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[leandrochiarello]

I'm in total agreement, and I didn't like either Skyrim nor Witcher 3. In fact, I guess that could be my controversial opinion - I do not find that the western, open world RPGs fun at all. I tried to get into Witcher 3 multiple times and never really got anywhere in it. I can totally see why others like it, but it's just not my bag, baby.

Also, I prefer high resolutions over high framerates. Tell that to some PCMasterRace people and they'll flip out on you for it.

I like both games, but really don't get into witcher's combat, the story and graphics/locations kept me interested but didn't really liked the magic and the melee controls, i feel its floaty and quite boring.
I know why people say Skyrim combat is weak, sometimes you hit the enemies and it feels like nothing happened, but even so the amount of magic variations, archery make up for it (and i dont think the melee is that bad).
Played witcher once, dont really want to go back for it. 400 hours on skyrim, still having fun (multiple characters/playthroughs).

 

[Tain]

Witcher 3 has more content than Street Fighter. I'd consider that a fact.

idk how this is consistently measurable at all, at least to the point where I'd be comfortable stating it as fact.

Unless you're talking about, like, raw asset data, in which case yeah it probably is, but not by a whole lot

 

[pretty done]

Judging by what I see on pretty much any souls thread that's far from an uncommon opinion

Definitely uncommon. Most hardcore Souls fans consider DS2 to be the worst. It's pretty much only the PC crowd that likes DS2 since the port wasn't bad.

 

[LordRaptor]

Here's a controversial one amidst current moral panic; Gambling is fun.

It should be legislated to keep the game honest, and it should be regulated to stop minors from participating just as any other vice should be, but for consenting adults?

Shits fun. Sorry, just is.

You don't need to trick people into gambling, they'll happily participate if game looks legit. Same as drug dealers don't have to work very hard to 'push' drugs.

 

[Bedameister]

I love the Soulsborne games

I don't like it's boss fights.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Here's a controversial one amidst current moral panic; Gambling is fun.

It should be legislated to keep the game honest, and it should be regulated to stop minors from participating just as any other vice should be, but for consenting adults?

Shits fun. Sorry, just is.

You don't need to trick people into gambling, they'll happily participate if game looks legit. Same as drug dealers don't have to work very hard to 'push' drugs.

I think you mean "Gambling is okay." I'm pretty sure most people would agree that gambling is fun, no controversy there.

---

Mine, off the top of my head: 3D Zelda games aren't very good, especially compared to the 2D ones (DS titles aside...).

Link's Awakening, Link to the Past, Link Between Worlds, the Oracle games, Minish Cap.... i'd much rather play any of those before I touch Ocarina, Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword again.

 

[LordRaptor]

I think you mean "Gambling is okay." I'm pretty sure most people would agree that gambling is fun, no controversy there.

I've seen a bunch of arguments along the lines of people offering gambling opportunities are sleazy Rasputin types using sophisticated jedi mind tricks to steal money from idiots and the vulnerable.

Nope.

It's fun.

e:
disclaimer about consenting adults without psychological issues and fair games of chance

 

[HotHamBoy]

I've seen a bunch of arguments along the lines of people offering gambling opportunities are sleazy Rasputin types using sophisticated jedi mind tricks to steal money from idiots and the vulnerable.

Nope.

It's fun.

On the other hand, I think the poker boom shows that people love gambling, especially when it's against other people.

 

[Trojan]

I'm playing Undertale right now and I'm not really enjoying it.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I'm playing Undertale right now and I'm not really enjoying it.

The game does take some time to get going. It gets a lot more interesting as it progresses.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

The most fatal flaw a game can make is not respecting my time. This isn't super controversial, but I extend it to stuff like Souls games - making me replay a section of the game over and over, as punishment for dying at the boss. Horrendous.

Shallow games in every genre should be embraced as a good "entry point" into the genre. Mobile gaming should be fully embraced by the gaming community and people should be tying together genre connections. "Hey you like this RTS-ish mobile strategy game? You should try StarCraft II on casual, it has a good tutorial, you might like it." Hardcore gamer mentalities are detrimental to this and as such detrimental to the medium.

