Mister Wolf
Member
It sounds like its Taxman's modern day engine that impressed Sega and got him the job.
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Reggie: AM2R killed because it was a commercial product without a charge
- Thread starter benny_a
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It sounds like its Taxman's modern day engine that impressed Sega and got him the job.
There is no way that Samus Returns sells worse than Federation Force. Compare the reactions. People knows Samus Returns looks good.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
What's the most recent # on FF worldwide? Has it even broken 100k?
jakonovski
Member
I think the answer is clear as day: A2MR made Nintendo's lazy Metroid attempts look bad (like that terribad 3DS game).
UnemployedVillain
Member
He/she probably doesn't which makes it all the more embarrassing
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Except most people think it looks great and nearly all impressions are very positive?
jakonovski
Member
No I meant Federation Force. If anything, A2MR grows hype for a good Nintendo Metroid.
The upcoming Metroid: Samus Returns on the 3DS looks great.
Mister Wolf
Member
It would have been nothing for them to do a snes graphics Metroid see Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission.
I was one of these frustrated people. That petition for canceling FF was pure idiocy though and the reaction to the news that Retro was making another "fucking donkey kong" game was pathetic, hillarious and sad at the same time. A not so small part of this forum absolutely lost their shit.
I always understood the hate for Other M, even shared it and that FF was really not the way to go with the franchise after all these years without a proper game. Worst timing I've ever seen. I jumped out of my seat when i heard the Prime theme at E3.
But as long you can't show me another fanbase that wants a game that was years in the works canceled out of pure spite and takes huge dumps on another game series because they aren't their favourite game I'll consider the Metroid fanbase as the worst/toxic one, yes.
Basically yes. That makes them look really petty and insufferable. And it's sad because I'm part of it.
Not only this. Tropical Freeze suffered even more due to satiation even though it's one of the best 2D platformers ever made, yet some people in here try to make this about AM2R's and Samus Returns' quality. Even though they don't even know the quality of one of those games.
This fanbase...
I'm thinking that Next Level is developing MP4 and Federation Force is essentially nothing more then a game to get them used to making Metroid and first person games.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Except Federation Force plays nothing like a Metroid game. The only thing it shares with Prime is the general look and being in the same universe
???
I thought Nintendo confirmed Metroid Prime 4 was being worked on by a new dev team in Kyoto?
It actually has the same basic controls and combat as Prime.
Unforgivable is the right word.
Is it surprising that a 3DS game sold twice as much as a Wii U game?
From everything I've seen (and read), Nintendo said it was a new development team and Kensuke Tanabe is heading the project.
It's just a guess, but something I could easily see.
It's not that the 3DS game sold more then the Wii U game, it's that people weren't willing to double dip (no matter how good NSMB Wii U was) because they were satisified with NSMB 2.
Next Level Games is in Canada though.
WrenchNinja
Member
Devil May Cry
This whole toxic and worst fanbase commentary ever is some holier than thou nonsense. People are allowed to feel angry. And what they do with that anger isn't going to mean much, so why bother getting mad at other mad people.
Do you have a link where Nintendo says it's being developed in Kyoto. Everything I've seen says it's a new team and Tanabe is heading it.
He saying the product was good enough that it was a direct competition with an active Nintendo game they wanted to release.
Because it should be defended. Make your own game and don't steal others IP.
I can't find the Kyoto thing, so I was probably wrong. I guess it was a rumor that got conflated with the announcement?
Refreshment.01
Member
Good answer.
Another thing that is worth mentioning is that it wasn't Metroid fans exclusively reacting negatively to Retro opting for another DK game. This reaction was shared in general among the entire Nintendo fan base.
You can make a poll back in that time (or even now) presenting the choice between Retro making another 2D DK platformer or making Metroid Prime 4. Surely majority of votes will go towrads Prime 4. In the end the Wii U needed a Metroid Prime more than another 2D DK platformer. Even if Tropical Freeze ended up been one the greatest platformers of all time.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Still rumor at this point. The fact sheet does say lead by Tanabe with a new team. But that is really open to interpretation. It could basically mean just not Retro. Shikamaru Ninja said he/she is 99% positive it's being done by Next Level. If that's true, I seriously doubt the game will be done before late 2019, considering it took them 3+ years to deliver Federation Force. Unless they were working on them in conjunction? Next Level isn't that big though... 70-80 people, around the size of Retro.
In the end, yeah, it did.
At the time, a lot of people forget that the WiiU really wasn't that inundated with 2d platformers yet, and it the reaction to the DKCTF reveal was undeniably shitty.
C.Olimar788
Member
I guess "we C&D'd it because we're assholes who don't care about fanmade creations unless we can utilize them for our own profit" doesn't have the same ring to it.
Refreshment.01
Member
There's something you are not considering or remembering.
Nintendo was in a 2D Platformer kick/revival since the last Wii days. New Super Mario Bros Wii, Epic Yarn, DK Returns, Other M (at one point intended to be 2D). After that with their next main platform, Nintendo 2D platformers continued to land on the 3DS. Wii U debuted with yet another Mario 2D platformer and the first Mario 3D game on the system was a game that transitioned 2D gameplay to 3D, since 3D World feels more like 2D games gameplay than the more "free roaming" type in Sunshine or even Galaxy to some extent.
You know the line up assembly on Nintendo's part for the Wii U was abbysmal when the only lush, open and visual impressive games for years and years was Pikmin 3 and a remastered version of a 2002 game (WW).
So saying Metroid Prime 4 was needed more than DK Tropical Freeze is not hindsight speaking. im sure various people (myself included) made those observations at the time.
On topic: There's a lesson to be learned here for fan made games. Either aproach the company first or invest extra time coming with your own assets. Anything else is a folls errand.
All of which were released between 2009 and 2010. Between then and the point at which DKCTF was revealed, they had cut down on the 2d platformers and you only saw Kirby Wii, NSMB. Meanwhile, Nintendo had obviously been branching out into other genres at the time. As nicer as a new Metroid would have been in 2013, I stand firm that it isn't fair to hit them up for announcing another 2d platformer at that exact moment, especially with DKCR having been an obvious success.
The real fools errand here is putting that much effort into a remake. Clearly any publisher is going to want to always have the option of making a remake at some point. Even if it seems like a series is arbitrarily dead because of a few years of dead space and then a couple of spinoffs that nobody likes, there's always the possibility that series might get picked up and a remake of an older game could happen. Because, obviously, that exact scenario just happened.
Of course, the other part to watch out for is obviously not stepping on the toes of the official games even if your fan game isn't a remake. AM2R, Pokemon Uranium, and Pokemon Prism would have all probably faired better if they hadn't risen to prominence right before official games in those franchises were announced/released.
Geno Breaker
Banned
Aw man now how am I supposed to feel like the superior, intellectual, calm minded one here?!?!?!?
cartman414
Member
That's a bit much. If, for instance, someone wants to do a Mario 2 successor, which Nintendo doesn't seem inclined towards, and releases it for free, I say let 'em. It's not taking away mindshare from any product unless Nintendo decides to do their own, in which case I say they're free to.
Geno Breaker
Banned
Wii U owners were basically begging for something that wasn't just a 2D platformer, Prime 4 wouldn't have bombed lol
TwistedFreeze
Member
Considering that most Metroid games only sell around 1.5 million units, even on more popular systems, and even a lot of Nintendo's games on the Wii U sold less than previous iterations, it's pretty likely that Prime 4 would've sold poorly on the Wii U
SporeCrawler
Member
Fire emblem fans at least bought games and they didnt bitch about Intelligent System making other games like Paper Mario, Wario Ware or Rhythm Tengoku.
A singular incident is not the same as constant toxic since 2002
SporeCrawler
Member
Fully agreed
It doesnt exist since other m and federation force. It existed basically since nintendo rebooted the franchise with fusion and prime.
Prome got shit for being first person. Fusion because it was linear and the suit design was odd. Echoes even got worse reaction for being link to the past like and being too hard. Corruption then was too halo like.
To be honest other m wasnt a bad game either (havent played federation force yet). I finished it in one session and was introgued and entertained the whole time. Sure the story was cheesy as shit but the game gets so much hate you would wxpect it to be big rigs or something.
A perfect example right here. Gets two games in 7 years (of which one is definately above average) but feels entitled to games that have the quality of zelda or something despite piss poor sales. The only reason other m got a bad reputation is because fans are jaded and cant accept that there may be entries with flaws (once again aside of the cheesy story and rather short playtime - which isnt necessarily a minus - i struggle to see why the game is treated like big rigs or imagine babyz)
And to be honest donkey kong country has a way better reputation (DKC2 is considered the best SNES game by many and sales of DKC were mich higher than metroid) so blasting retro for TF is completely ridiculous.
Sure. Also even on WiiU Tropical freeze outsold every metroid game except the original and prime and is up there with corruption
Geno Breaker
Banned
Nope. DKCTF only sold around 1.12 million units. Metroid Prime, Prime 3, Metroid NES, and Super Metroid have all sold considerably better than DKCTF.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700
I doubt it. No other console had a similar library situation as to the Wii U. (It was basically just 2D platformer games on an HD system) This was at a time where Metroid was prime
:^)
I don't think Federation Force broke 30k
and that "might" be generous
I doubt they started on Wii U
TheDinoman
Member
Heh, it's funny how AM2R got this wrong:
Is that really "getting it wrong"? That's more like having a fun little twist at the beginning.
