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[onQ123]

I stand by my assertion that's it's misleading. Not only would the camera have to occupy the same place, but all motion and animated effects would need to stop for the results to be literally identical. An Xbox 360 title doesn't "shift to native 4K" when the screen is completely black regardless of the fact that the upscaled results are indistinguishable from a native 4K black screen.

I believe everything else on the list has been asserted by someone involved with development as actually rendering to a native 4K frame buffer. When drawing a technical distinction accuracy matters.

Checkerboard rendering is not the same thing as up-scaling the rendering is just split up into smaller jobs , the final resolution is 4K.

You never see the smaller rendering jobs on the screen by themselves what reaches your eyes is the 4K final resolve of these smaller rendering tasks however it's done.

 

[Nostremitus]

Also 2k is not 1440p like it sounds some of you are saying.
2k is 1080p.

I think that was only me. I learned something new earlier in the thread right after I posted that. I suppose I should edit my post so that other people don't think that I'm still mistaken, lol.

 

[onQ123]

I think that was only me. I learned something new earlier in the thread right after I posted that. I suppose I should edit my post so that other people don't think that I'm still mistaken, lol.

You're not the only person who thought this way.

 

[Nostremitus]

You're not the only person who thought this way.

Oh, I must have scrolled past them.

 

[zoukka]

Checkerboard rendering is not the same thing as up-scaling the rendering is just split up into smaller jobs , the final resolution is 4K.

You never see the smaller rendering jobs on the screen by themselves what reaches your eyes is the 4K final resolve of these smaller rendering tasks however it's done.

But half of that 4k is approximation, not pixel perfect 4k.

 

[onQ123]

Oh, I must have scrolled past them.

Maybe in this thread but I was speaking in general

 

[ghibli99]

Hey two more titles in the list vs. the last time I looked at the OP. I'm pretty excited about the Pro's native 4K capabilities, although I do need to keep my expectations in check.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Checkerboard rendering is not the same thing as up-scaling...

It was an analogy. The whole point was to refute the assertion that if the results are identical then it's reasonable to call it by the wrong name, at least briefly. I'm also far from clear why you keep returning to this line of discussion when the OP has already amended the first post to eliminate the title in question.

... the rendering is just split up into smaller jobs , the final resolution is 4K.

It's not "a rendering" being split into smaller jobs. They are distinct frames with the potential for enough overlap in content to be worth preserving, as determined with enough spacial locality that artifacts can be minimized.

 

[Caayn]

But half of that 4k is approximation, not pixel perfect 4k.

Well technically, if you're standing completely still and absolutely nothing moves for multiple frames. You'll get a 4K screen, technically.

 

[zoukka]

Well technically, if you're standing completely still and absolutely nothing moves for multiple frames. You'll get a 4K screen, technically.

In other words: you'll never see a true 4k image

 

[Nostremitus]

In other words: you'll never see a true 4k image

The same can be said for streaming 4K, with such a low bitrate and compression you'll never see the proper 4K image.

Streaming "4K" bitrate ~15Mb/s
1080p Bluray ~25-50Mb/s
4K UHD Bluray ~100Mb/s

 

[Lady Gaia]

The same can be said for streaming 4K, with such a low bitrate and compression you'll never see the proper 4K image.

You never get the true 4K source content with any lossy compression regardless of bitrate. So it's all a question of how close an approximation is good enough.

I haven't measured bitrate for a NetFlix 4K stream on a connection with sufficient headroom but the 1080p stream we were watching last night was chewing up 10-12Mb/sec. Streaming sites will dynamically scale the quality of your stream to match your available, reliable bandwidth.

 

[Nostremitus]

You never get the true 4K source content with any lossy compression regardless of bitrate. So it's all a question of how close an approximation is good enough.

I haven't measured bitrate for a NetFlix 4K stream on a connection with sufficient headroom but the 1080p stream we were watching last night was chewing up 10-12Mb/sec. Streaming sites will dynamically scale the quality of your stream to match your available, reliable bandwidth.

Went looking, I found one site that guessed that Netflix's bitrate may increase to 18Mb/s with the addition of HDR10 or Dolby Vision.

Honestly, I have a 100Mb/s connection and 1080p Bluray looks cleaner than Netflix 4K on my TV. Compression artifacts make anything look worse.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I haven't measured bitrate for a NetFlix 4K stream on a connection with sufficient headroom but the 1080p stream we were watching last night was chewing up 10-12Mb/sec.

That is not "chewing up" bandwidth, for video that's a dripfeed. Which is not to say that I don't also settle for the mediocre results our pansy internet infrastructure brings. For mass entertainment, things have improved--even Youtube is (usually) better than VHS.

But in a filmophile context, streaming is pathetic, even at its best. Twenty-five years ago I did editing in a D-1 production path, which Wikipedia tells me had a 173 Mb/s bandwidth. And that was for SD content!

Yes, today's advanced compression can shrink those numbers without any human being able to tell the difference, including me. But asking them to achieve an 80-fold reduction without degrading the image is a fool's errand.

It's too easy for people to forget just how much better good physical media is than digital. This is important for a lasting archive of our popular arts. Internet video from 15 years ago is generally more poorly preserved than home movies shot 80 years ago.

Whew. Sorry about that, wasn't really directed at you. Old man yells at cloud.

 

[zoukka]

The same can be said for streaming 4K, with such a low bitrate and compression you'll never see the proper 4K image.

Streaming "4K" bitrate ~15Mb/s
1080p Bluray ~25-50Mb/s
4K UHD Bluray ~100Mb/s

This is true.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Also 2k is not 1440p like it sounds some of you are saying.
2k is 1080p.

2K in computer/video standards actually means 2*1024 = 2048 horizontal pixels

so with a 16:9 ratio it would translate to: 2048x1152

They decided to use 4K because it sounds better for marketing but actually 4K means 4096 horizontal pixels (1024*4)

 

[Lady Gaia]

Twenty-five years ago I did editing in a D-1 production path, which Wikipedia tells me had a 173 Mb/s bandwidth. And that was for SD content!

Lossless representations can make sense when authoring content but consumption is a different story. We've learned a lot in 25 years about visual perception and how to take advantage of its limitations. We've also bumped the resolution of content pretty markedly, so that small deviations from source material are much less apparent. Current streaming rates are far from perfect but they're at least tolerable for casual consumption and they're only going to get better.

The point of my original response was to observe that the bitrates being cited for 4K streaming were actually closer to what's being used for 1080p content. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already double what was described earlier in the thread, and only going to increase from there.

 

[Dovahking]

Thumper will render at native 4K.

“Thumper will support PS4 Pro from day one. We’ve worked hard to perfect Thumper’s graphics tech and the extra power lets us push our original vision even further. On PS4 Pro, Thumper will render at up to 4K resolution (With no upscaling!) for the ultimate high-gloss HD experience. PS4 Pro also enhances the VR rendering quality while maintaining the same rock-solid 90 frames-per-second. We’ll have more details on our PS4 Pro support soon!”

 

[AmyS]

So, PS4 Pro doesn't have UHD Blu-ray, check. Netflix "4K" streaming isn't really native 4K at all, check.

What other options are there for watching movies / shows / videos?

The PS4 Pro YouTube App, right?

 

[5taquitos]

Thumper will render at native 4K.

Awesome, hope they push HDR as well, it could be amazing in a game like this.

 

[bennibop]

Hustle kings has just been updated and now supports native 4k.

 

[Jack cw]

So, PS4 Pro doesn't have UHD Blu-ray, check. Netflix "4K" streaming isn't really native 4K at all, check.

What other options are there for watching movies / shows / videos?

The PS4 Pro YouTube App, right?

Basically ever major sports event and leagues will be broadcast in 4k, it already started with Olympics and football World Cup. Sports is what carries 4k at the moment.

Pay TV is also going 4k, yet 90% is upscaled 2k content with shitty bitrate and artifacts. Same with UHD Blu Ray. Most movies still uses 2k assets and especially the rendering resolution of the sfx are in 2k. Even with HDR, the difference between a standard BR and UHD BR is rather small, compared to the jump from SD to HD. True and original 4k content with acceptable quality might come if UHD BR actually starts selling, which it doesn't and there is no trojan horse ala PS2 and PS3 for the other disc formats. 4k BR might end like 3D and the only way to get 4k content is via streaming.

 

[onQ123]

So, PS4 Pro doesn't have UHD Blu-ray, check. Netflix "4K" streaming isn't really native 4K at all, check.

What other options are there for watching movies / shows / videos?

The PS4 Pro YouTube App, right?

Yes it is, 4K is a resolution not a quality setting. just because they encode it to a smaller file size to be streamed does not change it from being 4K.

 

[Miggytronz]

So, PS4 Pro doesn't have UHD Blu-ray, check. Netflix "4K" streaming isn't really native 4K at all, check.

What other options are there for watching movies / shows / videos?

The PS4 Pro YouTube App, right?

Chromecast Ultra will solve all your needs. Just use the PRO to game. That's what I'll be doing.

 

[Planet]

movies / shows / videos?

I suggest trying to read the thread title again. Good luck this time!

 

[ghibli99]

Thumper will render at native 4K.

Niiiice. I don't think I could handle this game in VR anyway. LOL

 

[Nags]

Thumper will render at native 4K.

Oh man... The temptation to buy a 4K display is getting to me.

 

[Rain City Gamer]

I think Thumper can be added to this list.

"On PS4 Pro, Thumper will render at up to 4K resolution (With no upscaling!) for the ultimate high-gloss HD experience. PS4 Pro also enhances the VR rendering quality while maintaining the same rock-solid 90 frames-per-second."

Guessing that is native?

EDIT: ninja'd!

 

[onQ123]

I have a crazy feeling that Rise of the Tomb Raider is actually 4K native.


having the different modes mean that they can give you the better graphics at 1080P so no one can say that the Pro version look worse than the PS4 version when they make small short cuts to push the game to 4K.


Checkerboard rendering seem like something they would use as a middle ground to give you better graphics plus 4K.

 

[MisterXDTV]

So, PS4 Pro doesn't have UHD Blu-ray, check. Netflix "4K" streaming isn't really native 4K at all, check.

What other options are there for watching movies / shows / videos?

The PS4 Pro YouTube App, right?

At launch yes, then they will probably add their own 4K Store "Sony Ultra":

http://4k.com/news/sonys-ultra-the-...he-market-went-live-today-with-a-catch-13411/

Once Vudu starts supporting HDR10, they will add that too...

That basically would cover all your 4K streaming needs....

And yes Netflix, offers true 4K for their content

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Hustle kings has just been updated and now supports native 4k.

Have you got a link to that?

 

[Dusktildawn48]

I'm sure this has been asked a lot so I'm sorry to ask again, but with the last of us look better on a 1080 tv? Or is it just the res knocked up?

 

[ghibli99]

Edit: Wrong game

 

[Vashetti]

I'm sure this has been asked a lot so I'm sorry to ask again, but with the last of us look better on a 1080 tv? Or is it just the res knocked up?

The better shadows you get in the current 30fps mode will now work at 60fps, that's all we know at the moment.

 

[AmuroChan]

I'm sure this has been asked a lot so I'm sorry to ask again, but with the last of us look better on a 1080 tv? Or is it just the res knocked up?

I would imagine so, but we should probably wait until ND releases the full patch notes of what the enhancements will be.

 

[Ambient80]

Didn't Infinity Ward have an entire part of the PS4 Pro reveal saying it was gonna be 4K? Or were they talking about upscaling only and not native?

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

2160p isn't native 4K anyway because 2160p = 3840 x 2160 while native 4K = 4096 x 2160. Saying that UHD TVs and games running in 2160p are native 4K is just a way to promote them.

Yes it is Native. The difference is that 4096x2160 is a cinema standard while 3840x2160 is consumer display standard.

It's like the difference between 2048×1080 and 1920x1080.

 

[TAJ]

You never get the true 4K source content with any lossy compression regardless of bitrate. So it's all a question of how close an approximation is good enough.

I haven't measured bitrate for a NetFlix 4K stream on a connection with sufficient headroom but the 1080p stream we were watching last night was chewing up 10-12Mb/sec. Streaming sites will dynamically scale the quality of your stream to match your available, reliable bandwidth.

Best-case scenario for Netflix 1080p is currently 4640kbps.
I haven't seen recent numbers for 4K but it used to be 15.6 Mbps.

 

[RoboPlato]

Didn't Infinity Ward have an entire part of the PS4 Pro reveal saying it was gonna be 4K? Or were they talking about upscaling only and not native?

It's checkerboard 4k

 

[Planet]

Have you got a link to that?

It says so in the latest update (1.15) of you check the history on PS4.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I bet Bioshock collection could be native. The 1st one atleast. Would it be possible?

 

[00ich]

But half of that 4k is approximation, not pixel perfect 4k.

An approximation that is quite good to begin with and improves over time.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Is there really going to be a big difference in checkerboard vs native? Or is it going to look exactly the same?

 

[onQ123]

Is there really going to be a big difference in checkerboard vs native? Or is it going to look exactly the same?

Checkerboard rendered games will most likely look better as far as graphical effects go vs turning down the level of details to reach native 4K.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

PS Blog reconfirms ESO being native 4K on PS4 PRO in the latest update: https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...anyone-thanks-to-elder-scrolls-online-update/

I don't know if this update will add the PS4 PRO support early like with Deus Ex Mankind Divided or we should wait till the release of the console.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Hustle kings has just been updated and now supports native 4k.

It says so in the latest update (1.15) of you check the history on PS4.

Can anyone provide a screen grab of the update with that line so I can upgrade the OP? Whenevr there is a new game supported, I want to add a link to a post before updating the OP. Thanks.

P.S: Whenever you find about a new game and post about it here, please write it in bold and underline it so I can spot it easily in your posts. And don't forget the source of the news. Thanks.

 

[Gitaroo]

I hope The journey gets patch with 4K and HDR and restore those missing effects.

 

[Vashetti]

I hope The journey gets patch with 4K and HDR and restore those missing effects.

?

 

[Lady Gaia]

Checkerboard rendered games will most likely look better as far as graphical effects go vs turning down the level of details to reach native 4K.

It's nice to know there's something we agree on. Games that have a very simple rendering strategy that doesn't tax the hardware may opt for 4K just because it's an easy talking point, but given infinite time and budget I think the sweet spot is going to use checkerboard rendering with more sophisticated materials shading and effects. You almost certainly gain more than you lose in terms of visual appeal this way.

 

[DJ Lushious]

Without counting the extra graphical features that the PS4 PRO version will include.
i.e: ROTTR will have 3 modes:
- 4K@30FPS checkerboard equivalent of high settings.
-1080p with unlocked FPS.
-1080p@30FPS with the maximum details.

I would choose the last mode even if I am able to play in 4K.

I'm right alongside with ya. Though I will certainly flip through the other two just for curiosity's sake. ;-)