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PS3 Firmware 1.80 Announced (PSX/PS2/DVD Upscaling, DNLA streaming, BLU-RAY 720p!!!!)

C

Chrono

Banned
CurseoftheGods said:
Is my unit retarded? It does not reset the RGB settings after playing a DVD movie or a PS2/1 game. :lol
Click to expand...

RGB setting will still point to full even though it reverted back to limited. Just switch to limited and see if you spot a difference, there won't be any. Go back to full and then it actually will be set to full range.

I hope sony fixes this soon, the blacks looks so much better on my monitor with full range that I don't want to play PS2 games in my backlog until I can use it with them. I was planning to replay DMC3 with this update. :'(
 
G

garrickk

Member
andrewfee said:
If your display is capable of accepting both Full range, and Limited range RGB, there should be virtually no difference in appearance between the two if it has been calibrated properly.

The only difference is that with Full RGB there are 255 possible steps of brightness in an image versus 219 steps of brightness in limited RGB, so you might see smoother gradients as a result.
Click to expand...
Yes, but if you are trying to make "16" black, and your crappy LCD really wanted "0" to be black, and you have to drop a lot of settings to make it so, don't you think you're going to lose out on brightness on the high end?

I know you think you should always be able to "stretch" 16-235 into 0-255 steps (interpolated) that the TV will show, but that doesn't always work. It wouldn't work for me. I couldn't get a "16" before appear very dark on my TV before without losing too much brightness. Not all TV's calibrate easily. It's damn easy now to get the most out of my TV. Saying that you only get more steps this way is nonsense - for some TVs.
 
L

Lettuce

Member
Quality!!! With the RGB feature set to full i no longer get the ghosting effect i was experiencing before! Where i could see the faint image of the preveous screen, for instance a licence screen which had white text on a black screen, when it switched to the next screen i could always still see the text very faintly, but no more thanks to this RGB setting!!
Is there any other new settings that have appeared that will increase the display image quality, whats the option under the RGB setting, something about super white display?
 
6

65536

Banned
garrickk said:
Yes, but if you are trying to make "16" black, and your crappy LCD really wanted "0" to be black, and you have to drop a lot of settings to make it so, don't you think you're going to lose out on brightness on the high end?

I know you think you should always be able to "stretch" 16-235 into 0-255 steps (interpolated) that the TV will show, but that doesn't always work. It wouldn't work for me. I couldn't get a "16" before appear very dark on my TV before without losing too much brightness. Not all TV's calibrate easily. It's damn easy now to get the most out of my TV. Saying that you only get more steps this way is nonsense - for some TVs.
Click to expand...
If the TV is capable of accepting both Video and PC levels, such as a Pioneer plasma (as someone here mentioned) it will automatically switch between using 0 as black or 16 as black.

If your display wants 0 to be black, you set it to full RGB.
If your display wants 16 to be black (as most televisions do) you set it to limited.

You choose whichever your TV is expecting, the way to test for it is to set it to full, load up this image and if it's pure black, your TV wants Limited. If you can see all the boxes, it should be set to Full.
 
C

CurseoftheGods

Banned
Chrono said:
RGB setting will still point to full even though it reverted back to limited. Just switch to limited and see if you spot a difference, there won't be any. Go back to full and then it actually will be set to full range.

I hope sony fixes this soon, the blacks looks so much better on my monitor with full range that I don't want to play PS2 games in my backlog until I can use it with them. I was planning to replay DMC3 with this update. :'(
Click to expand...

Damn. You're right. This sucks. :mad:
 
6

65536

Banned
If it's reverting to limited, you could always just stick to limited, and calibrate your brightness setting for that until they fix it.

When brightness is set properly, blacks should be identical - it's just that brightness will be at a much lower setting to achieve the same look.

Set it to limited, load up the brightness image, and turn down brightness until the first box on the top row just disappears. Turn it back up a notch until you can very faintly see it, ans blacks should be just as dark as they were before. (assuming you had brightness properly set for the full range, and weren't just clipping shadow details)
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
andrewfee said:
That's not correct at all, if you do that you will be killing the shadow details on your display.

You should be using this image to set your brightness control regardless of whether you are using the limited or full setting, and should ideally be able to see all 12 boxes no matter whether you're using limited or full.

Limited/Full RGB is not the same as toggling whether or not to display "blacker than black" which you seem to be misinterpreting it as being. It is changing the scale from black to white.

PC levels, or Full RGB, uses a scale of 0-255 for pure black to pure white.

Video levels, of "Limited" RGB uses a scale of 16-235 for pure black to pure white, with everything below 16 being pure black, and everything above 235 being pure white.

It's easier to explain with the lower half of the image, which has boxes in 1% steps. So the first box is 1% grey, or "1% brighter than black" the second is "2% brighter than black" and so on.

When using PC levels, it means the PS3 outputs black as 0,0,0. 1% grey as 3,3,3. 2% grey as 5,5,5 etc.

