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[thuway]

3TF GPU !!!11!... .

>.< Don't blame me for dreaming mang. I want both of these machines to be nothing short of beasts.

 

[Lord Error]

If they both end up having something like 7700 in there, it won't matter if one of them is a 'supercomputer" or whatever. 7700 won't be much by late 2013 standards, that's for sure.

 

[segarr]

I think you should go back and re-read some of the older stuff I've posted. I've always said one thing, Sony is behind. In fact, I messaged BG before with the same notion if he's hearing the same thing, and he agreed with me.

Than again, GRAIN MEET SALT. This is all pure speculation, and nothing else. The idea of Sony launching later with inferior hardware is kind of silly. If MS were to launch later, I honestly believe they would take the extra time to target a higher performance out of the box as well.

I mean I have seen no where that Sony is desperate to be the most powerful so they can have the best multiplatform ports. That came out of nowhere to me

Edit: I personally wouldn't have put it like GB, saying you have no knowledge and I don't buy into double standards. I was too lazy to write up my own post at the time though

 

[thuway]

If they both end up having something like 7700 in there, it won't matter if one of them is a 'supercomputer" or whatever. 7700 won't be much by late 2013 standards, that's for sure.

Honestly a 7700 is nothing really to write home about. I highly doubt they are going to target that. Pitcairn at the very least.

 

[thuway]

I mean I have seen no where that Sony is desperate to be the most powerful so they can have the best multiplatform ports. That came out of nowhere to me

Have you seen the bullshit they've faced this generation from the likes of Bethesda, Rockstar, and Treyarch? The biggest fail of all was the Ghostbuster's PS3 title running on a engine designed around the PS3 with an abysmal performance compared to the 360. They do not want the same mistake again.

 

[offshore]

Sony will do the wait and see approach. Bank on it.

IMO Sony should be doing the very opposite and announcing ASAP. Hanging back so they can go scrambling trying to put what the other box has into PS4 makes little sense. That is unless they want PS4 to turn out like PS3 again. It would also make Sony look insecure and not confident about what they've got.

Ofc if they're far behind then there probably isn't much they can do. But then you'd have to ask why they're behind in the first place, when they've had so much time to prepare for next gen.

 

[Elios83]

The PS3 was a catastrophe of monumental proportions and we do not need to go down that road again. Economies of scale, large chip sizes, and foreign technology caused it to almost implode the PlayStation market.

Waiting for 2014, or six more months insures that whoever launches will be in a brand new architecture.

6 months is not enough for that because consoles don't use state of the art manufacturing technologies being intended for mass production, PS3 tried with Blu Ray and it didn't end well. They would need a 1 year delay and it won't happen.
Being more powerful is not what matters to sales, it has been proven multiple times.
Sony's main goals will be having a competitive product with the next Xbox so that all the third parties games can run on par and flawlessly, not conceding any ground to market to MS especially in the US market, launching at a base price not higher than 399$ without losing money.
Those are the things that matter, not having a system much more powerful and then fail to sell it.

 

[segarr]

Have you seen the bullshit they've faced this generation from the likes of Bethesda, Rockstar, and Treyarch? The biggest fail of all was the Ghostbuster's PS3 title running on a engine designed around the PS3 with an abysmal performance compared to the 360. They do not want the same mistake again.

Yeah, that's why I expect much more dev friendly hardware and tools. "More power" seems unnecessary though. I think they should just aim for parity

Edit: That seems to be what devs want too. Parity is in their best interests I think. I've skipped games because the PS3 version just wasn't up to snuff and I doubt they want that happening

 

[ElFly]

I sort of disagree with the logic here.

Investors won't care about minor spec advantages or disadvantages. I think if anything investors would be FAR more concerned about any significant headstart a competitor might have.

The only way investors would care about spec is if the product failed to generate buzz with the target market. By the sounds of it - if this rumour was true - the perf differences won't be particularly large. If either system is coming in a relatively small bit either side of the other, and the spec in the OP is a rough guideline as to what to expect (albeit with more RAM, hopefully), I think both will be enough to deliver very impressive software. And that's what people will be looking at - is this a 'next-gen' machine, does it deliver a jump, is the software exciting etc. etc. If investors are satisfied that people have welcomed a system as desirable, they will be happy about the spec.

Well it depends.

