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[KtSlime]

Hacking brings to hacked games, which brings to cheating in online games.

Pretty big reason not to get it hacked.

Building a game console brings hacking, hacking brings to hacked games, which brings to cheating in online games...

When will it end?

Hacking is a very small problem, and does not mean that it will lead to piracy, or game code manipulation.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

So I have to ask...why is it more important to have XMBCPS3 than it is to have a secure system for devs?

If your answer is you don't really care as an individual about software corps, that software can still sell despite piracy, and that it will happen eventually, then fine. Those are answers. To say that hacking won't lead to piracy eventually is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around.

Not all hackers are pirates, of course. But the few that are have the potential to wreck a decent number of sales on the PS3 including mine.

So...why is it so important to hack the PS3 again, Dragona?

Because it's my hardware, and I want to hack it to improve its functionality such as media and bluray playback. I'd like to play my Japanese/EU PS2 games without having to use another piece of hardware. etc. etc.

It isn't my job nor in my personal interests as a consumer whether others use tools such as hacks for piracy. I do find it morally repugnant and I buy my media, and as an admin on gaf will happily ban those who think that they can cheat the system by getting "free" games.

It's just as selfish a reason as people saying they don't care about OtherOS. I do: I use it as a wordprocessor and for internet when I don't have access to my macbook pro.

But if they didn't get it done with 3 years on legit Linux why should anyone expect it?

Unfettered access to the hardware via hacks, for one.

 

[chubigans]

Because it's my hardware, and I want to hack it to improve its functionality such as media and bluray playback. I'd like to play my Japanese/EU PS2 games without having to use another piece of hardware. etc. etc.

It isn't my job nor in my personal interests as a consumer whether others use tools such as hacks for piracy. I do find it morally repugnant and I buy my media, and as an admin on gaf will happily ban those who think that they can cheat the system by getting "free" games.

It's just as selfish a reason as people saying they don't care about OtherOS. I do: I use it as a wordprocessor and for internet when I don't have access to my macbook pro.

Well I disagree with some of what you said, but I'm really glad you don't have the piracy mentality of what I mentioned before. We'll just agree to disagree.

By the way, you should really check your PM box more often.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Totally different issues. If company A screws a consumer and no one complains, then company B see this and screws the consumer in the exact same way but now they complain, then that is stupid on the consumers part for not complaining in the first place. I can understand why company B screwed the consumer and thought they could get away with it because company A has been screwing them for years with a smile on their face.

Here, consumers are getting screwed for the first time and complaining about it like they should be. If no one complained and they did this same thing with the PS4 the first question would be... why didn't you care the first time they did it?

different issues, same illogical corporate defending mentality from crazy consumers

 

[The Faceless Master]

Go to China. Companies may see their Intellectual Property rights "compromised".

An employee from my friend's company stole the source and set up a competing company. They tried to go to court but ha ha... IP laws were not that clear cut there. This is like 5 years back.

He's not the only one.

so he wasn't as good at business as the guy who stole the source?

 

[patsu]

Explain to me how you could arrive at that conclusion from an IP theft ? You only have one, two lines of info, and you are trying to make a blind guess at the whole story, including the relative capability of the victims ?

 

[Mudkips]

Because it's my hardware, and I want to hack it to improve its functionality such as media and bluray playback. I'd like to play my Japanese/EU PS2 games without having to use another piece of hardware. etc. etc.

It isn't my job nor in my personal interests as a consumer whether others use tools such as hacks for piracy. I do find it morally repugnant and I buy my media, and as an admin on gaf will happily ban those who think that they can cheat the system by getting "free" games.

While I agree, you do realize there are people (there must be someone) who think it's just as "morally repugnant" to circumvent region coding, right? Wanting to improve the functionality of YOUR hardware isn't always a defensible (morally or legally) position. Getting around region coding, playing DVDs with Wii homebrew, hacking specific handsets to get free services, whatever, are all "cheating the system". Region coding exists in order to prevent sales bleeding from harming secondary markets while they wait for localization (if they ever get it...). The Wii doesn't play DVDs because there would be an added cost involved (they'd have to include a digital out for audio and pay licensing fees), etc..

The fact that importers likely HELP markets more than they hurt them, or that no one in the history of ever has skipped on a DVD player and relied on their Wii instead doesn't make those cases "right", and there's always some moron who will claim that they find it "morally repugnant" that you've chosen to run your Wii games from a USB drive or not carry around a potato sack full of DS cartridges, legal or not.

