Sir Abacus
Member
I dunno. Once I had disposable income combined with the modern convenience of Steam's instant gratification and faster internet I haven't pirated a game. That was circa-2003.
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R.I.P Denuvo - Tekken 7 and Dishonored 2 cracked
- Thread starter Elven_Star
- Start date
CecilRousso
Member
Yeah, who needs that money anyway?
No, the solution is very clearly not using shitty ass DRM. Because you know, games actually fucking sell and have sold extremely well without it. Fucking Dark Souls III was pirateable from day one and yet that didn't stop it from selling 1.5 million on Steam.
Abilidebob
Member
I love those hot takes. I sincerely do, they're honestly entertaining. Especially when most of them come from juniors.
-MD-
Member
If you hate money, sure.
How exactly do we know that?
How much potential sales do they lost?
For Console+PC owner, does that affect their decision to just pirate it?
Would the PC sales cover their Porting cost?
Here's a simple solution deferred the all PC port games until new version of Denuvo or stop porting it all together.
Piracy is disgusting no matter how you tried to defend it to be.
Stupidest suggestion ever. These games are doing fine with or without piracy. I don't understand the apologists. Do you know how much money Bethesda and Bandai Namco make? More than what the steamspy numbers suggest, these are multi-billion dollar companies. While I don't condone piracy, it puzzles me that people are defending them. Maybe if it was a smaller company then I would understand where people are getting at.
But its funny, the same people that complain that games are 60 dollars, the same people that complain about DLC, microtransactions, bad business practices, are the same ones defending them.
GhostTrick
Banned
Lol, you wished
Better kill hundred of thousands of sales because of potentially losing a few ones. :"")
Does it need to be most to be considered harmful and wrong?
Abilidebob
Member
Here's a simpler(and less stupid) solution: keep releasing games like they've been doing for years as those kinds of DRM end up usually fucking the paying customer for no reason.
I don't think that poster meant that piracy isn't wrong. Just that the solutions that companies use to keep their games off the hands of pirates have been, historically, only really affecting paying customers, while pirates, one way or the other, sometimes get a better experience because of those DRM practices. Is it really worth making your customers angry just to "convert" a small amount of pirates?
what the fuck is this post even talking about? you know GOG exists right?
CecilRousso
Member
IcyRhythms
Member
"Stop porting games to the PC!" *cries*
Yeah. Absolutely brilliant solution. The people that say shit like this are the ones buying all their games used where the end result is the same as piracy.
Yeah. Absolutely brilliant solution. The people that say shit like this are the ones buying all their games used where the end result is the same as piracy.
Because more PS4 exclusives if games won't release on PC. That's all that matters. More PS4 exclusives is better for everyone.
Sure but I don't think there's anything wrong in trying to prevent something harmful and wrong (sometimes it also works to some extent). Unfortunately this can also lead to some negatives to the actual customers like the already mentioned modding hindrances, I acknowledge that. But I don't like that the blame seems to go towards publishers and devs only rather than the actual cause of all this. Pubs want to protect their investment and some devs want to protect their creation. I can't get mad at that. I can get mad at the people pirating games. What other means we have against pirates, stricter monitoring and legal means to fine pirates? Why should we just allow it? People are only demanding to get rid of Denuvo, but piracy should just be accepted?
4207 games released on steam in 2016. 31 use Denuvo (4 removed it after release)
there were at least 4 (5,6?) years before denuvo but after starforce/securom/tages where nothing but steamworks/uplay/origin/blizzards client was used
i dont study the numbers like some folks on here but i think its safe to say denuvo could go the fuck away right now and the industry would not blink
there were at least 4 (5,6?) years before denuvo but after starforce/securom/tages where nothing but steamworks/uplay/origin/blizzards client was used
i dont study the numbers like some folks on here but i think its safe to say denuvo could go the fuck away right now and the industry would not blink
I'm seriously wondering wether this is a meme i dont know or wether the lot posting this ITT really are that simple minded
*software that didnt exist 3 years ago goes away because it doesn't work anymore and everyone hates it*
oh no what will we do now
Ask Nintendo, why they chose to release Breath of the Wild still on WiiU that is now easily piratable if you want to and have a decent rig(probably because they still managed to sell 1 million units on WiiU which is quite a lot). There's still a profit to be made on the PC despite piracy and piracy hurts PC sales at most, not the other consoles, so having a PC version will always be better than not having one.
