Support NeoGAF

[AnotherOne]

Those are juicy specs let's hope they're accurate.

 

[Barakov]

Sounds like GDC 2019 could be very interesting. I reeaaaaaaaaalllllly hope MS focuses on making this thing fast. A SSD in this thing would help with that, I think.

 

[ethomaz]

What devices or components have GDDR6 today? Graphics card. What cards have 16GB memory? Maybe the Quadro line? And for how much? I think pricing would be prohibitive.

16GDDR doesn't seem possible today but as I said, it could go either way in that regard.

I hope is true, though. It would be a beast of a machine but up until this point it sounds more like a pipe dream than anything else.

Thanks for the correction about GDDR and DDR, though.

That is not how it works.

For a 256bits you need multiple of 8 modules of memory.

For PS4 you have only 512MB (4Gb) modules in the market so 512MB x 8 = 4GB but Sony bet the 1GB (8Gb) modules will be released before the PS4 launch so they could get 1GB x 8 = 8GB (that is what they call bold move... Sony bet in a product that didn't existed on the market).

Actually we already have 2GB (16Gb) GDDR6 modules in the market: K4ZAF325BM-HC14 e K4ZAF325BM-HC16.

So 2GB x 8 = 16GB.

GDDR6 memory for 16GB RAM with 256bits bus already exists... it is even in mass production (K4ZAF325BM-HC14 model).

Go to Product Selector here: https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/dram/gddr6/ (find Mass Production).

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

That is not how it works.

For a 256bits you need multiple of 8 modules of memory.

For PS4 you have only 512MB (4Gb) modules in the market so 512MB x 8 = 4GB but Sony bet the 1GB (8Gb) modules will be released before the PS4 launch so they could get 1GB x 8 = 8GB.

Actually we already have 2GB (16Gb) GDDR6 modules in the market: K4ZAF325BM-HC14 e K4ZAF325BM-HC16.

So 2GB x 8 = 16GB.

GDDR6 memory for 16GB RAM with 256bits bus already exists.

Actually the OG PS4 had 16 chips in clamshell mode until the CUH-1200 model.

 

[onQ123]

No, it isn't. The software can't create a game. It can only fill the gaps based on existent data. It won't replace artists.

Where did I say all that?

 

[mckmas8808]

in terms of inflations i dont see 499 being that much for the anaconda. u always have the lockhart for 250

What is Lockhart again?

 

[TeamGhobad]

What is Lockhart again?

4+ tf machine for 1080p tvs

 

[SonGoku]

u always have the lockhart for 250

Let them play the 360!

 

[ethomaz]

Actually the OG PS4 had 16 chips in clamshell mode until the CUH-1200 model.

You are right... that means even with 1GB (8Gb) GDDR6 is possible to archive 16GB.

Both 1GB (8Gb) and 2GB (16Gb) GDDR6 are in mass production.

 

[SonGoku]

1GB (8Gb) GDDR6 is possible to archive 16GB.

16GB is too low, only 32GB will make clamshell worthy

 

[mckmas8808]

4+ tf machine for 1080p tvs

Oh okay. That's a totally different console than this next-gen Xbox console though.

 

[ethomaz]

16GB is too low, only 32GB will make clamshell worthy

32GB is basically overkill to the point it won't be used even in 8k resolution.

And you will double the memory cost.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Let them play the 360!

Shut up Don

 

[SonGoku]

32GB is basically overkill to the point it won't be used even in 8k resolution.

And you will double the memory cost.

Overkill for current gen games... games designed around it will take advantage of it
16GB is barely a jump over current gen, the X already has 12GB

 

[dottme]

Is NVMe SSD different from the Samsung SSD in my PC?

Aren’t SSDs still not cheap, even if they are more affordable than ever?

Depends which SSD.
Fix you want some reading:
https://www.samsung.com/semiconduct...s-which-interface-is-right-for-your-business/

 

[ethomaz]

Overkill for current gen games... games designed around it will take advantage of it
16GB is barely a jump over current gen, the X already has 12GB

12GB is a mid-gen refresh it didn't count by a jump over generation.

We will go from 8GB to 16GB from this gen to next gen.

The fact the actual high-end GPUs didn't moved more than that shows that the increase in RAM slowed a lot this gen compared with previous.
Just try to make a comparison with PS4/XB1 8GB in 2013 with GTX and Radeon cards... and look at GTX and Radeon cards today (the exception is Radeon VII that is clearly a move not aimed for gaming).

 

[SonGoku]

Just try to make a comparison with PS4/XB1 8GB in 2013 with GTX and Radeon cards... and look at GTX and Radeon cards today

Ok lol high end GPUs had 2 and 3GB back then
Im thinking 24GB is the more likely outcome, 16gb is as likely as 32gb.