Drawing a line where piracy is on one side and region-free playback, dumping games to usb hard drives / memory cards / etc. is on the other side is common fucking sense and I love it when people who disagree get run the fuck out of GAFtown, but it is taking a personal interest.

Calling people who want more control over their hardware out as pirates is fucking retarded. Calling people who want to retain the control they've had for three years pirates, crybabies, etc. (see this thread) is pretty much a new low for GAF.

If you're just trying to illustrate the difference between your individual choices as a consumer vs how you view/interact with pirates/non-pirates/gamers in general, then I think you've got an impossible task - what each individual chooses to do does have an effect on the industry as a whole. Hell, this is why we have this thread.

Personally, I'd love for the PS3 to be hacked to all hell. I'd love for geohot to not be the self-aggrandizing, bullshitting windbag that he is. But I'm well aware of the potential negative consequences as well. While I want control over MY hardware just as much as you, I always hope a system stays unhacked for at least a few years. But now? It's high time for the PS3 to have it's day in homebrew, and I can only hope that this shitstorm increases efforts (and produces actual results).

Not taking (and expressing) a personal interest as a consumer is folly. When the play's only characters are the pirates, the publishers, and the voiceless customers, you know it's going to be a tragedy.

 

[charlequin]

Personally, I'd love for the PS3 to be hacked to all hell. I'd love for geohot to not be the self-aggrandizing, bullshitting windbag that he is. But I'm well aware of the potential negative consequences as well. While I want control over MY hardware just as much as you, I always hope a system stays unhacked for at least a few years. But now? It's high time for the PS3 to have it's day in homebrew, and I can only hope that this shitstorm increases efforts (and produces actual results).

Not taking (and expressing) a personal interest as a consumer is folly. When the play's only characters are the pirates, the publishers, and the voiceless customers, you know it's going to be a tragedy.

An excellent post all around, but especially this part.

One thing I'd like to note is that one thing that's really sad about OtherOS being removed is that I believed Sony was absolutely, completely taking the right approach to dealing with hacking by including it in the first place -- the more homebrew-style applications the system supports without hacking, the fewer hackers actually have an interest in breaking the system's security to enable the things they want to do. Removing it now means they're buying into the same approach I've criticized so many other companies for -- "we'll stop you by force!" -- when I think welcoming in non-pirate homebrew developers and hobbyist hackers while shutting out pirates is a far superior solution for almost everyone.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

While I agree, you do realize there are people (there must be someone) who think it's just as "morally repugnant" to circumvent region coding, right? Wanting to improve the functionality of YOUR hardware isn't always a defensible (morally or legally) position. Getting around region coding, playing DVDs with Wii homebrew, hacking specific handsets to get free services, whatever, are all "cheating the system". Region coding exists in order to prevent sales bleeding from harming secondary markets while they wait for localization (if they ever get it...). The Wii doesn't play DVDs because there would be an added cost involved (they'd have to include a digital out for audio and pay licensing fees), etc..

The fact that importers likely HELP markets more than they hurt them, or that no one in the history of ever has skipped on a DVD player and relied on their Wii instead doesn't make those cases "right", and there's always some moron who will claim that they find it "morally repugnant" that you've chosen to run your Wii games from a USB drive or not carry around a potato sack full of DS cartridges, legal or not.

There's a definite difference between digital theft and format shifting or region breaking. The latter is the consumer exercising their rights to control their media. Piracy is a form of theft (though some will argue that it's not the same as physically stealing a physical object, but that's for another argument), plain and simple.

Drawing a line where piracy is on one side and region-free playback, dumping games to usb hard drives / memory cards / etc. is on the other side is common fucking sense and I love it when people who disagree get run the fuck out of GAFtown, but it is taking a personal interest.

I never said it wasn't a personal interest. My non-interest occurs when Sony decides to do something like this and then crying piracy. It isn't my job to care about Sony's bottom line when it conflicts with my interests as a consumer.

Calling people who want more control over their hardware out as pirates is fucking retarded. Calling people who want to retain the control they've had for three years pirates, crybabies, etc. (see this thread) is pretty much a new low for GAF.

Obviously we have a lot to agree with.

If you're just trying to illustrate the difference between your individual choices as a consumer vs how you view/interact with pirates/non-pirates/gamers in general, then I think you've got an impossible task - what each individual chooses to do does have an effect on the industry as a whole. Hell, this is why we have this thread.

I'd like to think that my position is far more tenable than others in this thread. I'm positive that Sony have not shed a single tear for my bluray issue.

