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Raise the flame shield: Your "controversial" gaming opinion.

The Last of Us is hugely overrated, the Polygon score was both fine and the reaction to it was an embarrassment.

Xbox 360 was a better console than the PS3.

The asymmetrical Xbox gamepad sucks.

The PSP is the best post-GBA handheld system.

Ubisoft, EA and Activision are all perfectly okay and the hate for them isn't as deserved as it was in the past

I like the Ubisoft Game design

WB and Deep Silver are the more deserving """"evil"""" publishers
 

Bennettt2

Member
FFXV is going to have some embarrassingly bad writing that could potentially break the game, but I will play it till the very end because the combat will surprisingly pull through and it's the sole game I've waited for for 10 years that would justify my gamer identity.

"Make or break game" is apt.
 
I'm also of the opinion that the new Zelda isn't groundbreaking in any way. If the game was named "Adventures Of Thelma": Life Of The Forest and it was a new IP,no one would bat an eye.

We don't need to make up scenarios. There already is another great looking survival adventure set in a similar, nature-focused open world coming and it's totally ignored because it doesn't have the Zelda brand attached (WiLD).
Zelda looks great, but not like the second coming and really benefits heavily from the brand. That shouldn't even be controversial, but common sense.
 
I don't think the Borderlands games are great, maybe even not that good. I always get bored in the middle of them and never play them again.
 

MCN

Banned
This is an excellent post.
I'm still excited to play it, but anyone trying to pass it off as something new and special needs to get their head checked. There was a time when Zelda was defining genres, but that time has loooooong passed.

It's new and special in the context of a Zelda game. Besides, no game I've played (except for maybe Just Cause and Red Faction Guerrilla) allows so much interaction with the environment.

In most open world games the environment is merely there to look pretty and stop you falling into a void. You can't actually interact with it in any meaningful way. You can interact with NPCs and objects, but nothing else. You use a fire spell on a tree? It's just going to sit there completely unaffected except maybe a black decal being applied for a few minutes. You swing your sword in a field of grass? Literally fuck all happens. Try to cut down a tree? You can't. It might even give off sparks for some reason. You can Fus Roh Dah a giant mammoth until it falls over, but a small rock nearby is completely unaffected.

That is the key difference.
 

Terrorblot

Member
Nintendo hasn't contributed a legitimate innovation I'm the industry since the analog stick.

You can criticize motion control all you want but it doesn't stop the fact that Microsoft and Sony have spent the last decade trying to capture what the Wii managed to, just look at how many Microsoft E3 conferences were devoted to the Kinect. Just because you weren't the target demo doesn't mean it wasn't innovative, it changed the game.
 
It's new and special in the context of a Zelda game. Besides, no game I've played (except for maybe Just Cause and Red Faction Guerrilla) allows so much interaction with the environment.

In most open world games the environment is merely there to look pretty and stop you falling into a void. You can't actually interact with it in any meaningful way. You can interact with NPCs and objects, but nothing else. You use a fire spell on a tree? It's just going to sit there completely unaffected except maybe a black decal being applied for a few minutes. You swing your sword in a field of grass? Literally fuck all happens. Try to cut down a tree? You can't. It might even give off sparks for some reason. You can Fus Roh Dah a giant mammoth until it falls over, but a small rock nearby is completely unaffected.

That is the key difference.

Stop making sense. Nintendo sucks and their games look like they run on a ps2 and motion controls are the spawn of satan
 
Well, I have enough faith in Nintendo that there will be a sense of adventure and mystery as always. Yeah, maybe it's not technically innovative, but most open world games are full of filler shit with quest compass design.
 
I wish game developers would cut back on going with realistic aesthetics for games. Yes it's impressive that we're now able to make worlds that look like real life, but it's done so much nowadays that it's starting to get old. Even though the Zelda demo isn't technically impressive, the artstyle is so good that it actually makes you want to explore that particular world instead of exploring yet another version of New York. Hopefully the success of games like Overwatch will tell developers that using a more artistic aesthetic can actually be successful.
 

