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[jimi_dini]

from the link:
"Although changes of quantum state occur on the submicroscopic level, in popular discourse, the term "quantum leap" refers to a large increase."

Quote Fail

of course people think it means a big jump, that's why it was used here. Scientifically speaking it's not.

 

[KageMaru]

In before, "Wii U is next gen."

But....The Wii-U is a next gen system.

Shouldn't you be concerned about barebones console ports or how much those pc's will cost?

There's no way next gen consoles will match even today's high end gaming PCs, so he/she does have a point. No need to drag this down into a PC vs console thread when both camps benefit from new, more powerful, systems. =)

Next year is going to be one hell of a party here at Gaf.
Especially E3/ PS4-720 announcements.

Yup, can't wait to grab the pop corn while I watch people eating up the hyperbole or having meltdowns. It's going to be glorious. =p

 

[scitek]

Oh boy.

 

[Raistlin]

4D

 

[Eideka]

It's not only a question of "powerful" but also a question of architecture. If next-gen consoles are powerful but not more than a mid-range PC, it could still be hard to have quality port with impressive results on PC if the console architecture is vastly different.

Word on the street is that the next-gen console's architecture will be pretty similar to that of a PC.

I'm not worried at all.

 

[nasos_333]

There's no way next gen consoles will match even today's high end gaming PCs, so he/she does have a point. No need to drag this down into a PC vs console thread when both camps benefit from new, more powerful, systems. =)
p

It will take some proof for that, considering xbox 360 CPU/GPU and design was way above the top CPUs/GPU and design on PC in mid 2004

I wont even go to the fact that Witcher 2 runs fine on 360 and does not work on a 2005 PC with a 7800GTX that had a 600$ cost at the time for the GPU alone (while 360 was 300$ whole)

 

[mrklaw]

Does nobody else look at the best PCs are capable of at the moment, how much the best PCs cost, and the general lack of creativity, and just think -- even if the tech is powerful, it'll be hard to be wowed? The Crysis and Unreal 4 demos are cool, but meh to me, all the same.

no, because I'm excited by what the superset of console developers can do with the tech.

I'm also happy that at least one dev has come out with optimistic words, rather than the doom and gloom mongering in recent months.

 

[Sid]

There's no way next gen consoles will match even today's high end gaming PCs, so he/she does have a point. No need to drag this down into a PC vs console thread when both camps benefit from new, more powerful, systems. =)

I don't mean to do that what i meant was they will look better obviously but how much would such pc's cost?i guess we'll see coz i don't think mine(i7 950+580) would have games which are running much better than the ps4(if it has a 7850 as rumored) coz even with similar architecture devs will focus on coding close to the metal only for consoles

 

[BGBW]

Don't know why people are putting a negative spin on this. Good news imo.

Because the WiiU started life as a quantum leap and now people are debating whether it out performs the PS3.

 

[nasos_333]

Because the WiiU started life as a quantum leap and now people are debating whether it out performs the PS3.

WiiU is a quantum leap comparing to Wii (like 360/PS3 anyway)

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I have faith in Remedy, all aboard!

 

[zoukka]

Control is anither unique gimmick but it's not an quantum jump -_-

A bit off-topic, but this time around when we live in a world of touchscreens, the Wiipad is not a gimmick. It will be the superior way to control things over any other controller I'm sure.

 

[StuBurns]

Because the WiiU started life as a quantum leap and now people are debating whether it out performs the PS3.

No it didn't. The first thing we saw was a bunch of 720p demos with no AA, from day one it looked inline with the current gen.

 

[Corto]

of course people think it means a big jump, that's why it was used here. Scientifically speaking it's not.

Scientifically speaking is an almost instantaneous change of state of an electron. Though it seems you are talking of microscopical quantities the truth is it ultimately means that the electron completely changed its properties. I f you carry that to a popular discourse it means that, next gen consoles in this case, will be in noticeably different state than current systems. Thus the use of quantum leap, that is absolutely idiomatic correct.

