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[Shining Sunshine]

One of the more famous stories of faith in the Bible is God allowing a man's entirely family to slaughtered to test his faith

Maybe to mad man who wants to twist words for his convenience.

Unless you really believe a voice telling you to kill your family is a common occurrence, especially from a Being that teaches you that killing is bad.

 

[Jintor]

Maybe to mad man who wants to twist words for his convenience.

Unless you really believe a voice telling you to kill your family is a common occurrence, especially from a Being that teaches you that killing is bad.

Sorry, are we still talking about the Binding of Isaac or of another Biblical allegory?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Old Testament has little bearing on Christian theological beliefs other than as apocrypha or a loose fitting historical and storytelling narrative meant to impart moralistic teachings (at least it should). In the vast majority of sects, it's viewed as it should be, allegory for how despite being beset by trials, his faith was unwavering.

The New Testament is filled with passages on the importance of family.

This depends entirely on one's denomination. The idea that the OT has little bearing is straight nonsense.

 

[Aselith]

Old Testament has little bearing on Christian theological beliefs other than as apocrypha or a loose fitting historical and storytelling narrative meant to impart moralistic teachings (at least it should). In the vast majority of sects, it's viewed as it should be, allegory for how despite being beset by trials, his faith was unwavering.

The New Testament is filled with passages on the importance of family.

Passages about the importance of family are divorced from the idea that god is more important than the family. Those are two separate things.

And modern Christianity uses the Old Testament on an as needed basis to bolster their own beliefs so it does have bearing and sometimes significantly depending on how they want to apply it.

Maybe to mad man who wants to twist words for his convenience.

Unless you really believe a voice telling you to kill your family is a common occurrence, especially from a Being that teaches you that killing is bad.

Not sure what you're talking about, man. I'm talking about Job there. But yeah the Bible teaches you killing is bad except where it teaches you to stone gays and unfaithful women to death and people who blaspheme God's name and people who work on the Sabbath, etc

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

An anti-Scientology site run by a former member is calling bullshit.

http://tonyortega.org/2015/07/02/ho...he-church-of-scientology-a-primer/#more-23778

Star magazine doesn’t have the slightest idea whether Tom Cruise is actually leaving Scientology. In fact, Star magazine doesn’t have the slightest idea what Scientology is. All they know is that it’s a word that sells copies, and they love teasing readers with the idea that Tom is on his way out. They count on you not remembering, for example, that they said the exact same thing three years ago….

Well then this is likely bogus af then. Now if TMZ reported it I'd be inclined to believe it, they're the MI6 of celeb gossip.

 

[truly101]

Christianity doesn't make people choose between family and belief.

THAT'S A CORE PRINCIPLE OF THEIR VERY BELIEFS. I spent long enough in the seminary to know that.

Uh, yeah it does. Not in the way Scientology is doing here, but Jesus said in one of the gospels that whoever doesn't hate his mother or father cannot follow him. Now Jesus isn't talking about actually hating your parents or family, but he is saying your faith CAN come in conflict with what your family wants you to do and you will have to make a choice.

 

[Nickle]

I love it when Religious people laugh at the validity of Scientology.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

I bet Tom Cruise has one hell of a Clash of Clans base.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Do it Tom! The world wants its Maverick back!

 

[Tigress]

I love it when Religious people laugh at the validity of Scientology.

As an agnostic atheist, I honestly view Scientology far worse than many other religions (including christianity). I've heard and seen people where christianity helped them or they use it to make themselves better people. Scientology was created specifically to scam people and even worse, does so in a way to tear people apart and keep family's from talking to each other if one is a heathen all in the name of keeping the wool over the members' eyes who haven't "seen the light".

Scientology from everything I've read does nothing good for anyone except for the people on top who use it to pretty much to manipulate those below them. It actually makes many lives' worse in order to keep their members from possibly seeing what is happening.

So, yeah, I don't see it as a matter of belief like Christianity or Judaism or Budhism or whatever rather than a cult taking advantage of people. And purely that.

 

[Frozenprince]

Uh, yeah it does. Not in the way Scientology is doing here, but Jesus said in one of the gospels that whoever doesn't hate his mother or father cannot follow him. Now Jesus isn't talking about actually hating your parents or family, but he is saying your faith CAN come in conflict with what your family wants you to do and you will have to make a choice.