AfroDust

Member
You can criticize motion control all you want but it doesn't stop the fact that Microsoft and Sony have spent the last decade trying to capture what the Wii managed to, just look at how many Microsoft E3 conferences were devoted to the Kinect. Just because you weren't the target demo doesn't mean it wasn't innovative, it changed the game.

True innovation doesn't JUST spawn copycats. It makes it so that people don't know how they got along without whatever that innovation was prior to its introduction, and becomes ubiquitous across platforms from then on. That doesn't describe the WiiMote, Kinect, or Move. The overwhelming majority of gamers have demonstrated that they would still rather play on a traditional gamepad. Even Nintendo itself opted for a more traditional controller with the Wii U *touchscreen aside*, recognizing that the motion controller ultimately didn't have staying power. It's high time that people recognize that the Wii was a fad. One that somehow managed to sell 100 million units, but a fad nonetheless. People buy into the rhetoric that nintendo constantly innovates with their hardware, when what they ACTUALLY have done for the past decade is introduce gimmicks that even they don't fully leverage.
 


I'm also of the opinion that the new Zelda isn't groundbreaking in any way. If the game was named "Adventures Of Thelma": Life Of The Forest and it was a new IP,no one would bat an eye. PS2 level graphics and game mechanics (Shadow of the Colossus meets Dark Cloud), empty world that makes MSGV's look like the Witcher 3, and generally nothing novel. I have no personal connection to the series so I want to believe that my opinion is unbiased. I truly believe if this game wasnt a Nintendo game no one would care.

I know I sound controversial but that's my opinion. I'm sure the game will still be fun but people are giving it "10 out of 10s" already just because Zelda is in the the title.

.

True innovation doesn't JUST spawn copycats. It makes it so that people don't know how they got along without whatever that innovation was prior to its introduction, and becomes ubiquitous across platforms from then on. That doesn't describe the WiiMote, Kinect, or Move. The overwhelming majority of gamers have demonstrated that they would still rather play on a traditional gamepad. Even Nintendo itself opted for a more traditional controller with the Wii U *touchscreen aside*, recognizing that the motion controller ultimately didn't have staying power. It's high time that people recognize that the Wii was a fad. One that somehow managed to sell 100 million units, but a fad nonetheless. People buy into the rhetoric that nintendo constantly innovates with their hardware, when what they ACTUALLY have done for the past decade is introduce gimmicks that even they don't fully leverage.

You're right; People aren't going to want motion controls with their vr games / experiences
 
True innovation doesn't JUST spawn copycats. It makes it so that people don't know how they got along without whatever that innovation was prior to its introduction, and becomes ubiquitous across platforms from then on.

That would be touchscreen gaming, which was made first popular with the DS before iphones came along.

That doesn't describe the WiiMote, Kinect, or Move. The overwhelming majority of gamers have demonstrated that they would still rather play on a traditional gamepad. Even Nintendo itself opted for a more traditional controller with the Wii U *touchscreen aside*, recognizing that the motion controller ultimately didn't have staying power. It's high time that people recognize that the Wii was a fad. One that somehow managed to sell 100 million units, but a fad nonetheless. People buy into the rhetoric that nintendo constantly innovates with their hardware, when what they ACTUALLY have done for the past decade is introduce gimmicks that even they don't fully leverage.

Motion controls, including PS Move, are still here (to stay) thanks to VR.
 
I think there is a large number of people not only on this forum but in gaming general who want to see microsoft fail. Im mostly platform agnostic leaning towards xbox ( a console libertarian if you will ). The play anywhere initiative is great but it seems like all people are doing with that is using it as fuel for the "xbox is doomed lol" fire. I think microsoft has been making some really great strides this generation and it makes the xbox a great place to play. Im glad more people will get to experience their exclusives now but I dont think thats going to stop console people (which yes, there are still alot of) from buying an xbox if they dont want to go through the trouble of maintaining a pc. And I get it, the xbox doesnt have the world wide appeal that playstation has and I dont see that changing in a lot of european countries and certainly not in japan. but it doesnt mean its not been three great consoles none the less.
 

Azoor

Member
I hate how some people preemptively judge games before they're even released. Not a Zelda fan but I rather wait until the game is released before we dismiss it or praise it.
 

