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Quantum Break Unmarked Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter SmartWaffles
- Start date
Meh I knew we won't get any resolution on anything except the basic main story related to Pail Serene because sequels !
Remedy always does this, why leave threads hanging when you don't even know if you are going to make a sequel. I get that you need to keep things open fornit but you can do that without this many unanswered questions...especially if it has been playing out straight from the beginning i.e. the interview.
Also that anonymous letter before Paul's office was definitely from Martin, and it said Jack and Paul are both shifters. But inside the office in one of the mails Paul sends to Amaral he says that he fears he'll become a shifter...wut?
There were lots of things teased but unexplained and as I said nothing was resolved outside of Paul's story. Speaking of which, what did he intended on doing once the lifeboat ran out of chronon particles ? What good does making it failsafe do if it is finite anyway? You could say he was delusional but this is such a glaring flaw that he had to consider it and if he really believed the fracture couldn't be fixed then he knew it was only a finite solution....so why do all of this?
And the junctions being Paul's decision don't make sense if you think about the fact that Paul thought nothing could be changed.
Remedy always does this, why leave threads hanging when you don't even know if you are going to make a sequel. I get that you need to keep things open fornit but you can do that without this many unanswered questions...especially if it has been playing out straight from the beginning i.e. the interview.
Also that anonymous letter before Paul's office was definitely from Martin, and it said Jack and Paul are both shifters. But inside the office in one of the mails Paul sends to Amaral he says that he fears he'll become a shifter...wut?
There were lots of things teased but unexplained and as I said nothing was resolved outside of Paul's story. Speaking of which, what did he intended on doing once the lifeboat ran out of chronon particles ? What good does making it failsafe do if it is finite anyway? You could say he was delusional but this is such a glaring flaw that he had to consider it and if he really believed the fracture couldn't be fixed then he knew it was only a finite solution....so why do all of this?
And the junctions being Paul's decision don't make sense if you think about the fact that Paul thought nothing could be changed.
Becoming a shifter seems to be the end game for anyone who is able to manipulate time. Paul was getting treatments to stave off that fate. Remember he has been chronon sensitive for alot longer than Jack
Hatch is trying to lead humanity and specifically chronon sensitive people to this end
The lifeboat was just in case they couldnt come up with a solution in time. It was never meant to be a permanent solution (thats why only scientists and useful people were invited). I believe on Pauls charts he estimates 12 years to find a solution following the activation of the lifeboat.
Yea but the unsigned note said Paul and Jack "are" Shifters, so anyone who is able to manipulate time is a shifter by that definition. But according to Paul's note a Shifter would be what anyone who manipulate's time becomes...whatever it is they become.
Solution to what though? Because he specifically believed it couldn't be fixed hence he didn't agree with Jack/Will's who believed it could be fixed.
Paul and Jack are Shifter Potentials essentially. Over time they both would become Shifters similar to Hatch. It's a disease of sorts.
For Hatch, he just lumps Shifter Potentials and Shifters together. Either way, Paul doesn't want to become a full blown Shifter like Hatch and so uses the treatment to slow down the progression. Jack's symptoms are also starting to manifest at the end of the game.
I haven't really dug through the Shifter files in the emails but Shifters are virtually impossible to kill as they exist outside of time and are something like infinite possibilities. Both Hatch and Serene are still 'alive' despite being 'killed'.
Paul doesn't believe the Fracture can be fixed before Zero Time, aka the End of Time, occurs. Jack and Will do. Paul was going to use the Lifeboat Protocol to buy more time so that the scientists in the LBP could figure out how to fix Zero Time, which might take decades. There was no guarantee of this. Both Jack and Will believe that they could prevent Zero Time from occuring however they're wrong as it has to happen as both Beth and Paul have seen the End of Time.
The CFR, aka the Countermeasure, is only good as the Countermeasure before Zero Time occurs.
Just saw there is a novel coming with Paul and Jacks wacky hijinks. Might give it a purchase
http://www.tor.com/2016/03/07/excerpts-quantum-break-zero-state-cam-rogers/
http://www.tor.com/2016/03/07/excerpts-quantum-break-zero-state-cam-rogers/
SlasherJPC
Banned
Hatch takes those eye drops, which help with chronon right? What would he need that for? To stay physically in solid form, otherwise look like a shifter?
Alandrus Sun
Banned
I suppose. Hatch is a Shifter who learned somehow to control himself and retain a solid form, this is mentioned in one of the very late email/notes.