I think mobile gaming is a place for great innovation, but a lot of gamers are too snooty to play there because of casual connotations or generalizing the whole platform as F2P garbage. If more gamers embraced the platform, it would be better for the industry as a low barrier to entry way to have real games (which exist and aren't hard to find). Plus, touch screen gaming can be surprisingly good for a great deal of genres, if you only give them a chance. If you look around, most people will find mobile gaming to be a surprisingly fantastic successor to handheld gaming.

There's a huge difference between low-end PC gaming and any other form of PC gaming. I think a lot of gamers may have tried low-end PC gaming with a shitty GPU and assumed the whole thing is too much work. This is how I felt until I made a $600 PC (with a bunch of reused parts it cost me less than that) - now I see how different the experience is. With the new, reasonably priced GPUs coming out, the price for a quality PC experience is getting lower and lower.

 

[kromeo]

The most fatal flaw a game can make is not respecting my time. This isn't super controversial, but I extend it to stuff like Souls games - making me replay a section of the game over and over, as punishment for dying at the boss. Horrendous.

I love the 2 souls games I've played but that is easily the worst thing about them. they can make the bosses as hard as they like but there's no reason to not be able to warp right back to them after you die for the 20th time

 

[dude]

I love the Soulsborne games

I don't like it's boss fights.

I like the boss fights in Dark Souls, but they were my least favorite part.

 

[Tain]

The most fatal flaw a game can make is not respecting my time. This isn't super controversial, but I extend it to stuff like Souls games - making me replay a section of the game over and over, as punishment for dying at the boss. Horrendous.

I don't think there's any worthwhile distinction between "this game is unenjoyable" and "this game doesn't respect my time", and I'd much rather frame the situation as me not enjoying the game than the game somehow looking down on me.

 

[LordRaptor]

From a game design perspective, time is literally the only resource you have control of that you can use to 'punish' a player, and basically every game falls back to it, whether thats losing character money, character exp, character equipment, or character progress by teleporting them back to their last checkpoint save - its all player time thats at risk.

It's not coincidental that the most common F2P consumables are time savers, in the form of 'boosters' and what have you.

 

[Ralemont]

I don't think there's any worthwhile distinction between "this game is unenjoyable" and "this game doesn't respect my time", and I'd much rather frame the situation as me not enjoying the game than the game somehow looking down on me.

I think there is. In this case, for example, I love Bloodborne's boss battles. I like how difficult they are. I like dying to a boss. But I don't like running back to the boss each time. It's just a waste of my time. Difficult bosses aren't a waste of time because they are skill tests, which is the point of difficult combat. There's nothing engaging about running through trash enemies and streets you've been to already to get back. This criticism is different in nature than simply "I don't like Bloodborne."

 

[Kai Dracon]

Games like that have been around since last gen as well. Just Cause, Saints Row, and GTA 4/5 all have a lot of dynamic elements. There are probably hundreds of others that feature a lot of the elements that Nintendo proudly displayed as innovative.

So much of this bitterness about hype for the Zelda game still seems to come down to people being annoyed that it caused excitement for such features, as if offended that previous games which had similar features were somehow being insulted.

Besides, some people seem to expect Nintendo reps to come out on a stage and grovel in shame, begging forgiveness every time they announce a new anything. A company is always going to present their products positively and display them proudly.

 

[RionaaM]

I'm playing Undertale right now and I'm not really enjoying it.

Same here. Stopped for a few months, grabbed it again the other day and still haven't finished it. I don't really see why it got all the praise. Sure, the battle system is original, has some nice meta jokes and at times it's self-aware. But I don't see it as such a special and unique game, which is a shame because I was expecting it to be.

 

[Tain]

I think there is. In this case, for example, I love Bloodborne's boss battles. I like how difficult they are. I like dying to a boss. But I don't like running back to the boss each time. It's just a waste of my time. Difficult bosses aren't a waste of time because they are skill tests, which is the point of difficult combat. There's nothing engaging about running through trash enemies and streets you've been to already to get back. This criticism is different in nature than simply "I don't like Bloodborne."