 

[radioheadrule83]

no, because I'm excited by what the superset of console developers can do with the tech.

I'm also happy that at least one dev has come out with optimistic words, rather than the doom and gloom mongering in recent months.

I'm always excited by what the superset of console developers create, on any hardware.

I'm hearing this and suspecting I won't be buying in to Xbox 720 or PS4 until 2014. I'm thinking, either:

• He's exaggerating, he's making a next gen game and he wants to up-sell next gen
• or he's right and that this will mean prohibitively expensive consoles, with potentially prohibitively expensive development costs for perceptively little gain.

Higher development costs, if there are any, will make everyone more risk averse. And high price of entry will mean slow adoption and further setbacks to an industry that can't take it. I expect more companies to go bust like 3D Realms, Bizzare Games, Clover Studios, Codemasters Guildford, EA Chicago/Bright Light/Japan, Factor 5, Grin, Hudson, Ensemble Studios, Ignition, Midway, Pandemic, Rockstar Vienna, SOE Denver and Seattle, Sony Liverpool, Team Bondi, Vicarious Visions California, Visceral Australia etc. and many more that I don't have the time to name.

 

[KageMaru]

It will take some proof for that, considering xbox 360 CPU/GPU and design was way above the top CPUs/GPU and design on PC in mid 2004

I wont even go to the fact that Witcher 2 runs fine on 360 and does not work on a 2005 PC with a 7800GTX that had a 600$ cost at the time for the GPU alone (while 360 was 300$ whole)

Things have progressed quite a bit since 2004/2005. There's no way a high end GPU is going to fit inside a console-sized box without melting it to the ground. Power consumption and price are also two other factors that need to be considered and limit what can be placed in a console. It'll be a large leap by console standards, but it won't beat out a high end gaming PC.

Also I'm not saying we won't see games next gen that look better than current high end PC games. Games will continue to look better, just like current high end console games look better than HL2, Doom 3, FEAR, and any other old high end PC game. However that has as much to do with efficiencies gained over the years of developing on these systems and not a reflection to how much brute performance they have.

I'm always excited by what the superset of console developers create, on any hardware.

I'm hearing this and suspecting I won't be buying in to Xbox 720 or PS4 until 2014. I'm thinking, either:

• He's exaggerating, he's making a next gen game and he wants to up-sell next gen
• or he's right and that this will mean prohibitively expensive consoles, with potentially prohibitively expensive development costs for perceptively little gain.

Higher development costs, if there are any, will make everyone more risk averse. And high price of entry will mean slow adoption and further setbacks to an industry that can't take it. I expect more companies to go bust like 3D Realms, Bizzare Games, Clover Studios, Codemasters Guildford, EA Chicago/Bright Light/Japan, Factor 5, Grin, Hudson, Ensemble Studios, Ignition, Midway, Pandemic, Rockstar Vienna, SOE Denver and Seattle, Sony Liverpool, Team Bondi, Vicarious Visions California, Visceral Australia etc. and many more that I don't have the time to name.

There are more than just those two options. It's true that the industry is becoming more cost adverse, but companies will have to change with the times and adjust or they would close anyways.

Besides you're making a huge assumption that there will be a large jump in cost for little gain. IMO the jump in cost won't be nearly as bad as this gen and the gain will be more than noticeable.

Or do you think the Wii-U is the right direction to go and all the systems should be close to that level of performance to better help the industry?

 

[dude819]

Good luck withe budgets to support a "quantum leap" If people thought this gen was bad for studios, just wait.

I always see this type of thought posted but it simply does not make any sense. Everything gets cheaper and easier to make. If the games are, as is alleged, 3 to 6 times "better," the price will not be 3 to 6 times more to make them. If anything, it just means that the bottom barrel stuff will be even better and the stuff at the top, like COD, Halo, etc., will be absolutely crazy.