SmartWaffles
Member
I'm also confused about Beth's character story. So she died on July 4th, 2010? Basically her life goes as born -> meet her future self knowing future events -> joins monarch to sabotage Paul's plan and helps Jack -> goes to the end of time -> crawls back to 1999 -> met Jack in 2010 again (first) -> killed by Paul?
BabyFaceKillah
Member
i knew hatch wasnt your ordinary villain....
He also has contacts lol
You can see him move them in one of the live action scenes
cleveridea
Member
I thought they ruined the ending from the very moment the game started by doing the whole interview thing - we knew that he fixed things in the end, because if not there couldnt be an after-the-fact interview where he comments on everything (not just in the small interview cutscenes but throughout regular gameplay too)
So story wise I thought the game was just predictable and boring. I hoped I was wrong but ... yep everything was fixed and so it was just an after-the-fact interview
I still had fun and hoped that it wasnt that simple so the disappointment only came at the end when I realised - oh there isnt anything special, its exactly like it seemed from the opening moments.
So story wise I thought the game was just predictable and boring. I hoped I was wrong but ... yep everything was fixed and so it was just an after-the-fact interview
I still had fun and hoped that it wasnt that simple so the disappointment only came at the end when I realised - oh there isnt anything special, its exactly like it seemed from the opening moments.
cleveridea
Member
Yeah, it fixed him to a particular instance of himself versus a superposition of all possible states
So he could appear to die since his other forms were suppressed, presumably the effect wore off later and he could use one of his other forms
SmartWaffles
Member
Read this thread and think again
cleveridea
Member
All forms of shifters have to die before they finally die which is why they are so tough to kill with regular weapons
the eye drops worked to make him appear like a regular person by making him retain only a single form (versus continually shifting to the various forms/instances without them). so only that 1 form was killed.
cleveridea
Member
One of the notes you read explains that he is a shifter basically and therefore has many forms
it also explains his name as being a "hatch" between forms which is a cool touch
The note combined with his death (depending on choices picked) and coming alive again afterwards makes this the only explanation that fits given the game's content
I absolutely love that the game stuck with it's own rule and Paul was still correct in the end. It was just a very winding path. Once Hatch said the infinite I was like oh he's a weird time creature and then post eye stabbing just to hammer it in.
Yes, as far as I can tell. She had a shitty life, my only issue is how did the cycle get initiated?
cleveridea
Member
Yeah that and not seeing the end of time, I hoped that you would at least briefly visit it.
I think that its clear they set up everything so there can be other media (like the book) and other games if it did well.
I dont see the game as selling that great vs costs though - it strikes me as expensive to make, especially since the live action elements were longer and had more effects than I expected, and there are quite a few known actors vs unknowns. the problem is that X1 seems to be trailing PS4 pretty bad, and the PC port is a bit of a disaster and un-mod-able being a UWP exclusive, so I am not sure how well the PC version will sell. I have the PC version and it runs only acceptably at 1080p on ultra (ie not 60 fps) and thats 32GB 4790K with Titan X which is kinda ridiculous.
There is also the problem of game length, I can see a lot of people seeing its can be completed in 1 day (which is what I did) and even just half a dozen hours if you rush it.
I do not understand the 4/10 review scores from several places including Giant Bomb. I was disappointed in the story and ending ultimately but otherwise thought it was a fascinating, inventive and beautiful game that has some incredible effects and plays unlike any other game out there. I dont regret spending the $60 for it at all.
yeah I didn't get that too, I'm replaying the game however, so I hope to understand it
Blue Ninja
Member
The cycle got initiated when she got sent to the end of time. It's a paradox. The only reason Beth got sent into the future (and later the past) is because her older self then approached her younger self, thus setting her on the path to relive the events again.
SlipperyMoose
Member
I don't fully understand d Hatch as a character. I thought perhaps he might even be the final boss but he just disappeared.
Alandrus Sun
Banned
Yes, although I don't know what you mean by "first" in 2010? The "first" time she meets Jack officially is in 2016, although she had been shadowing him a good part of her life. She then meets back up with him again in the past in 2010 where she dies. I love Beth's story because it shows how crazy time travel can get especially with the notion that the past is set in stone.
SmartWaffles
Member
Yeah by "first" I mean chronologically July 4th, 2010 is the first time she meets Jack, but in the order of events it's "again".
There is an email before Paul's office in Act 5, telling Paul that he has contacted with a Time Machine way before and he wants to create a world for Shifters, it is anonymous but we have come to the conclusion that it was Hatch, him being a Shifter letting him practically live forever, and the one Liam/Emily "killed" was merely one of his many forms in the chronon field.