Personally, I'd love for the PS3 to be hacked to all hell. I'd love for geohot to not be the self-aggrandizing, bullshitting windbag that he is. But I'm well aware of the potential negative consequences as well. While I want control over MY hardware just as much as you, I always hope a system stays unhacked for at least a few years. But now? It's high time for the PS3 to have it's day in homebrew, and I can only hope that this shitstorm increases efforts (and produces actual results).

In an ideal world, there would be only homebrew and piracy would be impossible to accomplish. Many hackers and homebrewers out there, like TeamTwiizers, not only wish to completely hack the Wii, but also to prevent pirates from taking advantage of their work. I like that idea.

But if it's a choice of swallowing the corporate shit or willing to accept that some tools may be used for evil, I'll take the greater good of consumer rights over the corporate.

Not taking (and expressing) a personal interest as a consumer is folly. When the play's only characters are the pirates, the publishers, and the voiceless customers, you know it's going to be a tragedy.

Well duh. Greek tragedy never has a happy ending.

 

[JudgeN]

Not taking (and expressing) a personal interest as a consumer is folly. When the play's only characters are the pirates, the publishers, and the voiceless customers, you know it's going to be a tragedy.

So what happens when your personal interest is you don't really care because you never used the feature anyway. Does that make you a mindless drone because your not outrage at a feature being taken away? This thread seems to have 2 extremes your either outraged or your a puppet.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

So what happens when your personal interest is you don't really care because you never used the feature anyway. Does that make you a mindless drone because your not outrage at a feature being taken away? This thread seems to have 2 extremes your either outraged or a puppet.

Perhaps the thinking should be "what if it was a feature I use/care a lot about" before posting "lol who cares". (Not saying that you posted that.)

 

[Version 3.0]

Wanting to improve the functionality of YOUR hardware isn't always a defensible (morally or legally) position. Getting around region coding, playing DVDs with Wii homebrew, hacking specific handsets to get free services, whatever, are all "cheating the system".

Morally, yes it is always a defensible position. Sure, there are always (stupid) people around to argue the opposite of any stance, but the concept is simple and correct: "You buy it, you own it". The seller's intent of use only defines their responsibility for defects or breakage.

Legally can change overnight, but so far the law in most places has been supportive of the above. The digital age has raised all sorts of questions yet to be addressed, though. It scares me that the (stupid) people willing to forfeit ownership now and forever of everything they buy could actually get their wish, screwing the rest of us in the process. But not too much; precedent and reason are on our side.

 

[Version 3.0]

So what happens when your personal interest is you don't really care because you never used the feature anyway. Does that make you a mindless drone because your not outrage at a feature being taken away? This thread seems to have 2 extremes your either outraged or your a puppet.

If you don't care, then "what happens", logically, would be that you didn't click on the thread at all, I suppose. If you did click, then maybe ask yourself what kind of precedent this sets. In other words, "What's next?".

You like your Smartphone? Well, it's primary use is defined as a phone. How would you like it if, legally, any other feature it has could go bye-bye at any time? The fact that Sony is disabling a relatively unused feature in this case could lead to such things in the future if they "get away with it".

 

[patsu]

Caring (or having a personal interest) does NOT mean labelling people as crybabies, stupid, cows, drones, or whatever. That's immaturity.

Some consumers may react first, some will react later. Some will react more, some will react less, or not react. That's just the nature of things. People who react first are not always right, they simply react earlier (or perhaps the loudest).

 

[Rich!]

If I still had my PS3, I'd be pissed.

Having OtherOS installed was a nice alternative if my main PC was busy.

 

[missile]

... DeanA (Sony dev) from B3D mentioned that it's non-trivial to write new drivers.

For sure. But I was talking about maintaing the OtherOS on the phats.

4 weeks from scratch ? I don't know... he may still be grappling with the SPU local store and b*tching at the same time. The browser needs to run in-game (i.e., small) and fast. It supports JavaScript and Flash. Even open source Flash on PC is not so hot after so many years.

Not entirely from scratch, but also with the help of open-source. Up to my point
of view a GameOS browers can run out of the PPU pretty fast if done right. Have
you ever tried Opera on PS3Linux? It blows the hell out of the GameOS browser as
well as Firefox on PS3Linux by a very huge amount. That is to say, the
performance of the GameOS browser is inferior. And there is more, Opera does
only run from the PPU. I'm aware that the GameOS browser uses an SPE to decode
flash videos. But let me tell you that the GameOS's flash implementation (which
is buggy without end) doesn't even support HD videos. And an SD youtube video
runs pretty well on the PPU alone. Currenlty, I have vlc running to re-route
flash videos in firefox and it does pretty fine while a whole linux and stuff is
running in the background. Putting mplayer underneath would even allow to play
videos up to 720p in a browser without even touching a single SPE.