NOTE: By "top" i mean stuff with huge budgets.

 

[BGBW]

No it didn't. The first thing we saw was a bunch of 720p demos with no AA, from day one it looked inline with the current gen.

Perhaps I exaggerated but the early rumours painted the WiiU in a far more positive light than the latest ones. Basically it's better to take this news with a pinch of salt, especially when someone uses terms like "quantum leap".

I always see this type of thought posted but it simply does not make any sense. Everything gets cheaper and easier to make. If the games are, as is alleged, 3 to 6 times "better," the price will not be 3 to 6 times more to make them. If anything, it just means that the bottom barrel stuff will be even better and the stuff at the top, like COD, Halo, etc., will be absolutely crazy.

Games in the 80s took one man and his dog to make.
Today they require the population of a small island.
They are not getting cheaper.

 

[revolverjgw]

Next year is going to be one hell of a party here at Gaf.
Especially E3/ PS4-720 announcements.

So hyped. I wasn't around here for the last round of reveals. This is going to be so much fun.

 

[derFeef]

PR bullshit

Can you explain this more detailed please, I am very curious.
Also Quantum leap in this context means something different, silly page 1 jokers!

 

[RoboPlato]

Now THIS is the kind of quote I like to hear about next-gen as opposed to "not enough RAM".

 

[Sid]

Perhaps I exaggerated but the early rumours painted the WiiU in a far more positive light than the latest ones. Basically it's better to take this news with a pinch of salt, especially when someone uses terms like "quantum leap".

Yup you did,Remedy isn't a first party studio,if they are saying next gen consoles(ps4/nextbox) are a quantum leap then i'l believe it in this case

 

[Izick]

Sounds promising. I like that they're a bit broad about it, because that likely means it isn't just PR bullshit.

 

[Pixel_boy]

This gen was a odd one when we had two twins hope next gen not as boring as this gen, where it come down best ports.

Why can't the ps1 under power not win over N64 it's all about games in the next gen?

 

[Erethian]

I always see this type of thought posted but it simply does not make any sense. Everything gets cheaper and easier to make. If the games are, as is alleged, 3 to 6 times "better," the price will not be 3 to 6 times more to make them. If anything, it just means that the bottom barrel stuff will be even better and the stuff at the top, like COD, Halo, etc., will be absolutely crazy.

NOTE: By "top" i mean stuff with huge budgets.

Labour costs are still going up due to increasing team size, though it's not directly related to the introduction of a new console generation. As something like Assassin's Creed 3 shows.

Selling a new round of expensive consoles in the current climate (slow global economic growth, more competition) is going to be more of an issue. That, and that the conventional console game business model is completely and utterly broken save for the big publishers and key franchises.

Digital download titles and the emerging business models (F2P and the like) should do good, though.

 

[specialguy]

gigitty hype hype hype hype hype

 

[Sid]

Good luck withe budgets to support a "quantum leap" If people thought this gen was bad for studios, just wait.

Maybe pubs with loer funds or not wanting to invest more in certain titles will develop cross-gen titles with ps/360 as lead and then up-port with additional features to ps4/nextbox using their current engines?

 

[BGBW]

Yup you did,Remedy isn't a first party studio,if they are saying next gen consoles(ps4/nextbox) are a quantum leap then i'l believe it in this case

It was third parties making the claims with the Wii U as well.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Scientifically speaking is an almost instantaneous change of state of an electron. Though it seems you are talking of microscopical quantities the truth is it ultimately means that the electron completely changed its properties. I f you carry that to a popular discourse it means that, next gen consoles in this case, will be in noticeably different state than current systems. Thus the use of quantum leap, that is absolutely idiomatic correct.

hopefully your explanation puts this to rest.
Anybody else who's still not sure, here's an example: Gaf's transition between reading the OP and getting the point was the exact opposite of a "quantum leap".

GAF: the only place where

Spoiler

you need a degree in physics to understand a PR quote.

