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[Admiral Woofington]

What??? This isn't FUD at all, he's correct. Blu-ray movies are mastered in limited RBG, and if you set your ps4 to full and your TV to full theyll work great for games, but you'll wash out the range for blu-ray. Your games certainly will not "look worse" if you calibrate using limited RBG. They'll look perfectly fine as long as you calibrate with limited in mind for both ps4 and TV.

I guess it entirely depends on the TV then, because mine automatically changes to Limited range in blu-ray films but in everything that supports full it keeps it as such.

interesting article.

i have a pioneer kuro pro 151 FD, should i put it full or limited. i'll try to dig through the thread and see if someone has my tv

Not sure what article you're speaking of, but the best way to see is yourself. Go to the display settings on your TV, if you don't find an option hidden anywhere about "Black level" or something similarly named (as the OP gives different names it may be under) then it's limited so leave it in limited. If you have the option then put it in full and put PS4 in full.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

I guess it entirely depends on the TV then, because mine automatically changes to Limited range in blu-ray films but in everything that supports full it keeps it as such.



Not sure what article you're speaking of, but the best way to see is yourself. Go to the display settings on your TV, if you don't find an option hidden anywhere about "Black level" or something similarly named (as the OP gives different names it may be under) then it's limited so leave it in limited. If you have the option then put it in full and put PS4 in full.

sorry, i meant "thread" and comparing OP's to the AVS forums' talking about the same issue for the ps3 back in the days.

here:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-blu-ray-players/931796-official-ps3-faq-master-thread.html

 

[MitzTapuzim]

I am really,really confused...

I would very appriciate if someone could help me understand if my TV does supports full RGB - I have the Sony 40w705c which I guess is almost identical to the 2014's B version that I know many people have. I always thought that full RGB is only possible on 10bit panels which I almost certain that my set does not have that kind of panel..

Anyway, thanks in advance.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

guys it's pretty simple, if you go to the settings in your tv for display (aka color/gamma/brightness) there are other options in there. If among the many options there you don't find an option for the level of blacks, then your TV is limited. So put the PS4 in limited.

 

[Live Free or Die]

guys it's pretty simple, if you go to the settings in your tv for display (aka color/gamma/brightness) there are other options in there. If among the many options there you don't find an option for the level of blacks, then your TV is limited. So put the PS4 in limited.

I have a setting called "Black Detail" Improves details in dark areas of the picture. High provides the strongest effect. It can be set to off, low, medium and high.

Is that the setting for RGB?

 

[Raist]

Set BD/DVD to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr. That will make movies look just fine regardless of the RGB settings for games.

 

[Mike Golf]

I have a setting called "Black Detail" Improves details in dark areas of the picture. High provides the strongest effect. It can be set to off, low, medium and high.

Is that the setting for RGB?

No; as was already stated, there should only be two options amounting to something like Normal and Low. What you're referring to is a setting that applys further alterations to brightness and gamma ontop the actual brightness and gamma controls in your TVs menu.

 

[Horsemama1956]

Games don't follow a set colour standard. If your TV is calibrated for RGB you would want all of your devices to match. Most are going to be REC709+ so you would want limited. Obviously a monitor will want Full since they are all RGB. If your settings are right you shouldn't really see a difference with either setting on a TV.

If you really care about your TVs picture quality, invest in some soft of meter even a cheap one and calibrate it properly(gamma, colours, grayscale etc). Most TVS now don't even require the service menu anymore with everything you need in the standard user menu.

 

[Mike Golf]

Games don't follow a set colour standard.If your TV is calibrated for RGB you would want all of your devices to match. Most are going to be REC709+ so you would want limited. Obviously a monitor will want Full since they are all RGB. If your settings are right you shouldn't really see a difference with either setting on a TV.

If you really care about your TVs picture quality, invest in some soft of meter even a cheap one and calibrate it properly(gamma, colours, grayscale etc). Most TVS now don't even require the service menu anymore with everything you need in the standard user menu.

Look, that can't be true. While I don't know exactly what standard they use, whether it be rec709, sRGB, aRGB, or Pro Photo RGB, they have to be using one of these. If developers didn't then art assets would look different for each artist on their team, one person working in one space while another is working in another, with the overall team lead, director etc. having a hodge podge of different looking assets when they all get put together. If I had to guess I would say they are using sRGB as that is most common in consumer PC monitors and is the closest RGB equivalent to rec709.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

What??? This isn't FUD at all, he's correct. Blu-ray movies are mastered in limited RBG, and if you set your ps4 to full and your TV to full theyll work great for games, but you'll wash out the range for blu-ray. Your games certainly will not "look worse" if you calibrate using limited RBG. They'll look perfectly fine as long as you calibrate with limited in mind for both ps4 and TV.

