• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

RTTP: The hyperbolic bane of sci-fi filmGAF (aka Prometheus)

Status
Not open for further replies.

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Prometheusposterfixed.jpg


Hey hey hey, if it ain't the 2012 movie that -- next to The Dark Knight Rises -- most of GAF just loves to shit on as the worst thing since rotten bread for some benign reason, which doesn't make much sense considering that stuff like Suicide Squad exists in comparison.

Anyway, the marketing for Alien: Covenant is in full-swing at this point and in the acknowledgement of that, I figured I should pop it back into the Blu-ray player. Now, I hadn't seen the film in years -- saw it in the theater during senior high school and then watched it again on said Blu-ray again a little later on. Being already a big fan of the first Alien back then and that I was thirsty for Ridley Scott to make a sci-fi movie again, I was actually pretty enthusiastic after seeing it. I think I mentally gave it a solid B+/A- by late teen standards. Then times changed and my tastes and judgement on films matured a little more after.

But even then, despite being aware of that change, I never really understood why the hell this movie gets an insane amount of flak around these parts. Well, I actually kinda do now thanks to how Star Wars gets talked about here lately. Either way, now that the rose-tinted goggles are gone, let's get into how I found it this time.

First off, I'm not gona sugarcoat this: the characters are as dumb as bricks, especially as they are scientists. I don't think I even need to reiterate the silly decisions they make in this movie considering how they've been a butt of the joke on the internet for sometime now (why are they running in a straight line? why the fuck would you touch that thing? etc.). That said, they're not unlikable -- not the most compelling set of characters out there, yes, but for all their stupidity, I never found them that insufferable or "broken." They are pretty par for the course in terms of the genre; the movie just did a terrible job at masking how run-of-the-mill they were or better yet, adding more to that.

In terms of everything else in the writing department, I thought the movie was on point. Sure, could've gone the extra mile, but I think it did well enough of a job in exploring its themes -- by mainstream sci-fi standards at least -- of how we are so anxious to know more about how we were plopped onto this rock and why such a question is just a.) kinda irrelevant at this point of civilization and b.) it's going to bite us in the ass if we try going beyond our reach to know that. It's a straightforward approach, but not too much that it lacks depth. Admittedly, however, I would have rather had a movie that doubled down on these themes, and that could have gave us a little more "cosmic/psychological horror" as a result rather than run of the mill alien-slasher. You just get super limited by that set-up when tackling those themes. It also highlights how more focused the original Alien was and how it didn't need such frivolities to get its own messages across.

Screenplay stuff aside, this movie is fucking gorgeous guys.Listen to that music. Look at those sets. Also, I can't find it on YouTube, but the opening credits has some damn beautiful cinematography work that's also persistent throughout the rest of the movie. The only strike I have against it is that the editing fumbles at certain points, but everything else audiovisual-wise is ace. You can't deny that Scott really has one hell of an eye for detail when it comes to this and that attention alone really elevates it above much of the other pop-corn flicks of that year in this regard.

So, when you take all that into account, what do you get?

You get a pretty solid sci-fi movie. That's about it. Nothing revolutionary and it's got its fair share of flaws, but not the piece of horrible cowdung many make it out to be on here. It's a B at best, and a C+ at worst. I would love to re-hear people's cases as to why they think it's that bad though.

Maybe I should re-watch Skyfall too eh?
 
Or maybe you could value your time higher than a teenager does and consider that a movie that is really just a good-looking B-movie literally about watching paint dry, is really not worth anyone's time that doesn't need to watch movies for a living.

Any normal viewer that came out of that movie basically went: "wtf did I just watch?" and that's all anyone needs to know in terms of what it is. It's shit.
But it's very polished shiny turd, sure.

edit: I apologize for not being very helpful on getting a discussion, but I grow weary of 'Movie X was not that bad' when literally everybody already agreed it was. And considering the title of the thread is literally aimed at me, I felt it was required.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Or maybe you could value your time higher than a teenager does and consider that a movie that is really just a good-looking B-movie literally about watching paint dry, is really not worth anyone's time that doesn't need to watch movies for a living.