Luke 14 is the discussion of Jesus and the Pharisee’s about those who would be his disciples. He is discussing them, personally, about the cost of following him. Not the law of those that saw his coming as the messiah. It's meant as an example that those who do not know him may never follow him.

"Those who will not carry my cross may not follow me" means his trials and suffering must be known by those who walk with him, or they cannot understand him. His discussing throughout Luke 14 is about personal accountability in thinking of a choice rationally before making it. Not the essence of family.

The remainder of Luke is the story of Jesus and his parables for forgiveness of sin, the joys of repentance and love rather than the condemnation of the sinner.

This depends entirely on one's denomination. The idea that the OT has little bearing is straight nonsense.

The Catechism's of Pope John Paul explain what I am trying to say better.

It has little bearing because the OT is affirmed but not explicitly made to be law as it is to Judaism.

The solemnity of our Lord’s opening pronouncements and his clear intention of inaugurating a new religious movement make it necessary for him to explain his position with regard to the [Old Testament law]. He has not come to abrogate but to bring it to perfection, i.e. to reveal the full intention of the divine legislator. The sense of this "fulfilling" . . . is the total expression of God’s will in the old order . . . Far from dying . . . the old moral order is to rise to a new life, infused with a new spirit.

Most sects tend to lean towards that belief. Baptists tend to favor much of the OT for instance. But my Protestant teachings and upbringing taught that though it was affirmed and brought to new light, the OT was not our law. And as such it wasn't meant to be taken as such.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

As an agnostic atheist, I honestly view Scientology far worse than many other religions (including christianity). I've heard and seen people where christianity helped them or they use it to make themselves better people. Scientology was created specifically to scam people and even worse, does so in a way to tear people apart and keep family's from talking to each other if one is a heathen all in the name of keeping the wool over the members' eyes who haven't "seen the light".

Scientology from everything I've read does nothing good for anyone except for the people on top who use it to pretty much to manipulate those below them. It actually makes many lives' worse in order to keep their members from possibly seeing what is happening.

So, yeah, I don't see it as a matter of belief like Christianity or Judaism or Budhism or whatever rather than a cult taking advantage of people. And purely that.

History shows a different story. All religions have provoked terrible acts, much worse than anything scientology has the power to do. You could argue that it's not the religion but groups of people that claim the religion as their own, but then you could say the same of scientology.

In other words, it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Wow, you use a video game for your anecdotes? lol

Edit: unless you're not talking about the game...

 

[Tigress]

History shows a different story. All religions have provoked terrible acts, much worse than anything scientology has the power to do. You could argue that it's not the religion but groups of people that claim the religion as their own, but then you could say the same of scientology.

In other words, it's all a matter of perspective.

Ok... but name something Scientology has done good for? What tenants do they have that actually help their members become better people. Christianity has stuff like don't judge or stuff like forgiveness (yes, it has awful stuff too. Honestly, with Christianity what some one believes it tells them is more a reflection of them than the religion cause there is so much to pick and choose from).

Scientology was created specifically just to rip people off. And that is all it has ever tried to do. I guess you could argue it's younger than Christianity so maybe it will grow and get better (and honestly it seems this happened to Christianity cause a lot of the worst of it is the old testament).

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

It says a lot about this "religion" when they act like this. Hopefully Tom gets away from this and over time realizes how bad it was for him.

There's been a rumor that Kate separated from him because Suri was reaching the age where children of Scientologist parents are sent to "reprogramming school".

 

[Gambit 1138]

What a hero

 

[CadetMahoney]

This depends entirely on one's denomination. The idea that the OT has little bearing is straight nonsense.

Yea, ppl who say that are just damage controlling.

I love it when Religious people laugh at the validity of Scientology.

heh

 

[Trojita]

You've never read the bible eh? It's chalked full of the idea of putting God before your family. It's kind of a cornerstone of the whole thing. Put your faith into God and worship him/love him even more than your own family and good things will happen.

Binding of Isaac is only one but many examples of people being tested by choosing between family and God.

It's an isolated case like mass shootings in America are isolated incidents...