I know Blu-rays aren't RGB, I never said they were. My point was exactly because of the signal being sent that movies can be washed out.

The FUD I was referencing was to always leave it on limited no matter what the screen can do. I hate seeing this because there are plenty of TVs that do full range RGB just fine and there's no real reason not to use it if you can.

Frankly, I'll be glad once 4K is more widespread so we can get away from all of this back and forth, because we shouldn't need to make settings changes for things that are a standard.

 

[Silent-blades]

What about just setting the input to PC do I still need to do all of this?

 

[davidwhangchoi]

Set BD/DVD to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr. That will make movies look just fine regardless of the RGB settings for games.

+1 to that

 

[inpHilltr8r]

I am really,really confused...

Me too. I'm going back to radio. It's much simpler.

 

[Raist]

Here, two (old) posts I made with explanations.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91441288&postcount=152

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91487995&postcount=166


tl;dr If you're unsure about RGB settings on your TV, just leave your console on limited. It won't make a huge difference.

 

[Menteith]

+1 to that

As aready posted by me, that does not really solve the problem. Yes, you can set your TV to full if it supports it (and set the PS4 to RGB fuill), and then calibrate your TV to those settings. However, once you play a blu it will use the "limited RGB" set so to speak. Now that your TV is calibrated for FULL RGB, blurays will look washed out. If you are ONLY playing games all of this does not affect you. But if you watch blus from time to time, you will have to recalibrate your TV back and forth (which is not a solution) OR you do have a TV which automatically sets the black level to full/limited (one user mentioned he has such a TV, although I personally have never heard about such a functionality).

 

[Raist]

As aready posted by me, that does not really solve the problem. Yes, you can set your TV to full if it supports it (and set the PS4 to RGB fuill), and then calibrate your TV to those settings. However, once you play a blu it will use the "limited RGB" set so to speak. Now that your TV is calibrated for FULL RGB, blurays will look washed out. If you are ONLY playing games all of this does not affect you. But if you watch blus from time to time, you will have to recalibrate your TV back and forth (which is not a solution) OR you do have a TV which automatically sets the black level to full/limited (one user mentioned he has such a TV, although I personally have never heard about such a functionality).

No it won't. If it receives a YCbCr signal, it will ignore the RGB setting.

 

[Menteith]

No it won't. If it receives a YCbCr signal, it will ignore the RGB setting.

Yes, but your TV is calibrated to the FULL specturm signal, that is the problem...

 

[Hostile_18]

Everytime I set the Sony TV and PS4 to Full the blu ray player will wash out the movies.

Am I losing anything when gaming by setting both to limited?

 

[Black Hat]

Am I losing anything when gaming by setting both to limited?

As long as your TV is set to Limited as well, then no.

 

[Raist]

Everytime I set the Sony TV and PS4 to Full the blu ray player will wash out the movies.

Am I losing anything when gaming by setting both to limited?

Barely anything. See a couple of posts above.
But just set BD playback to YCbCr and you'll be fine.

Yes, but your TV is calibrated to the FULL specturm signal, that is the problem...

The vast majority of calibration tools are in limited color space anyway, since they're vastly made for calibrating for video content.

 

[Hostile_18]

As long as your TV is set to Limited as well, then no.

Yeah I can change both to limited. Just heard earlier that games are mastered at full RGB and so thought I might be getting lesser Picture Quality when gaming despite Blu Rays looking better.

 

[Hostile_18]

Barely anything. See a couple of posts above.
But just set BD playback to YCbCr and you'll be fine.

It that an option on the ps4 system settings? Must have missed it. That would be good then I can get best of both worlds.

 

[Raist]

Yeah I can change both to limited. Just heard earlier that games are mastered at full RGB and so thought I might be getting lesser Picture Quality when gaming despite Blu Rays looking better.

You lose a tiny bit of colour definition but frankly it's barely noticeable.
By setting your console to limited, it will properly convert to the 16-235 scale for output.

It that an option on the ps4 system settings? Must have missed it. That would be good then I can get best of both worlds.

Should be right next to RGB setting.

 

[Hostile_18]

Brilliant thanks for the info. Will try it out tonight.

I've got one last question that's kind of related if anyone can help me out.

Using the same TV with the same settings on each imput is there much room for veriance in terms of PQ between a PS4 blu ray player and a dedicated Sony player? Like is the processing all done to a set standard etc? I know disc load times will vary etc but was thinking solely on image quality.