GoldStarz

Member
True innovation doesn't JUST spawn copycats. It makes it so that people don't know how they got along without whatever that innovation was prior to its introduction, and becomes ubiquitous across platforms from then on. That doesn't describe the WiiMote, Kinect, or Move. The overwhelming majority of gamers have demonstrated that they would still rather play on a traditional gamepad. Even Nintendo itself opted for a more traditional controller with the Wii U *touchscreen aside*, recognizing that the motion controller ultimately didn't have staying power. It's high time that people recognize that the Wii was a fad. One that somehow managed to sell 100 million units, but a fad nonetheless. People buy into the rhetoric that nintendo constantly innovates with their hardware, when what they ACTUALLY have done for the past decade is introduce gimmicks that even they don't fully leverage.
So 'TRUE' innovation is completely subjective and thus you're always right or at the very least never wrong. Okay. I'd accuse you of moving goalposts but you clearly set this up with your original post because you know you're wrong
 

Osiris397

Banned
The Order 1886 is better than Gears of War PERIOD...
(has more differentiated game mechanics and is a marginally better cover based shooter)


Also...
Both Halo and Gears of War are 10+ year old franchises that need to be shelved for about a decade before revisiting them, but of course M$ is going to grind them down till the hub cap falls off.
 

AfroDust

Member
.



You're right; People aren't going to want motion controls with their vr games / experiences

I know you're being sarcastic, but I actually think that statement is true. VR is so cost prohibitive and limited by the need for high end hardware to take advantage of it that I don't really think the market is ready for it anyway, but of course we'll have to wait and see. PSVR probably has the best chance of bringing VR to the masses, but again, I personally don't see it taking off and I believe all the hubbub around it will fade with time. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong but we'll see. It's still possible to play VR with a traditional gamepad correct? If so, then I suspect that is how most people will opt to experience VR.
 

danmaku

Member
Not to mention, that I don't recall seeing similar comments about Steam exclusives, that don't appear on consoles.

Steam exclusives require you to install a free program to play them. Console exclusives require you to spend hundreds of € to play them. Hardly the same situation. Also, PC has no de iure exclusives. If a game doesn't get ported to consoles is because devs/publishers can't/don't want to port it, not because a contract explicitly forbids them to do so.
 

El_Cinefilo

Member
I think the reveal trailer of Zelda to the E3 gameplay is a watch dogs level downgrade, but there's no hate because Nintendo

Speaking of which some of the Ubisoft bashing on these boards (like in Watch Dogs 2 threads) is embarrassing.

I don't know if this is controversial but I'll be far more interested in getting an NX if it has a regular style controller as standard. (thinking about that I haven't liked a Nintendo controller since the SNES. I didn't play the gamecube much)

PS4 hasn't had a remotely good fall lineup so far this gen and it's not going to change this year (Not a GT fan. IF it doesn't get delayed)

We won't see Death Stranded for 5 years.
 

AfroDust

Member
So 'TRUE' innovation is completely subjective and thus you're always right or at the very least never wrong. Okay. I'd accuse you of moving goalposts but you clearly set this up with your original post because you know you're wrong


Not saying that at all, but I'd be interested in knowing how you define innovation personally. Based on my own observation, that's what it means to me. If I believed I was wrong, I wouldn't have made such a bold claim in the first place, and I stand by it, but I'm willing to entertain other opinions.
 
I'm still extremely hyped for scalebound dispite how most felt about the trailer. Still looked amazing and from the interview it was only the first boss fight or one of the. So it would make sense it's not as exciting or grand as scale as some of the final boss fights. it's still a day 1 for me and it's a shame some bashed it so hard just from looking at a trailer.
 

AfroDust

Member
So touchscreen gaming, which was made first popular with the DS before iphones came along.





Motion controls, including PS Move, are still here (to stay) thanks to VR.


I might have to give you hand you the W on touchscreen point.


