next few days. I see the potential for a lot of "extra" threads:

* OMG, the official name reveal
* OMG, the pricing announcement
* Lots of game announcements
* Hilarious demo mishaps, and their associated GIFs

It should be fun! I'm getting kinda excited too!

Solid new product detail should obviously get a new thread. This should NOT be a catch-all thread for future news and info, but for now there's nothing really new thread-worthy. Anything like an official name and/or price and/or release date should trigger a new thread.

 

[Megadragon15]

Placeholder and/or bullshit.

$50 = "OMG so cheap"
$100 = what most people expect
$150 = 32X'ed
$200 = ADAMed

Fixed

 

[Pooya]

I was wondering, will we have a separate thread for discussion of tomorrow's dog and pony show, or should we attempt to keep all discussion in this thread?

I suppose the same question goes for all the other Natal bombshells we're bound to encounter in the next few days. I see the potential for a lot of "extra" threads:

* OMG, the official name reveal
* OMG, the pricing announcement
* Lots of game announcements
* Hilarious demo mishaps, and their associated GIFs

It should be fun! I'm getting kinda excited too!

new posting guidelines strongly prefers new threads over mega threads like this. this thread is quite old, if there is going to be any leaks tomorrow there will be a thread for that.

 

[gofreak]

Was just about to post that as it's an interesting read. Especially the parts leading up to the showing. I think we may get pricing tonight with Game saying 8 and half hours to pre-order.

Actually, 2 and half hours. Midnight local time is 2 and half hours away, and that's what the countdown shows for me.

But they may not have a price. Or they may have a 'price not final' qualifier. We'll see I guess.

 

[Monty Mole]

Surely the official name will revealed before/at the beginning of the event tomorrow night. Would seem silly not to.

 

[which1spink]

Surely the official name will revealed before/at the beginning of the event tomorrow night. Would seem silly not to.

fixed. What's the point of revealing the name before ... well ... the revealing event?:lol

 

[Reckoner]

Is the Project Natal event tomorrow going to livestream somewhere?

 

[FrankT]

Actually, 2 and half hours. Midnight local time is 2 and half hours away, and that's what the countdown shows for me.

But they may not have a price. Or they may have a 'price not final' qualifier. We'll see I guess.

Ah that's right. I guess we shall see. That would 4PST/7EST here. Anyhow was this mentioned in the other LA times preview the other day;

In addition, there will be about a dozen more Natal-licensed titles from other game developers unveiled Monday and Tuesday, but Microsoft has forbidden the publishers from uttering a word about them until after its own news conference Monday morning.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-microsoft-20100613,0,5750062.story

 

[expy]

The Danish branch of GAME has just priced the Natal as 1300 DKR, which is equivalent to ~210 USD. So if the price isn't subject to change, Natal might get priced around 200 dollars. Which to me seems unbelievable, so I don't know how reliable this information is. Just wanted to suggest some kind of source:

http://www.game.dk/acatalog/NATAL_360_Xbox_360.html

So far it looks like it'll be around $150-200.... Damn

 

[Vinterbird]

So far it looks like it'll be around $150-200.... Damn

Again:

It says, very clearly, that the price is not final.

 

[expy]

Again:

It says, very clearly, that the price is not final.

I read that, but all these "speculative/non-final" prices are coming up to around $150-200 USD. Doubt it's just a coincidence. Probably even more reason why they're trying to hype it up with totally unrelated things like Cirque du Soleil and a live broadcast to Times Square.

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

Microsoft says "Hey, we're treating the release of Natal like the launch of a brand new console."

Cheapest price that a new console has launched at in recent memory = Sega Dreamcast ($199 on 9/9/99)

Just saying. (

Spoiler

I'm still expecting anywhere from $129-149 for the peripheral and $299 for the 250GB Slim.

)

 

[Sydle]

$200 is my threshold. I hope it comes with a slew of pack-ins.

So, this story is dated June 13 (i.e. tomorrow). Unfortunately it doesn't let slip any details as such, but it does talk a bit about the production of the cirque performance tomorrow night.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-cirque-20100613,0,5463684.story?page=1

Seems like it's a very big production, as the article says, on the scale of a normal cirque production (and not the normal size of event they put on for private or corporate events). And the performance itself will be 45 minutes long. It begs the question if they'll actually be showing the product? I suppose the hour of 'atmospherics' beforehand will be the opportunity to play it for attendees etc.

It sounds like this is the basis of the concept for the performance:







More on the concept:

Wow. I can't wait to see it. Very curious how they will weave in Wave.

 

[gerg]

Again:

It says, very clearly, that the price is not final.

Indeed.

I think there was a Euro pre-order price that was equivalent to $100.

 

[lord pie]

What time is the presentation tomorrow?

 

[gofreak]

What time is the presentation tomorrow?

There's no presentation per se. There's a private launch party at 7pm PST (I think?). We might get leaks from that. MS's press conference is Monday morning.

 

[Ding]

I read that, but all these "speculative/non-final" prices are coming up to around $150-200 USD. Doubt it's just a coincidence. Probably even more reason why they're trying to hype it up with totally unrelated things like Cirque du Soleil and a live broadcast to Times Square.