Any normal viewer that came out of that movie basically went: "wtf did I just watch?" and that's all anyone needs to know in terms of what it is. It's shit.
But it's very polished shiny turd, sure.

You're not really selling me any points as to why you've come to that conclusion that it is a turd.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Saw it in the theatre, with my dad and brother, we all liked Prometheus.

Logged onto the internet and found out some people hated it.

Shrugged.
 
Or maybe you could value your time higher than a teenager does and consider that a movie that is really just a good-looking B-movie literally about watching paint dry, is really not worth anyone's time that doesn't need to watch movies for a living.

Any normal viewer that came out of that movie basically went: "wtf did I just watch?" and that's all anyone needs to know in terms of what it is. It's shit.
But it's very polished shiny turd, sure.
Or maybe not everyone is an obnoxious wad thats able to enjoy things despite them being flawed because they don't value being an elitist above all else.
 

Gearless

Neo Member
It's pretty simple for me, I thought Prometheus would be a science epic film and it wasn't, case closed.

It's a decent movie but a bit bland too.
 

StayDead

Member
Saw it in the theatre, with my dad and brother, we all liked Prometheus.

Logged onto the internet and found out some people hated it.

Shrugged.

Exactly the same as me.

Admittedly I got confused at the stupidity on display by the running in a straight line and how it all led up to the finale, but I enjoyed it still.
 
Like Interstellar I disliked when I saw it but grew to like it what it attempted to do. Also both Blu Rays are packed with so many damn good extras.

Mmmmm...Behind the scenes heaven
 

ArcLyte

Member
It'll always be one of my favorites. And on the topic of the stupid scientists... Being a scientist doesn't make you a tactical genius in all other facets of life. The over-inquisitiveness of Fifield and Millburn with little regard to their own safety was an exaggeration of the academic stereotype.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
edit: I apologize for not being very helpful on getting a discussion, but I grow weary of 'Movie X was not that bad' when literally everybody already agreed it was. And considering the title of the thread is literally aimed at me, I felt it was required.
See, this just isn't the case at all.

As for my thread title -- and I guess the tone of OP as well -- I was just poking fun at how overblown GAF movie opinions tend to be due to some odd reasons particularly in regards to this film. Something that's embodied once again through the bolded above.

you really showed us, huh?
1jAw13.gif
 
edit: I apologize for not being very helpful on getting a discussion, but I grow weary of 'Movie X was not that bad' when literally everybody already agreed it was. And considering the title of the thread is literally aimed at me, I felt it was required.
Who is "literally everybody"? Movie has just about 70% average score on RT with 278 reviews if you wanted to get a consensus. Same as user ratings if you count them (72%). 6.5/10 from both reviewers and users on Metacritic. 4/5 on Amazon with 4,000+ ratings. And so on

I don't usually care for bringing up aggregates and scores, but that's the only real tangible data if you're going to talk about general consensus
 

jviggy43

Member
Ill never forget the main character having an alien ripped put of her, and then just continuing on like nothing happened and no mention of it to anyone as it just grows in that room. Quality lindelof stuff right there.
 

Robot Pants

Member
I'm sorry but I don't know what to tell you besides you have bad taste in movies if you enjoyed this and thought the writing was "on point"

The character motivations in this gigantic piece of shit of a movie are so laughable. I can't understand how anyone can defend it. Anyone. I might even have to add you to my ignore list for making this thread trying to defend it.

It's such an awful movie through and through and it's been discussed as to why through and through (since you know, GAF loves to shit on it.)

It's pretty to look at but when someone asks me the worst movie I've ever seen, without hesitation I can say "Prometheus"
 
II can't understand how anyone can defend it. Anyone. I might even have to add you to my ignore list for making this thread trying to defend it.

