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Project Spark Information Q&A
- Thread starter nbraun80
- Start date
There's something screwy about the Project Spark Twitch page this past couple of weeks. Live streams are always choppy and archived videos are always choppy AND crank my CPU usage up to 100%. No other Twitch page does this. It's annoying having to wait half a day for a watchable YouTube version of a new stream.
Did you maybe try wathing it on different explorer?
BTW, people, what are your opinion on the whole sharing aspect the developers are aiming for? I understand that time in the beta will tell whether this is a good concept, and the developers themselves are apparently open for change if the reactions go in that direction. But just at the theoretical stage, I can only state that making levels copy-paste free definitely didn’t work in LBP. For example, I intentionally wanted to make my level open in order for people to transparently see the level under the hub, but it resulted in copy-pasteing of the same level. No changes were done, people just posted same stuff again and again. For this system to work I think it would need to have some kind of branching hierarchical presentation. i.e. all remixed levels are represented under the main level, and all the statistical stuff that goes in the mixed levels is also accounted in the original level. Because otherwise people will, sadly, just ruin this system.
BTW, people, what are your opinion on the whole sharing aspect the developers are aiming for? I understand that time in the beta will tell whether this is a good concept, and the developers themselves are apparently open for change if the reactions go in that direction. But just at the theoretical stage, I can only state that making levels copy-paste free definitely didn’t work in LBP. For example, I intentionally wanted to make my level open in order for people to transparently see the level under the hub, but it resulted in copy-pasteing of the same level. No changes were done, people just posted same stuff again and again. For this system to work I think it would need to have some kind of branching hierarchical presentation. i.e. all remixed levels are represented under the main level, and all the statistical stuff that goes in the mixed levels is also accounted in the original level. Because otherwise people will, sadly, just ruin this system.
Mike and Henry have stated repeatedly in the live streams that all creators are publicly and appropriately credited. You cannot copy/paste someone's work without them getting credited as the original author. Whatever changes you do make to someone's work is weighed appropriately against the original work; you don't get equal credit for changing one object or a single line of code in someone's creation - the lion's share of the credit still goes to the original author in a case like that.
If you're going to go through the hassle of anonymously jacking someone's work you're gonna have to recreate it from scratch, at which point you would just be learning how to do it yourself anyway.
If someone wants to remix something you made to make it easier to win, the integrity of your game is still preserved because they will not be getting get a high score on your leaderboards, their high score would be posted on their own separate remixed version's leaderboards. And in their remixed version, again you would still be listed as the original author. I have a feeling that if your game is actually good, people are naturally going to tend to want to experience the purity of the original creation in most cases anyway.
They've also hinted that there will be a larger point to publicly crediting creators beyond the credit itself.
If you're going to go through the hassle of anonymously jacking someone's work you're gonna have to recreate it from scratch, at which point you would just be learning how to do it yourself anyway.
If someone wants to remix something you made to make it easier to win, the integrity of your game is still preserved because they will not be getting get a high score on your leaderboards, their high score would be posted on their own separate remixed version's leaderboards. And in their remixed version, again you would still be listed as the original author. I have a feeling that if your game is actually good, people are naturally going to tend to want to experience the purity of the original creation in most cases anyway.
They've also hinted that there will be a larger point to publicly crediting creators beyond the credit itself.
Omnistalgic
Member
interesting concept...have to wait and see what MM does in comparison, plan on being a creator this time around and want to sink down into only one user-generated focus game for a while.
Very nice variety being shown from next-gen so far.
Very nice variety being shown from next-gen so far.
That's true, copy-pasters will probably not be credited as the original authors, but there is also danger of generating an enormous amount of spam. To be honest, I am really interested to see how this concept will go, although I am wary of how people will abuse it. I just hope Team Dakota has created a good search engine with lots of variables which help you filtering the right levels you want to play.
I am also interested in MM's concept, but their game will be out at soonest in November next year. I don't see why not start with Project Spark, even more taking into account that beta for this game is practically here.
Media Molecules game will probably be great, but I am what finding really interesting with Project Spark is time-saving approach. But I am thankful we will have both games.
Although it would be cool to know what pushed Microsoft to approve Project Spark concept. Was it the success of Minecraft or LBP or neither.
Awesome, gonna watch it right now!
Dead Prince
Banned
beta must have been moved or it secretly went out.
Trust me, I'd make sure you guys would get your beta keys. I got the list right here ;P
Anyway, they said in a few streams ago that they had to push the beta back to November. Just now in the stream they said they have "320" bugs left on the bug list. Should definitely be out by the end of this month though.