When using video levels, or "Limited RGB" the PS3 outputs that picture with black being 16,16,16. 1% grey is then 18,18,18. 2% grey would be 20,20,20. (these numbers may not be 100% accurate, as I'm just doing it in my head)


If your display is capable of accepting both Full range, and Limited range RGB, there should be virtually no difference in appearance between the two if it has been calibrated properly.

The only difference is that with Full RGB there are 255 possible steps of brightness in an image versus 219 steps of brightness in limited RGB, so you might see smoother gradients as a result.

RGB values are not absolute, you should think of them as percentages, or relative values.
Click to expand...
Um, you didn't need to lecture me there as I already covered most of that in a previous post. And I most certainly did not describe the option of Limited->Full as 'toggling blacker than black'. Or at least that was not my intention if it came off that way. The point I was making was that given the RGB value of the lower right bar is 16,16,16 it should appear as pure black in the signal when the PS3 is set to limited RGB. As a video signal, everything else being pushed out by the PS3 should now represent blacker than black. So it becomes less useful as a tool for adjusting the brightness/contrast settings for a limited RGB signal, and that's why I created another one which takes the base characteristics of the pluge test. In my mind, when a device is saying 16 is black, I expect to make sure my TV is treating that as pure black and working from there. The TV has a range of what's black and white and it's my job to match up that window I can create with brightness/contrast to the properties of the signal my device is sending. Use one image with 0,0,0 as black for adjusting the brightness of a Full RGB signal, use another image with 16,16,16, as black for adjusting the brightness of a limited RGB signal.

My intention with the 'limited' image was to do a quick dirty emulate of a pluge test that is commonly used for limited range video. It isn't an entirely useful image I admit that, it really needs a blacker than black bar, but that's because I made it after being up for over 40 hours and it was a 2 second photoshop change. :/

Am I missing something here? I'm like really tired, so I'll put my hands up in error if this is something blatantly obvious I'm not getting.
 
6

65536

Banned
Mmmkay said:
Am I missing something here? I'm like really tired, so I'll put my hands up in error if this is something blatantly obvious I'm not getting.
Click to expand...
You are. As I said, RGB numbers are not absolute values.

Don't think of that box as being 16,16,16 think of it as being 6% grey. (ok, it's technically 6.3%)

6% grey on a scale of 0-255, Full RGB, is 16,16,16.
6% grey on a scale of 16-235, Limited RGB, is 30,30,30.

While the information is stored as 16,16,16 RGB in that file, when the PS3 is set to Limited RGB it gets output as 30,30,30.

None of those boxes are "below black" when it's set to Limited RGB.
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
andrewfee said:
You are. As I said, RGB numbers are not absolute values.

Don't think of that box as being 16,16,16 think of it as being 6% grey. (ok, it's technically 6.3%)

6% grey on a scale of 0-255, Full RGB, is 16,16,16.
6% grey on a scale of 16-235, Limited RGB, is 30,30,30.

While the information is stored as 16,16,16 RGB in that file, when the PS3 is set to Limited RGB it gets output as 30,30,30.

None of those boxes are "below black" when it's set to Limited RGB.
Click to expand...
I am a ****ing idiot who is clearly in need of sleep. Thank you for having the patience to clear that up for me, sorry it took so long.
 
F

Fatghost

Gas Guzzler
Hopefully in the next FW update they'll fix whatever is causing us to have to keep enabling full HDMI. Because full HDMI looks amazing. :D
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Wow . . . I just watched an animated DVD and the upscaling is great. Sony really improved their product a lot . . . but too bad it won't show.
 
C

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
Ironically, this is exactly why Sony will not sell in the numbers the Wii is, do you see the average joe schmoe figuring out things like upscaling and 1080p and firmware and component cables?

Until the HDTV experience is simplified, mass market penetration will simply not happen for consoles that emphasize it as a main feature.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
SRG01 said:
I can't believe you're even trying to defend Kotaku. I mean, really.
Click to expand...


I'm not trying to defend shit. I'm saying that sending productive suggestions > sending angry emails. Really.
 
6

65536

Banned
Mmmkay said:
I am a ****ing idiot who is clearly in need of sleep. Thank you for having the patience to clear that up for me, sorry it took so long.
Click to expand...
No problem. :) You meant well anyway, it's just that using your images would basically be killing off any detail below 6% grey. (which would be almost the same thing as using full on a display that doesn't support it) I didn't do a very good job explaining it clearly the first time anyway.

speculawyer said:
Wow . . . I just watched an animated DVD and the upscaling is great. Sony really improved their product a lot . . . but too bad it won't show.
Click to expand...
Animated stuff is where Sony is doing a particularly good job now - far better than the vast majority of cheaper upscaling DVD players. (I believe anything Faroudja based really only does well with 2:2 and 3:2 content, and not much else) I was amazed when it passed all the animation tests on the HQV benchmark disc.
 
B

BojTrek

Banned
I just walked in the door with a brand-new PS3... I sold my PSP and used that cash toward the PS3...

I also had some Best Buy gift cards... so the PS3 is now mine and this is the first thing I do... I post on the board... going to clean up the TV/Game area and hook it up...

I will download the patch ASAP.
 