...It's pretty to look at but when someone asks me the worst movie I've ever seen, without hesitation I can say "Prometheus"
That seems like an extreme reaction
 
My main issue with prometheus, and subsequently with movies trying to capture the 'alien' sci fi it's that I just can't believe such dumb people exist. Listen, horror movies tend to have dumb fucking characters. But at least in general I can just make an assumption that they're a dumb teen or just not particularly capable of dealing with stressful situations effectively.

But when scientists are sent to space you'd think they'd be the cream of the fucking crop. Not the "let me pet this weird new alien" type.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I'm sorry but I don't know what to tell you besides you have bad taste in movies if you enjoyed this and thought the writing was "on point"

The character motivations in this gigantic piece of shit of a movie are so laughable. I can't understand how anyone can defend it. Anyone. I might even have to add you to my ignore list for making this thread trying to defend it.

It's such an awful movie through and through and it's been discussed as to why through and through (since you know, GAF loves to shit on it.)

It's pretty to look at but when someone asks me the worst movie I've ever seen, without hesitation I can say "Prometheus"
All this tells me is that you don't watch a lot of movies.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
I'm sorry but I don't know what to tell you besides you have bad taste in movies if you enjoyed this and thought the writing was "on point"

The character motivations in this gigantic piece of shit of a movie are so laughable. I can't understand how anyone can defend it. Anyone. I might even have to add you to my ignore list for making this thread trying to defend it.

But how does that constitute as the end-all-be-all to a quality film considering that there are multiple variables to consider for the medium? And it's not like character motivations within the movie are terribly constructed. They are bland and unoriginal, sure, but nothing farcical.

Obviously a lot of people enjoy this (terrible) movie, but suggesting the extreme hatred being directed at it a GAF meme or something is preposterous.
Never said it didn't exist outside of GAF. But you can't deny that the movie has been the go-to target in plenty of threads.
 
I liked the movie despite its problems.

Its pretty flawed but its not an absolute unforgivable trainwreck people make it out to be. Its not like say Suicide Squad and Zoolander 2 of last year.
 
My main issue with prometheus, and subsequently with movies trying to capture the 'alien' sci fi it's that I just can't believe such dumb people exist. Listen, horror movies tend to have dumb fucking characters. But at least in general I can just make an assumption that they're a dumb teen or just not particularly capable of dealing with stressful situations effectively.

But when scientists are sent to space you'd think they'd be the cream of the fucking crop. Not the "let me pet this weird new alien" type.
That was pretty ridiculous

But besides that, scientists are just people. And people do stupid, irrational, illogical things, even smart intelligent people. Cream of the crop doesn't always matter when emotions get involved. There's a difference between say staying calm and clinical during the Apollo 13 accident and scientists acting calm and rational when killer aliens and other unfathomable things start happening
 
I was hugely confused by a lot of it. Was the planet the engineers landed on at the start an early Earth? There were already plants there, so did the black goo seed human life or some other form of precursor to human life? What does this mean for the "DNA match" in the engineer head examination?

Why was the crew so ill-prepared by Weyland? I would have wanted the very best people on this mission, both technically and psychologically.

There seemed to be a lot of lazy writing in this, I thought. For example, the aforementioned DNA match.
 

le.phat

Member
I'll only speak for myself, but the reason I fucking loathed the film was because it was so disappointing after a very, very hype marketing campaign. The original Alien film is my favourite sci-fi movie still, and I couldn't wait to dive into the extended
Universe by proxy of Prometheus. So yes, my expectations were almost impossible to meet.

But then I think of how Scott tried to invoke the original film with recurring imagery and a similar ost, but totally missed the thing that made it great; the subtlety of suspense, Humanly written characters, and a scenario that is excellently paced thanks to it's limited scope.