Dead Prince
Banned
oh okay. i always miss the stream so i have a bunch of archives to watch lol. thanks.
https://twitter.com/Saxs
Looks like it is close! Still would have to go through a week of cert testing, but it is very close I think.
Also, are we gonna make a new thread called "Beta Impressions" or maybe we could get the title of this thread changed once it drops?
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
New thread.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Sweet!
Mike_Lescault
Neo Member
Lucent
Member
Beta is imminent.
Believe
Beta is imminent.
various parts of my anatomy are hard
Lucent
Member
Happy noodle...
Miles Quaritch
Member
There was an hour long talk at this years GDC Next...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK6hD24RA9U
Some pretty good info in the vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK6hD24RA9U
Some pretty good info in the vid.
Thanks for the laugh!
Lucent
Member
Saw that, but kind of doozed of after some time.
Will try to watch it again. Didn't know new info was given. BTW, will there be a stream today also?Just been catching up on streams, still looking great, can't wait for the beta.
So beta is right around the corner, do you want to make the Beta Impressions thread?
The last stream is now up on Youtube (World Wizard and Default Brains): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwrmYSCM2FE
Btw am I correct that the next live stream starts in an hour on the Microsoft Studios Twitch page? Time converting somehow confuses me a lot
Edit: Looks like I was correct, stream is starting in 10 minutes
Btw am I correct that the next live stream starts in an hour on the Microsoft Studios Twitch page? Time converting somehow confuses me a lot
Edit: Looks like I was correct, stream is starting in 10 minutes
Mike_Lescault
Neo Member
Video from today's stream. We ran 'e' through the new user tutorial to see how quickly someone new to the game could start creating. He made a tower defense game like a pro.
http://t.co/iHt5vRfDt0
http://t.co/iHt5vRfDt0
Video from today's stream. We ran 'e' through the new user tutorial to see how quickly someone new to the game could start creating. He made a tower defense game like a pro.
http://t.co/iHt5vRfDt0
Moar tease!. Need beta now.
http://www.twitch.tv/project_spark/
You probably don't wanna miss this one. They're doing leveling and progression systems.
You probably don't wanna miss this one. They're doing leveling and progression systems.
Sathsquatch
Member
Mike just said the beta was submitted for certification today. Usually takes 7-10 business days to pass, assuming everything goes without a hitch. They've been discussing leveling and progression for Project Spark itself, not designing your own. The game rewards players with additional assets for creation the more they play and create, with milestones achieved, design specializations, daily creation goals. You have the option of bypassing all of it by purchasing the content you want straight away.
The build they're showing off looks far more advanced than what they've been showing the past few months.
The build they're showing off looks far more advanced than what they've been showing the past few months.
There's one piece of info from the stream I found a little troubling. So you can unlock or buy creation assets. Totally cool. But what if you're trying to play or remix a game made with assets you have neither bought nor unlocked?
Remixing games containing assets that you don't own is not possible. That makes sense. Playing content you don't own is slightly more complicated.
Players are granted 20 minutes a day of "Spark Time" which allows them to play games that contain assets that they have neither unlocked nor purchased. And if I understood it correctly, if you want to play said game for longer than 20 minutes you can either spend time away from that game in create modes to unlock those assets, you can outright purchase the assets, or you can purchase more Spark Time.
So, as a creator, if I pay for or unlock all the assets I need for my creation, which I am totally willing to do, I might have to also convince other people to buy those assets to experience my game for more than 20 minutes. I think this would be a fairly easy sell for people already buying into the Project Spark ecosystem - those people are likely creators too and will probably want some of that stuff for themselves anyway. But my game is a tougher sell to anybody outside of that ecosystem, and my game is likely reduced to a timed demo. That makes investing time and money into extended projects a little less inviting.
Having to actually "sell" content for Team Dakota so others can play my game was not something I was expecting to have to do.
Remixing games containing assets that you don't own is not possible. That makes sense. Playing content you don't own is slightly more complicated.
Players are granted 20 minutes a day of "Spark Time" which allows them to play games that contain assets that they have neither unlocked nor purchased. And if I understood it correctly, if you want to play said game for longer than 20 minutes you can either spend time away from that game in create modes to unlock those assets, you can outright purchase the assets, or you can purchase more Spark Time.
