• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[Rumor] Ubisoft is removing games from UPlay bought from unauthorized retailers

S

Schreckstoff

Banned
Tunesmith said:
1) Buy game on a store front that issues keys, with a stolen credit card/stolen account.
2) Sell game key on marketplace like G2A to an unsuspecting buyer.
3) Profit.



The original sale was most likely conducted with a stolen credit card so Ubisoft received no money (as the card holder would naturally receive that money back via a charge back or pro-active refund from Ubi).
Click to expand...

And that's why Ubisoft is in the right but I disagree on the notion that G2A is illegitimate.

For one G2A isn't even a reseller. At least of the 20+ games I bought there , of which not one has been revoked and none were activated through VPN, 0 were bought directly from G2A and I've never even seen the option of buying directly from G2A.

I know, I know anecdotal evidence and all.
 
K

kamspy

Member
If these sites are just marketplaces for independent sellers, some of whom are proven criminals, some of whom obviously are not, then why doesn't ebay get the same ban from neogaf? Seriously.
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
Schreckstoff said:
And that's why Ubisoft is in the right but I disagree on the notion that G2A is illegitimate.

For one G2A isn't even a reseller. At least of the 20+ games I bought there , of which not one has been revoked and none were activated through VPN, 0 were bought directly from G2A and I've never even seen the option of buying directly from G2A.

I know, I know anecdotal evidence and all.
Click to expand...

G2A is one of countless grey markets, they facilitate the sale of keys that originate from numerous places, be it physical boxes or other digital marketplaces. The fact that you personally haven't had any issues is moot in the grand scheme of things, but you're aware of that as you say your point of view is anecdotal.

There's never going to be a merchant that's 100% efficient in revoking their stolen merchandise nor would that necessarily always happen in a timely manner so there would be cases where you had in fact bought a stolen key unknowingly but you as a buyer would see no repercussion from it.

kamspy said:
If these sites are just marketplaces for independent sellers, some of whom are proven criminals, some of whom obviously are not, then why doesn't ebay get the same ban from neogaf? Seriously.
Click to expand...

Ebay may be more vigilant in combating grey market sales of stolen goods, they're not a company hosted overseas in Asia after all.
 
C

Costia

Member
kamspy said:
If these sites are just marketplaces for independent sellers, some of whom are proven criminals, some of whom obviously are not, then why doesn't ebay get the same ban from neogaf? Seriously.
Click to expand...

Because ebay puts a lot of effort into removing fraudulent listings.
G2A doesn't care as long as they get a cut.
 
B

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
If the keys are stolen/used a stolen credit card to buy them then absolutely I completely understand revoking the keys even if I think they should go after the company and not the individual. However I strongly disagree if someone's just bought a load of cheap physical games from a distributor (via their own money etc) and are selling the keys. It's a grey area of course, but it's not illegal and I have no problems with it. I can understand GAF and the mods wanting to cut down on those links though.
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
Big_Al said:
If the keys are stolen/used a stolen credit card to buy them then absolutely I completely understand revoking the keys even if I think they should go after the company and not the individual. However I strongly disagree if someone's just bought a load of cheap physical games from a distributor and are selling the keys. It's a grey area of course, but it's not illegal.
Click to expand...

I would be very surprised if the revoked keys are anything other than stolen digital keys bought from a 3rd party retailer like Amazon, Steam or Origin.
 
B

Bogey

Banned
wumster3000 said:
I'm under the assumption that ToS is a legally binding contract between the provider and the user. I understand that ToS length is a major turnoff for consumers to read through, but does that negate the contractual obligation when we select "I agree"?
Click to expand...

At least in my country, it somewhat does. Law states that all paragraphs that are "surprising" or that the customer "wouldn't have to expect to be in there" are void. So virtually everything putting the customer at an unusual disadvantage is invalid, and there've already been plenty of discussions by experts including some court rulings underlining this. It basically means that publishers can't put any significant restrictions in the ToS (well, they can put them in there, but they're not legally binding in any way then).

The whole thing of "no unexpected restrictions allowed" is, as mentioned, of course exacerbated by trying to enfore a contract after a product has been bought isn't exactly allowed either, or at least will give the customer a right to get a full unconditional refund if he doesn't agree to them. But even if he does agree, they're limited by what I said in the first paragraph.

Will be different in other countries of course, but I'd assume consumer protection laws will lead to similar results in many other countries too.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
jimi_dini said:
It doesn't matter if it's Uplay, Steam, PSN or some other service. They could do those security measures, if they wanted to. But it seems they don't want to.