With this in mind, and Scott kicking subtlety to the curb, replacing mystery with vagueness, you end up with a film that becomes a vessel for everything sucky about today's Hollywood blockbusters. It's big, brash and obnoxious in it's premise. Over the top action sequences, shitty writing, and a constant effort to try and invoke nostalgia in the most blatant way. The setup for a next installment, the after credit teaser. I guess it just pisses me off to see one of my favourite franchises gettig thrown into the Hollywood factory for another round, with the added bonus destroying the sense of mystery around the alien by making everything explicit in the most convoluted way possible.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
If it didn't try to sell itself as a deep and philosophical movie about life and purpose and meaning, I think I would be kinder to it. It doesn't wink at the audience about its stupidity at all because it thinks it's so clever. That turns me right off.
 
Never said it didn't exist outside of GAF. But you can't deny that the movie has been the go-to target in plenty of threads.
That's because it's a target almost everywhere. I don't see any kind of GAF prejudice here, it's a pretty standard sci-fi geek audience reaction.
 
with the added bonus destroying the sense of mystery around the alien by making everything explicit in the most convoluted way possible.
Even if Prometheus and Alien Covenant were/are the worst movies in the history of movies and the worst movies in the future of the medium, they don't change or affect the original and its sequel in any way. Those movies are as is, and will never change. Just because other movies attempt to explain stuff doesn't make those movies any less mysterious or unsettling or whatnot in their presentation
 
I liked Prometheus. When I saw it twice and I appreciate it for what it does/is.

Low light: Old man guy pearce. Not sure why they went with the rubber suit
 
Even if Prometheus and Alien Covenant were/are the worst movies in the history of movies and the worst movies in the future of the medium, they don't change or affect the original and its sequel in any way. Those movies are as is, and will never change. Just because other movies attempt to explain stuff doesn't make those movies any less mysterious or unsettling or whatnot in their presentation

oh, you are so wrong. Covenant is going to change how viewers read Alien.

It's like how the star wars prequel do colour the OG franchise.
 

Famassu

Member
All I can say is that when I left the theater, I felt that it was probably the dumbest, worst blockbuster movie that I had seen in theater in quite awhile. Thought the plot was really stupid, the characters dumb beyond belief, and generally I just wasn't entertained, rather rolled my eyes what I felt was constant, unending idiocy in the film at the time of watching. It looked pretty, maybe sounded too (have forgot that side, really), but yeah, otherwise I thought it was easily one of the worst movies I'd seen in years. I mean, it wasn't The Room bad or anything, but it was nowhere good either.

And I hadn't read anything about the movie beforehand, (negative) impressions or general info. So I didn't expect it to be bad and neither was I overly hyped, so it's not like I'm just echoing other people's negative opinions I had heard beforehand or overreacting due to a highly anticipated thing failing to reach high expectations. I was maybe a little bit intriqued since I the only morsel of info I did know was that it connected to the Alien movies somehow. So I don't think I was too biased either way.

What I got was just one of those movies that I regret spending money on. And I'm a person who generally is fairly easily entertained and I try to not to be one of those overly negative nancies who shit on anything that isn't perfection/GOAT.
 
oh, you are so wrong. Covenant is going to change how viewers read Alien.

It's like how the star wars prequel do colour the OG franchise.
Only if one perceives as such. It's not like a switch in your brain automatically flips and suddenly you only can view things a certain way because of some other movie. It's only because you decide to.
 

Robot Pants

Member
All I can say is that when I left the theater, I felt that it was probably the dumbest, worst blockbuster movie that I had seen in theater in quite awhile. Thought the plot was really stupid, the characters dumb beyond belief, and generally I just wasn't entertained, rather rolled my eyes what I felt was constant, unending idiocy in the film at the time of watching. It looked pretty, maybe sounded too (have forgot that side, really), but yeah, otherwise I thought it was easily one of the worst movies I'd seen in years. I mean, it wasn't The Room bad or anything, but it was nowhere good either.

And I hadn't read anything about the movie beforehand, (negative) impressions or general info. So I didn't expect it to be bad and neither was I overly hyped, so it's not like I'm just echoing other people's negative opinions I had heard beforehand or overreacting due to a highly anticipated thing failing to reach high expectations. I was maybe a little bit intriqued since I the only morsel of info I did know was that it connected to the Alien movies somehow. So I don't think I was too biased either way.