I don't really see a need to have a GameOS browser entirely running on the
GameOS-SPE just to be able to call it in-game. Before thinking about an in-game
browser Sony should bring cross-game chat to the table.

What I don't get is the following; why isn't there a fully-fledged browser on
the PS3? A browser implemented as a native application just like the PSN store
or F@H client that uses all the capabilities of the PS3 to present the internet
to the user as it should be? In my book, a proper browser is an integral
component of Playstation 3. Is it really that difficult to do? We are now three
years into PS3, but the browser is still sh!t. So either Sony don't wanna have
a good one or the people who are responsible for the current GameOS browser
have no skill.

... One thing I'd like to note is that one thing that's really sad about OtherOS being removed is that I believed Sony was absolutely, completely taking the right approach to dealing with hacking by including it in the first place -- the more homebrew-style applications the system supports without hacking, the fewer hackers actually have an interest in breaking the system's security to enable the things they want to do. Removing it now means they're buying into the same approach I've criticized so many other companies for -- "we'll stop you by force!" -- when I think welcoming in non-pirate homebrew developers and hobbyist hackers while shutting out pirates is a far superior solution for almost everyone.

Well said. Locking out the OtherOS can turn back on them in a bad way. After
using the OtherOS for three years now, I can say it's good the way it is. Sure,
having the RSX enabled would be cool, but it's not really necessary. The guys
over at cbe-oss-dev did a good job supporting and enhancing PS3Linux.
Thumbs up!

Here is a note of the official PS3Linux maintainer;

Hi Everyone,

From April 1st, 2010 my work assignment within Sony will
change, and I will longer be assigned to work on PS3-Linux.
After the change I will continue to maintain PS3-Linux,
but as a personal hobby, and not as an effort supported by
Sony Computer Entertainment. ...

This.

 

[patsu]

I paid for my YDL subscription over a year ago because I wanted to support YellowDog. I programmed in PS3 Linux and played with the Linux apps. I have a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse hooked up permanently to my PS3.

If Sony can use their resources better by taking away OtherOS, I can, and most likely will support them just because it makes more sense for gamers at large.

If they (or in this case, GeoHot) prove that people can harm PSN outside Sony's control, I will support the removal of OtherOS.

 

[Version 3.0]

Caring (or having a personal interest) does NOT mean labelling people as crybabies, stupid, cows, drones, or whatever. That's immaturity.

Some consumers may react first, some will react later. Some will react more, some will react less, or not react. That's just the nature of things. People who react first are not always right, they simply react earlier (or perhaps the loudest).

I have no problem with people who don't care at all, disagree about this leading to worse scenarios, don't care because this specific case doesn't personally affect them, or don't understand the issue. But people whose opinion is that I have no consumer rights ARE "stupid, cows, drones, or whatever". That's not labelling, that's simple truth, and it's also defending my personal rights against people who have stated interest in suppressing said rights. Look at my post history. I rarely post anything insulting. But occasionally, it's well-deserved.

 

[patsu]

How do you know they think they have no consumer rights ?

 

[gofreak]

Unfettered access to the hardware via hacks, for one.

Wouldn't have mattered in this case. XBMC is so reliant on DX and MS/Windows stuff that a port would be very difficult. Back when GPU access was assumed in PS3 Linux, before release, the XBMC guys said a port was highly unlikely for these reasons. Unfortunately.

The goal of a well intentioned PS3 hack should be Linux with full hardware access, IMO, though.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

Have you been tag quoted yet?

 

[missile]

... The goal of a well intentioned PS3 hack should be Linux with full hardware access, IMO, though.

This.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Wouldn't have mattered in this case. XBMC is so reliant on DX and MS/Windows stuff that a port would be very difficult. Back when GPU access was assumed in PS3 Linux, before release, the XBMC guys said a port was highly unlikely for these reasons. Unfortunately.

The goal of a well intentioned PS3 hack should be Linux with full hardware access, IMO, though.

Very well, will you take "XBMC-like functionality for the PS3" then?

 

[Igo]

So Sony engineers find a flaw in the otheros code and decide to remove it entirely? I wonder how long they've known and how long ago this was planned.

Unfortunate.

 

[missile]

... If Sony can use their resources better by taking away OtherOS, I can, and most likely will support them just because it makes more sense for gamers at large. ...

If they cry about the few bucks they loose by additionally testing the OtherOS against a
new firmware, then they should start building better test environment in the first place.
How often does a firmware change, anyway?

