Support NeoGAF

[aravuus]

Granted, I have no idea how many people are legally ripping their own ROM for personal use, but I'm going to hazard a guess that it's less than the above.

Okay, so you've got a number, which proves... Fuck all ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Admittedly, I don't really care what you believe, just hope the ban taught you a lesson. The emulator threads are full enough of that sort of ultimately completely irrelevant shitposting.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Okay, so you've got a number, which proves... Fuck all ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Admittedly, I don't really care what you believe, just hope the ban taught you a lesson. The emulator threads are full enough of that sort of ultimately completely irrelevant shitposting.

Have you got any numbers either? I'm someone else that would wager the majority of ROM downloads are from users that don't legally own a copy of the game. That's not to say emulation isn't important and there isn't a legitimate scene there, but I would be surprised if it wasn't outweighed by people downloading games they don't own.

 

[aravuus]

Have you got any numbers either? I'm someone else that would wager the majority of ROM downloads are from users that don't legally own a copy of the game. That's not to say emulation isn't important and there isn't a legitimate scene there, but I would be surprised if it wasn't outweighed by people downloading games they don't own.

I think I might have totally misread Mattenth's original post and now I'm a bit confused. Is he saying that the majority of people who use emulators, use them with pirated ROMs because "emulator ROM" doesn't really make a lot of sense - i.e. emulators enable piracy, they're killing the industry, etc. etc. - or is he saying what you are saying - that most people who download ROMs online most likely don't actually have copies of those game? Because I can agree that the latter is probably fairly likely, and I wouldn't start arguing about it.

Well, either way, nobody has any numbers. That's sort of the point, really. If Mattenth's point was what I thought it was, it's not just endlessly unnecessary speculation, it's irrelevant shitposting that ruins 90% of emulator threads in here. Every goddamn time some people clearly need to get banned before the rest of them realize it's not in fact the thread to post how strongly they feel about emulator users.

 

[Floody]

Fondly sure. I just don't think it will be viewed as incredible over time like Red Dead Redemption or others have.

Think that'll depend on how the sequel(s) go more than anything.
As of now it's up there with pretty much anything from last gen as far as how highly it's viewed.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

I think I might have totally misread Mattenth's original post and now I'm a bit confused. Is he saying that the majority of people who use emulators, use them with pirated ROMs because "emulator ROM" doesn't really make a lot of sense - i.e. emulators enable piracy, they're killing the industry, etc. etc. - or is he saying what you are saying - that most people who download ROMs online most likely don't actually have copies of those game? Because I can agree that the latter is probably fairly likely, and I wouldn't start arguing about it.

The latter is how I read it, but can't say for sure.

Think that'll depend on how the sequel(s) go more than anything.
As of now it's up there with pretty much anything from last gen as far as how highly it's viewed.

I think it's genuinely lost some wind from its sails as time as moved on, the discussion around it just seems to be less consistent than it was. I still think it's thought of as a great game, just often not incredible.

 

[Waxwing]

Best Onimusha game was Onimusha 4: Dawn of Dreams

Multiple playable characters, new secrets and routes to uncover in earlier levels as you progressed, more RPG elements...THE game I most wish would get a remaster at this point.

 

[petran79]

I do have numbers. I'm looking at a torrent for Breath of the Wild's Cemu ROM right now. Looks like about 12k seeders and 5.5k leechers.

I won't post the website, but I'm looking at one with a 92k download counter for Breath of the Wild's Cemu ROM.

Granted, I have no idea how many people are legally ripping their own ROM for personal use, but I'm going to hazard a guess that it's less than the above.

If you count direct download sites, numbers could be 10x more. Actual owners could use those ROMs for personal backup too. Far easier to do.

Cemu is far from being an actual Wii U console replacement. Emulators without save states are risky

 

[Stallion Dan]

Only when it's made by Nintendo do downplay the critical reception.

SS controls were flat out broke and had a button dedicated to fixing them that was needed every few swipes, but there was only one review from a major media presence that even brought it up.

 

[TI82]

3d world sucks big time, worst main Mario game in my opinion.

Same with skyward sword, that game is beyond awful.

 

[Mattenth]

I think I might have totally misread Mattenth's original post and now I'm a bit confused. Is he saying that the majority of people who use emulators, use them with pirated ROMs because "emulator ROM" doesn't really make a lot of sense - i.e. emulators enable piracy, they're killing the industry, etc. etc. - or is he saying what you are saying - that most people who download ROMs online most likely don't actually have copies of those game? Because I can agree that the latter is probably fairly likely, and I wouldn't start arguing about it.