As for motion controls being here to stay, I guess, but still, probably not as how the majority of gamers will choose to experience their games. I'm still not entirely convinced that VR is going to take off and become ubiquitous, at least in its current form. I suspect that enthusiasts, who make up a small segment of the market, will embrace it strongly, but the public at large will continue playing games as they always have and are so used to, on a traditional gamepad in front of a television screen.
 

Melchiah

Member
Steam exclusives require you to install a free program to play them. Console exclusives require you to spend hundreds of € to play them. Hardly the same situation. Also, PC has no de iure exclusives. If a game doesn't get ported to consoles is because devs/publishers can't/don't want to port it, not because a contract explicitly forbids them to do so.

So, what's the actual difference with not being able to play big PC exclusives on consoles and not being able to play Sony's games on PC? Other than the latter have been funded to sell the platform, and since they aren't selling an operating system there's no point in releasing them on PC. So, basically they don't want to release it on PC either. I'd also need to buy a beefier PC to replace my laptop to be able to play them, just like you'd have to buy a console. Seems a pretty similar situation on both sides.
 

eXistor

Member
Horizon: Zero Dawn is gonna be all flash and no substance. It looks pretty, but it's gonna be a repetitive and shallow game. It'll sell millions and won't deserve the sales.
 
I'm somewhat excited for it...but nothing in that Spider-Man trailer looked fresh or new for the franchise/character. Yeah it's Spider-Man swinging around, jumping on cars, silent takedowning, auto-parkouring, etc.. We've done all of that before in other games.

If anyone else but Sony was behind it, there would pages upon pages with people whining if it'll have SM2 swinging or not
 

El_Cinefilo

Member
I'm somewhat excited for it...but nothing in that Spider-Man trailer looked fresh or new for the franchise/character. Yeah it's Spider-Man swinging around, jumping on cars, silent takedowning, auto-parkouring, etc.. We've done all of that before in other games.

If anyone else but Sony was behind it, there would pages upon pages with people whining if it'll have SM2 swinging or not

I have to disagree (Assuming you can do that in the game)

ConventionalJitteryAmurminnow.gif
 
I don't think the Borderlands games are great, maybe even not that good. I always get bored in the middle of them and never play them again.

I feel the same exact way. Never even touched the DLC from the season pass I bought with 2. I managed to complete the game once, but had no desire to keep going, even when playing with friends.

Nintendo hasn't contributed a legitimate innovation in the industry since the analog stick.

Agreed.

___________

Here's mine:

2D Mario games never got any better after 3.

3D world is the worst 3D Mario game. You actually have to play through a bad, boring game before you can play the "good" part. The pacing is awful. Forced collectables (in a platformer that should reward skill) for progression has never been a good idea. The camera perspective worked better in 3D Land on 3DS (where there was... actual 3D!).
 
I have to disagree (Assuming you can do that in the game)

ConventionalJitteryAmurminnow.gif

Could totally be wrong but, this seems like a canned animation maybe the start to a mission or something, doesn't seem like something you have complete control of.

The fact that insomniac is making it, they have time, and I assume a AAA budget to makes me think it will be great, and sets it apart from every other Spider-Man game announcement.
 

dude

dude
Tell me a hardware product that doesn't have exclusive Software? Mac, Windows, iOS devices, Android devices, Samsung TVs and etc they all have exclusive software and apps. Exclusivity has existed since the dawn of computers and Video games. I'm not arguing it's pro consumer or anything like that but I do wonder why this question is being raised more recently by a lot of people. I can't help but feel that it coincide with the rise of PC Master Race people and the whole Valve doesn't like exclusivity therefore Steam and Valve "fanboys" are the one who started raising that question recently because of their emotional connection to a consumer product.
OK, first of all, just to get the fallacy out of the way - The fact this happens on hardware unrelated to gaming does not make it a good thing, or less bullshit. It just means the problem is bigger.
Anyway, I will try to use neutral language in regards to software in this post just so I'm not accused again of applying this logic only to games.