Alandrus Sun
Banned
Yes.
cleveridea
Member
I think they saved him for a sequel, given how unique he is (ie he wasnt like one of the many other regular humans killed off by the end)
SmartWaffles
Member
I assume Paul does not know Martin is a Shifter at all? Then he won't be sending just 4 troopers with no chronon protection gear to take Martin into custody.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Posted this in the OT but this might be a better place to ask.
I'm just curious how much the story changes based on your decisions. Some of them seem fairly straightforward, like different characters appearing different places and different dialogue but does it really have any impact on the ending and/or overall trajectory of the story?
The ending was a bit abrupt I thought so just curious if there's more to discover.
Also, is there any set of choices that Remedy considers to be canon?
I'm just curious how much the story changes based on your decisions. Some of them seem fairly straightforward, like different characters appearing different places and different dialogue but does it really have any impact on the ending and/or overall trajectory of the story?
The ending was a bit abrupt I thought so just curious if there's more to discover.
Also, is there any set of choices that Remedy considers to be canon?
Vinterbird
Member
That's my assumption. Paul just sees him as a trusted ally, and someone that understands the situation.
Was Hatch's eye drops ever explained? Are they used to anchor him in the current timeline so he doesn't shift out of place?
Huh, looks like I followed the majority with PR, Personal, Amaral, Control.
Really dug it a lot, want to find out more about Hatch though. Ended with a 97.5% completion, so I'll go back and snag what I missed.
Really dug it a lot, want to find out more about Hatch though. Ended with a 97.5% completion, so I'll go back and snag what I missed.
Maybe? Now that you mention it, Ogawa was VERY interested in finding out how Jack willed himself back from the first time trip.
SmartWaffles
Member
The basic premise of the story does not change, but "how it gets there" varies from decisions, like certain characters gets killed instead of others, and there indeed are gameplay changes.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Thanks. Guess I'll have to do another playthrough then after getting all the collectibles and what not.
Impulsor
Member
So I finished this yesterday and while I enjoyed it quite a bit, I ended up a little frustrated.
There seems to be some pretty big inconsistencies, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll list the ones I remember from the top of my head.
So, when Jack goes to MonarchMansion to kidnap Dr. Amaral, which I think woudl be endign of act 2, beginning of act 3? You have a junction there, and have to choose between Personal and Professional, right?
I chose Personal, and in the next show episode, there is a scene in which Paul Seren goes into the room where Jack Joyce is tied up and tries to explain that the past can't be changed.
HE tells Jack to remember that time when they were young and saw a homeless ina rooftop or soemthing like that, willing to jump, he told jack that he tried to stop it and everytime they failed or whatever.
How can this be, it is specifically stated repeatedly by Will Joyce that you cannot go back to a point in time in which the Time Machine was not activated, which means the absolute furthest to the past You can travel is to the 28th of February 1999.
Also, there is a note from Will in the pool, the first time you go there that explains that if one goes into the time machine, you will emerge in the same time machine where ever it may be in the future/past.
How come Jack emerges in the time machine at the Pool on the 4th of July of 2010... the core isn't there... I don't really get it.
These are two things that bug me, specially the first one.
EDIT: Oh and also all the Shifter teasing. In the end you never even fight a single one. Monarch emails and beth's notes about them are absoltuely terrifying, and we never EVER fight any single one of them You just see one in a corridor before paul's office at monarch's HQ.
It seems to me that the game would need a few more months n development to bring everything together properly.
There seems to be some pretty big inconsistencies, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll list the ones I remember from the top of my head.
So, when Jack goes to MonarchMansion to kidnap Dr. Amaral, which I think woudl be endign of act 2, beginning of act 3? You have a junction there, and have to choose between Personal and Professional, right?
I chose Personal, and in the next show episode, there is a scene in which Paul Seren goes into the room where Jack Joyce is tied up and tries to explain that the past can't be changed.
HE tells Jack to remember that time when they were young and saw a homeless ina rooftop or soemthing like that, willing to jump, he told jack that he tried to stop it and everytime they failed or whatever.
How can this be, it is specifically stated repeatedly by Will Joyce that you cannot go back to a point in time in which the Time Machine was not activated, which means the absolute furthest to the past You can travel is to the 28th of February 1999.
Also, there is a note from Will in the pool, the first time you go there that explains that if one goes into the time machine, you will emerge in the same time machine where ever it may be in the future/past.