Anyhow, I would even pay the price of a retail game to get the OtherOS enabled (Slim
included) just to lower Sony's cost on testing the OtherOS against two firmware updates
per year. And I think a lot of other OtherOS user would do the same. Let's say there are
500.000 OtherOS user out there. If only about 100.000 of those would pay 60 EUR to
get the OtherOS enabled from PSN, then I think 6.000.000 EUR should cover the cost
for testing the OtherOS against two firmware updates per year -- for the next ten year!

 

[JudgeN]

Perhaps the thinking should be "what if it was a feature I use/care a lot about" before posting "lol who cares". (Not saying that you posted that.)

If you don't care, then "what happens", logically, would be that you didn't click on the thread at all, I suppose. If you did click, then maybe ask yourself what kind of precedent this sets. In other words, "What's next?".

You like your Smartphone? Well, it's primary use is defined as a phone. How would you like it if, legally, any other feature it has could go bye-bye at any time? The fact that Sony is disabling a relatively unused feature in this case could lead to such things in the future if they "get away with it".

Both of these are fear terms IMO, I personally don't want to live my life in a constant state of fear that something "going" to happen. I mean hell following these examples I wouldn't buy any Activision games (we know they fucked over people), EA games (shutting down online series for games less then a year old), Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and hell a lot of other companies that screw over customers. I also work IT, Ive seen updates take away features, fix broken ones, add features, break perfectly working functions, and etc. Maybe i'm just to laid back to fight the good fight so to speak.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

Wouldn't have mattered in this case. XBMC is so reliant on DX and MS/Windows stuff that a port would be very difficult.

Err..... the same XBMC that is distributed for OSX, AppleTV, Linux, and its own Live CD?

 

[patsu]

If they cry about the few bucks they loose by additionally testing the OtherOS against a
new firmware, then they should start building better test environment in the first place.
How often does a firmware change, anyway?

... which means the reason may not be (entirely) cost related ? For someone like Geoff Leland, I'd rather he works on future firmware features for GameOS. He's technical enough.

Anyhow, I would even pay the price of a retail game to get the OtherOS enabled (Slim
included) just to lower Sony's cost on testing the OtherOS against two firmware updates
per year. And I think a lot of other OtherOS user would do the same. Let's say there are
500.000 OtherOS user out there. If only about 100.000 of those would pay 60 EUR to
get the OtherOS enabled from PSN, then I think 6.000.000 EUR should cover the cost
for testing the OtherOS against two firmware updates per year -- for the next ten year!

Are there 500,000 OtherOS users ?

EDIT:
Missed your earlier post. Opera or WebKit would be nice, but it will still take more than 4 weeks for an undergraduate to port to XMB. Those browsers rely on UNIX underpinning which is not available in GameOS.

In-game web browser is used by quite a few games, so I don't think they can back-paddle now.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

The PS3 has steadily lost abilities my launch unit had. Strange vision.

That was my first impression, but they have added other stuff to the firmware since launch. I think if we revert to firmware 1.10, a lot of people will freak out.

Certainly nothing worth backwards compatibility. Meh, I don't really care anymore they've obviously been confused the whole gen. Glad it had some good games.

 

[patsu]

That was my first impression, but they have added other stuff to the firmware since launch. I think if we revert to firmware 1.10, a lot of people will freak out.

Certainly nothing worth backwards compatibility. Meh, I don't really care anymore they've obviously been confused the whole gen. Glad it had some good games.

Most of the non-B/C people didn't pay $399 / $499 for their PS3.

Would be interesting to see how it affect sales if they put B/C back. But it's probably a sailed ship.

 

[TheSeks]

The goal of a well intentioned PS3 hack should be Linux with full hardware access, IMO, though.

If only Sony did this in the first place...

Alas...

Maybe i'm just to laid back to fight the good fight so to speak.

Maybe you are, and that's (IMO) a bad thing to be.

Your rights should be important to you. Toeing the company line and going "Well, good, serves those dirty pirates (when there isn't even fucking pirates in the first goddamn place) right" is a bad bad mindless thing.

Err..... the same XBMC that is distributed for OSX, AppleTV, Linux, and its own Live CD?

Oshi--There is a Live CD? I WANT ONE! *rushes off*

 

[JudgeN]

I


Maybe you are, and that's (IMO) a bad thing to be.

Your rights should be important to you. Toeing the company line and going "Well, good, serves those dirty pirates (when there isn't even fucking pirates in the first goddamn place) right" is a bad bad mindless thing.