12GB is a mid-gen refresh it didn't count by a jump over generation.

It counts because its the minimum spec to run current gen games at "4k"
Next gen will push 4k (not 1080p) so a leap over the X is mandatory for next gen graphics

 

[CrustyBritches]

Weak! The PS5 is getting a 6TB SSD, so Next Xbox needs at least a 4TB NVMe!

 

[mckmas8808]

Overkill for current gen games... games designed around it will take advantage of it
16GB is barely a jump over current gen, the X already has 12GB

The X has no games designed for 12 GBs of RAM.

 

[ethomaz]

Ok lol high end GPUs had 2 and 3GB back then
Im thinking 24GB is the more likely outcome, 16gb is as likely as 32gb.

It counts because its the minimum spec to run current gen games at "4k"
Next gen will push 4k (not 1080p) so a leap over the X is mandatory for next gen graphics

2013?

GTX 780 3/6GB
GTX 780TI 3/6GB
GTX TITAN 6GB
Radeon R9 290 4GB
Radeon R9 290X 4/8GB

Actual?

RTX 2080 8GB
RTX 2080TI 11GB
RX Vega 56 8GB
RX Vega 64 8GB
Radeon VII 16GB

I don't know but it didn't look like it more than double the VRAM.
VRAM usage decreased compared with previous gens.

You are probably expecting a jump in RAM that the industry is not supporting anymore.

I will be happy with 20GB or 24GB but I think 16GB is the spot both companies will go.

 

[jonnyp]

Seriously hope neither MS or Sony waste die space on RT. Also that storage wont happen

 

[ethomaz]

Seriously hope neither MS or Sony waste die space on RT. Also that storage wont happen

Ray-tracking is the way to increase graphic quality from now.
The consoles will live for more 6-7 years so they should have ray-tracing features at least for some effects like RTX cards.

 

[Jigsaah]

"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. "


Example: Teach Xbox how to create textures , objects & so on & the games will become a lot smaller.

Be honest, you were waiting for a perfect opportunity to use that saying.

 

[nowhat]

The X has no games designed for 12 GBs of RAM.

Don't be disingenuous, there are texture packs for some games that make use of more available memory. Are they very common, no, but they do exist. There's Shadow of War at least, and then Forza 7. Some others too probably - they are not common, but they are there.

 

[Gavon West]

Next Xbox (Anaconda) will have Ray tracing and will be for $500.

 

[nowhat]

Next Xbox will have Ray tracing.

...and this is based on - what? Other than will.

 

[mckmas8808]

Don't be disingenuous, there are texture packs for some games that make use of more available memory. Are they very common, no, but they do exist. There's Shadow of War at least, and then Forza 7. Some others too probably - they are not common, but they are there.

That's some afterthought stuff. I'm talking about being "designed" from the ground up with 12 GBs in mind.

 

[ethomaz]

Don't be disingenuous, there are texture packs for some games that make use of more available memory. Are they very common, no, but they do exist. There's Shadow of War at least, and then Forza 7. Some others too probably - they are not common, but they are there.

I think design taking advantage of 12GB (actually 9GB RAM because 3GB is OS?) is different from putting a patch with 4K textures.

All X games are still designed for XB1 in mind and it won't even take fully advantage of X hardware.

That is exactly why we need a new gen.

 

[Winter's End]

Sony did surprise most people by using DDR5 in PS4 so this part could go either way

The PS4 uses GDDR5 not DDR5 there is a pretty big difference between GDDR and DDR Ram.

 

[dolabla]

Will be awesome if true. Just give me a freaking beast with backwards compatibility. I almost skipped out on Xbox this gen but then the X came along (and they straightened up with Phil leading the charge).

 

[ZywyPL]

All I ever want graphically from games are just three basic things - native resolution, sharp textures, 60FPS - is it really THAT much to ask for? Because somehow the consoles always heavily underperform on at least one of the aspects, if not all. I just pray that Sony and MS will release the premium models from the get-go, so they will be able to get the job done from day one, instead of needing to wait few years into the generation again.

 

[12Dannu123]

Which mistake would that be? At $599 PS3 was still making a net loss (initially) with every console sold. It almost bankrupted the company. Now, MS (the whole company) sure has cash to burn. But the shareholders wouldn't be too happy if the gaming division started bleeding money like there's no tomorrow.

I really don't understand why people think Microsoft's shareholders won't be happy about the gaming division loosing money. Investors are supposed to take risk, if it is short term pain but long term gain, then shareholders and Microsoft will gladly burn money to gain a foothold. Surface lost hundreds of millions and Bing lost over 2 billion for the first few years, however at the end, they made a profit and are doing completely fine.

This chart shows how much Microsoft lost with the Bing division.

Sony shareholders are probably a different story since Sony themselves are a very conservative company and don't often take a lot of risk or have much innovation.