How come Jack emerges in the time machine at the Pool on the 4th of July of 2010... the core isn't there... I don't really get it.
These are two things that bug me, specially the first one.
EDIT: Oh and also all the Shifter teasing. In the end you never even fight a single one. Monarch emails and beth's notes about them are absoltuely terrifying, and we never EVER fight any single one of them You just see one in a corridor before paul's office at monarch's HQ.
It seems to me that the game would need a few more months n development to bring everything together properly.
SmartWaffles
Member
The first does look like a plot hole to me. For the second I think they are taking liberty here, something like "you show up where the exit of the corridor is". The Shifter in the monarch building is very likely to be Martin Hatch though.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
I don't remember that scene exactly, but isn't it possible that event happened after 1999?
Impulsor
Member
Nope, he specifically mentions they were 12-14 years old. So Impossible.
Alandrus Sun
Banned
Do we actually know the exact age of Jack? When was he born?
Impulsor
Member
I think there is a note somewhere saying that he was 17 around the date where Will started Countermeasure development (1999)
In any case it doesn't matter because Paul says they BOTH were 12-14 when that happened and he was never able to travel further back than the 28th of February of 1999, which was the first activation of Will's time machine.
EDIT:
Look, this is exactly the point of the show I'm referring to: I won't link it but I'll transcribe word for word. This happens during episode 2 of the show, while Paul goes to talk to handcuffed Jack.
Paul says exactly this:
So yeah... huge oversight in my opinion. Supposedly Paul and Jack are the same age at present time, before activating the machine, so I assume they grew up together.
Alandrus Sun
Banned
Yup, you're right then we've got a plot hole. The only way it could potentially be explained away is that because Paul was essentially turning into a Shifter he no longer needed a time machine to traverse time. But, that itself is contradicted by the fact that he had Monarch build a second (or rather third) time machine on their own as backup but was scared to actually use it.
Impulsor
Member
No, but I'll keep an eye out for that.
The university part seemed to be the same... so no reason to think otherwise.
EDIT: wait, I rember that, the bodies are not there, but there is an Echo where you see that same exact scene from the GIF fold out.
Impulsor
Member
I think there might be another plot hole here.
So, remember how they always tell you that what has already happened has to happen for Jack or Beth or whoever to end up where they are right?
For example, Jack can't take Beth in the past because if he does then she won't drive the van and rescue him right?
So, the fracture is closed in 2016, which means the end of time will never happen, which means Beth and Paul never would have gone there which basically throws out the window the entire storyline in the final act.
You get what I mean?
So, remember how they always tell you that what has already happened has to happen for Jack or Beth or whoever to end up where they are right?
For example, Jack can't take Beth in the past because if he does then she won't drive the van and rescue him right?
So, the fracture is closed in 2016, which means the end of time will never happen, which means Beth and Paul never would have gone there which basically throws out the window the entire storyline in the final act.
You get what I mean?
Jessie.Bristol
Member
But the fracture wasn't closed entirely. Basically just postponed it. Paul Serene seen the End of Time in 2020, which threw Monarch off when it began happening right after the fracture. Jack saved William and then they traveled slightly into the future and stopped the fracture temporarily when using the CFR.
Jessie.Bristol
Member
Well, no. They never stopped the fracture at all, merely slowed the End of Time from approaching. Martin Hatch's goal was to allow the End of Time to happen, hence why he was always working against Paul Serene. William Joyce even alludes to it after they activate the CFR.
Alandrus Sun
Banned
This, although we're really guessing at this point. That said, everything we've seen in the game suggests that the past cannot be altered thus since both Paul and Beth saw the End of Time in the future that means that it WILL happen. You and William were always supposed to use the CFR to close the fracture that apparently was not what caused the End of Time. Paul was always right, you cannot stop it from happening.
Of course, we'll have to wait for the sequel to know for sure if we're correct. But, from my perspective the real villain of the game was Jack.
Resident_UA
Member
OK. So I think I get most of the story now. Basically nothing happened and time will still end. But who or what is Hatch? Is there a good explanation anywhere?
To me it seems that Paul becomes a shifter when they activate the CFR to "fix time". As like Martin, he died but came back but when time started again, he slowly shifted away and that's the description Martin gave in that note. Also notice that Martin was killed in the CFR chamber but his body wasn't there when you come in as Jack.
Damn I love this story. I gotta go back and do the other choices and get the collectibles I missed.
Damn I love this story. I gotta go back and do the other choices and get the collectibles I missed.