What I got was just one of those movies that I regret spending money on. And I'm a person who generally is fairly easily entertained and I try to not to be one of those overly negative nancies who shit on anything that isn't perfection/GOAT.
But dude all this tells me is you don't watch a lot of movies huhuhuhu

I agree with you 100%
 

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
Currently in kind of a Alien mood and watched Alien 1-4 and Prometheus in the past 2 weeks (and playing AvP2 for that matter).

Despite some characters being stupid as fuck (which wasn't really new in the series anyway), I liked the film quite well. The only thing I really disliked what the fact that after all the buzz for this architect alien it didn't say squat when the awoke it but just went on rampage. Solid 7-8/10 movie.

Looking for forward to Covenant.
 

Z..

Member
Movie's not bad. It's just ok.

Filmgaf knows nothing, though, you should ignore any consensus on films you find here unless all you care about is mass market stuff.

So hyped for Covenant... Expecting nothing, but hoping for greatness!

oh, you are so wrong. Covenant is going to change how viewers read Alien.

It's like how the star wars prequel do colour the OG franchise.

Joke post? If not, you're being ridiculous.
 

Gravidee

Member
Ill never forget the main character having an alien ripped put of her, and then just continuing on like nothing happened and no mention of it to anyone as it just grows in that room. Quality lindelof stuff right there.

I think Shaw assumed the creature was dead after it went limp, and after that she was probably in too much shock from the event and at Weyland's appearance to say anything about it. Apparently at least Vickers was aware of it, but it was a very casual comment. Still a bad way to go about it though. There could have been an interesting scene with the security team investigating the room only to be attacked. Whatever happened to those guys that just drove off in the truck during the Fiefield incident?

Yeah, this movie has too many holes.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
But dude all this tells me is you don't watch a lot of movies huhuhuhu

I agree with you 100%
He said it was one of the worst blockbuster he had seen in a while, you said it was the worst movie you've ever seen.

I hope you see the difference.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
oh, you are so wrong. Covenant is going to change how viewers read Alien.

It's like how the star wars prequel do colour the OG franchise.

For Star Wars, I think that's more attributable to the fact that the mainline movies are narratively close-knit due to how it tells the story of the Skywalker bloodline and the events/other characters that surround them. So you can see why one set of films will most likely influence how one perceives another set due to that key aspect.

But for stuff like Prometheus and Covenant? They're so disconnected narratively and canonically that they're in "who cares" territory. They don't really have an influence on Ripley's stories and as for the Xenomorph itself, its backstory has never really had a role into what makes the creature so terrifying.
 
Ill never forget the main character having an alien ripped put of her, and then just continuing on like nothing happened and no mention of it to anyone as it just grows in that room. Quality lindelof stuff right there.
A guy once got a pipe blasted clean through his skull and brain and then walked home and asked for a doctor

The human body is resilient and shock/adrenaline can help you ignore pain for a while
 
Couple things:

Hey hey hey, if it ain't the 2012 movie that -- next to The Dark Knight Rises -- most of GAF just loves to shit on as the worst thing since rotten bread for some benign reason,

Not sure you meant to use "benign" there? It doesn't really make much sense in context, or at least I'm not seeing it. And

which doesn't make much sense considering that stuff like Suicide Squad exists in comparison.

The presence of other, shittier movies (that didn't come out in 2012, either) doesn't make discussion of this shitty movie weird. It's not as if those other, shittier movies, aren't also being discussed.

People are currently shitting on Prometheus because there's another Alien movie coming out and revisiting the whole series is going to be a thing that's happening - it's why you rewatched the movie, for example.

Granted, people have been shitting on it for 5 years now, that is true. But that's probably also due to the fact the film-focused side of this forum is heavily invested in

1) Long-running series
2) Franchises
3) Science-Fiction/Genre entertainment
4) Video Games (often based heavily on science-fiction/genre entertainment)
5) Blockbuster, Mainstream film
6) The "Creative Bankruptcy" of Hollywood (riiiiiight)

Being as Prometheus's venn diagram with a lot of people's above interest is—you guessed it—almost a full fuckin' circle, it shouldn't be a surprise there's been a low-level, constant hum of disappointment in the last five years, spiking with every bit of news about further chapters in the Alien saga.