I said this sucks for the people it effects, I also think Sony is jumping the gun consider there is no "hack" for the PS3. But I'm not going to get my pitchfork and throw my PS3 out the windows because Sony is a bad company either. This thread shouldn't have 2 extreme RAAAGGGEEEE or defenders.

 

[tonkatsu_ramen]

I bought my Ps3 at launch because I heard about its ability to run linux and subsequently vlc player. My XBMC xbox wasn't capable of playing the newer codecs at the time like x264, so I thought the ps3 would be the perfect replacement. Sadly after using linux on ps3 I found that its capabilities as a media player were more or less equal to XBMC.

In the end I deleted other os from my ps3 and I havn't used my ps3 as a linux box since. I am a bit disappointed that sony would cut this functionality but I understand that this was a precaution to avoid piracy.

 

[Aspiring]

Never used it and dont care. In fact i have no idea what it does :lol

But i can understand why people would be pissed. Just because i have no idea i am sure plenty love it.

I just hope that if they are cutting back a feature something like cross game voice chat/invites come in to help people forget. Would that not be the smart thing to do in a situation like this?

 

[missile]

... which means the reason may not be cost related ? ...

I think it's a sum of whatever fits Sony.

Are there 500,000 OtherOS users ?

Just a guess.

You have to consider that there are about 25 million phats out there. Usually a
standard OtherOS user isn't that active in various OtherOS related forums do talk
about all the stuff like a pure gamer does in multiple gaming boards at the same
time. I do believe that there a more OtherOS users out there as one might think
there are.

EDIT:
Missed your earlier post. Opera or WebKit would be nice, but it will still take more than 4 weeks for an undergraduate to port to XMB. ...

That's the reason I wrote undergraduated project, possibly consisting of 6 to 8 people.

 

[missile]

... I just hope that if they are cutting back a feature something like cross game voice chat/invites come in to help people forget. Would that not be the smart thing to do in a situation like this?

:lol No.

 

[pancakesandsex]

Both of these are fear terms IMO, I personally don't want to live my life in a constant state of fear that something "going" to happen. I mean hell following these examples I wouldn't buy any Activision games (we know they fucked over people), EA games (shutting down online series for games less then a year old), Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and hell a lot of other companies that screw over customers. I also work IT, Ive seen updates take away features, fix broken ones, add features, break perfectly working functions, and etc. Maybe i'm just to laid back to fight the good fight so to speak.

The only "fear terms" you should be worrying about are "You, Shall, Be, and Judged."

 

[Marty Chinn]

Wouldn't have mattered in this case. XBMC is so reliant on DX and MS/Windows stuff that a port would be very difficult. Back when GPU access was assumed in PS3 Linux, before release, the XBMC guys said a port was highly unlikely for these reasons. Unfortunately.

The goal of a well intentioned PS3 hack should be Linux with full hardware access, IMO, though.

The irony here is that XBMC on Linux is ahead of the Windows version because of DirectX holding it back. So I totally don't buy that now given that the Linux version is perfectly viable without DirectX.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Both of these are fear terms IMO, I personally don't want to live my life in a constant state of fear that something "going" to happen. I mean hell following these examples I wouldn't buy any Activision games (we know they fucked over people), EA games (shutting down online series for games less then a year old), Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and hell a lot of other companies that screw over customers. I also work IT, Ive seen updates take away features, fix broken ones, add features, break perfectly working functions, and etc. Maybe i'm just to laid back to fight the good fight so to speak.

The problem with not taking a stance is if you keep saying, oh that's no big deal, or that's minor, or that doesn't effect me, the things slowly creep up and add up to a whole that does negatively affect you and then before you know it, it's too late because you didn't care early on.

 

[badcrumble]

About 15.5 hours left until it's April 1 in Japan - I think if there are any added features worth announcing in the firmware, we would've heard about them already.

So here's the question: Do you plan to update? Or do you plan to see if geohotz can work out a CFW solution?

I chat with PSN buddies a whole lot and buy my fair share of PSN Store content, so I'm likely to update since I'd like to be able to connect to the PSN.

 

[androvsky]

Although I consider XBMC a bit of a weak argument since the GameOS handles streaming pretty well especially with ps3mediaserver, XBMC has already been ported to linux and opengl. And the main thing XBMC needs with hardware acceleration is the fancy interface. Well, there's already a Cell-accelerated OpenGL in the works, currently it's pretty sad, but for the simple 2D needs of XBMC it's probably not too far off.