B

B.K.

Member
BojTrek said:
I just walked in the door with a brand-new PS3... I sold my PSP and used that cash toward the PS3...
Click to expand...

I'm considering buying one off oe Ebay. There are some on there for $499. I'm just concerned about not being able to get an extended warranty so I can take it back to a store if I need to. I haven't heard much about PS3 death rates.
 
J

JoJo13

Banned
Fatghost said:
Hopefully in the next FW update they'll fix whatever is causing us to have to keep enabling full HDMI. Because full HDMI looks amazing. :D
Click to expand...
Seems your PS3 is broken then, as I'm glad my PS3 is full HDMI always now. :D
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
B.K. said:
I'm considering buying one off oe Ebay. There are some on there for $499. I'm just concerned about not being able to get an extended warranty so I can take it back to a store if I need to. I haven't heard much about PS3 death rates.
Click to expand...

That's because they've been extremely low ... at least so far.
 
S

ScissorHands

Member
Just bought a PS3 yesterday (pretty awesome so far), but I'm having problems with the PS/PS2 Upscaling. It's on, but none of the games that I've tried so far (SotC, GoW, DQVIII) cover the whole screen. Is it a problem with the PS3 settings or my HDTV? It's currently at 1080i btw.
 
B

BojTrek

Banned
I am currently downloading the patch... I am happy with my gaming setup in the basement...

54k2x55.jpg


6blvjuf.jpg
 
M

Mifune

Mehmber
For some reason, post-update my 1080p Samsung LCD loses the HD signal when I try to play a BR movie. Games play fine but as soon as the blu-ray disc loads, I get "No Signal Found." I had no problems before this update.

Can anyone help? Or has this been answered a million times already.

EDIT: Figured it out...
 
F

FormulaOne

Member
andrewfee said:
You choose whichever your TV is expecting, the way to test for it is to set it to full, load up this image and if it's pure black, your TV wants Limited. If you can see all the boxes, it should be set to Full.
Click to expand...

Quick question, what do you mean by "If you can see all the boxes"? Do you mean that if you turn up the brightness and can see all the boxes your LCD supports the full RGB range or do you mean that if you can see all the boxes at your current brightness settings?
 
6

65536

Banned
FormulaOne said:
Quick question, what do you mean by "If you can see all the boxes"? Do you mean that if you turn up the brightness and can see all the boxes your LCD supports the full RGB range or do you mean that if you can see all the boxes at your current brightness settings?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I meant to say if you can turn up the brightness and see all the boxes. (if your brightness is set too low, that will also hide them)
 
womfalcs3

womfalcs3

Banned
ScissorHands said:
Just bought a PS3 yesterday (pretty awesome so far), but I'm having problems with the PS/PS2 Upscaling. It's on, but none of the games that I've tried so far (SotC, GoW, DQVIII) cover the whole screen. Is it a problem with the PS3 settings or my HDTV? It's currently at 1080i btw.
Click to expand...

Try setting it on "Full screen" rather than "Normal". See if it works.
 
A

ant1532

Banned
Does Okami support widescreen? I set it to upscale in full screen and then started Okami up but the only option I could find was LCD TV and I played some and it looks pretty damn nice looking, I'm thinking by LCD setting they mean widescreen..
 
B

BuddyC

Member
ant1532 said:
Does Okami support widescreen? I set it to upscale in full screen and then started Okami up but the only option I could find was LCD TV and I played some and it looks pretty damn nice looking, I'm thinking by LCD setting they mean widescreen..
Click to expand...
Okami doesn't support widescreen, no. I think LCD TV plays with the game's internal brightness settings...or something.
 
B

BuddyC

Member
ScissorHands said:
It was on Full Screen when I made that post :(.
Click to expand...
To reference your original post, it's not a problem with anything--it's just the way things are.

PS2 games only supported widescreen by squishing the picture and having your set stretch it out or through progressive scan. On my set, only games set to progressive scan come close to filling out the entire screen, and even then there's a slight border.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
BojTrek said:
I am currently downloading the patch... I am happy with my gaming setup in the basement...

54k2x55.jpg


6blvjuf.jpg
Click to expand...

For a guy that drops 2 large at casinos and 800 on Darth Vader costumes... you have a pretty humble gaming setup.
 
R

rager

Banned
I am thinking of getting a second PS3 for my theater room. My current PS3 is in the bedroom where my 55 inch HDTV is.

I want to use the second PS3 just for movies and media (and more gaming, of course). :D
 
A

ant1532

Banned
BuddyC said:
Okami doesn't support widescreen, no. I think LCD TV plays with the game's internal brightness settings...or something.
Click to expand...
Ah, ok... THanks. THing is it looked DAMN GOOD in full screen so I wonder how good it's going to look when not stretched!
 
T

Tiduz

Eurogaime
my set is horrible with non progressive scan ps2 games, (on a ps2 with component cables) it stretches (which i dont mind) but i get horrible artifact thingy's, even turning down sharpness wont help, luckily i have my ps3 now, which makes it look better then the original PS2 :lol
 
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