Support NeoGAF

[StevieP]

tagquote

c'mon edram helps with bandwidth on the gpu side, especially with stuff like aa. I know you know this. Gpus still much prefer to be fed by gddr5

But faster than 7850 due to higher CU number. Saying because I don't see how that makes it lite.

how bout we say '28nm gcn gpu with 18cus clocked around 800mhz with some other customizations?

 

[StevieP]

Another day... another silly Sony rumor.

sorry about the dp... Argh I hate tablets! But these *are* the target specs (corrected by bg) leaked... Again. Not silly

 

[MDX]

What I dont get is that with WiiU rumors we heard the dev kits were running too hot.
And they supposedly were running the 4000 series.

How in the world has Sony and MS solved the heating issues?
And at what costs?

The other point regarding RAM, are we sure we are not just
getting devkit specs when we hear 4 gig and 6 gigs?
Which would translate to retail boxes having 2gigs & 3.

 

[herod]

What I dont get is that with WiiU rumors we heard the dev kits were running too hot.
And they supposedly were running the 4000 series.

How in the world has Sony and MS solved the heating issues?
And at what costs?

much larger cases and fans I guess.

 

[Brad Grenz]

The problem with the WiiU was it was physically tiny. If you use a larger box you can dissipate more heat.

 

[enzo_gt]

So how does this compare to the 720/Durango from the rumors? Roughly the same? Someone in this thread briefly said Durango is looking better but I want to know why and if it's a drastic difference if that's the case.

/technoob

 

[plasmasd]

The Wii U is in a tiny purse sized case. Its amazing they can get close to 360/PS3 performance in that tiny of a package. Im sure the 720/ps4 will have exotic cooling solutions to handle the heat.

 

[MDX]

The problem with the WiiU was it was physically tiny. If you use a larger box you can dissipate more heat.

Yeah, but their devkits dont have to be tiny.

 

[NBtoaster]

16GB seems huge. What would make an OS even close to that size? I know Windows is 30+GB but consoles dont need all that.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, but their devkits dont have to be tiny.

They don't have to be, but that doesn't mean they weren't. Or maybe the overheating rumors were wishful thinking fabricated by the "WiiU is secretly super powerful, you guys!" crowd.

 

[herod]

Yeah, but their devkits dont have to be tiny.

Think of them doubling up as a hardware pilot test.

 

[Brad Grenz]

16GB seems huge. What would make an OS even close to that size? I know Windows is 30+GB but consoles dont need all that.

That's not just for OS storage. They mention patches, probably caching, storing save states so you can sleep the console without having to save or you could do major multitasking. Imagine being able to pick up the game you left last night instantly without having to go through the whole game launch and loading process again.

 

[Instro]

What I dont get is that with WiiU rumors we heard the dev kits were running too hot.
And they supposedly were running the 4000 series.

Well my guess would be that those original off the shelf dev kits were rushed out so devs could get something going for E3 2011. Nintendo probably didn't care about cooling at the time since they would have been planning to send out new kits with the custom parts when they were completed.

 

[Windom Earle]

That would be amazing. Please be true.

 

[NBtoaster]

That's not just for OS storage. They mention patches, probably caching, storing save states so you can sleep the console without having to save or you could do major multitasking. Imagine being able to pick up the game you left last night instantly without having to go through the whole game launch and loading process again.

That does sound cool..

 

[Kenka]

bgassassin, I quite didn't get your line about the comparision to WiiU...

 

[Acosta]

I'm smiling at this. This is the type of hint I like to hear about, I hope is true. Sounds a good enough jump.

 

[Hammer24]

Consider them doubly more than convinced lol

Its still four plus two, right?

 

[thanks]

Code name is great, but specs are too powerful to be true for a home console.

Walk on, walk on with hope in your heart.

 

[Durante]

So how does this compare to the 720/Durango from the rumors? Roughly the same? Someone in this thread briefly said Durango is looking better but I want to know why and if it's a drastic difference if that's the case.

/technoob

Well, the rumoured PS4 is faster, the rumoured Xbox has significantly more memory. So not really the same at all.

I'd hate for Bethesda to be limited to 2GB (probably 1.5 after OS) for TES VI. If this turns out to be true I hope they just skip PS4.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

S, a 1.8TF GPU is confrmed. That's totaly acceptable to my standards, even for a Fall 2013 release.

 

[Durante]

S, a 1.8TF GPU is confrmed. That's totaly acceptable to my standards, even for a Fall 2013 release.

If true, it will probably be <1/3rd of the fastest desktop (single) GPUs at the point of it's release. That's a new low point for consoles.

 

[BigTnaples]

As long is it is powerful enough to run UE4, Agni's Engine, and Cryengine 3 at a good level of detail and scale I will be very happy.

