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[Lord Error]

Ya even if the PS4 has a slightly faster GPU that doesn't make up for a full 2 gigs or hell even 1 gig of memory. Especially as it seems thats one of the first issues with consoles is the ram

Yes, but if Xbox has 4GB DDR3 + 2GB GDDR5, and PS4 ends up with 4GB GDDR5, things wouldn't be cut and dry in that difference at all anymore.

I really doubt 8GB for XBox though. Even if devkit has that much, it's typical for devkit to have a lot more RAM (usually double) than what consumer hardware ends up with.

4GB is already a LOT when you think how long it would take to fill that up with a game loading from a disc.

 

[Death Dealer]

I like more console oriented designs than what I've read of Durango.

I haven't kept up on the Durango rumors at all. What is the latest rumored specs ? I remember a rumor from a while ago that X720 had more memory than PS4.

 

[mujun]

Let's say these specs are true and when the machine hits it's more powerful than a newly released console is on release, are devs even ready to do anything that comes close to utilizing that much power? Sounds like a whole lot of extra work in terms of assets to me. I suppose they could make a jump in the amount of assets, textures, etc and then use the extra power to get frame rates up, apply anti aliasing, etc.

 

[USC-fan]

So does this still put the Wii U as a DC/PS2 vs Xbox type situation in terms of power difference?

No like Xbox vs Xbox 360 in terms of power.

 

[Karak]

Yes, but if Xbox has 4GB DDR3 + 2GB GDDR5, and PS4 ends up with 4GB GDDR5, things wouldn't be cut and dry in that difference at all anymore.

I really doubt 8GB for XBox though. Even if devkit has that much, it's typical for devkit to have a lot more RAM (usually double) than what consumer hardware ends up with.

4GB is already a LOT when you think how long it would take to fill that up with a game loading from a disc.

True but its still a very noticeable and exploitable difference despite the speed difference. I am also assuming 8 won't happen but 4, or 6 in some configuration is doable. Then again 8 is doable say if MS decided to offset that cost by their purchasing plans or some other unique MS only system. I am assuming MS only because I think they are the only 1 of the 2 that can front that kind of cash by taking on debt. Not that this rumour has any more credence than any others. But still. Interesting stuff!
EDIT: Also is Durango rumoured to now have a split 6. The last thing I read was 8 or 4.

 

[Death Dealer]

Yes, but if Xbox has 4GB DDR3 + 2GB GDDR5, and PS4 ends up with 4GB GDDR5, things wouldn't be cut and dry in that difference at all anymore.

I really doubt 8GB for XBox though. Even if devkit has that much, it's typical for devkit to have a lot more RAM (usually double) than what consumer hardware ends up with.

4GB is already a LOT when you think how long it would take to fill that up with a game loading from a disc.

8GB would be insanely wasteful in a game console. There really isn't a need for that much ram unless it's trying to become a full blown PC replacement. I think 4GB is quite generous and developers, Crytek be damned, would be jumping through hoops. But you can't just look at one number, you need to know the rest of the memory specs.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

what was the top tier AMD video card this time last year? how much does it cost now? how much of that is overhead because they're cheaper to make now?

a 7970 in a late-2013 or early-2014 PS4 could cost beans to make. i don't know what beans means, i just thought it sounded cool to say.

 

[Lord Error]

True but its still a very noticeable and exploitable difference despite the speed difference.

Speed difference would be exploitable too, perhaps even more so on a console. That's why I said that.

Of course, it's all hypothetical, as PS4 as of now is said to have just 2GB, and devs are pushing to change that, but that's the spec right now.

 

[bounchfx]

7970 would be absolutely amazing. That's top of the line today.

I want top of the line for 2014

 

[def sim]

I want top of the line for 2014

Build a PC!

 

[Apocryphon]

I was just about to respond Majik's post, but this is correct. It's supposed to have 18CUs.

So a 7790 then...

 

[skynidas]

I trust in you Sony, make the PS4 a fucking beast, my price limit is 599 dollars.