I think I should have elaborated that there are different kinds of exclusivity. For an obvious example, if any software requires a technical specification or control scheme that is not supported in another hardware, it will have to be exclusive to the hardware that supports the software as it was intended to run. If you need a motion detector for the application to work, it's obvious for it not to be available on hardware that lack that feature. There is also "exclusivity" caused by financial considerations of the developers. Some software sell less on certain hardware, and sometimes porting is too expensive for small teams. Its understandable for teams to make an informed decision on where to launch their products to minimize cost and maximize profits. I am not asking for all software to be available everywhere out of blind principle. I would WANT that, and I think that is what we should strive for, but I am quite aware this is a financial impossibility.
But, all of those types of "exclusivity" are mandated by the reality of software development and decided on by the team. But there is also exclusivity mandated from above, by a stakeholder in a hardware or platform. Exclusivity that is paid (in whatever form) in order to lock a certain software in a certain hardware. It has nothing to do with the developmental/artistic/whatever considerations of the team outside of "would the benefits they are offering us make up for it." In a way, it's a disruption to the natural process of the team deciding how to develop and market their product.
I think this type of exclusivity is less common outside of gaming. I can't think of many hardware-owners who actively pay teams to develop their software exclusively for their platform. Even as far as "first-party" software is concerned. Google release most of their software on iOS as well, MS release much of their software on macOS and iOS and Android. Apple is of course, as always, the asshole of the bunch. It seems clear that while these companies compete on platform, they realize they must also remain competitive as app developers. Of course Google wants as many Android handsets with the Play store out there, and they'll want to make it as competitive a platform as possible, but that has nothing to do with making Google Maps as competitive a app as possible (which includes making it as widely available as possible). They need to balance these two roles. This is part of the reason I find the oft-used argument "The game wouldn't be made otherwise" weak. If Nintendo, for instance, wants to enter as a publisher for a game, they are free to do so, but I don't think mandated exclusivity should be a mixed into the deal, at the very least not as a default condition. They need to sort their "game publisher" and "platform holder" hats and make the best decisions as the hat they currently have on.
Now, of course whatever I'm saying applies to ANY gaming platform, not just hardware. Be it Origin, Steam, Windows/Xbox Store etc. "PC" is irrelevant in this sort of discussion.

So, to make clear what I'm saying, let's use an hypothetical example. Let's say Naughty Dog is developing the hypothetical The Crash of Us. To best focus their resources, they develop exclusively for PS5. This is fine, it make sense to work on hardware they have access to and are familiar working with. It's not ideal for people who don't own the platform, but it's understandable at the very least. What's important here is that is was not the ONLY decision they could have made as a team. Because if they had the choice, maybe once they finish the game and move over to the next project, they'll want to outsource porting the game to another platform, because like all artists they want to reach as big of an audience as possible. Or maybe they'll want to start developing on multiple platforms because the game's online mode works best with as many players as possible.

Not to mention, that I don't recall seeing similar comments about Steam exclusives, that don't appear on consoles.
Now, both of you talked about Valve and Steam, which I did not mention at all in my post. Now, you can have fun beating on the straw man for all I care, but just to make clear: If Valve will be mandating for teams how to release their games, they take part in this bullshit practice. But most of the "exclusives" on Steam either stem from the easier/cheaper access to PC development and release channels, marketability of the games on consoles etc. I mean, I'd like for all PC games to be available on consoles, but as I said, it's understandable if this is not always the case or if it takes a while to happen because of considerations taken by the team in order to make the game the best it can possibly be in every form it's released on.

That came out longer then I expected.
 

Melchiah

Member
Now, both of you talked about Valve and Steam, which I did not mention at all in my post. Now, you can have fun beating on the straw man for all I care, but just to make clear: If Valve will be mandating for teams how to release their games, they take part in this bullshit practice. But most of the "exclusives" on steam either stem from the easier/cheaper access to PC development and release channels, marketability of the games on consoles etc. I mean, I'd like for all PC games to be available on consoles, but as I said, it's understandable if this is not always the case or if it takes a while to happen because of considerations taken by the team in order to make the game the best it can possibly be in every form it's released on.

That came out longer then I expected.

I mentioned Steam as I was replying to a post that brought it up, not to yours.