Pack it with as much power as possible, and give the developers the freedom to make their very dreams into a reality, then allow us to play in them.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

If true, it will probably be <1/3rd of the fastest desktop (single) GPUs at the point of it's release. That's a new low point for consoles.

Any hardware that bleeds the companies day 1 is bad for industry. It's shaky already, even for Nintendo.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Pack it with as much power as possible, and give the developers the freedom to make their very dreams into a reality, then allow us to play in them.

I'm pretty sure most developers dream about not losing their jobs due to next gen game development costs spiraling out of control.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I like the idea of flash storage to save OS data and patches. I would like for everything to be moved to Flash storage (SSD only consoles), but this is a good approximation/compromise between performance and cost. Besides, a lot of data can stay in a good and fast HDD and do not suffer too much from the lack of very low access time you get from SSD storage especially if they are packing a faster Blu-Ray drive in PS4.

 

[Wallach]

going by the specs, i'd say it's orange times more powerful.

No less than a full order of durians stronger.

 

[BigTnaples]

I'm pretty sure most developers dream about not losing their jobs due to next gen game development costs spiraling out of control.

hahaha. No.


Any developer can benefit greatly from advanced hardware.

Assets are already made at high fidelity and then scaled down for current consoles.

Also the things that will see the biggest increase next gen graphically, have almost 0 cost associated with them.

Lighting
Bokeh DoF
Particles
Subsurface Scattering
Physics
Number of NPCs
Tesselation
Real Time Reflections
Volumetric Effects
etc etc.

Basically Assets are almost as good as they need to be already this gen.

Also, we have way better tools. Dev costs increasing drastically accross the board next gen is a ridiculous myth.

Indy Devs will have a field day with next gen hardware, if you think otherwise you are a fool.

 

[mrklaw]

Good on bg for correcting the article.

Wrong GPU (Pitcairn "lite" would be more appropriate, not 7970 lol - 7790 if you want a model number to judge by) but otherwise they nailed it.
The reason 2GB is mentioned is because it is of a pool of faster, unified memory rather than the other way of doing it to get a bigger number (i.e. MS console).

So could they add more memory easily or not? Maybe as a pool of slower memory to act as a buffer for large streaming worlds etc?

 

[bgassassin]

With just an apu this system would be super cheap.

Well wouldn't be super cheap, but making it affordable would be the goal.

Multiplat title like Madden. What advantage would having 4GB of slower ram make opposed to having 2GB of faster RAM?

I want visually impressive graphics. Does faster ram ensure that?

This. There has been lot beating around the bush with this. I want to know which would be more favourable when choosing between 4GB GDDR3 and 2GB GDDR5.

Of course, if the devs are complaining about 2GB GDDR5 now, it would mean they want more. Will GDDR3 satiate that condition?

GDDR3 has a smaller bandwidth and the same density limitations as GDDR5. As for the question at hand, put very simply textures would benefit from larger amounts of memory while things like AA and resolution would benefit from the larger bandwidth (faster) memory. That was the goal of the eDRAM in 360.

This is in line with info that was floating around earlier in the year, but with some more specifics. Specifically the gpu clock speed, the manufacturing process and the fact it's a single die config.

The gpu thing is confusing people, though, I think based on a wonky translation. It is a Tahiti based gpu, same architecture as the 7970 (i.e carries some of its architectural improvements in tesselation etc. iirc?) but closer to a Pitcairn configuration. Simple as that.

Now I'm not saying I know the info is correct, but it is on the button with things that were being said a few months ago. And it seems believable/realistic.

There's no difference between Tahiti and Pitcairn other than the amount of shaders and TMUs. I thought it had fewer ROPs as well, but apparently not. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, when the specs came out Tahiti was the only known GPU in the 7000 series at the time so that was essentially the only way to name it at the time.

They don't have to be, but that doesn't mean they weren't. Or maybe the overheating rumors were wishful thinking fabricated by the "WiiU is secretly super powerful, you guys!" crowd.

That crowd never existed.

bgassassin, I quite didn't get your line about the comparision to WiiU...

It was an analogy comparing next gen to last gen and where the consoles would roughly fall with Wii U being in the DC/PS2 area.

So could they add more memory easily or not? Maybe as a pool of slower memory to act as a buffer for large streaming worlds etc?

It seems like Sony is reluctant to go with a split pool. From what I last heard they would only increase the memory if there were a density increase in GDDR5.

 

[mrklaw]

Hmm. If ms go with 8GB I can see that making a huge difference, more than any potential speed advantage on ps4. Even if it's slower ram, surely 4x the amount is a big thing?

And haven't all AMD APUs been crap so far? Do they have a breakthrough planned? For consoles I can't help thinking two discrete chips and then cost engineer/ die shrink down to a single chip later in the gen. APUs sounds like compromise from the start

 

[Kenka]

It was an analogy comparing next gen to last gen and where the consoles would roughly fall with Wii U being in the DC/PS2 area.