 

[Globox_82]

Make it 4 gb and its day one

 

[Elios83]

Ya even if the PS4 has a slightly faster GPU that doesn't make up for a full 2 gigs or hell even 1 gig of memory. Especially as it seems thats one of the first issues with consoles is the ram

Microsoft is considering 2GB as well, developers like Epic and Crytek are trying to convince them to up the quantity to 4GB. Same thing for Sony.
I hope that both will go with 4GB because it can make a significant difference.
In any case you can bet that PS4 and Xbox next will be basically identical hardware wise.
They will be out together, their chips are designed by the same companies, they will have similar if not the same prices.
Although they're never going to tell this publicly, both the companies have a considerable interest in creating a common ecosystem for multiplatform development. If developers can make the same games for more platforms it automatically means more support because the higher cumulative installed base can justify the investement to make high quality games.
So you won't see one with a GPU a generation ahead but half the memory or viceversa (which is something that doesn't even make sense, power must be balanced to be effective).
Differences will be made by first party games, online and non-gaming services, controls.

 

[Karak]

Speed difference would be exploitable too, perhaps even more so on a console. That's why I said that.

Of course, it's all hypothetical, as PS4 as of now is said to have just 2GB, and devs are pushing to change that, but that's the spec right now.

It would but, at least from what I have been reading. There are more use for more slower ram then quicker half sized ram at these speeds. Could be wrong though

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Hotdamn a 7970 is a beast. It's AMD top of the line single GPU set-up and goes for over $450. In a closed system, it would be an absolute monster!

 

[Karak]

Microsoft is considering 2GB as well, developers like Epic and Crytek are trying to convince them to up the quantity to 4GB. Same thing for Sony.
I hope that both will go with 4GB because it can make a significant difference.
In any case you can bet that PS4 and Xbox next will be basically identical hardware wise.
They will be out together, their chips are designed by the same companies, they will have similar if not the same prices.
Although they're never going to tell this publicly, both the companies have a considerable interest in creating a common ecosystem for multiplatform development. If developers can make the same games for more platforms it automatically means more support because the higher cumulative installed base can justify the investement to make high quality games.
So you won't see one with a GPU a generation ahead but half the memory or viceversa (which is something that doesn't even make sense, power must be balanced to be effective).
Differences will be made by first party games, online and non-gaming services, controls.

The bolded is not correct. Even from people who worked at both companies later and weren't even in the industry who commented on the systems creations. Developers also including EPIC have made it clear that much of the ecosystem is done separately. There is obviously a cost parity they would desire which many times brings technical specs into a certain sphere, but directly from the horses mouths that is not what they shoot for.

Also since in the past they released at largely different prices I don't see any reason why they would shoot for parity there either. But who knows its all up in the air of course. Like the above sample with EPIC, things can change at a late stage for sure.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

No like Xbox vs Xbox 360 in terms of power.

M2 vs Dreamcast.

 

[Brad Grenz]

So a 7790 then...

Is the 7790 even a thing? Where does the model number come from? 18CUs is more than a 7850 has, so why would you label it with a smaller model number?

 

[Pistolero]

Going by all the rumours we have the PS4 will be quite the powerful machine but will fall short of Durango...Hum, as long as it is not a day and night difference and that those amazing first party developers get enough room to flex their legs, consider me more than satisfied!

 

[Radec]

How much more powerful than Wii U.

Wii U is like a '11 Lancer Evo while this is a Lamborghini Aventador.

If they chose the Nvidia's 680, it'll be a Veyron.

 

[Death Dealer]

So you won't see one with a GPU a generation ahead but half the memory or viceversa (which is something that doesn't even make sense, power must be balanced to be effective).

Not a generation, but depending on the budget allocation, I think one GPU could be as much as 50% faster than the other. For example if the PS4 is 1.8 TFLOPs and X720 is 1.2 TFLOPs. That's actually a larger difference than PS3 vs X360, but it's still not enough to make a big difference in terms of multi-platform development. Or vice vs if X720 has like a 2.7 TFLOP monster. They will have the same assets. There would be only small differences, like native resolution, and frame rate, certainly not like comparing a Wii-U game to either.

 

[Karak]

Going by all the rumours we have the PS4 will be quite the powerful machine but will fall short of Durango...Hum, as long as it is not a day and night difference and that those amazing first party developers get enough room to flex their legs, consider me more than satisfied!

Thats a super good point. The floor of these appear to be a better jump than we thought in the past. So the devs will have a good deal to play with.

Though it sounds like AMD always has chip delay problems and so forth. That worries me for both.