If one of the machines ends up with less of some spec that people instantly recognize -the obvious target here would be RAM- than the other, that could generate some bad press that could end up affecting investors.

Everyone knows that more RAM = better. People, even enthusiasts here don't get the subtleties in that area, so it could be perceived as a weakness for one of the console makers.

 

[Shikoro]

Grain meet salt. After the stupid amount of people on GAF in the PSABR thread pretending to be someone, I find any information like this highly suspect. Lawsuit bonanza would be going on if any of the information he told you is true.

What I know is Sony is WAY behind. Spec's haven't been finalized, and they want to explicitly be more powerful than Durango to insure multiplatform ease and superior ports.

This fantasy portrait of Sony launching later with weaker specs is a hilarious suggestion.

Agree.

I bet my left nut that Sony won't have a 7xxx GPU, and Microsoft probably too. The die shrinks of the components would make it a $300 console by the end of 2013 and we all know that's not going to happen. Things sure are going to be interesting.

Also, what his friend means by more powerful, I bet he's referring to the amount of RAM. And MS' going to have a lot of it.

 

[RaijinFY]

If they both end up having something like 7700 in there, it won't matter if one of them is a 'supercomputer" or whatever. 7700 won't be much by late 2013 standards, that's for sure.

Boy if it's a 7700...

 

[phosphor112]

Have you seen the bullshit they've faced this generation from the likes of Bethesda, Rockstar, and Treyarch? The biggest fail of all was the Ghostbuster's PS3 title running on a engine designed around the PS3 with an abysmal performance compared to the 360. They do not want the same mistake again.

That same mistake wont happen regardless. Computer architectures are going in one direction on AMD's end, and oddly enough, it's very similar to the Cell (as in parallel). They'll be working with the same things for both companies, but working with some distinct differences between the two. Having the more powerful of the two will result in better 3rd party multiplats. There is no way to look at it differently.

 

[jeff_rigby]

That same mistake wont happen regardless. Computer architectures are going in one direction on AMD's end, and oddly enough, it's very similar to the Cell (as in parallel). They'll be working with the same things for both companies, but working with some distinct differences between the two. Having the more powerful of the two will result in better 3rd party multiplats. There is no way to look at it differently.

I think the differences between the two will not be game related. Remember there is a strong rumor that the Xbox 720 will have multiple SKUs and work as a Cable box DRV/ecosystem server in addition to a game console. Sony appears to be supporting the Home ecosystem with the NASNE.

We've gone over this in the Xbox thread and touched on it in other threads.

 

[AmFreak]

Whoever launches later, Sony or MS, will have this advantage. Both cannot be targeting the same time frame. I predict a six month window in between launches. Both systems will be virtually sold out for the first year regardless.

This is the big gamble. Do you wait 6 months for things to cheapen up and insure yourself better third party development? Or do you launch first, reap early adopters, and have a headstart?

6 months probably wouldn't "cheapen up" anything. Die shrinks don't happen every 6 months so they would be on the same process technology and likely with the same graphics tech. Even if they were lucky and could get the next gen graphics tech, that would mean what? 20-30% increased power? That's like nothing. I also don't get the "better third party development", we saw what happened with 3rd party development if you launch later with the ps3. You are underestimating the huge amount it costed them to launch 1 year later then Ms. We would look at a much much different market situation if the reverse had happened.

 

[Mindlog]

Yeah I'll never understand the healthy skepticism for some things yet crazy optimism for fab schedules. Fab schedules!

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

7700?! Meh. Very disappointing.

 

[DieH@rd]

7700?! Meh. Very disappointing.

Nobody knows yet what will be in them, relax. All we know from unconfirmed sources is that modified 7xxx series will be used.

 

[Reiko]

Remember when the Xbox was more powerful?

We still had games from Sony that looked like this.

Leave it to the devs to craft something truly amazing. Power helps, but dev creativity speaks for itself.

 

[gofreak]

Nobody knows yet what will be in them, relax. All we know from unconfirmed sources is that modified 7xxx series will be used.

OP rumour would be >7850. Slightly more shader power and a good chunk more bandwidth. So, fingers crossed, believe, etc.

 

[Shabutaro]

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but im really computer illiterate it seems. Does flash mean RAM in this case?

 

[McHuj]

Transistor count or die size would tell us a lot about both solutions.

