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[legend166]

I wonder what the legalities of a situation like this are.

Is there precedent of a company removing features from a product post launch, and basically giving you no option? I mean, people will say "bububu just don't upgrade!" but that's not realistic if you want to use your system fully.

Any lawyers in here?

 

[viewtiful_dru]

You would have done this even though you'd need to format the entire contents of your HDD? Coming from someone that spent a couple of days setting up Yellow Dog on their launch PS3 when I first got it, I'd much rather browse the web on my iPhone in the short-term.

when I upgraded my ps3's hard drive from the stock 60gb to a 320gb drive, I made a partition for other os
(just never got around to installing anything)

 

[mclem]

I'm certainly not in a position to kick up a fuss about this - I'm one of the many who've never used it - but it strikes me that this could be against the Trade Descriptions Act, surely (Or equivalent laws in other countries)? The product no longer has all the advertised functionality.

Of course, it's quite possible there's something buried in the T&Cs that covers them for this.

 

[Solid Moustache]

What in the fucking hellfuck? Why the fuck are they doing this..., goodbye to use my ps3 as a computer considering I don't have one right now (only a laptop but it's shared blah blah..), I don't even get why they are doing this... it's not to avoid piracy that's for sure, it's not to avoid hacking because 4 years with OtherOS and it's not been hacked, so WHY, why would you remove a feature from your product when it's not really necessary, why in the fucking hell? I just don't get it, can someone explain it to me? (impossible).

Sony just shot themselves in the foot...

 

[sdornan]

The people who think this is an April Fool's joke are completely out of touch with reality.

 

[The Faceless Master]

:lol :lol

i paid $510 to use the PS3 for gaming and linux!

someone should sue...

 

[DarkJC]

Knew this was coming after the hypervisor exploit was found. Even if it amounts to nothing, Sony relies way too much on a secure system for DLC and everything else they sell through the store. It would be a disaster for them if that exploit led to running custom code above the hypervisor.

 

[Mr_Appleby]

So, probably not.

by free up, i mean, the user personally backing up game stuff, reformatting, restoring. pretty sure it doesn't back up the linux partition with a system backup/restore. i hope.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Hmm. So will the partition become unusable or will it merge with the game os partition?

I'd hate to lose the extra partition, and merging it with the other one just opens the door to possible errors - imagine the hell that would be raised if the entire HDD got screwed during that process.

People better get their backups ready!

 

[DMeisterJ]

I wonder what the legalities of a situation like this are.

Is there precedent of a company removing features from a product post launch, and basically giving you no option? I mean, people will say "bububu just don't upgrade!" but that's not realistic if you want to use your system fully.

Any lawyers in here?

What legalities?

It's really not that deep. Something was taken out. If there were any, they'd just flip the switch back.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Take it. Sorry for those that it affects.

 

[TTP]

Erm... you don't know that... infact, looking at the PSP history, if it happens, they'll probably still be able to play those games.

Also, you can look it from another perspective... the fact that a "very minor portion of the installed base" MIGHT have a "piracy-ready" system, and an EVEN smaller portion WILL pirate it ISN'T reason enough for remove a feature that will screw some people over. A feature that was very well advertised.

1st of all, that "very minor portion of the installed base" is currently probably the 80% of it.

2nd, you (and me) do not know what the technicalities of the whole thing are. For all we know, a hack generated on a fat PS3 could have consequences on the Slim as well, even if it's already without the OtherOS functionality. For all we know, some sensible code related to that is still present in the overall OS, so they had to make the hard call to remove it completely from the firmware, no matter the system that runs it. So "forcing" people to totally replace the old code with the new one (cos you ARE forced to do so in order to play your legit games on a Slim) was necessary.
Again, I'm just assuming. Not saying this is the case. Just offering an example of what the reality might actually be. Heck, they might even just free some space for more useful features. Whatever.

3rd, if point 2nd doesn't convince you, and you believe there are other reasons (besides anti-piracy measure) as to why they had to remove OtherOS please share those with us. Funny thing is, whatever the reason you can come up with, it would still be a reason Sony considered serious enough to remove that functionality.

 

[Fersis]

i paid $510 to use the PS3 for gaming and linux!

someone should sue...

Someone is goint to sue. Thats for sure.

 

[legend166]

I'm certainly not in a position to kick up a fuss about this - I'm one of the many who've never used it - but it strikes me that this could be against the Trade Descriptions Act, surely (Or equivalent laws in other countries)? The product no longer has all the advertised functionality.