I also wouldn't put it past either company to plan 2 systems with some variations to try to 1up the other. Each in prep for the competition to announce their specs or a real leak to occur.

 

[Norml]

So the APU is close to 1 teraflop and the GPU is 1.8??

around 2.5 seems like a good target

 

[Lulubop]

Not a 7970, topic title is misleading.

 

[EricDiesel]

And now to go through the same guessing game for another console, leading to inevitable disappointment. This should be fun!

 

[demigod]

Yeah, right now a 7970 is around $500 ALONE.

You are forgetting that the X1900 was around $500 and that card was close to top of the line at the time. By next year, the 7970 will not be top of the line.

I can believe that they'll use a modified 7970, I doubt they'll put anything lower than a 6870 in their machine.

 

[Elios83]

Not a generation, but depending on the budget allocation, I think one GPU could be as much as 50% faster than the other. For example if the PS4 is 1.8 TFLOPs and X720 is 1.2 TFLOPs. That's actually a larger difference than PS3 vs X360, but it's still not enough to make a big difference in terms of multi-platform development. Or vice vs if X720 has like a 2.7 TFLOP monster. They will have the same assets. There would be only small differences, like native resolution, and frame rate, certainly not like comparing a Wii-U game to either.

The main factor which affects these things is price versus added value. Nothing else.
You have to consider that this round both companies won't make their components in house, they will buy whatever the market has to offer which allows for the best compromise between specs and price. They're both customers under equal conditions.
Specs will be almost equal and so will be the price.
You won't see one with the shitty GPU coupled with huge amounts of RAM or the other with the the top of the line GPU but with no RAM (LOL).
There can be small differences, RAM is the most desirable thing to have equal, as it is a crucial factor for multiplatform games. As for the GPU there could be a slight clock difference (50-100MHz), one could have 10-20% more shader units than the other but overall they will be the same, released at the same time with similar prices.

 

[Plinko]

I trust in you Sony, make the PS4 a fucking beast, my price limit is 599 dollars.

I can't believe people still say this. It's like you're rooting for them to go bankrupt.

 

[googleplex]

Make it 4 gb and its day one

It'll be 4Gb if 3d stacking is available before the manufacturing of the PS4 is set to begin.

 

[bgassassin]

So does this still put the Wii U as a DC/PS2 vs Xbox type situation in terms of power difference?

These are the specs I based those comments on.

Build a PC!

The correct answer.

So a 7790 then...

I've heard about the 7790, but I chose to stick with what's official and people have an easier time identifying.

So the APU is close to 1 teraflop and the GPU is 1.8??

around 2.5 seems like a good target

No, the ~1.8 TFLOP GPU is in the APU (or SoC).

Not a 7970, topic title is misleading.

It's not the OPs fault as that's how the info presented it.

It'll be 4Gb if 3d stacking is available before the manufacturing of the PS4 is set to begin.

It's supposedly contingent upon the memory density available.

 

[Vanillalite]

what was the top tier AMD video card this time last year? how much does it cost now? how much of that is overhead because they're cheaper to make now?

a 7970 in a late-2013 or early-2014 PS4 could cost beans to make. i don't know what beans means, i just thought it sounded cool to say.

Not really applicable because the top of the line card last year was just a refresh of the previous cards. The 7XXX series Ati cards like the new Nvidia cards are a totally new deal and the 1st time cards have gone down to the 28nm size.

Biggest thing about the 7970 is just the heat. I know I know it'll be a variant based of that card, but even with the new manufacturing process I just see heat issues coming in my mind.

I could be totally wrong though.

 

[McHuj]

Not really applicable because the top of the line card last year was just a refresh of the previous cards. The 7XXX series Ati cards like the new Nvidia cards are a totally new deal and the 1st time cards have gone down to the 28nm size.

Biggest thing about the 7970 is just the heat. I know I know it'll be a variant based of that card, but even with the new manufacturing process I just see heat issues coming in my mind.

I could be totally wrong though.

The clock rate and gigaflops indicate a power level similar to a 7850, very doable.

 

[Pistolero]

Are the components already set in stones for both next-gen console, or is there still a chance for either of them to modify its design? I am not talking of frequency bumps or RAM increase, but rather a change of heart regarding the GPU for exemple?

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

why is ATI winning all these designs?