 

[Elios83]

These are just rumors obviously but I think it's absurd to have an SSD and then just 16GB of RAM.
PS4 and Xbox One in 2013 had 8GB. Xbox One X has already 12GB.
It would be incredibly disappoiting to have just a 2X increase in RAM compared to 2013 consoles.
In the past the jump used to be 8X if not more.
Things obviously have changed, some things have slowed down a lot but I think the minimum for a next gen console is 24GB, 16GB all for the games and 8GB for the OS, apps and background functions.

The rest of the rumors are pretty likely.
Both PS5 and the next Xbox will be based around a 8-core Zen CPU and a Navi based GPU and obviously AMD is working on some form of ray tracing acceleration as well.
I expect the systems to be really similar, price will dictate hardware differences.

I really don't understand why people think Microsoft's shareholders won't be happy about the gaming division loosing money. Investors are supposed to take risk, if it is short term pain but long term gain, then shareholders and Microsoft will gladly burn money to gain a foothold. Surface lost hundreds of millions and Bing lost over 2 billion for the first few years, however at the end, they made a profit and are doing completely fine.

Sony shareholders are probably a different story since Sony themselves are a very conservative company and don't often take a lot of risk or have much innovation.

LOL indeed it was Microsoft that invested as a pioneer in well proven things like game streaming and VR...
And that mentality that Microsoft can do whatever they want because they have money surely has given lots of fruits in the past 10 years...

 

[onQ123]

Be honest, you were waiting for a perfect opportunity to use that saying.

Nope it just came to me at the moment.



Like if the Xbox know what skin look like why should the artist texture the full body when Xbox can just fill in the blank?

 

[Redneckerz]

...and this is based on - what? Other than will.

I mean you can easily claim that both consoles will support it if they are going to support the DXR API. Would be the most cost effective way aswell since the Fallback Layer is DirectCompute based. You can then do raytracing using the GCN shader cores. That will likely have to be a derivative of the Microsoft code however as they are considering to stop developing this emulation layer.

More info: https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectX-Graphics-Samples/tree/master/Libraries/D3D12RaytracingFallback

 

[ResilientBanana]

Those look like Devkit specs. I really think it will be 12GB GDDR6 and a 1TB or 2TB 7200RPM drive. I'd be surprised if they even touch Hybrids or SSD's as they are half or a quarter of the price of what the console should cost.

 

[CrustyBritches]

I will be happy with 20GB or 24GB but I think 16GB is the spot both companies will go.

Agreed. Perhaps with a little bit of DDR3 or DDR4 on the side like PS4 Pro has?

With 16GB GDDR6 it would break down into 4GB OS, 4GB System, 8GB VRAM. This is perfect for the level of power I'd expect from AMD's upcoming mid-range GPU.

 

[nowhat]

I mean you can easily claim that both consoles will support it if they are going to support the DXR API.

Why would a Sony console support the DXR API? PS4 doesn't support DirectX or OpenGL. There's GNMX which is akin to DX11/OpenGL and GNM which gives almost full control of the GPU (but when it comes to the latter, "with great power" and all that).

 

[Redneckerz]

Why would a Sony console support the DXR API? PS4 doesn't support DirectX or OpenGL. There's GNMX which is akin to DX11/OpenGL and GNM which gives almost full control of the GPU (but when it comes to the latter, "with great power" and all that).

The code is open to everyone, so it wouldn't be too difficult to reimplement it.

Or you could just use a custom API based off of Radeon Rays if AMD is going to provide the SoC's.

 

[12Dannu123]

These are just rumors obviously but I think it's absurd to have an SSD and then just 16GB of RAM.
PS4 and Xbox One in 2013 had 8GB. Xbox One X has already 12GB.
It would be incredibly disappoiting to have just a 2X increase in RAM compared to 2013 consoles.
In the past the jump used to be 8X if not more.
Things obviously have changed, some things have slowed down a lot but I think the minimum for a next gen console is 24GB, 16GB all for the games and 8GB for the OS, apps and background functions.

The rest of the rumors are pretty likely.
Both PS5 and the next Xbox will be based around a 8-core Zen CPU and a Navi based GPU and obviously AMD is working on some form of ray tracing acceleration as well.
I expect the systems to be really similar, price will dictate hardware differences.



LOL indeed it was Microsoft that invested as a pioneer in well proven things like game streaming and VR...
And that mentality that Microsoft can do whatever they want because they have money surely has given lots of fruits in the past 10 years...

VR and Cloud Gaming is NOT well proven. Sony may be the one making the most money, but the overall product has been stagnant for years. If Microsoft sees potential in dominating the Cloud gaming market, leveraging Xbox hardware in the cloud , then they and investors will let them do it. Microsoft has actually willing to buy EA to gain a foothold, that shows how serious they are about XCloud/Game Pass.