 

[Dance Inferno]

Doesn't matter. You will be getting ports anyway.

Ha, good one. I don't have a PC either way, I was just making an observation.

 

[TheD]

It will take some proof for that, considering xbox 360 CPU/GPU and design was way above the top CPUs/GPU and design on PC in mid 2004

I wont even go to the fact that Witcher 2 runs fine on 360 and does not work on a 2005 PC with a 7800GTX that had a 600$ cost at the time for the GPU alone (while 360 was 300$ whole)

The 360 did not come out in 2004!

The Witcher 2 on 360 has had a lot of graphical things changed or cut out from the PC version, so it can not be compared.

A bit off-topic, but this time around when we live in a world of touchscreens, the Wiipad is not a gimmick. It will be the superior way to control things over any other controller I'm sure.

SMH
Touch screens suck for gaming compared to physical controls.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

E3 will be Epic.

 

[KageMaru]

Games in the 80s took one man and his dog to make.
Today they require the population of a small island.
They are not getting cheaper.

I could be wrong, but how I understand it, most publishers throw an army at a game because they usually think it's the easiest way to solve a problem. Many of these games (UC, CoD, AC, Halo, etc.) also run on a pretty strict 2-3 year dev schedule. However, teams like Remedy and CD Projekt prove you don't need massive, massive teams in order to pump out a high quality game.

IMO management is the biggest issue in regards to cost and development, not how powerful the console is.

Yup you did,Remedy isn't a first party studio,if they are saying next gen consoles(ps4/nextbox) are a quantum leap then i'l believe it in this case

Yup, the fact that they are independent adds merit to their comments IMO.

This gen was a odd one when we had two twins hope next gen not as boring as this gen, where it come down best ports.

Why can't the ps1 under power not win over N64 it's all about games in the next gen?

Can you explain your point a bit better? I think I understand what you mean but I'm not sure.

The 360 did not come out in 2004!

The Witcher 2 on 360 has had a lot of graphical things changed or cut out from the PC version, so it can not be compared.

The fact that it runs as well as it does while also looking great for a console title is a great example to how console gamers can have the same experiences as those with more powerful PCs. It was a fair point IMO.

 

[Ushojax]

Whether the development budgets make the same leap remains to be seen.

 

[nasos_333]

Things have progressed quite a bit since 2004/2005. There's no way a high end GPU is going to fit inside a console-sized box without melting it to the ground. Power consumption and price are also two other factors that need to be considered and limit what can be placed in a console. It'll be a large leap by console standards, but it won't beat out a high end gaming PC.

Also I'm not saying we won't see games next gen that look better than current high end PC games. Games will continue to look better, just like current high end console games look better than HL2, Doom 3, FEAR, and any other old high end PC game. However that has as much to do with efficiencies gained over the years of developing on these systems and not a reflection to how much brute performance they have.

There are more than just those two options. It's true that the industry is becoming more cost adverse, but companies will have to change with the times and adjust or they would close anyways.

Besides you're making a huge assumption that there will be a large jump in cost for little gain. IMO the jump in cost won't be nearly as bad as this gen and the gain will be more than noticeable.

Or do you think the Wii-U is the right direction to go and all the systems should be close to that level of performance to better help the industry?

Sure hardware is more demanding in power and cooling, but if you can power it and cool it on PC, you can do it on consoles

Consoles are not tablets to go for portability, so they can have any power and cooling system really at launch and go for revisions later, exactly what happened with PS3/360

I agree that we would probably not see retail parts like 690GTX as they are, or with such raw power and clocks, probably will be something close to 680GTX in raw power with optimizations and performace boosting tricks

Also if i remember right, the ATI equivalent parts are far less demaning in power consumption

 

[Eliciel]

all of this just brought this to my mind...I'll just wait and see for myself.

 

[StuBurns]

E3 will be CryTek.

 

[nasos_333]

The 360 did not come out in 2004!