I'd say that's still the same thing, only we're now talking about Bloodborne's retry structure specifically instead of the game as a whole. You don't find that part of Bloodborne consistently enjoyable, the part that makes you repeat encounters with so-called trash mobs, but I did and thus sensed no disrespect of my time. A game that boils down to a series of unenjoyable scenes without any repetition isn't somehow respecting my time more than a game that makes me repeat enjoyable scenes.

 

[Ralemont]

I'd say that's still the same thing, only we're now talking about Bloodborne's retry structure specifically instead of the game as a whole. You don't find that part of Bloodborne consistently enjoyable, the part that makes you repeat encounters with so-called trash mobs, but I did and thus sensed no disrespect of my time. A game that boils down to a series of unenjoyable scenes without any repetition isn't somehow respecting my time more than a game that makes me repeat enjoyable scenes.

I don't see how meaningful game criticism is possible under your very broad umbrella of "it just means you don't like it." Yes, obviously, but there are reasons for it. In Bloodborne's case, it's quite literally a waste of time. You might think that wasting of your time contributes to, say, the tenseness of boss battles, but you aren't actually denying that the game doesn't respect your time in that case. You're just saying the game deliberately doesn't respect your time in order to enhance some other portion for the game. Your initial comment was that "I don't like" and "doesn't respect my time" are equivalent statements, which doesn't make much sense to me.

I personally feel that the "respect my time" criticism is way overused, but that doesn't mean there aren't situations where it's appropriate.

 

[Tain]

I don't see how meaningful game criticism is possible under your very broad umbrella of "it just means you don't like it." Yes, obviously, but there are reasons for it. In Bloodborne's case, it's quite literally a waste of time. You might think that wasting of your time contributes to, say, the tenseness of boss battles, but you aren't actually denying that the game doesn't respect your time in that case. You're just saying the game deliberately doesn't respect your time in order to enhance some other portion for the game. Your initial comment was that "I don't like" and "doesn't respect my time" are equivalent statements, which doesn't make much sense to me.

I personally feel that the "respect my time" criticism is way overused, but that doesn't mean there aren't situations where it's appropriate.

"Meaningful game criticism" to me, in this case, would be closer to an explanation of why repeated encounters in Bloodborne aren't engaging beyond "I've done them before so they aren't". Adamantly calling them "a literal waste of time" without explaining why they don't hold up to repetition isn't very meaningful to me, which is why I initially claimed that there's no worthwhile distinction between this sort of criticism and "it's bad."

 

[keltickennedy]

Huge fan of Remedy Games....

Really dislike Quantum Break. I'm forcing myself to finish it because I am such a fan.

 

[GamerJM]

The most fatal flaw a game can make is not respecting my time. This isn't super controversial, but I extend it to stuff like Souls games - making me replay a section of the game over and over, as punishment for dying at the boss. Horrendous.

I don't see how this is not respecting your time. The game isn't just testing your ability to beat the boss, it's testing your ability to consistently beat the part that you start at until you're able to beat the boss. Just because you beat a segment of a game once doesn't mean you should never have to experience that segment again.

 

[Ralemont]

"Meaningful game criticism" to me, in this case, would be closer to an explanation of why repeated encounters in Bloodborne aren't engaging beyond "I've done them before so they aren't". Adamantly calling them "a literal waste of time" without explaining why they don't hold up to repetition isn't very meaningful to me, which is why I initially claimed that there's no worthwhile distinction between this sort of criticism and "it's bad."

"I've done them before so they aren't" is absolutely a valid criticism of why forcing players to run through the same content again is bad. Beyond that, I already gave you another reason why it's bad, which is that it's not actually a test of anything for the player. You can run through all of them, and even if you don't want to it's the same enemies in the same spots on the same streets as before.

I don't see how this is not respecting your time. The game isn't just testing your ability to beat the boss, it's testing your ability to consistently beat the part that you start at until you're able to beat the boss. Just because you beat a segment of a game once doesn't mean you should never have to experience that segment again.

There's no testing involved. You run through all the enemies to get back to the boss. It's boring and not difficult.