Then, I assume this means we can expect third-party blockbusters to be also developed on WiiU.
Now, I hope there are other incentives for companies than raw capabilities like attractive online model, royalties, demos, etc.

It seems like Sony is reluctant to go with a split pool. From what I last heard they would only increase the memory if there were a density increase in GDDR5.

I didn't know the design of a console could be quite radically changed if V-RAM density could be increased. A testimony to how complex it is to design and configure hardware.

 

[Auto_aim1]

I'm pretty sure most developers dream about not losing their jobs due to next gen game development costs spiraling out of control.

It's far more expensive to optimize something for a weak system with inefficient architecture. There will be one time costs associated with creating an engine tailor-made for next-gen systems, but some of the bigger publishers have already started thinking about it - Frostbite 2, Unreal Engine 4, Luminous etc.

It depends on the platform holders to make their systems easy to develop for and provide efficient tools. And also what BigTnaples said in the post above.

 

[thuway]

Please put some part of Cell in there . Do it SONY!

 

[Krilekk]

7970 would be absolutely amazing. That's top of the line today.

Powerful consoles have always come out with top of the line hardware, nothing amazing about that. Can't compare retail prices of high end GPUs to what Microsoft or Sony pay when they order 5 million GPUs plus an additional 80 million over the next decade.

 

[cutmeamango]

Having no cell in it, what that would mean to all that amazing cell tech developed?

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Considering alienware could make a console sized box with a 7870 gpu, why couldn't Sony make the same with a weaker version of a 7970 in late 2013/2014?

 

[mrklaw]

Having no cell in it, what that would mean to all that amazing cell tech developed?

Possibly that multithreaded learning can be applied to however many threads the CPU has, although perhaps you don't have the discrete control over those like you would on CELL. Or you could use the GPU a similar way. I think that might be more beneficial.nthose devs that reall pushed CELL might be able to do things with GPGPU that blow of away

 

[Kenka]

Considering alienware could make a console sized box with a 7870 gpu, why couldn't Sony make the same with a weaker version of a 7970 in late 2013/2014?

Sony don't wanna lose money on hardware nor do they want to go beyond a mass-market price point. I guess they are really trying to exploit their current installed base as well as possible and then move to next-gen when a right combinaision of price, power and features will allow for another mass market success.

 

[jono51]

A $500 gpu... I am guessing ps4 will be out in 2014 then.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Sony don't wanna lose money on hardware nor do they want to go beyond a mass-market price point. I guess they are really trying to exploit their current installed base as well as possible and then move to next-gen when a right combinaision of price, power and features will allow for another mass market success.

Sony will most likely still lose money on hardware. They said they're going with power again next gen

 

[Lovely Salsa]

A $500 gpu... I am guessing ps4 will be out in 2014 then.

When xbox 360 released, it released with a gpu comparable to the 500 bucks one at the time. This is nothing new

7970 won't be top end by the end of next year or 2014

 

[Horse Armour]

How are AMD/Sony getting a 7970 core in the same package as a CPU? I thought the best APUs that AMD are offering only offered bottom range GPUs.

 

[Radec]

A $500 gpu... I am guessing ps4 will be out in 2014 then.

That $500 is a desktop gpu.

It'll be way cheaper for console use. Not to mention mass production.

 

[lherre]

Is nice to see VERY old info like new XD

 

[Horse Armour]

Is nice to see VERY old info like new XD

Hmm, do you know something?

 

[acm2000]

sounds fine to me for a console thats a good year/year and a half away

 

[acm2000]

When xbox 360 released, it released with a gpu comparable to the 500 bucks one at the time. This is nothing new

7970 won't be top end by the end of next year or 2014

there wasnt really a pc comparible device when 360 launched, unified shaders followed later didnt they?

 

[gofreak]

And haven't all AMD APUs been crap so far? Do they have a breakthrough planned? For consoles I can't help thinking two discrete chips and then cost engineer/ die shrink down to a single chip later in the gen. APUs sounds like compromise from the start

If these parts are being brought together onto a APU, I'm not sure you could compare it to APUs past. The constituent parts would be a lot better than what we've seen. When I first heard about those parts it was unclear if they were discrete or part of a APU. If they can be brought together onto a APU there's good reasons to do so.

There's no difference between Tahiti and Pitcairn other than the amount of shaders and TMUs. I thought it had fewer ROPs as well, but apparently not.

Oops, I could have sworn I'd read there were some differences between the two, but maybe I was thinking Cayman->Tahiti which is a slightly different kettle of fish (!)

 

[brain_stew]

This is the only PS4 rumour out there worth taking any notice of so far imo but at this point out could be very out dated. The fact that the op can't read what he was replying to is irrelevant. A GPU with 1834 gigaflops from the same family as the 7970 isn't a 7970. Its only the op that decided to claim it was.

A mod really needs to change the thread title.