It's still not a part of Christian Church doctrine. In Scientologys case it is. You are going to have to find a lot of New Testament examples to even have a starting argument.

 

[adamsappel]

No real church would make a member choose between the church and his own daughter.

Christianity doesn't make people choose between family and belief.

THAT'S A CORE PRINCIPLE OF THEIR VERY BELIEFS. I spent long enough in the seminary to know that.

The Amish shun family members who leave the faith or even just the community. Don't Mormons also excommunicate members sometimes?

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

The Amish shun family members who leave the faith or even just the community. Don't Mormons also excommunicate members sometimes?

Jehovah's Witnesses do it, too. Source: it happened to my mom when I was a kid.

Her family mostly got over it, but she still wasn't allowed to attend the wedding of her little brother, who she basically raised.

 

[Nickle]

As an agnostic atheist, I honestly view Scientology far worse than many other religions (including christianity). I've heard and seen people where christianity helped them or they use it to make themselves better people. Scientology was created specifically to scam people and even worse, does so in a way to tear people apart and keep family's from talking to each other if one is a heathen all in the name of keeping the wool over the members' eyes who haven't "seen the light".

Scientology from everything I've read does nothing good for anyone except for the people on top who use it to pretty much to manipulate those below them. It actually makes many lives' worse in order to keep their members from possibly seeing what is happening.

So, yeah, I don't see it as a matter of belief like Christianity or Judaism or Budhism or whatever rather than a cult taking advantage of people. And purely that.

Scientology is a lot worse then most other religions, but a Christian who makes fun of Scientologists for believing in Xenu is no different from a smoker who makes fun of crackheads for being addicted to a drug.

 

[Kibbles]

Well then this is likely bogus af then. Now if TMZ reported it I'd be inclined to believe it, they're the MI6 of celeb gossip.

Yeah Star magazine has National-Enquirer-tier headlines all the time, they are trash of the trash mags. I'd be much more inclined to believe stuff from the more credible gossip sources like TMZ or US Weekly.

 

[Retrocore9]

Yeah Star magazine has National-Enquirer-tier headlines all the time, they are trash of the trash mags. I'd be much more inclined to believe stuff from the more credible gossip sources like TMZ or US Weekly.

Yep agreed. Tom Cruise enjoys the power of being one of the top tier Scientologists. He is not only a poster boy but is personal friends with David Miscaivage. He is a true believer. If that means spending less time with Suri, then that's what it takes to clear the planet.

Who else is going to be able to help when they see a car crash? I mean, have you ever met a suppressive person! Someday we'll be reading about them in the history books!

 

[Monocle]

I'd be really surprised if this was true, but I wish him good luck.

Christianity doesn't make people choose between family and belief.

THAT'S A CORE PRINCIPLE OF THEIR VERY BELIEFS. I spent long enough in the seminary to know that.

A huge number of homeless teens are queer kids who were booted out onto the streets by their religious parents. Please don't try to tell me there aren't millions of Christians who cultivate homophobia in their communities with the endorsement of Leviticus and the approval of their pastors. It would be profoundly insulting to all the dead and disowned LGBT people to make excuses for Christianity on this count.

 

[BocoDragon]

As an agnostic atheist, I honestly view Scientology far worse than many other religions (including christianity). I've heard and seen people where christianity helped them or they use it to make themselves better people. Scientology was created specifically to scam people and even worse, does so in a way to tear people apart and keep family's from talking to each other if one is a heathen all in the name of keeping the wool over the members' eyes who haven't "seen the light".

Scientology from everything I've read does nothing good for anyone except for the people on top who use it to pretty much to manipulate those below them. It actually makes many lives' worse in order to keep their members from possibly seeing what is happening.

So, yeah, I don't see it as a matter of belief like Christianity or Judaism or Budhism or whatever rather than a cult taking advantage of people. And purely that.

I think Scientology as a whole is inherently worse than most "World Religions" of 2015, this is true. But give it time. Many "World Religions" began as similarly belligerant and problematic cults. Then they mellowed out, by liberalizing, or just assuming power and no longer fighting the powers that be, because they became the powers that be. Imagine a situation where Scientology does take over civilization, and I'll show you something that looks like the Catholic church in the middle ages, or the Caliphate.