I already asked - what does this Ubisoft authorization even mean then? Do they select sellers randomly? Because if they don't, they can of course check the sellers security measures and if it's not good enough, simply reject them. And if the seller fucks up that badly (like in the case here), then simply ban that seller and also sue the seller for the amount of money, that they didn't get.

Why do they have to sell codes anyway? Why can't they simply implement an API for those authorized sellers, so that they can directly give a certain Uplay account access to a game? This would also solve the whole issue for the customer. And then check addresses and so on before doing so. Noone else would be able to sell their games. It's even their own service for christ's sake. It's fully under their own control.

But well, I guess the same Ubisoft experts that developed their latest games also developed their Uplay service.

Amazon for example has quite a few security measures in place. I'm unable to change the shipping address of an order without reentering my creditcard number. And I'm also unable to even select another shipping address without reentering it either.
Click to expand...
You seem to believe there's some kind of magic anti-chargeback prevention somewhere. Newsflash: It isn't. Using a API to redeem the games directly to one's account? Sure, if you don't mind losing sales from anyone who would want to buy the game as a gift for someone else. That hardly sounds like a good business decision. And hell, steam had a API to do exactly that and guess what? They ended removing it.
Tunesmith said:
EA actually does this with Amazon, you don't get codes issued there for Origin games, they're directly entitled to your Origin account. I have no idea if Ubisoft does the same on some titles or not though.
Click to expand...
When did this start to happen? I got Battlefield 4, Fifa 15, Syndicate, The Saboteur all from Amazon. Every single one was a key to redeem on Origin.
 
Caffeine

Caffeine

Member
my friend and I have contacted g2a we are waiting for a response of a refund. If they deny us we will force it through paypal.
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
BernardoOne said:
You seem to believe there's some kind of magic anti-chargeback prevention somewhere. Newsflash: It isn't. Using a API to redeem the games directly to one's account? Sure, if you don't mind losing sales from anyone who would want to buy the game as a gift for someone else. That hardly sounds like a good business decision. And hell, steam had a API to do exactly that and guess what? They ended removing it.

When did this start to happen? I got Battlefield 4, Fifa 15, Syndicate, The Saboteur all from Amazon. Every single one was a key to redeem on Origin.
Click to expand...

Instant Access.

Titanfall for example is one that attaches itself directly to your account. You always get the key of course as well but it's bound at purchase.
 
iNvid02

iNvid02

Member
gotta admit G2A and kinguin affiliating with streamers and just plastering themselves all over twitch was a genius move, makes them seem 100% legit alongside other hardware sponsors like kingston and razer
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Big_Al said:
If the keys are stolen/used a stolen credit card to buy them then absolutely I completely understand revoking the keys even if I think they should go after the company and not the individual. However I strongly disagree if someone's just bought a load of cheap physical games from a distributor and are selling the keys. It's a grey area of course, but it's not illegal.
Click to expand...
This will come back on these key sellers if more publishers do the same thing. They will continue to sell these keys and then people are going to start getting pissed when these keys don't work. Or will complain if they see a game they got previously was taken away. And if they do stop selling them, then they're losing business.

So it does affect them. I'm not sure if Ubisoft have any legal ground to go after these resellers, but they can certainly pull the rug from underneath them.
 
Z

Zatoth

Member
Did Ubisoft give the affected users a message why they removed the game(s) or did they just remove it without any notification?

Imho the best move would have been to tell the users why the game was removed and warn them from using unauthorised sellers in the future.

They could have even given them a coupon worth ~5$ redeemable at their own store as a form of compensation.
 
S

Schreckstoff

Banned
Tunesmith said:
G2A is one of countless grey markets, they facilitate the sale of keys that originate from numerous places, be it physical boxes or other digital marketplaces. The fact that you personally haven't had any issues is moot in the grand scheme of things, but you're aware of that as you say your point of view is anecdotal.

There's never going to be a merchant that's 100% efficient in revoking their stolen merchandise nor would that necessarily always happen in a timely manner so there would be cases where you had in fact bought a stolen key unknowingly but you as a buyer would see no repercussion from it.



Ebay may be more vigilant in combating grey market sales of stolen goods, they're not a company hosted overseas in Asia after all.
Click to expand...

That's true. Though from personal experience eBay are pretty powerless themselves.