Regarding your other post, you're failing to take into account that Next Gen Xbox consoles has 2 SKUs. PS5 and Lockhart may be similar in specs, but Anaconda may be completely different.

 

[hybrid_birth]

I'm getting the next gen xbox that comes with keys to a Lamborghini in the box. All for $499.

 

[FearlessBelgian]

Storage: 1TB NVMe SSD @ 1+GB/s

Impossible... Cost too much... (250+$ just for that today...)

Or the console will be sale at more than 500$...

 

[Elios83]

VR and Cloud Gaming is NOT well proven. Sony may be the one making the most money, but the overall product has been stagnant for years. If Microsoft sees potential in dominating the Cloud gaming market, leveraging Xbox hardware in the cloud , then they and investors will let them do it. Microsoft has actually willing to buy EA to gain a foothold, that shows how serious they are about XCloud/Game Pass.

Regarding your other post, you're failing to take into account that Next Gen Xbox consoles has 2 SKUs. PS5 and Lockhart may be similar in specs, but Anaconda may be completely different.

It was ironic. Your claim that Sony is a conservative company that doesn't like to risk in innovations is absurd.
Sony invested in a lot of innovations and believed in unproven technlogies like game streaming in 2013 when they invested in Gaikai and VR while Microsoft was still thinking about why Kinect failed. And while Microsoft was talking they were the first to introduce on the market the mid gen upgrade console concept.

The rest of your post is honestly just the usual mantra from Microsoft supporters...."they have the money they can do whatever they want".
It has been proven countless times to be false because in the end it's the market that decides what's cool and what's not and competitors can simply come up with things that people like more regardless of their money. You posted a graph showing how much money Microsoft poured into Bing. It might prove their dedication but did it turn it into a success? No.
Also I'm well aware that Microsoft is targeting multiple SKUs, what I'm not sure of is what you're expecting. If you believe that Microsoft can make a console that is much more powerful than PS5 at around the same price and releasing at the same time you're in for a huge disappointment.
If you're suggesting that Microsoft is simply willing to make a monster at 600$ just for the sake of having a power monster that's ok and it's possible...but what's the purpose? It would be a really niche thing, at that point just build a PC.

 

[Snake29]

VR and Cloud Gaming is NOT well proven. Sony may be the one making the most money, but the overall product has been stagnant for years. If Microsoft sees potential in dominating the Cloud gaming market, leveraging Xbox hardware in the cloud , then they and investors will let them do it. Microsoft has actually willing to buy EA to gain a foothold, that shows how serious they are about XCloud/Game Pass.

Regarding your other post, you're failing to take into account that Next Gen Xbox consoles has 2 SKUs. PS5 and Lockhart may be similar in specs, but Anaconda may be completely different.

Ooh look 12Dannu123 again with his bullcrap.

VR and Cloud Gaming is NOT well proven. Sony may be the one making the most money, but the overall product has been stagnant for years. If Microsoft sees potential in dominating the Cloud gaming market, leveraging Xbox hardware in the cloud , then they and investors will let them do it. Microsoft has actually willing to buy EA to gain a foothold, that shows how serious they are about XCloud/Game Pass.

So in other words, buying EA is innovation?

Microsoft had the money with the Xbox One, Microsoft had the money with the 360, Microsoft had the money with the original Xbox, yet they always fuckup things in every generation and both 360 and Xbox one are the biggest ones.

""red ring of death""

 

[JLB]

only 16gb ram??

GDDR6 RAM.

In any case, this looks literally impossible to offer below usd400, which probably is the target price.

 

[Sparda]

Microsoft has just ditched cortana. Another waste of money by them, after bing and w10 mobile. But hey, they will dominate console war, they have moneyyyy 1!!!!11

 

[TeamGhobad]

GDDR6 RAM.

In any case, this looks literally impossible to offer below usd400, which probably is the target price.

from the "leaks" lockhart model is 250-299 and anaconda is 499

 

[Insane Metal]

1TB nvme SSD. Yeah sure lol.

 

[Jigsaah]

Agreed. Perhaps with a little bit of DDR3 or DDR4 on the side like PS4 Pro has?

With 16GB GDDR6 it would break down into 4GB OS, 4GB System, 8GB VRAM. This is perfect for the level of power I'd expect from AMD's upcoming mid-range GPU.

I don't see anything wrong with 16GB in a console. Most games right now don't utilize that on PC. Add in that it will be faster and better RAM...I mean what's to complain about really. I agree with you.

 

[demigod]

Faker than fake. This was from reddit and I think the post was deleted. No credibility, he mentions the PS5 was $399 with 8+TFlops(lol, he could've put 4+TFlops and he'd still be right).

Edit: ps5 not ps4.