Heh, it's funny how AM2R got this wrong:
Wait, what's going on in the Samus Returns version? It seems like the original version at first, but then the ball just flies up into the air and disappears while Arachnus pops up out of the ground just like the AM2R version.
Refreshment.01
Member
The above is not a proper counter argument. Selecting a fragment of the post makes it lose context. Answering that fragment doesn't make your argument more valid. There's also factual inconsistencies with what you are saying:
- 1.) Answering to the highlighted. Nintendo has offered 2d platformers almost on yearly basis. In Wii's case from 2008 with Wario Land Shake it upwards to Return to Dream Land in 2011. And the Wii U was fully backwards compatible.
- 2.) Nintendo continued offering platformers with the 3DS and much of the handheld audience overlapped with the Wii U one. Take the case of how a game such as NSMB2 on 3DS affected the perception of NSMBU which was a better game yet critical reception towards it was more cold.
- 3.) Wii U had NSMBU at launch. Rayman Legends was announced in E3 2012 as an exclusive set for march 2013 release originally. And the New Super Luigi U was a 2013 release. Nintendo also had new entries for Kirby and Yoshi already in the works for Wii U that ended up releasing in early 2015. (Yoshi hld back for america)
Another thing (altough not Retro related per se) that was pointed out early in Wii U's life is how Nintendo needs an ambituos release at launch to move systems. A Mario 64 or even a Zelda port had proven succesful for them. Not such thing happened with the Wii U.
Going to square one before this gets more derailed i will say one final time that although i don't agree with most of the crap Tropical Freeze got from a portion of the user base, still, there were legitimate cause of concern about investing Retro's time in another 2D DK platformer given the situation of Nintendo line up of games. The results speak for themsleves.
Or maybe the lack of a Prime like game would have boosted it sales. Wii U user base while small was pretty dedicated, just look at the performance of Mario Kart 8 or Splatoon.
It's not much of a twist and the original twist is much better. They got rid of his unique intro gimmick and made him a Torizo.
The smoke and gif quality obscure it but he's jumping into the air and slamming down, smashing the statue, not popping out of the ground.
TwistedFreeze
Member
I guess if you want to ignore Super Mario 3D World, Bayonetta 2, Pikmin 3, Super Smash Bros 4, Zelda; BOTW, Mario Kart 8, etc., then, sure, there were only 2D platformers on the Wii U. Thing is, with a lot of those games, save for for Mario Kart 8, most of them didn't exactly have stellar sales compared to previous entries, albeit Zelda: BOTW is selling best on the Switch anyways. Pretty safe to say that a Metroid game would've likely struggled on the Wii U, especially considering that Metroid has never been huge to begin with
Not impossible but that's assuming that a Metroid Prime 4 would appeal to more than just the hardcore Metroid fans as only the first Metroid Prime managed to do that and even that one couldn't quite sell beyond 3 million. The likes of Mario Kart and Splatoon have far more mainstream appeal than Metroid so I wouldn't really compare them
eot
Banned
It's not like Nintendo stopped it, the game is out there
Refreshment.01
Member
It's a relative save bet to claim that, given the Wii U situation, a Metroid Prime 4 would have sold better numbers or pushed the system better than a 2D DK platformer. Now if Retro's DK game was a fully expansive 3D game like Mario 64 or Galaxy then it would be my betting horse against the hyphotetical Prime 4. Even though that 3D DK wouldn't be doing a better job diversifying the Wii Us line up.
The hyphotetical Prime 4 would have made a better job implementing and taking advantage of the system capabilties in terms of visuals and input than Tropical Freeze ever did. The jump from a Wii Prime to a Wii U one would have been more apparent than going from DK Returns to Tropical Freeze.
i was talking from the perspective that the C&D against the project made the creator and the fans mad in some way.
SporeCrawler
Member
thats BS. TF sold pretty well for a WiiU game with over a million copies sold. i highly doubt a metroid game on wiiu would have reached over a million, in particular due to low japanese sales.
also DK 64 sold worse then DKC on SNES or DKCR
Ban Puncher
Member
What else does your uncle know?
D.Lo
Member
That wasn't just what he said.
Metroid Prime 4 could have turned around perception of the system to a certain extent. I'm a test case - I would have run out and bought a Wii U if MP4 was announced. Instead I got one as a birthday gift years later because I was interested in Splatoon.
Almost no-one would have bought a Wii U for DKCTF. It's the type of game you pick up on a system if you have the system already, but not much of a system seller. MP4 would have had much more of a chance at selling systems IMO.
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