Of course, it's quite possible there's something buried in the T&Cs that covers them for this.

Yeah, that's was I was thinking. I don't think burying something in T&Cs would cover them.

Someone who has a phat they don't use anymore should ring up and try to get a refund, just to prove a point.

 

[jiggles]

I wonder why it wasn't included in Slims in the first place. It's as if they noticed a potential risk in the feature a while back and have now killed it off due to OtherOS exploits getting a little too much attention for their liking recently.

It's crazy that they'd be as heavy-handed as this, but after PSP, you can see why they'd be a little edgy when it comes to security.

 

[WickedLaharl]

shame that there probably isn't any legal recourse consumers can pursue here.

 

[Ranger X]

So basically, the 10 people using this feature (that happen to post here of course) are already making a big fuss of this useless feature? Hey, I feel for you all.

:lol

 

[JoseJX]

I paid for a fat PS3 *BECAUSE* I wanted to use the OtherOS feature.

Since I can no longer sign into PSN, it looks like I won't be spending any more money on my PS3. Good going Sony.

So basically, the 10 people using this feature (that happen to post here of course) are already making a big fuss of this useless feature? Hey, I feel for you all.

I'm sorry you don't use the feature, but I've been doing my graduate research work on the CBE. I honestly won't be able to buy any more PSN games for the machine until I graduate.

 

[teepo]

you guys honestly care?

 

[BoilersFan23]

I wonder why it wasn't included in Slims in the first place. It's as if they noticed a potential risk in the feature a while back and have now killed it off due to OtherOS exploits getting a little too much attention for their liking recently.

It's crazy that they'd be as heavy-handed as this, but after PSP, you can see why they'd be a little edgy when it comes to security.

PS3 Slim consoles are selling quite well and don't have the install OS feature. I think that alone showed Sony that the feature wasn't important enough to keep. I wouldn't be surprised that removing the feature gave them extra room to add other features in the future, or help clean up the PS3 OS software.

I just remember people who tried Linux on PS3 complain how gimped it was. I don't see why people would care when you really couldn't do much with it.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

you guys honestly care?

Some people, yes. Why is that so hard to believe?

 

[h3ro]

 

[wsippel]

Nintendo yanked mp3 support from the Wii last year. It's kinda dumb.

Sure. But the consoles that came with MP3 support still support MP3s. They didn't remove shit. I bought that thing on day one, I'm on the very latest firmware, and it still plays MP3s just fine - not that I care, but that's not the point. That was more like PS2 backwards compatibility. Specific hardware revisions support it, others don't. Nobody lost any functionality whatsoever.

 

[patsu]

It's an expected move following GeoHot's hack.

If you don't use Linux, it means Sony only intends to focus on GameOS rather than playing incremental cat and mouse game with the hackers. The same talent can be used to do more games and more flexible DRM.

If you only use PS3 Linux, like USAF, then it doesn't affect you too.

If you use both Linux and PS3, then I am afraid you'll have to buy a PC Linux or a PS3 Slim.

 

[Somnid]

Sony may not be able to take your otherOS feature away in all areas but they certainly don't have to provide you with any PSN services. Choosing not to upgrade is your option.

 

[BeEatNU]

PS: It'll be ONE WHOLE FUCKING YEAR by the time this update comes out that I can't watch my fucking BLURAYS SONY.

:/

Why can't you watch them?

 

[androvsky]

http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html

3. SERVICES AND UPDATES

From time to time, SCE may provide updates, upgrades or services to your PS3 system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines or provide you with new offerings.

Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, new technology or revised settings and features which may prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system.

Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality.

SCE, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including any terms in the PS3 system documentation or manual, or at http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-license/index.html.

EULAs aren't automatically fully enforceable (especially the "if you broke the shrinkwrap and can read this, you automatically agreed to everything" type), but it doesn't mean it'll be easy contesting that.

 

[Y2Kev]

Sure. But the consoles that came with MP3 support still support MP3s. They didn't remove shit. I bought that thing on day one, I'm on the very latest firmware, and it still plays MP3s just fine - not that I care, but that's not the point. That was more like PS2 backwards compatibility. Specific hardware revisions support it, others don't. Nobody lost any functionality whatsoever.

No, that's not what happened. With the December 2007 Wii update, Photo Channel 1.1 yanked Mp3 for all people who wanted to stay on the latest version and replaced it with AAC support. It's not hardware. Don't know what's up with your Wii. I mean, it was optional if you didn't update. But I would imagine that has more to do with Nintendo's system infrastructure.

It actually happened a lot longer ago than I thought.