 

[fluxanimator]

I think every game should have an invincibility cheat available or something like it. It can disable cheevos/trophies. But If I spent my $ on a game I'd like to be able to get through it if I get stuck and can't progress normally. Either invincibility or a way to skip to the next part, if that makes sense. Some games have done this already but it would be cool if it was something that was available in 100% of games.

Seems like when something like this is mentioned, the git gud / "hardcore" crowd laugh it away.

 

[GIANKRATOS]

Demon's Souls has aged poorly, and is by far the worst Souls game.

In my opinion it's the one that aged best. Maybe because of its more "arcadey" nature, just go and chose the stage you want.

Dark souls instead, it's the one that i'm reevaluating the most, and in negative.

 

[LordRaptor]

Seems like when something like this is mentioned, the git gud / "hardcore" crowd laugh it away.

I defended easy mode earlier in this thread.
The git-gud crowd only bitch about it if they know about it. Resi 4 has dynamic scaling difficulty thats done in secret and is universally loved.

 

[Tain]

"I've done them before so they aren't" is absolutely a valid criticism of why forcing players to run through the same content again is bad.

Fundamental disconnect here. I can't accept this, context and elaboration-free, as worthwhile criticism (regardless of how we feel about Bloodborne). Not when so many games have used repetition to such excellent degrees over the past 30 years.

 

[Ralemont]

Fundamental disconnect here. I can't accept this, context and elaboration-free, as worthwhile criticism (regardless of how we feel about Bloodborne). Not when so many games have used repetition to such excellent degrees over the past 30 years.

Which games?

 

[Tain]

Which games?

Pretty much all of the action games I've enjoyed over the years have been enhanced by some degree of repetition. R-Type, Super Mario Bros. 3, Revenge of Shinobi, Rondo of Blood, Metal Slug, Denjin Makai II, Far Cry, Ninja Gaiden Black, Dead Rising, Gears of War, Doom 2016, Chronos, you name it. All of these games would be made worse if they never had me repeat anything.

 

[petran79]

Here's my well-thought-out explanation: NOSTALGIA

But seriously, from the moment I first laid eyes on the arcade cabinet in 1986 I was sold. The vibrant colours, the gentle theme tune, the feeling of going on an adventure: it was the kind of game my younger self was yearning for. A couple of years later I was stunned to see a Commodore 64 conversion of Pac-Land (I didn't even know the game was converted to home computers) at my local video game store and promptly picked it up. Thankfully, it was one of the very few non-awful C64 coin-op conversions and I consequently put quite a few hours into the game. It's one of the happiest memories I have of the 8-bit era.

Not long afterwards I played Super Mario Bros. at a friend's place. It was good, but I wasn't blown away. Years later I bought the Wii Virtual Console version and completed it. It was a fun experience, but it could never rival the sensation of exploring the wonders of Pac-Land.

Is nostalgia clouding my judgment? Sure, all the time! Just look at my username

If arcades werent a forbidding zone for minors, especially at evening hours, console and computer games would have been much less popular.

Who'd care about Super Mario Bros if you could play superior arcade games like Bubble Bobble?

 

[Correctomundo]

In my opinion it's the one that aged best. Maybe because of its more "arcadey" nature, just go and chose the stage you want.

Dark souls instead, it's the one that i'm reevaluating the most, and in negative.

I'm currently almost finished with my first run through Demon's Souls after I finished my first time with Dark Souls on the 360 followed by another run on the PS3 just last month, and I've got to agree. I appreciate being able to tackle sections of each world in the order I want.

 

[Cpt Conifer]

The world would be a better place if Hudson/NEC kept making consoles and largely replaced Nintendo right after the 16-bit gen was done. I'm going to engage in the most pointless speculation and say that a PC Engine 2 would have used a controller more like the Hori Mini64 pad from the beginning.

 

[Timu]

Dead or Alive is one of the best 3d fighting games out there, I like it more than most 3D fighters!

 

[hurricanes]

Skyrim combat is better than Witcher 3 combat.

It doesn't matter since chopping cabbage is more fun than both of them(regarding to combat).