Here's your original post:
Game platform exclusivity is bullshit that needs to go away and I immediately assume that anyone who argues otherwise is doing it entirely out of "fanboyism" and a need to protect their weird emotional connection to a consumer product.
In a better world, people would sound their displeasure of any product launched that is platform-exclusive, like we're seeing with VR-exclusivity.

And here's a couple of mine from another thread, that circles around the same subject.

Because they want the games, but don't want to buy the consoles. When they say it's better for consumers, they're really saying it's better for them. If all console games were available on PC, it would remove the reason to buy a console, and in the end the console gamers would have no choice than to move to PC gaming, under Microsoft's umbrella. So, how is it serving the interests of those, who don't want to end up playing on PC?
What about Nintendo?

Here's a quote from Yoshida.

http://www.gamereactor.eu/grtv/?id=179604&l=event
It’s a hit-driven business. We look at our financial results of the titles, and probably three or four out of ten make money, and maybe one or two make all the money to cover the cost of the others titles. So we have to be able to maintain that hit ratio at a certain level to be able to continue in the business, so we always try to find out and support and help grow the talent. That’s the most important work that I believe myself and some of my management team at worldwide studios are doing.

There are lots of opportunities. There are so many projects that we want to do, and especially there are so many different techs, platforms and or devices that we can release games, but we have finite resources and budget, we have to make selection choices.

You really think they'd continue the same way, if they hadn't a platform to sell?


EDIT: BTW, I didn't say they would bow out of the market, I said that without their own platform they would have no reason to continue making a variety of games, that might or might not sell. They'd most likely just concentrate on making those type of games that have a better chance of selling well, and eventually making their games less varied.
 
While I love most Bethesda published games (Doom is my GOTY), their Bethesda Games Studio team makes utter shit. Uninspired, bland, janky, broken, ugly, poorly designed bollocks.
 
Video Games are better than they've ever been and the NES-Gamecube eras are incredibly overrated.

People who replay(and collect) old shit they've played 100 times instead of something new or interesting are weirdos

Uncharted 4 is the best Uncharted.

Crash Warped is the best Crash.

Naughty Dog is the best dog.

more accurately,

Uncharted isn't a very good series

Crash belongs in the same conversations as aero the acrobat and wally bear and the no gang.

Naughty Dog has only ever made 1 game that is above average and that's the last of us.
 

Melchiah

Member
Video Games are better than they've ever been and the NES-Gamecube eras are incredibly overrated.

People who replay(and collect) old shit they've played 100 times instead of something new or interesting are weirdos

I partly agree with you. I hold no special love for the 8/16-bit eras, while I feel some nostalgia towards C64 and Amiga, but PS1/2 eras were awesome, particularly for a horror fan. Games are so much better now compared to the C64/Amiga days.

I've never understood why some cling so strongly to the past. Perhaps they just need to broaden their horizons and move on with the times, if all the cynicism is about having strictly limited tastes in game genres (ie. JRPGs).
 

SCB3

Member
Mine:

The Last of Us is a bit mediocre in my opinion

More due the controls that include awful shooting and tacked on shiv combat for the clickers, the story is fine and enjoyable if not a bit cliched and obvious in places.
 
Horizon: Zero Dawn is gonna be all flash and no substance. It looks pretty, but it's gonna be a repetitive and shallow game. It'll sell millions and won't deserve the sales.

I'm not sure if I agree with the "won't deserve the sales" part of this post, but I'm worried that, once the game is out, I'll agree with the rest.
 

GamerJM

Banned
I'm somewhat excited for it...but nothing in that Spider-Man trailer looked fresh or new for the franchise/character. Yeah it's Spider-Man swinging around, jumping on cars, silent takedowning, auto-parkouring, etc.. We've done all of that before in other games.

If anyone else but Sony was behind it, there would pages upon pages with people whining if it'll have SM2 swinging or not

I'm assuming the faith behind it moreso comes from the fact that it's developed by Insomniac, who showcased that they have movement mechanics in a more open game down with Sunset Overdrive.
 

HokieJoe

Member
I don't have a problem with a mobile phone hardware suscription model for consoles if that consistent revenue stream means the industry remains profitable and healthy.

/Nomex flame suit on
 
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