 

[KillerAJD]

Used it once, then never touched it, and then got a slim when my phat died. Still sucks for those that used it and/or don't like the idea of it being cut. On the brighter side, I wonder how much memory this frees up? There had to be some amount used for it in reserve, right? This also might be a way for Sony to add new features that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I do not claim to be knowledgeable in the subject, but it could be a possibility, no? Also, for those saying it might be against the law for removing functionality etc., wouldn't that be the same case for games dropping online sometime into it's lifespan? That seems to be covered by the EULA, and I haven't heard anybody making a stink about that (legally anyways). I would assume Sony would be safe from that in that aspect (and again, no real knowledge on the subject, just throwing my two cents out there).

 

[DarkJC]

No, that's not what happened. With the December 2007 Wii update, Photo Channel 1.1 yanked Mp3 for all people and replaced it with AAC support. It's not hardware. Don't know what's up with your Wii. I mean, it was optional if you didn't update. But I would imagine that has more to do with Nintendo's system infrastructure.

It actually happened a lot longer ago than I thought.

He probably never updated the photo channel.

 

[MrPliskin]

What's gonna happen now to all the people that bought PS3 for the Cell's computing power? Like the US army and shit...



Seriously Sony... FUCK YOU!

Erm... you can install Linux on it?

I'm pretty sure if the Military or anyone else is using a PS3 as a computer, they are not using it as a PS3, which means this is irrelevant to them.

Seriously Metalmurphy... FUCK YOU!

(j/j about the last part, but your post was either premature reaction or satire, I dunno which).

 

[SolidusDave]

Soooo, an "hack" - which gained nothing we not already had thanks to the open PS3 system - is actually responsible for REMOVING homebrew from a device. First time ever?
Awesome! Thanks Hotz!

edit:
also (and this is worse): Because of Hotz's hack the firmware devs had to stop working on the Blu-ray patch for Dragona to create 3.21!

 

[Chip N Chance]

What ever it takes to reduce piracy i guess.

 

[DarkJC]

Used it once, then never touched it, and then got a slim when my phat died. Still sucks for those that used it and/or don't like the idea of it being cut. On the brighter side, I wonder how much memory this frees up? There had to be some amount used for it in reserve, right? This also might be a way for Sony to add new features that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I do not claim to be knowledgeable in the subject, but it could be a possibility, no?

There's no reason this functionality would take up any memory when booted into the GameOS at all.

 

[AndyD]

I wonder what the legalities of a situation like this are.

Is there precedent of a company removing features from a product post launch, and basically giving you no option? I mean, people will say "bububu just don't upgrade!" but that's not realistic if you want to use your system fully.

Any lawyers in here?

You agree to the TOS which say features may change. So they might if this is not a April Fools joke. Customers likely have no recourse.

Its like servers going down for games after a few years. People complain, but there it nothing they can do.

 

[chubigans]

Used it once, then never touched it, and then got a slim when my phat died. Still sucks for those that used it and/or don't like the idea of it being cut. On the brighter side, I wonder how much memory this frees up? There had to be some amount used for it in reserve, right? This also might be a way for Sony to add new features that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I do not claim to be knowledgeable in the subject, but it could be a possibility, no?

I can't imagine it used all that much memory...but that's a good question.

I'm really surprised at this removal, but doesn't affect me one bit. Tried Other OS and it was garbage IMO.

Let's hope geohot gets the PS3 fully hacked.

Bwahaha, have fun waiting for that to happen. :lol

 

[maniac-kun]

Well my advice: dont believe anything. This should be a banable offence.

 

[Solid Moustache]

Coming soon:

3.4. No DVD playback.

3.6. No PS2 BC in models that support it.

4.0. No games?

When they came for the OtherOS support I did not speak out because I didn't use.
Then they came for the PS2 BC, and I did not speak out because I had an Slim.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[wsippel]

:/

Why can't you watch them?

NTSC PS3 don't like region free PAL Blu-rays if I remember correctly. It's an old bug (but it wasn't always there I believe), and even though Sony knows about, they obviously don't give a fuck. The funny thing is that it supposedly works the other way around (PAL PS3s play region free PAL and NTSC Blu-rays just fine).

 

[Y2Kev]

Coming soon:

3.4. No DVD playback.

3.6. No PS2 BC in models that support it.

4.0. No games?

When they came for the OtherOS support I did not speak out because I didn't use.
Then they came for the PS2 BC, and I did not speak out because I had an Slim.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

Holocaust poetry?

 

[Speevy]

Let's be honest. Doesn't it suck anyway?

 

[RocketDarkness]

USC used to use PS3 Linux to teach Cell Programming. We couldn't access the graphics card, but we were still able to access all the cores and learn the concepts. I wonder if they've given up on the Cell, now that they're making an already unwieldy system less accessible?

 

[DCharlie]

wasn't the fact that it ran linux used to get a tax break in europe?

if it no longer runs it, will sony be liable for back tax?


This really doesn't affect my personal PS3 usage but, if it's not some crazy April Fool ruse, it sucks massively for those who DID use it. Not sure what there is to defend here, it's a sucky move.

 

[test_account]

Now that some people (or at least GeoHot) had started to being able to hack the PS3 a bit due to the use of the "Other OS" feature on the PS3, i think that it makes sense why Sony decides to remove this feature now. It definitely sucks for those who use "Other OS" on the PS3 for other reasons besides hacking the PS3 though, but if this "Other OS" feature makes it possible to play pirated games on the PS3, then i can see why Sony decides to remove this feature.

Does anyone here uses the "Other OS" feature on their PS3 by the way? Doesnt Linux run pretty slow on a PS3? I havnt tried it myself yet, but from the videos that i have seen, it didnt look like Linux ran particulary fast, at least compared to how Linux runs on a PC. It was maybe 2 years since i saw those videos though, so maybe Linux runs faster on a PS3 now. And is there any advantages for running Linux on a PS3 compared to running Linux on a PC? I know that the PS3 does calculations pretty well due to the Cell CPU, but for "private use" (or what i shall call it), are there any advantages?

The military and the universities etc. that uses PS3s for research and calculations, will they be affected by this PS3 firmware upgrade? I guess that the way that these PS3s are being used, they dont use PSN, so i guess that they dont need to do this firmware update, or am i mistaken?


Luckily for me, i have so to say no use for the "Other OS" feature, so this firmware update wont affect me I have had a PS3 for about 2 years now and i still havnt tried the "Other OS" feature, so i guess that the chances were pretty small that i would ever use the "Other OS" feature. If i should have tried it, then it would mostly likely only had been for fun, just to have tried it out and see how it works. I cant really think of any reasons why i need Linux on my PS3 at least.

Oh and to add to this; What's next: Firmware update 3.22: Removing PS2 backward compatibility from older PS3s?? :lol

Hehe, who knows? I guess that you are just kidding, but to answer seriously; unless the PS2 backward compability from older PS3s is a security risk (as using/exploiting the PS2 backward compability to hack the PS3), i dont think that Sony needs to remove the PS2 backward compability. I guess that the only reason for why Sony decides to remove the "Other OS" feature is because that it can be used to hack the PS3. This doesnt seem to be the case with the PS2 backward compability, so i dont think that Sony needs to remove this

 

[KillerAJD]

There's no reason this functionality would take up any memory when booted into the GameOS at all.

Even for the front end on the XMB? I realize it would probably be tiny, if anything, but maybe that's all they need? I mean, the obvious answer is Sony doesn't want a situation like the PSP to happen again, but it's nice to entertain the thought that there might be benefits to the us users at the same time, lol. Gah, who knows :/

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Guess I won't be updating my PS3 or purchasing anymore games for this piece of shit. If nothing happens with homebrew in the next few months I might just get rid of the thing. How much do barely used 60gb BC models go for now?

 

[hauton]

ouch

this is why we can't have nice things :/

 

[Ranger X]

I'm sorry you don't use the feature, but I've been doing my graduate research work on the CBE. I honestly won't be able to buy any more PSN games for the machine until I graduate.

There's bound to be someone affected but I am sorry to announced to you that you're of the few unlocky drop of water in the ocean. Couldn't you have your thing done on PC? (I know your research is started now but I can't really imagine a graduate work not doable for someone not owning a PS3)

.

 

[Speevy]

If nothing happens with homebrew in the next few months I might just get rid of the thing.

You must not like games.

 

[patsu]

wasn't the fact that it ran linux used to get a tax break in europe?

if it no longer runs it, will sony be liable for back tax?

I thought that line of thought is no longer valid. Law changed or something.

This really doesn't affect my personal PS3 usage but, if it's not some crazy April Fool ruse, it sucks massively for those who DID use it. Not sure what there is to defend here, it's a sucky move.

Not really. I see it as an inevitability once geohot's attack surfaced. I wouldn't want Sony to waste time with plugging holes here and there. I had a job like that for a few months. It's a waste of my time. I much rather do something more useful.