It won't affect performance, as Denuvo is still fully intact in D2 (it's fake denuvo license generator)
But they released new beta patch today (for full version) for D2, that supposedly increases performance.
id Tech 5 is fine if you have a fast CPU. It actually scales very well, with only a small gap between average CPU usage and the highest thread's CPU usage.
The Void Engine derived from id Tech 5 runs poorly and does not seem to scale well. Most of the CPU load is being placed on a single thread. On my 1700X the CPU load is about 20-25% on average, with a single thread running at 85-90% usage.
I'm holding out hope that either Denuvo is the cause of this, and Bethesda removes it now that the game is 'cracked', or that they will be announcing DLC at E3, along with a performance patch that actually fixes the issues.
Even if it's not the cause of performance issues, being cracked - or better yet, having the publisher remove the DRM - is a great thing for game preservation.
I think a lot of console gamers tend to jump into these topics just to point out that "all PC gamers are pirates" or something to that effect, but they don't actually realize that there's a big market for playing older games on PC.
Unlike consoles, you can get the majority of old games to run on a modern PC - though it might take a bit of work - and old copy-protection schemes can often get in the way of that, even if you're trying to play a legitimate copy.
Some publishers have even resorted to distributing cracked versions of their games on digital storefronts since they apparently no longer had access to untouched executables.
There's even been a number of games on Steam that I've actually had to download a crack for, to get the game to run on Windows 10 CU. Crysis was the most recent game I tried where that was my only recourse.
It's easy to see that a majority aren't lost sales. In the hay day of PS2 piracy you could buy a burned DVD for like 5 dollars. Most consumers buying at that level are not suddenly going to buy full price they just aren't going to play the games.
At least todays patch still has Denuvo. (Denuvo "Anti-Tamper" x64 variant #2 detected)
Think of it like this.
Imagine an art gallery. Pictures are banned, but people do it anyway. Now imagine them putting measures to prevent cameras in place. Okay, sure, go ahead. It'd be annoying to not have my phone there, but I can put up with it.
But then it turns out that these measures will burn down all the original paintings if the security company ever goes out of business.
Fuck that. Put in security all you want. I don't mind the performance hit. As long as it doesn't possibly make it impossible to play these games in the future.
Imagine an art gallery. Pictures are banned, but people do it anyway. Now imagine them putting measures to prevent cameras in place. Okay, sure, go ahead. It'd be annoying to not have my phone there, but I can put up with it.
But then it turns out that these measures will burn down all the original paintings if the security company ever goes out of business.
Fuck that. Put in security all you want. I don't mind the performance hit. As long as it doesn't possibly make it impossible to play these games in the future.
SUPARSTARX
Member
Please, if you didn't buy Tekken 7 for PC yet and read about this, don't download it. Go buy it. $41-$50 off GamersGate/Steam for many hours of ass kicking and getting whooped in good glorious 1080p-4k resolution!!
Abilidebob
Member
Of course you can get mad at pirates. When I see a game I loved being pirated to hell and back while getting only small sales, I get angry. But the problem is the solutions to solve that problem either:
1. Get easily bypassed by pirates
2. Inconvenience paying customers
Sometimes even both!
I'd have no problems in a magical DRM solution that fixes 1 and 2.
But as of right now, that utopian DRM doesn't exist. Rime apparently got performance problems because of the way they were using Denuvo. Most Denuvo games are getting cracked super fast. Denuvo games require an online check from time to time.
So, if those DRM solutions don't work, what does? Well, Gabe Newell said, years ago, that piracy is mostly a service problem.
There are pirates that won't ever buy your game, doesn't matter the price or anything else. They are playing your game because they can get it for free, if they can't they just ignore it. You can't really do anything against those pirates but, hey, they also don't cost you a cent.
Then there are the pirates that are pirating because your game is too expensive, because they can't buy it with their currency, because the payment options are unfeasible to them, because your game is always online, etc. That kind of pirate can be "converted" to a paying customer. Hell, that's what happened with me, years and years ago. Here in Brazil, buying a original game, ESPECIALLY a PC game, was something uncommon. Weird.
When I heard about Steam at the time, saw the prices(and discounts!), all the features and so, I got enthralled. When I told my friends I was buying original PC games(in dollars!) they looked funny at me. "Paying for a PC game? Why would you do that?". Nowadays, most of them buy games on Steam.