We have a modern paper trail for how Scientology was a deliberate scam. But then again, a lot of "prophets" were opportunists who used their supposed connection with the divine to assume power, resources and sex. I think many of them were essentially cons orchestrated by pathological liars who told a few tall tales and eventually came to believe their own drivel when it delivered them a seat of authority.

 

[THRILLH0]

I love it when Religious people laugh at the validity of Scientology.

I love it when atheists can't understand the difference.

 

[PAULINK]

if he does, maybe I will watch the new mission impossible movie.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

This topic isn't about Christianism. This topic is about Scientology.

 

[nocturnalis]

This topic isn't about Christianism. This topic is about Scientology.

Christianity?

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

This topic isn't about Christianism. This topic is about Scientology.

Things evolve.

 

[Leithkorias]

I don't know why anyone here thinks he'd be an instrument of the "church's" doom. If he leaves its supposedly for his daughter, not because he's had a falling out with the church.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Why does this church exert so much control over its members?

Reminds me of cult dynamics.

It reminds you of that cause it is a cult.

 

[Nafai1123]

Man, I really hope he ends up leaving. It would be a HUGE hit to the "church" if he speaks openly about it after the fact.

 

[waypoetic]

Fuck Scientology.

Weird how you can say that on here and get away with it, but get banned for saying the same thing but saying "fuck christianity/islam" instead.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't say that, but some of the mods here don't seem too keen on people voicing their strong opinions on christianity or islam - and they ban them for it.
I suppose they see those two religions as "sacred" and not to be questioned or criticized........................

 

[Raistlin]

Weird how you can say that on here and get away with it, but get banned for saying the same thing but saying "fuck christianity/islam" instead.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't say that, but some of the mods here don't seem too keen on people voicing their strong opinions on christianity or islam - and they ban them for it.
I suppose they see those two religions as "sacred" and not to be questioned or criticized........................

I assume that fact Scientology was admitted as having been created in order to make money puts it on a somewhat different playing field.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Suri is already 9? God time flies.

 

[Stinkles]

Weird how you can say that on here and get away with it, but get banned for saying the same thing but saying "fuck christianity/islam" instead.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't say that, but some of the mods here don't seem too keen on people voicing their strong opinions on christianity or islam - and they ban them for it.
I suppose they see those two religions as "sacred" and not to be questioned or criticized........................

Real talk:

Both of those Abrahamic religions are parts of almost every poster's culture, including yours, and both of those Abrahamic religions contain aspects of genuine goodness and charity and messages of love and forgiveness.

Scientology has nothing of the kind. Bluntly Islam and Christianity are more like "nations" than religions in some ways.


Is that fair, or rational? Maybe not. But neither Christianity nor Islam are EXCLUSIVELY set up as a pyramid scheme con.

 

[Quake1028]

Suri is already 9? God time flies.

Was just coming to post that.

 

[Moff]

Weird how you can say that on here and get away with it..

the only weird thing is that you don't see the difference.
scientology is not a religion, and in most civilized countries it is not recognized as one.
and in my opinion, it's not even a cult, there is nothing spiritual about it. it's front is a therapy movement based on bogus science, but it's methods are borderline legal and very close to organized crime, people are getting harrassed, blackmailed, intimidated and threatened on a daily basis. I am not too fond of christianity and islam either, they sure had their fair share of cruelty done in their names, but I recognize and respect that most christians and muslims live a peaceful life under spiritual guidance of their religion.
that's not the case with scientology, it's all about profit and brainwashing there.

 

[Kinokou]

If so I can finally stop boycotting any movie he stars in.

 

[waypoetic]

Real talk:

Both of those Abrahamic religions are parts of almost every poster's culture, including yours, and both of those Abrahamic religions contain aspects of genuine goodness and charity and messages of love and forgiveness.

Scientology has nothing of the kind. Bluntly Islam and Christianity are more like "nations" than religions in some ways.

Real talk: moderators on NeoGAF don't allow people to bash christianity or islam (or judaism i suppose). I've been banned for a light hearted joke about christians and their faith and i've been banned for expressing my thoughts about what child indoctrination does to a kid and how i feel about it.
Now, make a light hearted joke about a republican or a liberal and see what happens; nothing. Because you're just joking about an ideology, a set of ideas. A joke directed towards the ideology of christianity is off limits however. It's a set of ideas that aren't even scientific; a belief that giants walked the Earth, that Earth itself is a young Earth, that angels exist and that man was made from dirt and woman from a freaking rib.

You may draw goodness from those religions. I don't. I've read the bible and i'm on my way of finishing the qur'an. And in a lot of churches around the world, they do behave in the same way as the Church of Scientology and their churches, but no, they're not pyramid schemes - but they do steal money from people.

the only weird thing is that you don't see the difference.
scientology is not a religion, and in most civilized countries it is not recognized as one.
and in my opinion, it's not even a cult, there is nothing spiritual about it. it's front is a therapy movement based on bogus science, but it's methods are borderline legal and very close to organized crime, people are getting harrassed, blackmailed, intimidated and threatened on a daily basis. I am not too fond of christianity and islam either, they sure had their fair share of cruelty done in their names, but I recognize and respect that most christians and muslims live a peaceful life under spiritual guidance of their religion.
that's not the case with scientology, it's all about profit and brainwashing there.

It was set up as a con, yes i know. "You know what i could make money on? By inventing a religion!". You know how religions are created? By men who want money and power. You could create one right now and it would still be as legit as the christian religion. There was no Jesus, there is no God and you can't prove it as much as you can't disprove that there's a flying teapot over at Pluto right now.

 

[BocoDragon]

Weird how you can say that on here and get away with it, but get banned for saying the same thing but saying "fuck christianity/islam" instead.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't say that, but some of the mods here don't seem too keen on people voicing their strong opinions on christianity or islam - and they ban them for it.
I suppose they see those two religions as "sacred" and not to be questioned or criticized........................

Real talk: moderators on NeoGAF don't allow people to bash christianity or islam (or judaism i suppose). I've been banned for a light hearted joke about christians and their faith and i've been banned for expressing my thoughts about what child indoctrination does to a kid and how i feel about it.
Now, make a light hearted joke about a republican or a liberal and see what happens; nothing. Because you're just joking about an ideology, a set of ideas. A joke directed towards the ideology of christianity is off limits however. It's a set of ideas that aren't even scientific; a belief that giants walked the Earth, that Earth itself is a young Earth, that angels exist and that man was made from dirt and woman from a freaking rib.

You may draw goodness from those religions. I don't. I've read the bible and i'm on my way of finishing the qur'an. And in a lot of churches around the world, they do behave in the same way as the Church of Scientology and their churches, but no, they're not pyramid schemes - but they do steal money from people.

Wait .. are you kidding? GAF is like a Christianity bashing machine. I do it all the time.

You were surely banned for an aggressive tone, not for a blunt statement of condemnation of Christianity...?

 

[Miles X]

I hope the only "dirt" they have on him is that he's gay (which is pretty obvious anyway ...) and nothing criminal.

If he is indeed being bribed to stay in the church, I hope he can sue the absolute fuck out of them when he leaves.

 

[massoluk]

Wait .. are you kidding? GAF is like a Christianity bashing machine. I do it all the time.

You were surely banned for an aggressive tone, not for a blunt statement of condemnation of Christianity...?

Yeah, I dished a few toward Christianity, haven't been banned for them yet.

 

[Moff]

It was set up as a con, yes i know. "You know what i could make money on? By inventing a religion!". You know how religions are created? By men who want money and power. You could create one right now and it would still be as legit as the christian religion. There was no Jesus, there is no God and you can't prove it as much as you can't disprove that there's a flying teapot over at Pluto right now.

that's completely irrelevant. it's about the methods they use, how they treat their followers and how they deal with outsiders on a daily basis. that's the difference.

 

[Nocebo]

I love it when atheists can't understand the difference.

What's the difference? How are the members of Scientology not religious?

 

[Aselith]

I love it when atheists can't understand the difference.

The only difference is time on the field.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

People who keep downplaying Scientology's evil acts by saying "But what about X, what about Y" are the reason we can't crush Scientology.

 

[Punchy4486]

Things evolve.

Not if you're a Christian.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Christianity doesn't make people choose between family and belief.

THAT'S A CORE PRINCIPLE OF THEIR VERY BELIEFS. I spent long enough in the seminary to know that.

God first