AMD, what's ati (that brand is dead).

Why?
Cause their designs are better, better power-consumption/die size/performance/integration/etc.


==========
It's a custom APU with 1152SP (between HD7850-7870) and with low power cpu, 3.2Ghz for the new AMD modular designs are nothing power-consumption wise so the gpu can achieve a higher performance without affecting cooling systems(for a console).

(1152SP*800Mhz*2)/1000 = 1.84Tflops


"Normal" Steamroller APU will feature a 512SP gpu @900Mhz (same as a the HD7750). But the cpu will probably reach 4.5/4.7Ghz Turbo. You don't care much about the cpu on a console(just fast enough).


===
Please fix the topic, people don't read, just read topic and post nonsense.

Just put HD7800 based gpu

 

[BlackJace]

Er, so I guess this is good news right? A full generational leap? Mid-high end PC?

 

[Karak]

AMD, what's ati (that brand is dead).

Why?
Cause their designs are better, better power-consumption/die size/performance/integration/etc.


==========
It's a custom APU with 1152SP (between HD7850-7870) and with low power cpu, 3.2Ghz for the new AMD modular designs are nothing power-consumption wise so the gpu can achieve a higher performance without affecting cooling systems(for a console).

Yep. Sadly though it does seem that they have a good deal of problems and delays. That makes me nervous.

 

[Karak]

Er, so I guess this is good news right? A full generational leap? Mid-high end PC?

It depends still a lot up in the air and will be for some time and if this actually pans out as the end product.

EDIT: Damn double post...

 

[The Lamp]

Right, so start saving up.....now.

 

[Takuya]

Or a compromise. A split ram pool. As long as they don't skimp on either side, which is what hurt the PS3, I don't know why it wouldn't be the way to go. 1.5-2 GB of GDDR5 and 4GB of DDR 3 and I think they would be in good shape for a generation. I'd have to imagine developers are sick of dealing with the limited memory at this point. If there really is a huge discrepancy between MS's machine and Sony's, memory wise, it's going to cause issues for multiplatform developers again.

I think keeping 2gb of GDDR5 (dedicated) and adding 4GB DDR3 (shared) would be a good choice.

 

[Durante]

Er, so I guess this is good news right? A full generational leap? Mid-high end PC?

The "corrected" rumor (APU with 1.8 TFLOP GPU) is mid-end now. It will be low-mid-end in late 2013.

 

[Norml]

No, the ~1.8 TFLOP GPU is in the APU (or SoC).

oh,I always thought all the rumors said there would be a GPU to help the APU.

 

[Wag]

If the PS4 has a 7970 I'll plotz.

 

[Takuya]

The "corrected" rumor (APU with 1.8 TFLOP GPU) is mid-end now. It will be low-mid-end in late 2013.

Running at 1080p and being dedicated solely to (or almost exclusively to) one application will maximize the efficiency of the chips though. Not like it's going to run Windows or anything.

 

[Karak]

Running at 1080p and being dedicated solely to (or almost exclusively to) one application will maximize the efficiency of the chips though. Not like it's going to run Windows or anything.

I wonder what the newer more in depth OS's of these systems will require.

 

[Glorified G]

The "corrected" rumor (APU with 1.8 TFLOP GPU) is mid-end now. It will be low-mid-end in late 2013.

The rumor also says it comes with an discrete gpu along with the apu. So it won't be just one gpu.

oh,I always thought all the rumors said there would be a GPU to help the APU.

IGN rumor suggests this also. It seems from the rumors Sony is going with an apu. Whether they put a discrete gpu also is the question.

 

[Takuya]

I wonder what the newer more in depth OS's of these systems will require.

For sure more than what they current use, but nowhere near a full-blown OS... well... Maybe for MS? Don't know, but it seems like a waste of resources.

 

[bgassassin]

The rumor also says it comes with an discrete gpu along with the apu. So it won't be just one gpu.

Read it again.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

Can someone who's been here the whole time accurately summarize what the most likely specs are?

I really don't feel like skimming through all of the posts in the thread to come up with an answer.

 

[Pingoreous]

I think we gonna end up with 2 identical consoles and we just gonna have to choose a side. They both spying on each other and wont be out SPEC. The difference will be marginal like this generation has been. 7970 alone will still cost too much even in 2013.