 

[eifer]

The witcher 3 is crap because of its awful combat system. If they could replace it with dark souls style combat or zelda style combat, it would be one of the best games ever made.

 

[Disgraced]

The "it's just cosmetics" argument regarding MTs is driving me up the fucking wall more and more.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Majora's Mask is one of my least favorite Zelda games. Skyward Sword is one of my favorites.

Paper Jam and Partners in Time are the best two Mario and Luigi games outside the original. Bowser's Inside Story felt like a spinoff and Dream Team was beautiful, but meandering.

Even if it's not the conclusion I wanted, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 wasn't a bad game, and the stealth sections aren't a good reason to say the entire game is bad.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

The Kremlings are not classic characters and anyone who won't play the Retro-made DK games because they're not in them is a bonehead.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

Diablo 3 today is a better game than Diablo 2 ever was

 

[ryushe]

Diablo 3 today is a better game than Diablo 2 ever was

C'mon, that's just fact at this point.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

C'mon, that's just fact at this point.

You'd be surprised how many people I talk to believe this is pure blasphemy

 

[Zolbrod]

Majora's Mask is one of my least favorite Zelda games. Skyward Sword is one of my favorites.

Paper Jam and Partners in Time are the best two Mario and Luigi games outside the original. Bowser's Inside Story felt like a spinoff and Dream Team was beautiful, but meandering.

I have some similar ones:

Twilight Princess is the most forgettable 3D Zelda game, and Skyward Sword is indeed one of the best.

Paper Mario Sticker Star is an excellent game with some of the best level design in the series and some really fun boss battles.

 

[RandomSeed]

4 hours into Alien: Isolation and I have to say everything is great about it...minus the gameplay. Shit. Going in pretty blind, and I figured the Alien would show up here and there to keep things interesting, but it feels like a crawl and hide simulator (which I guess makes sense) so far. Wish it was more of a "game" to be honest. I fucking LOVE Alien/Aliens, but I don't know if I can do this for 15-20 hours more. I don't even get scared by these types of games anymore, but I can't help but think, "if it spots me, I have to redo all that shit over again."

 

[TharpDaddy]

Guild Wars 2 is super successful, but I think it's pretty bad compared to the original and got rid of a lot of what made Guild Wars 1 so unique. Guild Wars 1 is better in most ways imo, it had such a unique feel to it.

I love the Soulsborne games

I don't like it's boss fights.

I totally agree. Dark Souls 3 is the first Souls game i've beaten, and it's because I just said "fuck it" and summoned for most bosses.

 

[Blueingreen]

Come to think about it GTA Online

Spoiler

and to a lesser extent V

is probably the worst thing to ever happen to Rockstar, by becoming the cash cow of the company I have no doubt's of it's role in the creative bankruptcy that has to be plaguing the developer at this very moment.

For the first 16 years of their inception they were highly prolific releasing on average 1-2 sometimes 3 games a year from open world, stealth, beat em ups, racing games and even sports, since the release of the GTA 5 they've effectively shoved their heads up their own arses whilst subjecting to the perpetual milking of a broken, unbalanced online mode that has annoyingly kept them in the NPD top 10 for 3 years. and possibly for a further 3 years

 

[Langdon Alger]

Dragon's Dogma is quite boring.

 

[GamerJM]

Dead or Alive is one of the best 3d fighting games out there, I like it more than most 3D fighters!

I agree with this. Though, to be fair, there are only really four major 3D fighting games series. One of them I like more than DOA (SoulCalibur), and another I never really got into in the first place (Virtua Fighter). So the only one I know for sure I like more is Tekken. Still the series is overall pretty great.

 

[nick nacc]

Spec ops the line was a waste of time. The gameplay was bland. And the story people seem to love didn't interest or surprise me at all.

 

[Hip Hop]

Spec ops the line was a waste of time. The gameplay was bland. And the story people seem to love didn't interest or surprise me at all.

I thought it was an okay game, but really not on the level that people make it out to be imo.

I thought i was about to play some crazy hidden gem, but nah, it was very average.