I speculate that the price will be $69 if we're lucky, $79 if we're not.

$99 means MS isn't really serious about making this ubiquitous, and doesn't mind if their user base fragments.

Anything above $99 means that Natal is being sent to die. That would make me sad. And surprised. And then sad again.

 

[CadetMahoney]

So far it looks like it'll be around $150-200.... Damn

I think it will be around that. Didn't they remove the chip to make it cheaper to produce too? hmmm. . . $100 is what they need. They'll probably bundle something with it.

 

[Kilrogg]

Indeed.

I think there was a Euro pre-order price that was equivalent to $100.

That's what I'm expecting honestly. Maybe with a game. $70-80 at best without any games.

 

[itsgreen]

There is a basic rule for the price...

Imagine what would be the maximum reasonable price you are willing to pay... for instance 99$ with a game bundled.

Now add 30%. And there you have it... 129$

This works every time. Every console.

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

There will be numerous debates over Natal/Wave pricing that will inevitably lead nowhere and be pointless until we see how the market responds to it later this fall.

The big defense argument people will serve up is that Natal/Wave is all you need and you don't need additional WiiMote/MoveWand, Nunchuk, MotionPlus, EyeToy peripherals to enjoy it.

Little charts will be drawn up showing how Natal/Wave is a bargain considering that for 4 people to enjoy base motion control on a competing product they will pay an equivalent price or more and still not benefit from the additional functionality of facial/voice recognition and depth perception.

The above is understood. Will we see roughly 1,000 posts on GAF over the next 72 hours discussing the price despite the above? Sure. It was virtually guaranteed so long as Natal is released at anything above $50.

 

[Sydle]

Speaking of which, Inaudible, there's an interesting comment from the president of EA games in this article, talking about if after the Wii experience there's third party money to be made in motion control, and Natal specifically:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/12/arts/television/12games.html



On the other hand, I wonder how MS feels about that. They'll probably need 'big' games and big retail games to justify making a big deal out of Natal, or more particularly, to justify a price tag that's anything more than cheap 'n cheerful.

Nah, it's all about the experience. If they show a few unique apps that people haven't experienced before (and they look fun) then they'll be good to go.

I think Live Arcade is a great platform to deliver bite-sized gaming that seems to be a hit with the Wii and iPhone/Droid crowds.

 

[Kilrogg]

There is a basic rule for the price...

Imagine what would be the maximum reasonable price you are willing to pay... for instance 99$ with a game bundled.

Now add 30%. And there you have it... 129$

This works every time. Every console.

Damn, so the 3DS will cost $260+?

 

[Dabanton]

One of the other things that will come into play is what else will this thing do? Obviously all we as gamers have seen is Ricochet which seems to have painted a certain image of natal into certain people's heads i.e that it's a 'shovelware' peripheral.

I'm expecting many a change of heart about Natal come monday,going into this E3 MS seems to be ready and eager to show this thing off like they know they have a winner.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

There will be numerous debates over Natal/Wave pricing that will inevitably lead nowhere and be pointless until we see how the market responds to it later this fall.

The big defense argument people will serve up is that Natal/Wave is all you need and you don't need additional WiiMote/MoveWand, Nunchuk, MotionPlus, EyeToy peripherals to enjoy it.

Little charts will be drawn up showing how Natal/Wave is a bargain considering that for 4 people to enjoy base motion control on a competing product they will pay an equivalent price or more and still not benefit from the additional functionality of facial/voice recognition and depth perception.

The above is understood. Will we see roughly 1,000 posts on GAF over the next 72 hours discussing the price despite the above? Sure. It was virtually guaranteed so long as Natal is released at anything above $50.

:lol

Man, this is spot the hell on.

 

[bathala]

This is a big event with cirque and all, but has there been any ad on tv for the casuals

 

[expy]

One of the other things that will come into play is what else will this thing do? Obviously all we as gamers have seen is Ricochet which seems to have painted a certain image of natal into certain people's heads i.e that it's a 'shovelware' peripheral.

I'm expecting many a change of heart about Natal come monday,going into this E3 MS seems to be ready and eager to show this thing off like they know they have a winner.

Not anything too complicated I'm imagining. There is only so much that the camera's the on-board computing algorithms can do to "estimate" the player's movement, it'll be limited to how it interprets the players actions in 3D space, as opposed to tangible feedback from gyros etc.

I'm betting on some Natal/Wave + 360 controller games, which will be a little weird considering you'll need both your hands to hold the controller, leaving only your legs and head free to gesture around (also body positioning). That Natal/wave + 360 controller combo will allow for precise controls in more "hardcore" games, as opposed to the very loose estimated controls of just the camera.

 

[derFeef]

This is a big event with cirque and all, but has there been any ad on tv for the casuals

That may be too soon yet.

 

[Ding]

This is a big event with cirque and all, but has there been any ad on tv for the casuals

It's too soon for that. Assuming a holiday release, the big advertising guns will come out in Oct/Nov.