And honestly, if XBMC was easily buildable in YDL, I would've already tried it. Problem is the linux build has a crap-ton of dependencies, many of which aren't easily found for YDL. I was going to throw Ubuntu on my PS3 this summer when I got some more free time and try it again. IBM also donated some nice Cell-accelerated SDL libraries specifically for 2D graphics and scaling, it'd take a little more work to get working on the PS3, but it'd be doable.

The next problem is there's still no Cell-accelerated open-source codec for h.264, but if XBMC was running, maybe there'd be a bit more interest in a port?

The sad thing is that MythTV, an XBMC clone, has been running great on the PS3 for a couple years now. Even has working DVR functionality with TV tuners that have open source drivers.


I've been trying to keep up with the thread, but is emulator talk on the table? There's an amazing project that takes a fresh YDL install on the PS3 and install a couple dozen different emulators, including configuring the DS3. Dosbox and an Amiga emulator were next on the list to be added. You could still do it yourself, but it'd take a bit of tinkering.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

About 15.5 hours left until it's April 1 in Japan - I think if there are any added features worth announcing in the firmware, we would've heard about them already.

So here's the question: Do you plan to update? Or do you plan to see if geohotz can work out a CFW solution?

I chat with PSN buddies a whole lot and buy my fair share of PSN Store content, so I'm likely to update since I'd like to be able to connect to the PSN.

Personally, I don't use PSN and I haven't been playing any new games on PS3 lately. There's no harm in me waiting for a little while to see, especially since I actually use OtherOS.

Although I consider XBMC a bit of a weak argument since the GameOS handles streaming pretty well especially with ps3mediaserver, XBMC has already been ported to linux and opengl. And the main thing XBMC needs with hardware acceleration is the fancy interface. Well, there's already a Cell-accelerated OpenGL in the works, currently it's pretty sad, but for the simple 2D needs of XBMC it's probably not too far off.

And honestly, if XBMC was easily buildable in YDL, I would've already tried it. Problem is the linux build has a crap-ton of dependencies, many of which aren't easily found for YDL. I was going to throw Ubuntu on my PS3 this summer when I got some more free time and try it again. IBM also donated some nice Cell-accelerated SDL libraries specifically for 2D graphics and scaling, it'd take a little more work to get working on the PS3, but it'd be doable.

The next problem is there's still no Cell-accelerated open-source codec for h.264, but if XBMC was running, maybe there'd be a bit more interest in a port?

The sad thing is that MythTV, an XBMC clone, has been running great on the PS3 for a couple years now. Even has working DVR functionality with TV tuners that have open source drivers.


I've been trying to keep up with the thread, but is emulator talk on the table? There's an amazing project that takes a fresh YDL install on the PS3 and install a couple dozen different emulators, including configuring the DS3. Dosbox and an Amiga emulator were next on the list to be added. You could still do it yourself, but it'd take a bit of tinkering.

One question, does MythTV have bluray playback capability?

Also, of course emulator talk is allowed. Finding ROMs isn't, though.

 

[badcrumble]

I've been trying to keep up with the thread, but is emulator talk on the table? There's an amazing project that takes a fresh YDL install on the PS3 and install a couple dozen different emulators, including configuring the DS3. Dosbox and an Amiga emulator were next on the list to be added. You could still do it yourself, but it'd take a bit of tinkering.

Which systems are getting emulated?

 

[Mudkips]

Morally, yes it is always a defensible position. Sure, there are always (stupid) people around to argue the opposite of any stance, but the concept is simple and correct: "You buy it, you own it". The seller's intent of use only defines their responsibility for defects or breakage.

Let's say you own X and want to do Y (which is specifically unsupported / prohibited).
Morally, the fact that it's "your" hardware is not important if there is any negative effect due to Y on others.

Claiming "Enabling Y is morally okay because I OWN X and can legally enable Y." is faulty reasoning. "I can legally enable Y because I OWN X." and "Doing Y is morally okay because it has no significant negative impact on others." are sound. The morality of Y is determined by Y itself, not by a legal right to enable it.

Otherwise, "I own it, I'll do what I want" would be as valid a defense for pirates, cheaters, pirate radio, the asshole who modified his router firmware to triple the signal strength, the guy running a cell phone jammer, the idiot who disabled safety features on his appliances and burned the neighborhood down, etc. as it is for legit users.

I'm not nitpicking. It's important for companies and governments to recognize our right to enable Y because we own X, and it's just as important for customers to realize that Y's morality (and legality) must stand on it's own, lest we want to see our rights continually assaulted. I'd love to be able to not care about the shit the assholes and idiots do. But they do it, it affects the industry, and that in turn affects me.