Asking because switching between imput's and not having two of the same movie it's hard to tell.

 

[Hostile_18]

You lose a tiny bit of colour definition but frankly it's barely noticeable.
By setting your console to limited, it will properly convert to the 16-235 scale for output.



Should be right next to RGB setting.

I haven't got that as an option. On Video output setting it's simply "Resolution" "TV size" "RGB Range" and "Deep Colour Output".

 

[Raist]

I haven't got that as an option. On Video output setting it's simply "Resolution" "TV size" "RGB Range" and "Deep Colour Output".

Hmmm. Googled it and it seems they removed the option in some FW update.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

maybe a smart tv is required to remember blu-ray settings? Else I can't explain why my TV switches to limited for blu-ray by itself.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

I guess it entirely depends on the TV then, because mine automatically changes to Limited range in blu-ray films but in everything that supports full it keeps it as such.



Not sure what article you're speaking of, but the best way to see is yourself. Go to the display settings on your TV, if you don't find an option hidden anywhere about "Black level" or something similarly named (as the OP gives different names it may be under) then it's limited so leave it in limited. If you have the option then put it in full and put PS4 in full.

Does your TV and PS4 automatically communicate? That is to say is PS4's automatic setting properly assuming Full. It should be easy to check if so - switching automatic to full in that case wouldn't case the screen to reset for a few seconds if that was the case.

 

[MaKTaiL]

PS4 automatic setting is still a problem even on 3.50 Beta 3. I have to manually set to Full to match my TV settings. Isn't Sony aware of this? Why haven't they fixed it yet? I wonder how many people in the world play with the worng settings everyday.

 

[Neiteio]

My TV, under Black Level, has a choice of "Low" and "High." I guess I should keep it at "Low" and set my PS4 to "Limited?"

EDIT: Oh, I see — Automatic appears to assume Limited. So I guess it was already matching up on my TV, even with my PS4 set to Automatic.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Here, two (old) posts I made with explanations.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91441288&postcount=152

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91487995&postcount=166


tl;dr If you're unsure about RGB settings on your TV, just leave your console on limited. It won't make a huge difference.

Thanks for this info. Best explanation I seen on this.

My PS4 set itself to Auto (was manually on Full from my IPS monitor it was hooked up to previously) to match my new Sony X830C which also was set to Auto. It seems that the TV/PS4 Auto is Full, and I assume they talk to each other better because they are both Sony.

But to err on the side of caution, should I set both manually to Full?

 

[Diablos]

I have the Sony KDL-40W600B. Full mode on ps4 washes everything out. I put it on limited as well on the set itself.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

How did we ever get into this crappy situation where a certain RGB level can mean two different things, anyway?

 

[DeepEnigma]

I have the Sony KDL-40W600B. Full mode on ps4 washes everything out. I put it on limited as well on the set itself.

Your set probadly defaults it to 'limited', where as I read most 4K sets default to 'full', and supposedly this will be a non issue when 4K becomes the standard.

Then again, the Internet, what I read could be misinformation about the 4K being standard fixing this issue.

 

[LOUD915]

FYI, even with all of the system updates, the Automatic setting is still wrong for my TV.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

FYI, even with all of the system updates, the Automatic setting is still wrong for my TV.

Thanks for the update. It might not be Sony's fault, the EDID being sent from a TV could be incorrect to begin with.

http://referencehometheater.com/2014/commentary/rgb-full-vs-limited/

Q: Should I set my video game system to Auto instead of choosing Limited or Full?

A: No. If you can choose Limited or Full, you are best to do this. The system will choose based on the EDID of your display, or your receiver, whatever it connects directly to. Usually this is fine but some devices report incorrectly, or the system interprets it incorrectly. A good example is the Roku 3, which doesn’t let you change this setting. A receiver I was testing reported an incorrect EDID to my Roku, forcing it into Full RGB which crushed all the shadows and made the image look bad. Had the Roku let me change this, I could have avoided the issue. Since you know which you should pick, you should always do it because you can avoid complications.

Also, to reiterate - if you have your PS4/X1 hooked up to your PC monitor. You need to put your console on RGB Full. 99.99% of PC monitors default to RGB Full.

 

[Kamina]

So my Samsung TV is in Game Mode, the HDMI Black Level setting is greyed out and set to Normal. On my PS4 Pro, none of the RBG settings seem to make a difference (Auto, Limited, Full) The RBG Test images are not showing any crushed backs in either option, neither with HDR active or without. PS4 is set to 4:2:0