 

[KageMaru]

Whoever launches later, Sony or MS, will have this advantage. Both cannot be targeting the same time frame. I predict a six month window in between launches. Both systems will be virtually sold out for the first year regardless.

This is the big gamble. Do you wait 6 months for things to cheapen up and insure yourself better third party development? Or do you launch first, reap early adopters, and have a headstart?

Console development doesn't really work like that. A 6 month gap is unlikely to offer any notable increase in performance. It's not like they will still be changing specs at that point of the console's development.

Hardware next gen will be close enough IMO, whoever provides the better tools will likely see the better results.

 

[disap.ed]

What does "Raytracer" even mean in this context?
Also, nobody would put RAM for 100$ in there (see no reason for using not even released DDR4 either).

 

[Reiko]

Console development doesn't really work like that. A 6 month gap is unlikely to offer any notable increase in performance. It's not like they will still be changing specs at that point of the console's development.

Hardware next gen will be close enough IMO, whoever provides the better tools will likely see the better results.

It's like today's gamers forgot how Sony originally won over developers in the first place that led to their success.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It's like today's gamers forgot how Sony originally won over developers in the first place that led to their success.

Yeah but that was also thanks to better hardware also look at PS1 .
Sony really mess up with PS3 big time along with other factors that happen .

 

[RaijinFY]

It's like today's gamers forgot how Sony originally won over developers in the first place that led to their success.

lulz, you do realize the PS2 was a nightmare to program for?
Also the pic you have showed came from a ex-developer (OK that's provocative) at a time when japanese dev community was flamboyant on consoles... exactly the contrary of today. Very different context.

 

[Reiko]

Yeah but that was also thanks to better hardware also look at PS1 .

Arguably the Sega Saturn was more like the PS2 & PS3 (Difficult to program for) and look where it got them.

lulz, you do realize the PS2 was a nightmare to program for?
Also the pic you have showed came from a ex-developer (OK that's provocative) at a time when japanese dev community was flamboyant on consoles... exactly the contrary of today. Very different context.

Sony was in the lead and by that point, if you wanted to be successful... You develop for the PS2. Sony tried that again with the PS3 and it didn't work out so well.

 

[KageMaru]

Yeah but that was also thanks to better hardware also look at PS1 .
Sony really mess up with PS3 big time along with other factors that happen .

IMO it's hard to say the PS1 hardware was really better than the N64 but it still enjoyed more support thanks to better tools and a well balanced system.

 

[dragonelite]

Sony was in the lead and by that point, if you wanted to be successful... You develop for the PS2. Sony tried that again with the PS3 and it didn't work out so well.

Too cocky after 2 gens of win.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

IMO it's hard to say the PS1 hardware was really better than the N64 but it still enjoyed more support thanks to better tools and a well balanced system.

yeah that's what i mean it was the much better balanced system compare to N64 and Sega Saturn .
Better tools along with stuff like CD drive and okay power compare to both systems .

 

[Proelite]

falls right in line with the rumors I've heard about the chips being the same I can't find all the links right now but I kept this screen cap of one of the rumors.

Not correct.

If MS and Sony ends up with the same hardware like in the above quote, AMD will be in BIG trouble.

And ray tracer is nothing more than a fantasy.

 

[KageMaru]

yeah that's what i mean it was the much better balanced system compare to N64 and Sega Saturn .
Better tools along with stuff like CD drive and okay power compare to both systems .

True.

The current topic was about system performance and it seems some people are worried which system will be more powerful. My point is that both will likely be very very similar and it will come down to the tools instead of how powerful the specs look on paper.

 

[amstradcpc]

I suppose it is something like:
Ms: 8 jaguar cores + 7750 gpu with EDRAM + 8 gb of DDR4
Sony: 4 jaguar cores with shaders (APU) + 7850 + 4gb Gddr5

 

[gundamkyoukai]

True.

The current topic was about system performance and it seems some people are worried which system will be more powerful. My point is that both will likely be very very similar and it will come down to the tools instead of how powerful the specs look on paper.

Well they are a few factors which would make one system more powerful than the next that it could matter .

1. How much both MS and Sony willing to spend on there system . ( who willing to lose the most )
2 . Time of release ( 9 plus months afterwards )
3. One of them do some tech break threw .