Maybe I should re-watch Skyfall too eh?

That and Spectre, if you're being generous tonight, yeah. Especially if you're in a mood that gives bad (or non-existent - aside from Fifield, Shaw, David and Vickers [Weyland doesn't count] I couldn't tell you the names of ANYONE else in the movie) characterization a pass so long as the general genre formulas are executed competently, I think Spectre could rise in your estimation. I remember thinking, as I watched it on a lazy sunday, that it played like a Roger Moore movie starring Daniel Craig as Pierce Brosnan, and it played better at home than it did in the theater.

But Skyfall is a top 5 Bond already, so if you are feeling forgiving, definitely give that one a shot.

Prometheus' is beautiful but fucked. It's wine-drunk and babbling. It's running in circles and barking at a profundity it doesn't have the tools to grasp. Just clumsy, stupid pawing at the walls.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Only if one perceives as such. It's not like a switch in your brain automatically flips and suddenly you only can view things a certain way because of some other movie. It's only because you decide to.

Oh come on.

Another example: it's like how Mass Effect 3 ending retroactively makes people dislike the previous games or how it clouded the perception of people when viewing the series as a whole. Do you really think that when you replay ME1 your mind will still be able to say "Ooooh Reapers are so mysterious and awesome" if in the end you already knew about how stupid their origin story is in ME3?

Of course how you deal with the later iteration of something in a series matter in terms of how people view the series as a whole, and yes it can also affect the enjoyment its fans have when they're consuming the previous iterations of the series.
 
Did u like Prometheus is like the best barometer to tell if who ur about to talk to is an elitist prick

Is this satire?

Judging people's character solely by their taste in movies is a good way to end up with shitty fuckin' friends.

edit: Badass' point is a sound one. Sequels can only "taint" previous entries if you let them. It's easy not to let them. Really easy.

People facetiously brag about it in here all the time. Everytime they "pretend" a sequel never came out, as if the pain of bearing the burden of having watched a bad movie (or playing a bad game) is so impossible to get over that the only possible way forward is to act as if the memory never occurred.
 
For Star Wars, I think that's more attributable to the fact that the mainline movies are narratively close-knit due to how it tells the story of the Skywalker bloodline and the events/other characters that surround them. So you can see why one set of films will most likely influence how one perceives another set due to that key aspect.

But for stuff like Prometheus and Covenant? They're so disconnected narratively and canonically that they're in "who cares" territory. They don't really have an influence on Ripley's stories and as for the Xenomorph itself, its backstory has never really had a role into what makes the creature so terrifying.

not having seen Covenant: And I have - I can tell you that the prequels for Alien (which these are) does change how you read the movies. We all know that Covenant and its sequel will tie into Alien and it does. The narrative is moving that way and yes, Ripley's story is a stand alone experience but when you're watching it again after watching Covenant

spoilers for covenant
you'll be thinking: Oh, David the android engineered that alien

it's one of those, you can't unthink that things
 
Funny, I literally said to my coworker today "Prometheus isn't really as bad as I make it out to be, but it is fucking awful."

Hey hey hey, if it ain't the 2012 movie that -- next to The Dark Knight Rises -- most of GAF just loves to shit on as the worst thing since rotten bread for some benign reason, which doesn't make much sense considering that stuff like Suicide Squad exists in comparison.

That would require me to watch Suicide Squad.
 

Erigu

Member
A guy once got a pipe blasted clean through his skull and brain and then walked home and asked for a doctor
I would point out that things don't have to be physically impossible to take you out of a movie, but... even that guy you mentioned asked for a doctor. Shaw didn't even think to mention they had a fucking monster in the ship. Not even when Elba's character was telling her that he "can't bring none of that shit back home with [them]".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom