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[Kampfheld]

Man. Nah. That's a really misleading title and not exactly what the article says. It is not really focused on the Xbox division.

Also, it needs to be said that Microsoft just grew at about 30.000 new people due to the Nokia purchase.

They will have many positions that are occupied with multiple people now. They need to clean these up. That's why the article says "overlap".

That said, cutting positions is always bad if course. In this case however it was just inevitable due to the Nokia purchase.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It says global marketing team, then mentions the UK office. I don't know why the EU office is mentioned otherwise.

I don't know, possibly the same reason why at the end of the previous paragraph they mention Microsoft is based in Redmond, Washington. In any case, that's the connection that you've made, it's not stated in the source article.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I don't know, possibly the same reason why at the end of the previous paragraph they mention Microsoft is based in Redmond, Washington. In any case, that's the connection that you've made, it's not stated in the source article.

Maybe not the European part being specified sure but here

Some of the job cuts will be in marketing departments for businesses such as the global Xbox team, said the people. The European Xbox team is based in Reading, U.K.

It clearly states their sources point to some job losses in the "global Xbox team" whatever that means. I do agree though that the follow-up sentence is the most poorly positioned I have ever seen. It's great to know where the European Xbox team is based, Dina but what does it have to do with the article? Are they the ones being let go or not? Very unclear

 

[Polk]

Wait, so not only MS ended their relationship with Edelman in few countries but also they are cutting their own marketing team?
I know phase 2 countries aren't that big, but they give away them to Sony without any fight it seems.

 

[nynt9]

I don't know, possibly the same reason why at the end of the previous paragraph they mention Microsoft is based in Redmond, Washington. In any case, that's the connection that you've made, it's not stated in the source article.

Well then a mod can edit it.

Man. Nah. That's a really misleading title and not exactly what the article says. It is not really focused on the Xbox division.

Also, it needs to be said that Microsoft just grew at about 30.000 new people due to the Nokia purchase.

They will have many positions that are occupied with multiple people now. They need to clean these up.

That said, cutting positions is always bad if course. In this case however it was just inevitable due to the Nokia purchase.

There's only so much you can fit into a title, I said "including Xbox marketing" which means it's not the only thing being cut. Nokia cuts aren't really relevant to gaming side which is why I didn't mention it in the title (also no room) - it's all outlined in the first post anyway.

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

About time, Xbox is doing terrible...

 

[Xando]

They have Marketing teams for Europe? Then why do we have exactly the same ads as the Americans?

 

[mrklaw]

Most of the cuts will be due to integration of Nokia's hardware division.

They are also in the process of consolidating their marketing teams to a more central marketing division that covers all products and services instead of different product groups having their own marketing teams.

But there isn't that much overlap other than the usual common functions like marketing, HR, finance etc. MS would want to keep Nokia's factories and physical production. They don't have any phone program's either I assume, so those would need to stay. The OS software team is already MS side rather than Nokia so no big overlap there.

Sales and marketing maybe, but sales would be fairly specialised Vs MS, with the need to sell in to specialist phone retail stores and operators - again not sure how much overlap there is there.

Also Nokia had been cutting like crazy so how much fat is there left to trim?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Please let Mehdi be on the chopping block.

The guy is an absolute ass and he needs to go.

 

[CaptainSlow]

Please let Mehdi be on the chopping block.

The guy is an absolute ass and he needs to go.

Right with you good sir. He's nothing but a negative.

 

[Steelyuhas]

But there isn't that much overlap other than the usual common functions like marketing, HR, finance etc. MS would want to keep Nokia's factories and physical production. They don't have any phone program's either I assume, so those would need to stay. The OS software team is already MS side rather than Nokia so no big overlap there.

Sales and marketing maybe, but sales would be fairly specialised Vs MS, with the need to sell in to specialist phone retail stores and operators - again not sure how much overlap there is there.

Also Nokia had been cutting like crazy so how much fat is there left to trim?

MS has a significant hardware division. I'm sure there's plenty of overlap as well as a Nokia division that's in need of streamlining/consolidation. MS operates on very high net margins (higher than Apple and Google), the Nokia division they acquired does not generate the revenue to justify 30k employees by MSFT's standards.

 

[mrklaw]

MS has a significant hardware division. I'm sure there's plenty of overlap as well as a Nokia division that's in need of streamlining/consolidation. MS operates on very high net margins (higher than Apple and Google), the Nokia division they acquired does not generate the revenue to justify 30k employees by MSFT's standards.

Have they had Nokia long enough to even know where to make cuts? Hasn't it only been a few months?

 

[FeiRR]

This is very standard for an acquisition like this. Not only do you have redundancies and a new structure to implement when integration the new company, but the Nokia hardware division is also huge in terms of number of employees.

Restructuring and streamlining their hardware division with the implementation is the only thing that makes sense.

Yes, I know this kind of "culture" is standard in multinationals. But for what sake should it be like that? For shareholders who are rich and will get richer? What greater good does it serve that one company grows stronger and others perish? Microsoft has mediocre products, especially in the hardware. I have no reason to wish them well. Nokia had very good phones back in the days: reliable, long-lasting. When I compare it with crappy Microsoft hardware, there's no competition.

Obviously sucks for the employees that will lose their jobs, but this is how these things work.

This is how things work according to the capitalistic ethos you follow. I don't.

 

[GoofsterStud]

I hope all the people involved find a new job.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

The Mehdi witch hunt is ridiculous, you know nothing about him and the way he does his job except for the fact that his position is not focused on gaming, he's not the most natural looking presenter (although, for what it's worth, he seems to be my girlfriend's favorite Microsoft spokesperson because she thinks he's hot), and he's made a few questionable public statements, which is something that most executives in this business have done at some point. GAF can be such a terrible place sometimes.

 

[Alx]

I don't understand how MS is doing so poorly in EU.
Their main bread and butter are FPS and car IPs...I thought EU love that stuff.

Well first that's a huge stereotype, and second all platforms offer FPS and car games, so it's not like MS has some exclusivity there.

 

[Phat Michael]

Hopefully Yusef is on the chopping block as well. The man just never says the right things when someone has a microphone in his face.

Still terrible people are losing their jobs. At least game development isn't hurt by this if you want to find some silver lining.

Also, MS just needs to overhaul their entire marketing and public relation teams.

That is really shitty thing to say that you hope someone gets fired. You know how you solve that problem of someone saying the "wrong things"? you retrain them. You speak to them. You dont fire them just because you personally dont like them.

Have you seen the brand key he has developed? Or how the events or organised are executed? PR is but one element of marketing (You have no idea how he executes his ATL/BTL collaterals) and wishing someone to lose their job is just ridiculous.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

mmm Understandable because the EU xbox is doing very poorly.
BUT its launching in throughout Europe early September and Gamescom is coming up so yeah not having a good PR department now in the EU is a bit weird :O

 

[mrklaw]

mmm Understandable because the EU xbox is doing very poorly.
BUT its launching in throughout Europe early September and Gamescom is coming up so yeah not having a good PR department now in the EU is a bit weird :O

They could just choose to consolidate under global marketing. And then in a couple of years change their minds and set up regional marketing again. That's just what big companies do - consolidate - diversify - consolidate round and round they go.

I figured it is a bit early, but it is the end of their financial year so they probably have to announce something.

 

[aTTckr]

Yes, I know this kind of "culture" is standard in multinationals. But for what sake should it be like that? For shareholders who are rich and will get richer? What greater good does it serve that one company grows stronger and others perish? Microsoft has mediocre products, especially in the hardware. I have no reason to wish them well. Nokia had very good phones back in the days: reliable, long-lasting. When I compare it with crappy Microsoft hardware, there's no competition.

That's kind of the only objective a publicly traded company has...

This is how things work according to the capitalistic ethos you follow. I don't.

Nice for you, but things will get difficult for a company in a free market environment if it doesn't act in a profit maximizing way. Either it does or another company will come and do it for them.

 

[Mix Master]

i hope i can throw in phil harrison in this witch hunt too, guy spins more than a washing machine on a full load.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Have they had Nokia long enough to even know where to make cuts? Hasn't it only been a few months?

They have people getting paid to do just this. Obviously this kind of thing isn't done lightly.

Yes, I know this kind of "culture" is standard in multinationals. But for what sake should it be like that? For shareholders who are rich and will get richer? What greater good does it serve that one company grows stronger and others perish? Microsoft has mediocre products, especially in the hardware. I have no reason to wish them well. Nokia had very good phones back in the days: reliable, long-lasting. When I compare it with crappy Microsoft hardware, there's no competition.


This is how things work according to the capitalistic ethos you follow. I don't.

MSFT is a publically traded company, they have a responsibility to their shareholders to run the most efficient and profitable company they can. They aren't going to be overstaffed just for the sake of not keeping any many people employed as possible. In any case, if you look at the big picture, MS is a huge company that provides good careers with great pay and benefits to a lot of people.

We can talk about Nokia's hardware all we want, but the fact is that despite it being excellent, Nokia's hardware division has not turned significant profits in a long time. Despite their close partnership with MS on Windows Phone, the partnership was still limited by being separate companies, they couldn't fully take advantage of software and hardware development together while remaining separate, especially in an environment where MS is third fiddle to iOS and Android.

They are making smart business decisions here, and they have to. It's the nature of the free market system.

 

[FeiRR]

That is really shitty thing to say that you hope someone gets fired. You know how you solve that problem of someone saying the "wrong things"? you retrain them. You speak to them. You dont fire them just because you personally dont like them.

That's exactly NOT what's going to happen to those 6k people. Mind you, most of them haven't probably even made a mistake Mehdi did. They probably did their jobs well. Now they're getting fired just because they don't fit the scheme. So why did Microsoft buy Nokia in the first place if a significant part of staff don't fit the scheme? Because they know they would fire them. I spoke to some Finnish people back when the takeover happened. They already knew what was going to happen.

 

[Phat Michael]

i hope i can throw in phil harrison in this witch hunt too, guy spins more than a washing machine on a full load.

ive never been on a forum before where people actually want others to get fired and lose their jobs. That is a fucking new low for me.

 

[Blastoise]

Wow I didn't know that they took on around 30,000 employees from Nokia. This now seems a bit more practical.

 

[Phat Michael]

That's exactly NOT what's going to happen to those 6k people. Mind you, most of them haven't probably even made a mistake Mehdi did. They probably did their jobs well. Now they're getting fired just because they don't fit the scheme. So why did Microsoft buy Nokia in the first place if a significant part of staff don't fit the scheme? Because they know they would fire them. I spoke to some Finnish people back when the takeover happened. They already knew what was going to happen.

That's nothing to do with what i said - when people lose their jobs, it sucks. But this guy actively wished for a single person to get fired. Corporate restructurings are terrible things, ive been involved in some (During the recession here). But ive never actually wished for someone to lose their job just because i dont like their messaging.

 

[Figments]

Yes, I know this kind of "culture" is standard in multinationals. But for what sake should it be like that? For shareholders who are rich and will get richer? What greater good does it serve that one company grows stronger and others perish? Microsoft has mediocre products, especially in the hardware. I have no reason to wish them well. Nokia had very good phones back in the days: reliable, long-lasting. When I compare it with crappy Microsoft hardware, there's no competition.


This is how things work according to the capitalistic ethos you follow. I don't.

Why should a company have to serve the greater good? That's not their role in society. Their primary function is to make money. That's how economics work. Keeping redundant positions out of the goodness of their heart only puts them in a worse position.

I'm sorry you feel that they should be coddling you.

Spoiler

And I happen to like Microsoft hardware, thank you very much. >:V

That's exactly NOT what's going to happen to those 6k people. Mind you, most of them haven't probably even made a mistake Mehdi did. They probably did their jobs well. Now they're getting fired just because they don't fit the scheme. So why did Microsoft buy Nokia in the first place if a significant part of staff don't fit the scheme? Because they know they would fire them. I spoke to some Finnish people back when the takeover happened. They already knew what was going to happen.

...what.

I'm sorry, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Microsoft bought Nokia in order to strengthen their Windows Phone division by having both software and hardware under one roof. They didn't do it because they're actively desiring to lay people off. And that's what's happening here. They're not being fired. They're being let go. Hopefully some of them have a chance to come back under another division, but it's not like they're being booted out the door for no good reason.

 

[Mexen]

What a shame. Losing a job is never pleasant. However, from experience, you can choose to make the best out of it. Good luck to them.

 

[Alx]

So why did Microsoft buy Nokia in the first place if a significant part of staff don't fit the scheme?

When a company buys another one, there are always redundancies, with some tasks that were done in the bought company that are already handled by the buying one. Reducing the number of employees is just natural practice in that case. Yes that sucks, and that's why employees are rarely happy when their company get bought, but that's how it works. MS didn't buy Nokia out of charity for their staff.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Well first that's a huge stereotype, and second all platforms offer FPS and car games, so it's not like MS has some exclusivity there.

Yes to both. One of the reasons why they're doing poorly is the lack of infrastructure (including marketing) compared to other platform holders, at least in some parts of Europe.

The other is tradition; PlayStation was the first truly successful console in many parts of Europe, where home computers like Spectrum, C64, Amiga and Atari ST were much more prevalent in the 8-bit and the 16-bit days. So for a while PlayStation basically was the console business, and toppling it will require a lot of investment and effort.

Finally, Europe is not a homogenous entity, there are many very different countries requiring very specific approaches, localization and differentiation. In my experience, that's also an area in which Microsoft has been lagging behind Sony (not sure about Nintendo).

 

[Seik]

That is really shitty thing to say that you hope someone gets fired. You know how you solve that problem of someone saying the "wrong things"? you retrain them. You speak to them. You dont fire them just because you personally dont like them.

Have you seen the brand key he has developed? Or how the events or organised are executed? PR is but one element of marketing (You have no idea how he executes his ATL/BTL collaterals) and wishing someone to lose their job is just ridiculous.

ive never been on a forum before where people actually want others to get fired and lose their jobs. That is a fucking new low for me.

That's nothing to do with what i said - when people lose their jobs, it sucks. But this guy actively wished for a single person to get fired. Corporate restructurings are terrible things, ive been involved in some (During the recession here). But ive never actually wished for someone to lose their job just because i dont like their messaging.

You're seeing it bigger than it is. It's not like people were all ''Yeah, that'll teach them! ''

People are criticizing only Yusef so far, with valid points most of the time. (EDIT: Not endorsing that Phil Harrison post though. lol)

The man probably does in the 6+ numbers for his annual salary, he would survive, trust me, even better, he'll find another place in a heartbeat, probably.

The really sad story is for all the employees that will get cut.

 

[Renekton]

Same. I want incompetent people who STILL spew bullshit to lose their jobs. Nobody wants good, hardworking honest people to lose their jobs.

Your post rubbed me the wrong way, I hope you lose your job.

Spoiler

Not really of course but you get the idea

 

[Caayn]

Hopefully Yusef is on the chopping block as well. The man just never says the right things when someone has a microphone in his face.

Please let Mehdi be on the chopping block.

The guy is an absolute ass and he needs to go.

i hope i can throw in phil harrison in this witch hunt too, guy spins more than a washing machine on a full load.

Woaahh, I'm not going to defend these guys but to say that you actually hope that they get kicked out of their job is a bit too far ain't it.

I know Yusuf Mehdi isn't the most likable person on the Xbox team but he isn't afraid to tell how he perceives things, no matter how much you hate what he says. There's an entire team involved, the things that happen at Xbox aren't just one mans decisions.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Please let Mehdi be on the chopping block.

The guy is an absolute ass and he needs to go.

Wow...

Chill out, buddy!

 

[Hockeymac18]

Microsoft has mediocre products, especially in the hardware. I have no reason to wish them well. Nokia had very good phones back in the days: reliable, long-lasting. When I compare it with crappy Microsoft hardware, there's no competition.

I know you seen to have a strong anti-MS bias and are trying to make your case, but this set of points is not a good way to get there. MS actually makes some great pieces of hardware. Some of the best mice I've ever had were MS mice. The Xbox One is very well built. The surface devices are of very high quality, and are great devices to use. The Zune HD's were so great when they came out.

The only piece of hardware they have released recently that has had legitimate hardware issues was the original 360 models. I still thought they were cool when they came out, but they did cut too many corners to make that 2005 launch to beat Sony. They still managed to pack it with pretty good specs, despite the motherboard issues and the newer versions of the 360 have been pretty nice, but they should have dealt with that sooner.

Sure you could go on about how some of the hardware they release doesn't sell as well as other (Apple) devices, etc., but it isn't because they're not high quality/built well. If anything, their low end tablets could be made cheaper to compete better with the really cheap Android tablets.

I do think Nokia makes (made) some awesome hardware. The Nokia icon I have more has been one of my favorite phones ever. I wish Nokia had a bigger presence in the US before, could never get them on stupid Verizon...I am sad to see them go, and am not super thrilled about the acquisition... But at least the company is still around (huge here maps fan, huzzah for offline makes!).

This is how things work according to the capitalistic ethos you follow. I don't.

Yeah, I get what you're saying but Europe is still plenty capitalistic. Don't get me wrong, I love your continent and the way you guys live life, but it's not hard to see that people still like their stuff over there. Yeah, might be in different ways, and not to the same degree as we (often embarrassingly) take it to over here in the states, but we're not all that different from each other at our cores.


I do enjoy that it is much less intense over there, though. And that you guys are good at keeping the huge companies in check a lot better than our country does...we could definitely learn a thing, or two, from that Euro culture (yeah I know there are a lot of countries I'm lumping together, but I think you get my point).

But unfortunately this nasty stuff is the reality of the work we live in now. Especially now that the world markets are more intertwined than ever before. I certainly am not a fan, but I am also realistic and understand why it occurs.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Hopefully Yusef is on the chopping block as well. The man just never says the right things when someone has a microphone in his face.

Still terrible people are losing their jobs. At least game development isn't hurt by this if you want to find some silver lining.

Also, MS just needs to overhaul their entire marketing and public relation teams.

Wow... just wow.

 

[FeiRR]

Why should a company have to serve the greater good? That's not their role in society.

I have a different opinion on that.

Keeping redundant positions out of the goodness of their heart only puts them in a worse position.

Those people are redundant because they don't fit in the Microsoft's scheme. Maybe they are good, qualified and reliable workers. But it doesn't matter. Nobody's even going to check that. So it's a lie that they're not valuable assets. They just go because the policy has been set.

I'm sorry you feel that they should be coddling you.

You don't want the best for yourself as a customer? Well, that's your choice. I will stick to my own.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Why would you want someone to lose their job? What's wrong with you?

If you suck ass at your job, you don't deserve your job.

Why do people keep thinking that having a job is a right and that any firing is terrible?

Let's give Bernie Madoff his job back. Poor guy lost it a few years ago.

 

[Hockeymac18]

Those people are redundant because they don't fit in the Microsoft's scheme. Maybe they are good, qualified and reliable workers.

They probably are, which makes it even more crappy that this stuff happens. It is never fair.

But it doesn't matter. Nobody's even going to check that. So it's a lie that they're not valuable assets. They just go because the policy has been set.

Unfortunately, it's probably not as clear cut as you think it was. There are real people behind the decisions, and I'm certain most/all feel horrible about it. This stuff has to messy and painful for everyone. I wouldn't want to be on either side, frankly.

But they did keep must of those 30,000 people, at least. They could have just taken the IP/ technology and laid everyone off, but it's obvious they saw worth in a great amount of Nokia employees. I personally wish no one would lose their jobs in these situations, but of course that is unrealistic. And yes, it sucks.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Well EU marketing isn't doing a very good job.

Especially whoever authorised that hideous Aaron Paul ad over here.

 

[1337]

There is an EU marketing department for Xbox? Are you sure?

 

[mrklaw]

Especially whoever authorised that hideous Aaron Paul ad over here.

and if they are cutting back on the European Xbox marketing team, we'll only get more of those.

 

[Caayn]

There is an EU marketing department for Xbox? Are you sure?

Someone needs to translate, Xbox > Xbox.

But in all seriousness. Those marketing teams most likely translate, get commercial time on TV add spaces in newspapers etc. etc. and take care of the countries legal stuff regarding the marketing.

 

[TrafalgarLaw]

I don't get why people are dogging him for wanting Yusuf to be let go. Not even a year ago you were all chanting demonic verses to have Mattrick and Orth to be let go, and the latter dude for something as simple as a twitter tweet. If he thinks Yusuf is doing a poor job, he has the right to voice his opinion even if it is as extreme as being fired.

Someone getting fired may mean someone better is going to helm the company.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

 

[FeiRR]

I know you seen to have a strong anti-MS bias and are trying to make your case, but this set of points is not a good way to get there. MS actually makes some great pieces of hardware. Some of the best mice I've ever had were MS mice. The Xbox One is very well built. The surface devices are of very high quality, and are great devices to use. The Zune HD's were so great when they came out.

Why not? I'm not trying to hide my opinion under trolling. I do think Microsoft's hardware is poorly designed and unreliable. I had plenty of their devices to base my opinion on experience. And I consider Xbox One a terrible design failure: a console which can't render fullHD in 2013 is a joke. Surface tablets? How can a tablet have two irreplaceable fans which will break or become really noisy in about 2 years of use. That's failed design for me. A 360 I had was also terribly noisy. Why? Because they saved on fans and heat management.

I do enjoy that it is much less intense over there, though. And that you guys are good at keeping the huge companies in check a lot better than our country does...we could definitely learn a thing, or two, from that Euro culture (yeah I know there are a lot of countries I'm lumping together, but I think you get my point).

That's exactly why I can't get your point. Europe isn't a country and there are multiple nations, philosophies and beliefs here. And still, if you go down to a country level, people are different too. But many multinationals think that you can throw the same stuff at everybody and just collect money. As many people here pointed, Microsoft's advertising isn't even different from American, not to mention any differences in culture across the European continent. That's why rebranding Nokia into Microsoft isn't going to work just like Xbox will fail in Europe for the third time.

But unfortunately this nasty stuff is the reality of the work we live in now. Especially now that the world markets are more intertwined than ever before. I certainly am not a fan, but I am also realistic and understand why it occurs.

Who said I don't? I appreciate you and all the others in the thread who want to teach me economics 101 but thanks, I am familiar with all that. I just don't follow the money cult and won't agree that inevitable equals necessary.

Anyway, I've posted too much in this thread. Thanks for the discussion

 

[davepoobond]

they should fire everyone and then sell xbox to samsung

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I can't believe how much shit people are giving others for saying they want Yusef gone.

Yes on the one hand it is shitty to want someone to be fired but when you're talking about one of the heads of a whole division who is a millionaire and will have no trouble sliming his way into another company I don’t see what the issue is. Fact is he is a big cause of concern for anyone who follows the industry because he seems to like saying the worst possible thing when he is ever spoken to and for those who actually want Microsoft to succeed it’s a totally fair opinion to have.

Now if people were saying 'good' at everyone else who is getting the sack then yeah, that would be terrible as there is bound to be many who won't have such an easy time bouncing back as Yusuf but I have yet to see anyone do that.

 

[J10]

Instead of firing six thousand people why don't they give the highest paid executives pay cuts? At least that way everybody gets to keep their jobs and the already rich executives won't be hurting.

 

[Xando]

Instead of firing six thousand people why don't they give the highest paid executives pay cuts? At least that way everybody gets to keep their jobs and the already rich executives won't be hurting.

Poor executives cant live without 20x the money a normal nokia worker gets
thats unfair