I don't see any of them happening so it should come down to who has the better tools and dev preference .
So i do agree with what you are saying unless something strange happens .

 

[RaijinFY]

Not correct.

If MS and Sony ends up with the same hardware like in the above quote, AMD will be in BIG trouble.

And ray tracer is nothing more than a fantasy.

Do you have your sources or are you just speculating?

 

[yon61]

Well they are a few factors which would make one system more powerful than the next that it could matter .

1. How much both MS and Sony willing to spend on there system . ( who willing to lose the most )
2 . Time of release ( 9 plus months afterwards )
3. One of them do some tech break threw .

I don't see any of them happening so it should come down to who has the better tools and dev preference .
So i do agree with what you are saying unless something strange happens .

Unlike Sony, Microsoft have the money to burn and are in a prime position to hit Sony hard. A new Xbox with more powerful hardware whilst releasing earlier would be a real blow to the PS4.

 

[phosphor112]

Console development doesn't really work like that. A 6 month gap is unlikely to offer any notable increase in performance. It's not like they will still be changing specs at that point of the console's development.

Hardware next gen will be close enough IMO, whoever provides the better tools will likely see the better results.

It might allow for a chip with better yields. With time, comes maturity, and that statement couldn't be any more true for technology.

 

[onQ123]

Not correct.

If MS and Sony ends up with the same hardware like in the above quote, AMD will be in BIG trouble.

And ray tracer is nothing more than a fantasy.

The way I read it he was only using the Ray Tracer as a example for the pricing of the hardware.

 

[Proelite]

Do you have your sources or are you just speculating?

I am not speculating.

 

[SniperHunter]

PS4 sounds weak compared to the nextbox....as a PS fan, this news is really disappointing

 

[phosphor112]

PS4 sounds weak compared to the nextbox....as a PS fan, this news is really disappointing

There is no indication of this. New xbox is supposed to have more ram, but it's supposed to do more at once, and requires more memory for things like kinect. A "Kinect 2" would require much more ram than what we have now.

 

[StevieP]

PS4 sounds weak compared to the nextbox....as a PS fan, this news is really disappointing

The xbox has more 'stuff' inside. Doesn't mean the games won't be similar enough.

 

[SniperHunter]

I hope you guys are right but this isn't very reassuring. I just don't want substandard ports the next time around, I have missed out on too many good games that only ran well on Xbox 360. Nextbox having more ram might be a big hindrance when it comes to porting games.

 

[Reiko]

Oh please!! Does anyone actually believe this??

Of course not. Sony has infinite money to throw around.

I hope you guys are right but this isn't very reassuring. I just don't want substandard ports the next time around, I have missed out on too many good games that only ran well on Xbox 360. Nextbox having more ram might be a big hindrance when it comes to porting games.

If it's like PC development... They just port down.

PC->720->PS4

 

[coldfoot]

PS4 sounds weak compared to the nextbox....as a PS fan, this news is really disappointing

If anything, it looks like the reverse of this gen where Sony will get a weaker CPU but a more powerful GPU. I'm also sure that developers would prefer a 4GB pool of fast GDDR5 memory over an EDRAM + slow DDR setup.

 

[phosphor112]

Oh please!! Does anyone actually believe this?? You disappoint me NeoGAF

Please fill us in.

I hope you guys are right but this isn't very reassuring. I just don't want substandard ports the next time around, I have missed out on too many good games that only ran well on Xbox 360. Nextbox having more ram might be a big hindrance when it comes to porting games.

Part of the nextbox is having ram for all of its extra features like streaming and kinect and stuff, not for better games. They have "QoS" patent that pretty much talks about making sure there is enough power and resources for those extra features at all time, even while playing "AAA games."

 

[Racer30]

Please fill us in.

"I know a guy who knows everything about this and that bla bla" You guys are too naive! Sorry, had to be said.

 

[Proelite]

Oh please!! Does anyone actually believe this?? You disappoint me NeoGAF

This guy is legit. There is a reason no one has second guessed him so far with the exception of thyself.

 

[bigtroyjon]

"I know a guy who knows everything about this and that bla bla" You guys are too naive! Sorry, had to be said.

Please let us know how the previous information he has given us is incorrect.

 

[Racer30]

This guy is legit. There is a reason no one has second guessed him so far with the exception of thyself.

Ok, show me the evidence.