The Witcher 2 on 360 has had a lot of graphical things changed or cut out from the PC version, so it can not be compared.

SMH
Touch screens suck for gaming compared to physical controls.

Surly, as xbox 720 is not coming out in mid 2012 either

 

[radioheadrule83]

Besides you're making a huge assumption that there will be a large jump in cost for little gain. IMO the jump in cost won't be nearly as bad as this gen and the gain will be more than noticeable.

Or do you think the Wii-U is the right direction to go and all the systems should be close to that level of performance to better help the industry?

I'm not going to say they should all be Wii-U levels of power - obviously, I'd like any console released in a years time to be more powerful.

But I do think that from all manufacturers, the industry needs the highest power and most novel application it can muster and put into a £200-350 ($300-450) box. If we have an arms race that results in two high end expensive boxes, we're in for another tough generational transition... we ALL know publishers are capable of making horrible bets on the outcome.

It's not enough for Nintendo alone to try and make and market the affordable, mass market box, because most third parties don't make their money on Nintendo consoles. One of the others has to find a way to address realities.

I think we can make a visually noticeable improvement and make strides in game engines, animation, physics etc. - but right now, I don't see a reason to build expensive and insane boxes. Building high end PCs is expensive right now and they are power hungry. Making a console that will shrink that technology and compete with PCs for the next 5/6 years is going to be a risky and expensive strategy.

 

[specialguy]

The 360 did not come out in 2004!

The Witcher 2 on 360 has had a lot of graphical things changed or cut out from the PC version, so it can not be compared.
.

His point stands. Your mom certainly could not tell the difference, for example.

Programming to a closed box has incredibly enormous advantages. That is why (no realistic person) looks at PS360 games in 2012 and says "that looks like shit compared to other graphics available in the world!". They may not match PC versions, but they are in the ballpark for sure.

 

[Monty Mole]

quantum means really really really small right?

"Quantum Leap" = A sudden large increase or advance

 

[monlo]

I mean, if the consoles have a AMD 7970 built in, with custom driver support, they will be able to play all PC games currently out at ultra settings (see Witcher 2 quality). And any new games coming out will be tailored to take advantage of this architecture.

That is a quantum leap over current consoles. But it's equivalent to current PCs out within the last year or so...

 

[Sid]

It was third parties making the claims with the Wii U as well.

Third parties claiming wiiu's performance is a quantum leap over ps360,proof?

 

[Ptaaty]

Last gen consoles were roughly equivalent to PCs, mostly worse in raw specs....and that was what a hundred years ago?

 

[SmokyDave]

Death Rally 4K pls Remedy.

Thanks.

 

[BGBW]

Third parties claiming wiiu's performance is a quantum leap over ps360,proof?

I pointed out I was exaggerating but they were far more positive about the WiiU specs in the early days than they are now. You need to learn to not take things so literally.

 

[Sid]

Last gen consoles were roughly equivalent to PCs, mostly worse in raw specs....and that was what a hundred years ago?

Next gen consoles(ps4/nextbox) are a quantum leap compared to ps360 according to remedy,who is comparing a 2014 pc with them?though most games are developed with current gen consoles(ps360) in mind

I mean, if the consoles have a AMD 7970 built in, with custom driver support, they will be able to play all PC games currently out at ultra settings (see Witcher 2 quality). And any new games coming out will be tailored to take advantage of this architecture.

That is a quantum leap over current consoles. But it's equivalent to current PCs out within the last year or so...

Having played it(w2),I they'll look better than witcher 2 on ultra not in 1080p60fps though just look at 1313 or warch_dogs

 

[ThatStupidLion]

Ouya dead on arrival?

 

[specialguy]

It degenerates into another Wii U thread...

Come on guys, we are past the point of thinking Wii U belongs in next gen.

 

[derFeef]

The real news here that Alan Wake 2 is coming.
Well it's not really news, but exciting anyway.

Game will look great, as AW1 already looks fantastic on PC.