 

[mclem]

I think my stance on it is this:

I agree that Sony should provide a safe environment for developers that's free of piracy, and I commend them for having managed to maintain one for so long (I think the Gamecube was the previous record-holder, wasn't it, although that was primarily due to lack of interest?).

However, OtherOS is a feature, one that was mentioned frequently when the PS3 was promoted; taking it away from people is an unreasonable move, and I'm certainly going to be curious to see how the lawsuits pan out, I think there may be some reasonable arguments under some countries' legal systems, so it's down to the lawyers.

Ultimately, though, Sony *shouldn't have offered* OtherOS in the first place. That's the real issue, here; if they weren't able to run it securely, they shouldn't have used it as a bargaining tool and a selling point way back at the start of all this. The bait-and-switch accusations are reasonable; tempt people in with a feature they find interesting, then remove it when it's too costly to maintain.

"If it's no longer useful to them, they dump it". That's a dangerous perception for consumers to have. You don't want people going into the next generation wondering how much of the feature set will actually last through the whole generation.

 

[androvsky]

Personally, I don't use PSN and I haven't been playing any new games on PS3 lately. There's no harm in me waiting for a little while to see, especially since I actually use OtherOS.



One question, does MythTV have bluray playback capability?

Also, of course emulator talk is allowed. Finding ROMs isn't, though.

Currently, no playback software running in linux on the PS3 can handle blu-ray playback due to the lack of Cell-accelerated codecs. Unless all the movies you watch are mpeg-2. None of the very few people who can write an h.264 codec in open-source were interested or able to make a re-write for the Cell. None of the few people able to write open-source Cell-accelerated software had the time to wrap their heads around the h.264 codec. 720p would be the best you could expect without it.

There's a Cell-accelerated mplayer that can handle mpeg-2 at at least 1080i, possibly 1080p too. MythTV can use that mplayer for video playback.

http://thezerogameproject.com/about
Current zerogame supported systems:
Atari Lynx
Gameboy
Gameboy Advance
Gameboy Color
Sega Genesis/MegaDrive
Game Gear
Master System
MAME
NES
FDS
TG16
SNES
Wonderswan
Wonderswan Color

Sega CD isn't listed, but I think it works too. And like I said, Dosbox and the Amiga emulator were in the works. Keep in mind all of these emulators work without using that project, including many more. All this project does is make installing them and setting up the controller much easier.

 

[beast786]

Recently we saw some pictures and details on the PS3 Debug Firmware 3.20 update, and today it's available to download alongside the official changelog for those with PS3 Test consoles!

Download: PS3 Debug Firmware v3.20 (USA) Update

Courtesy of deathriders, PS3 Debug / Test Firmware 3.20 includes 3D Video Output and OtherOS support (unlike PS3 Firmware v3.21) and bugfixes among other updates detailed below, and if you haven't done so yet be sure to check out the PS3 TEST / TOOL Debug Game Backup Guide and PS3 Debug Link Database.

Changes from the PS3 Debug Firmware 3.20 Update ReadMe File include:

New Features - System Software (GUI)
- The resolution for 3D video output has been supported. In this release, the 3D rendering is supported by the following features:
- Features that support the 3D rendering:
- Features that the system displays such as the system software that is displayed when the PS button is pressed during gameplay(GUI), or notification or error messages displayed on the upper right on the screen
- Features that do not support the 3D rendering: System utilities that are explicitly called by game applications such as the save data

Note that the display may be corrupted in all GUIed system utilities when the 3D resolution is set.

Menu of the System Software (GUI)
- [Settings] -> [Debug Settings] -> [3D Video Output]: [Automatic]/On

Do not use this menu item because it is only available on the devkit.

Specification Changes - Check menu in the Game column
- The following specification changes have been mage in the check that is available from the Check menu in the Game column:
- It is now allowed to mix a library for SDK320 and a library for SDK310.
- It now warns if the SDK version of the SPU is smaller than that of the PPU.
- The automatic setting feature now supports the resolution for the 3D video output through Display Settings -> Video Output Settings. To output a 3D video, make sure to set the Display settings again.

Also, do not forget to select "HDMI" for the TV terminal and "Automatic" for the resolution from the Display Settings.

 

[Fersis]

They better add new features.
It would be so sad to have a firmware update that just removes a feature instead of adding new ones. =/

I want my friend groups SORNY !! >8(

 

[Massa]

They better add new features.
It would be so sad to have a firmware update that just removes a feature instead of adding new ones. =/

I want my friend groups SORNY !!

They'll add new features when they can charge for them.

 

[Crisis]

Actually Fersis brings up a good point (surprised I said that). Do we know if they're adding anything else to the firmware?