Bolded my point, and just with the added stress of "that's piracy and is illegal."

Is it "killing the industry"? Absolutely not.

Is emulation something that a private individual should be allowed to do? Certainly.

However, that doesn't change the underlying reality: most people who are using an emulator likely do not own the game and likely obtained the ROMs they use illegally.

 

[GamerJM]

So I bought Stardew Valley and it's really slow, hard to understand the basic mechanics, and most of the characters are uninteresting. Even if it somehow picks up it makes a terrible first impression.

I had the same problem and dropped the game after a few hours because there are just so many games out there. I could understand the mechanics and what to do because I've played Harvest Moon games before (a lot of which, by the way, have the opposite problem where they hold your hand for a lot of the game), but I wasn't sure what to focus on or if there was anything tangible that you could progress towards.

 

[Aters]

So I bought Stardew Valley and it's really slow, hard to understand the basic mechanics, and most of the characters are uninteresting. Even if it somehow picks up it makes a terrible first impression.

I'm still salty that this game got all the praise and high scores while stuff like Rune Factory are just left there to die.

 

[Dr. Buni]

3d world sucks big time, worst main Mario game in my opinion.

Same with skyward sword, that game is beyond awful.

Skyward Sword was the best game in the series bar Majora's Mask.

 

[TI82]

Skyward Sword was the best game in the series bar Majora's Mask.

That's your controversial opinion sure, thankfully mine is the one Nintendo seems to be following.

 

[Hephaestus]

I know this is going against the grain here on gaf, but i really really enjoy GAAS games. Since the early days of diablo I have loved the grind, the farming, the loot. It makes me incredibly happy that a lot of big AAA games are going in that direction.
Its come to the point if a game doesn't have loot drops I have no interest in playing it.
may the RNG gods bless you all.

 

[Akiraptor]

Revali is the best champion in all of Hyrule, but I suppose that's not really controversial when you get right down to it. To suggest otherwise would just be...asinine.

Link is the worst one.

 

[FiveSide]

Skyward Sword was the best game in the series bar Majora's Mask.

Just out of curiosity, is the "was" implying that BotW has surpassed it?

If so then I'm assuming your top 3 is BotW > MM > SS, which is the same as mine so...cool.

EDIT: Also, really surprised to see so many negative opinions of BotW in here.

This doesn't really have anything to do with BotW per se, but it kind of makes me wonder if there were equally divisive opinions about Ocarina when it launched.

 

[czk51]

Even knowing full-well what was promised but not delivered, I was happy with No Man's Sky on launch.

 

[Galmteam]

Final Fantasy XV is a horrid game. I don't mean "its not for me" or "fans of the series might enjoy it". Its a legitimately awful game. I'm completely confounded how it got 7s and 8s from major outlets.

It controls terribly.

The combat is a complete mess and is borderline unparsable at times. Felt like someone threw together a combat prototype placeholder and nobody touched it again.

I find the character designs at best boring and at worst completely atrocious

A good portion of the game you are sitting in a car looking at the (admittedly beautiful) scenery soaking in the "roadtrip" feeling of it all. I get what they were going for but for someone like me that enjoyed so little of the game, it just felt like pointless padding.

I could go on, but I think the point is conveyed.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Even knowing full-well what was promised but not delivered, I was happy with No Man's Sky on launch.

Snap. Got 80hrs in it before Atlas Rising, spent time in it until Destiny 2 released and if my backlog wasn't growing I'd be back in it.

 

[VDenter]

3d world sucks big time, worst main Mario game in my opinion.

Same with skyward sword, that game is beyond awful.

Skyward Sword being the worst 3D Zelda is true and not that controversial.

 

[CaviarMeths]

This is more of an observation than an opinion but

I finally understand what people who aren't really into Zelda games are thinking when they look around them and see an ocean of people going nuts over these games and talking about them like a religion.

Because I'm not really into Dark Souls.

 

[klaushm]

The only good Sonic game is All-Star racing. Every Sonic main game was bad.

You need to go fast, don't enjoy the environment or explore, and memorize the level. Basically it is a training to become a speed runner.

And that's why I think it could never be translated well to new games.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

You need to go fast, don't enjoy the environment or explore, and memorize the level. Basically it is a training to become a speed runner.

Not really true. On initial play-through you can explore and enjoy the environment but if you wish to replay the game or aim for a better time then the level design accommodates for faster routes and improving in that sense. It's just the level has everything open and shown at once so it seems conflicting.

I used to struggle with the same thing (everything seems to imply speed yet there's so many areas I'm gunning it past) until Sonic Mania. Now I get it I've found the games much more enjoyable and appreciate the design.

 

[Joey Ravn]

I feel that Cuphead is a landmark game in terms of visuals and aesthetic design and deserves the praise it's getting for it... but it's a thoroughly mediocre game at everything else.

The gameplay is downright bad at times. The parry system is really not needed the way it's implemented. The inclusion of run-and-gun levels ended up hurting the overall experience a lot. It's a baffling decision. If the developers wanted a boss rush game, it should have stuck to their original idea, because the end product is much worse than it could have been otherwise.

In the end, Cuphead is a game that I would have liked a lot more... or rather, liked... if it had been a cartoon instead.

Spoiler

My personal opionion, of course.

 

[Plague Doctor]

I physically cringe when I read dismissive "That's how business works" post whenever a big publisher does something scummy or shadey. I actually want to believe they are paid PR plants or have a vested professional interest in manipulative/cutthroat practices. That would make logical sense why they would play defense. The alternative that they are legit consumers excusing big business for being big business is far more discouraging.

 

[hotcyder]

I would of prefered Cuphead and its art-style be applied to more accessible game-style ie. an Earthbound/Mario + Luigi like RPG

 

[Dervius]

I think that people who proclaim things like "Game XYZ 3 isn't real XYZ anymore", i..e Resident Evil, Max Payne, Zelda or whatever are entitled brats.

I understand where it comes from, you've played a series for years and have a very particular view of what it entails, then the devs (in their hubris) have the nerve to do something different. Want to take their series in a different direction. It does not align with what you liked about earlier entries.

But then people go off on one espousing how that entry isn't a real Resi game or something. I mean come on. Games change, devs go in new and different directions. Get over it.

You don't have to like the new entries, by all means critique them to your hearts content. But to suggest that the devs have forgotten what XYZ series is really about is ridiculous, condescending and often comes off as old man screaming at cloud. "I don't like the direction the series has gone in" is a fine response.

Resident Evil is an excellent example of this with "horror" and "action" Resi. Resident Evil has been tropey and actiony for more years than it was pure horror. Hate it all you like, just don't say "isn't real Resident Evil", and don't call out fans of the newer entries as "not real fans".

 

[Sailor Xan]

I think Shadow the Hedgehog is an underrated game.

Based on reviews, I was expecting it to be shite. And it turned out to be... pretty enjoyable. It's not a great game, but I found it to be... good? The branching paths thing is interesting, and it feels like a sequel to Sonic Adventure 2. At the very least, it's more fun than Sonic Heroes.

 

[Aaron D.]

I know this is going against the grain here on gaf, but i really really enjoy GAAS games.

I think it can be implemented successfully, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

I've been enjoying Crusader Kings 2 for like 5 years now. The experience has been kept constantly fresh as Paradox has released 2 or 3 major expansions every year since launch. It's culminated into an incredibly expansive platform and an amazing experience overall.

Same can be said for other legacy franchises like Train Simulator and Euro Truck Simulator. Devs keeping the base games vibrant and alive by adding new maps & vehicles for years post launch.

Either way, I'm happy to see that some devs/pubs have cracked the code. And I'll continue to endorse their consumer-friendly practices.

.......................................

Now on the flip side, I'm also happy to see the meltdowns over Loot Boxes, endless grinding only solved through Micro-transactions, et al.

The AAA space has a real, legitimate problem with budgeting and it feels as though the $60 price point is no longer enough to recoup development budgets let alone make a profit, bar gang-buster outliers like Rockstar.

I hope the industry can find a way to adjust pricing models beyond the slim profit margins already in place. I don't claim to have the answer, but I feel that predatory practices such as loot boxes are not the ultimate solution.

...........................................

Tangential bottom line. I'm glad to have little to no interest in AAA gaming anymore. Still got a couple franchises in my back pocket, but as for the rest I'm glad to have moved on.

The modern $20 and below market is so much more vibrant, original and diverse. It feels like a true revolution in risk-taking possibility. It's unequivocally the best place to experience the medium right now.

I couldn't be happier with the State of Gaming today thanks to mid-low budget offerings.

............................................

The line for line rebuttal debating on specific opinions over the past few pages is lame as F.

I get follow-up comments. Fine. But the "enthusiasm" in arguing with a microscope the validity of some random opinion has me questioning if I'm looking at the right thread.

This thread is a glorious collection of the good, bad & ugly and I wish its light-hearted intent were honored without hyper-sensitive posters getting so ruffled when there golden calf inevitably falls into the line of fire.

It's okay if your fave is skewered. Even if it doesn't make sense to you.

Seriously. You'll be alright. As will your favorite game.

 

[Manny Calavera]

EDIT: Also, really surprised to see so many negative opinions of BotW in here.

This doesn't really have anything to do with BotW per se, but it kind of makes me wonder if there were equally divisive opinions about Ocarina when it launched.

When something is as popular and acclaimed as Breath of the Wild there's always bound to be some negativity as well and they are usually very vocal with their opinion.

 

[Bakkus]

I think that people who proclaim things like "Game XYZ 3 isn't real XYZ anymore", i..e Resident Evil, Max Payne, Zelda or whatever are entitled brats.

I understand where it comes from, you've played a series for years and have a very particular view of what it entails, then the devs (in their hubris) have the nerve to do something different. Want to take their series in a different direction. It does not align with what you liked about earlier entries.

But then people go off on one espousing how that entry isn't a real Resi game or something. I mean come on. Games change, devs go in new and different directions. Get over it.

You don't have to like the new entries, by all means critique them to your hearts content. But to suggest that the devs have forgotten what XYZ series is really about is ridiculous, condescending and often comes off as old man screaming at cloud. "I don't like the direction the series has gone in" is a fine response.

Resident Evil is an excellent example of this with "horror" and "action" Resi. Resident Evil has been tropey and actiony for more years than it was pure horror. Hate it all you like, just don't say "isn't real Resident Evil", and don't call out fans of the newer entries as "not real fans".

Completely changing the gameplay of an established series? That's what spin-off titles are for!

 

[Elfstar]

Bolded my point, and just with the added stress of "that's piracy and is illegal."

Is it "killing the industry"? Absolutely not.

Is emulation something that a private individual should be allowed to do? Certainly.

However, that doesn't change the underlying reality: most people who are using an emulator likely do not own the game and likely obtained the ROMs they use illegally.

This is in no way controversial, and i think everyone knows that probably most people that post in emulation threads are playing with illegally downloaded roms.

So what? Can you prove it? Can i? No, we can't, period.
Accusing people and inciting witch hunts only turns discussions in giant dumpster fires and nothing else.

That's why you'll get a ban by saying that, and i think that's the right policy to follow after all.


About BOTW: i think it's pretty normal to see some negative opinions about it, because it objectively has some pretty notable flaw that in my opinion too many critics overlooked (like i said, never trust reviews for mainline Zelda games), and it changed the Zelda formula almost entirely, to the point that some fan of the series might not like it anymore.
When the "omg it's a 97 MC game, i can't say anything negative about it or fanboys will freak out and jump at my throat" phase will end i think we'll gradually see more explicit backlash.

Also, being a "vocal minority" doesn't make you any righter or wronger. It's not a clever way to dismiss people's opinions.

 

[BenjaminBeaumont]

Only took 356 pages to devolve into an argument about ROMS and piracy. NeoGaf gonna NeoGaf.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

May as well pop the lid on this one.

I legitimately think this "games should be accessible for everyone" nonsense to be pathetic and massively ignorant or simplistic. Not easy modes themselves, but the expectation of games to have them. Certainly not accessibility mode catering for disabilities either, the wording is slightly overlapping in places so I just wanted to be clear.

That some find something too challenging they have an expectation of the developer to accommodate for that, resulting in a mode that would need to be catered to the player with the lowest possible competency, is stupid. If a mode is offered as standard in a game there's an expectation for that mode to be enjoyable. It's not a case of "oh just throw it in and I won't mind it" because not everyone will have that context for why the mode is there. Making a challenging game (especially those like bullet hell or Soulsborne titles) easier to complete while also fun and retaining enough of the artistic vision of the creator is not as simple as just removing enemies or lowering damage/health values. It would require planning and resources that would inherently impact the budget of the "non easy" side of the game.

It's such a juvenile and arrogant view of things I can't believe it's become a legitimate talking point. If you feel like you should be able to enjoy every game and that the onus is on the developer to achieve that then, honestly, grow up. Developers offering easy modes are awesome, but those that don't in favour of having their creation be a challenge for players shouldn't be criticised.

 

[yuoke]

Not sure how controversial it is, but I'm mostly preferring superstar saga dx so far over the original, and I played that when it first came out. There are a few small nitpicks, but the music remixes are all good and the visuals are great. The controls bring better is the main thing though

 

[LegendX48]

Just out of curiosity, is the "was" implying that BotW has surpassed it?

If so then I'm assuming your top 3 is BotW > MM > SS, which is the same as mine so...cool.

EDIT: Also, really surprised to see so many negative opinions of BotW in here.

This doesn't really have anything to do with BotW per se, but it kind of makes me wonder if there were equally divisive opinions about Ocarina when it launched.

Divisive opinions about Ocarina? There very likely were many but they were harder to come across without the internet like it is today. I for one like seeing BOTW get more hate, most disappointing Zelda game of all time for me.

 

[pinkurocket]

Reading this page I'm gonna say that I felt Skyward Sword's motion controls were just as accurate as button controls.

 

[Elfstar]

The most negative opinions about OOT that i've heard at the time were mostly stuff like "It's just ALTTP in 3d", or "ALTTP was better", and of course "water temple sucks", but nothing too crazy or extreme.

The "divisiveness era" of Zelda games started with Majora's Mask, at the time a lot of people found it too dark, weird and strange, and only in recent times everyone started to love it almost unanimously.
Then we had two entire generations (Wind Waker-Twilight Princess-Skyward Sword) of inconsistent/flawed/controversial entries, and that's what splitted the fanbase in the last 15 years the most, i think.

 

[stargateheaven]

I'm looking forward to Metal Gear Survive.

It looks fun.

Kojima isn't needed to make a fun game IMO, just for an interesting story. And as a spinoff, who cares if the story sucks if the game is fun?

 

[adversarial]

If any other game had the legit boring-as-fuck-nothing-to-do-or-see open world that Zelda: BotW had, it would get torn to shreds, but because it's Zelda, it's 10/10.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

If any other game had the legit boring-as-fuck-nothing-to-do-or-see open world that Zelda: BotW had, it would get torn to shreds, but because it's Zelda, it's 10/10.

I have to agree with this. In general, Japanese open worlds have been really bad from my experience/observations.

For me personally, first person view changes everything when it comes to exploration. You take in all the details you would otherwise gloss over in a third-person game. Even Witcher 3 and the little I played of Horizon felt off to me.

 

[PrimeBeef]

If any other game had the legit boring-as-fuck-nothing-to-do-or-see open world that Zelda: BotW had, it would get torn to shreds, but because it's Zelda, it's 10/10.

I don't agree and here's why. We had another game that came out around the same time that had way better graphics and story and did not do as well. But why? Because it had a lot of hangups that traditional open world games are filled with. Zelda on the other hand broke free of most of them.

BotW was not praised for being a great Zelda game as much as it was praised for what it did differently than other open world games. How it melded systems of various games into a working tapestry of desire to explore. It di so many things right and different that all its predecessors. Most every review said they have never been compelled to just go explore a world as they were im BotW. That had nothing to do with it being Zelda, but rather it being a great game.

I believe if it were not a zelda game made by Nintendo It would have gotten the same praise because of everything it dies better and right.

 

[yuoke]

I have to agree with this. In general, Japanese open worlds have been really bad from my experience/observations.

For me personally, first person view changes everything when it comes to exploration. You take in all the details you would otherwise gloss over in a third-person game. Even Witcher 3 and the little I played of Horizon felt off to me.

I think this is also why 3d metroid has to be first person and why prime works so well.

 

[Markoman]

Loot boxes are great!

Spoiler

When mom and pop pay for them, those stupid morons.

 

[Natasha_c13]

I enjoyed Dark Souls 2 more than Bloodborne.

PvP was WAAAAAY better
Covenants were meaningful
Build diversity for days
Dark Souls 2 community is still very active

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I hate Nintendo.

 

[Ubername]

Mario 64 is an embarrassment on the tail of Mario World.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Mario 64 is an embarrassment on the tail of Mario World.

Mario World was an embarrasment on the tail of SMB3. Nintendo is godawful and shittastic, but for a brief moment between SMB1-3 they were good.

 

[iamvin22]

I hate Nintendo.

Try working for them. Worst out of the three.