So, as a creator, if I pay for or unlock all the assets I need for my creation, which I am totally willing to do, I might have to also convince other people to buy those assets to experience my game for more than 20 minutes. I think this would be a fairly easy sell for people already buying into the Project Spark ecosystem - those people are likely creators too and will probably want some of that stuff for themselves anyway. But my game is a tougher sell to anybody outside of that ecosystem, and my game is likely reduced to a timed demo. That makes investing time and money into extended projects a little less inviting.
Having to actually "sell" content for Team Dakota so others can play my game was not something I was expecting to have to do.
This is totally disapointing. This system only encourages me to create games using the most barebone assets, which do not require any timed nonsensr. LBP did this much, much better. I understand restricting content for creators and re-mixers, but restricting it also for players makes absolutley no sense.
This is by far the worst information I have heared about this game. :/
Yeah, I haven't really disliked any of their decisions except for this one. There seems to be a lot of items and content packs that are available to buy, and I feel like this will heavily split the community and the player base. Sure, you can play these levels and earn credits and buy the packs (I like this idea though personally, the earning credits through playing) but then you have to worry about only having twenty minutes a day to other levels. Run out of play time in the day and then you earn credits just buy going in and creating your own level but with the most bare bones prop/material/character set. The prestige items are kind of weird to me, too. Not sure how I feel about them yet.
I am still super excited to play, and I think that being how open and interactive Team Dakota is, these issues will be addressed.
I am still super excited to play, and I think that being how open and interactive Team Dakota is, these issues will be addressed.
Yeah, it's not a deal breaker for me or anything. I know they gotta get paid somehow and I'm totally willing to spend money on content packs if the leveling system ends up being too much of a grind. I'd love it if there were some kind of subscription model, season pass, or something that allowed me to buy stuff in huge bundles. The main issue though is that the restricted playtime seems like it would limit the audience. Are non creators gonna buy more playtime, be it an extra day or a whole month? My gut says no, even if the games are good.
This is the main problem with this system.
I have no problem with them making money ala f2p style, but this specific system is just wrong for this type of game.
As a creator this just further motivates me not to buy additional stuff, because I want to make my levels available to biggest amount of people. Getting your levels played is a hard task in itself and now making it so that you have to fight with others for that specific minute slot is just absurd.
This system does not promote buying new content for level creation. I will be wary of every content that should be bought, not because I don't want to buy it (I was more than ready to throw money at this game), but because I don't want to limit my potential player base to a small percentage. What's the point? I spend money in order to make my levels playable to fewer players. Not a great incentive. I just can't believe how bad this decision is.
Garrett 2U
Member
I was hoping that play wouldn't require the paid content :/
I know as someone who plans to create, I want as many people as possible to be able to play what I make, so I'll probably be sticking to base pieces as much as possible.
Nonetheless, stream was very entertaining! Probably the best one yet. It's great to see this game all come together
I know as someone who plans to create, I want as many people as possible to be able to play what I make, so I'll probably be sticking to base pieces as much as possible.
Nonetheless, stream was very entertaining! Probably the best one yet. It's great to see this game all come together
TharpDaddy
Member
This is the main problem with this system.
This system does not promote buying new content for level creation. I will be wary of every content that should be bought, not because I don't want to buy it (I was more than ready to throw money at this game), but because I don't want to limit my potential player base to a small percentage. What's the point? I spend money in order to make my levels playable to fewer players. Not a great incentive. I just can't believe how bad this decision is.
I feel the same way. I was looking forward to buying packs so i could expand the stuff i create, but instead every pack i buy will just limit more and more what i'm able to share. They should make it so you can play maps with packs you don't have, but can't do any sort of creation without them. People would play a game with a pack they don't have, and then it would spark their interest to create something of their own with it, and they would have incentive to buy it. As it stands now i would likely not buy a pack even if i wanted because it would mean my friends who are less willing to buy stuff wouldn't be able to play anything i created.
I don't believe this fantasy scenario makes money either. What's more likely is players will walk away happy that they got to play a free game and go look for more free games. The group of players who would even consider diving in deep enough to want to spend time and money on acquiring creation assets is probably really, really small. This game is fighting for mindshare against giants like CoD, Battlefield, Madden, FIFA, GTA, Dota, LoL, Pokemon - all huge time sinks. It's a huge challenge.
And can you imagine if the first 5-10 minutes of your game is a cutscene and a tutorial? Then there's that internal dialogue of whether a creator needs to scale back the ambition of their project just to save players a few precious minutes of demo time. Then it's like I gotta figure out how to explain this game in ten seconds or less AND hope someone thinks it awesome enough to pay for more playtime. And I keep thinking about that report that said game demos hurt game sales.