And, as much as I don't like piracy, I gotta admit that, without piracy, I wouldn't be playing games nowadays, or at least wouldn't be buying as much as I do. I was a pirate because of a "services" problem. If at the time they had a "super Denuvo" I would just ignore all games, instead of becoming involved and getting to be a fan of gaming.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Unless the OS itself is also pirated, which is more common than you know. At the end of the day, pirates will find a way to crack the system, it's inevitable really.
NullPointer
Member
Was Denuvo really responsible for hurting game performance? If so, was that a one-off thing or the usual case?
Denuvo seemed like the perfect DRM in the sense of having a copy protection system in place for a game's important release window, to be removed shortly afterwards. I don't see how anybody could argue against that kind of practice.
Denuvo seemed like the perfect DRM in the sense of having a copy protection system in place for a game's important release window, to be removed shortly afterwards. I don't see how anybody could argue against that kind of practice.
That's actually a bad examples because camera flashes actually degrade older pictures. So protecting then from physical damage is understandable. Piracy does nothing to legally owned games.
haha yea it was in the back of my mind as I was making the post.
PC is great but can be bad. Like I said double edge sword. People want 100% access to their stuff which is fine but how far are you given access that its starts to affect sales?
Come on, you know that's very much not relevant. The point is that you're hanging the fate of a work of art on a company that might just go out of business. And if the DRM doesn't get cracked, or if the developer doesn't care, that's that.
GhostTrick
Banned
This argument died a long ago.
Piracy affecting sales on PC is history now. There are many games that sold really well, despite having DRM free versions available on day and date. People will buy games because they like the services that provide these games.
basically
It's not the first time I read this, but does it really happen that often ?
Except for when they don't remove it. Which is the case for many games with denuvo.
Witcher 3 sold more copies on PC than both consoles combined, and it was 100% DRM free from day 1.
It's been used in approximately 70 games and removed from 7.
You'd have to awfully optimistic to assume they'll go back and patch all of them.
Personally, i wouldn't have anything against this practice, but nobody has actually been doing this so the point is kinda moot imho.
Only 7 games have removed Denuvo, 5 of those because it was cracked anyways.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
If only Denuvo was removed after 6 months or so. Very few games have removed it even after crack.
RIME seems like it was an extreme case. In most cases it's minimal (Officially, Denuvo claims no performance penalty, Lords of the Fallen dev said 1-5%)
Maybe I'm too hung up on the thought of pirates playing a game they didn't pay a cent for. It especially bothers me because many are very dishonest and even smug about their motives, like one person in this thread says pirates are like Robin Hood and game companies are evil. Also I don't like their sense of entitlement for playing a game they can't afford at lauch, since most likely they actually could afford it atleast later on with a discount. And since I personally know few people like this and been trying to debate with them on these issues without any positive result it frustrates me.
But yeah the issue in Brazil was just brought to my attention too and I'd hope Bethesda would get the same hostility from people as Denuvo does for actually directly fucking the customer in Brazil. Since their games are much more expensive than PC games from other publishers in there.
Are you using Gamingbolt article as a source for this? I'm not sure if you should. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1116442 Hard to believe that there would have been such a shift, even with great discounts PC usually has. Also the comments on the article seem to imply for it to not be accurate. In the interview it's specified that most Witcher sales in Poland are on PC.
Okay, it did feel like I must have missed many news of devs removing Denuvo but it seems like I'm not the one who was mistaken.
I think its more about morality. Why should I buy games with money when people can get it for free? Saying that pirates wouldnt buy the games anyways is not an excuse for not agreeing with DRM. Its not really ok to shoplift in a store and then say that person wouldnt have bought it anyways.
NullPointer
Member
Gotcha.
That at least explains the negativity towards it in this thread. I thought it was a pretty common practice to remove it after the release period, in which case I'd consider it copy-protection done right. Its too bad that its the exception and not the rule. Thanks for clearing things up for me.
Forsaken82
Member
I can't speak for the sales, but what I can say is for every cracked copy of the game, someone is buying a legit copy that they can't use because their key has already been used by someone using a keygen, so you could argue it hurts sales as I am pretty sure said person asks for a refund.
I don't know what they use but if I'm not mistaken cracked copy of Football Manager has gone on for quite some time to be unplayable. And from what I play, the legit copy has no performance drawback at all. Maybe the publisher should just looked for a smarter solution or go "screw it" with DRM like CDPR and let the Goodwill pay off (although this is very naive of me).