Since they're just the intermediary and do not even get to handle the merchandise at any time.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
Costia said:
It's one of the avaliable editions. i think it is called "instant access". Been there for a while.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FYX1ESK/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Click to expand...

Tunesmith said:
Instant Access.

Titanfall for example is one that attaches itself directly to your account. You always get the key of course as well but it's bound at purchase.
Click to expand...
Seems that's entirely optional though, you can still buy just a key if you so desire, so it doesn't prevent someone buying in bulk and charging back

FyreWulff said:
Valve already does this
Click to expand...

Ban people for buying keys? No they don't. Hell, they don't even ban at all anymore even.
 
P

pahamrick

Member
traube said:
Did Ubisoft give the affected users a message why they removed the game(s) or did they just remove it without any notification?

Imho the best move would have been to tell the users why the game was removed and warn them from using unauthorised sellers in the future.

They could have given them a coupon worth ~5$ redeemable at their own store as compensation.
Click to expand...

There was no notification or email for me. I logged into uplay to play Black Flag, it wasn't listed in my account any longer. I tried using the key I had, and I got the "This key has been banned, contact ubisoft support."

Saw the bit about ubisoft removing games from accounts and immediately sent a text to my friend asking where he bought the keys from.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
iNvid02 said:
gotta admit G2A and kinguin affiliating with streamers and just plastering themselves all over twitch was a genius move, makes them seem 100% legit alongside other hardware sponsors like kingston and razer
Click to expand...

That's what i said earlier in the thread like Levelcap not knowing that G2A is not a legit retailer website unlike GMG i am stunned and baffled by it since they only see the money.
 
N

Nightbird

Member
So G2a is not good place for Key-Deals right?

oopsz7lsp.png


Someone fucked up.

As for me, i never knew that those kinds of shady things are going on with those kind of Sites. I bought only once on such a Site (forgot the Name), so even that Game (Mirrors Edge) would be deleted from my Account, i would buy it again properly, it's worth it.
 
The Cowboy

The Cowboy

Member
BernardoOne said:
Ban people for buying keys? No they don't. Hell, they don't even ban at all anymore even.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the persons point, he's pointing out that Valve/Steam already removes/revokes/bans games that are activated via stolen keys - that's what the person he/she quoted was referencing. The person you quoted isn't responding to the 2nd part which is an opinion that sites should also ban people for using stolen keys, s/he's responding to the 1st part in that Valve/Steam should also revoke/remove/ban stolen games that are activated by dodgy keys (which they already do).
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
Places like CDkeys.com are legit in the sense most people won't have an issue. But they're still obtaining their products in questionable ways so if you do not want any risk you should avoid them.
 
AHA-Lambda

AHA-Lambda

Member
Chanser said:
cdkeys.com legit?
Click to expand...

No, this is mentioned constantly yet people keep pushing it in the Cheap Arse Gaffer thread. Don't be shocked when the same happens to the cheap XB1 games they've been selling lately.

I think a mod needs to put out another PSA thread about this cos people obviously don't know.
 
N

nibblemonkey

Neo Member
Corpekata said:
Places like CDkeys.com are legit in the sense most people won't have an issue. But they're still obtaining their products in questionable ways so if you do not want any risk you should avoid them.
Click to expand...

I think CDKeys gets their's by buying a lot of physical copies, scanning in the keys and then giving people them when they buy a game
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
AHA-Lambda said:
No, this is mentioned constantly yet people keep pushing it in the Cheap Arse Gaffer thread. Don't be shocked when the same happens to the cheap XB1 games they've been selling lately.

I think a mod needs to put out another PSA thread about this cos people obviously don't know.
Click to expand...
The cheap XB1 games are obtained from the XB1 console bundles so I don't think they will ever be revoked. Though of course I advise to not buy from them as a basic principle.
 
S

Schreckstoff

Banned
Nokterian said:
Yup a lot of streamers and youtubers fell for it well they saw dollar signs in there eyes instead using there brain and supporting a website with that sells illegal keys.
Click to expand...

Technically it provides a platform where among other things illegitimate keys are being sold, one could fault them for not trying enough to ensure legitimacy but I doubt that Ubisoft would let the opportunity to sue for damages pass by if it were indeed an illegitimate site.


I guess this is irony

z67ZHU9.png
 
M

Mr Swine

Banned
Sorry if this doesn't have anything to do with this unauthorized sellers, but I just bought a EVGA GTX 970 with the Pick Your Path. Does it still work even if I get the code for the Geforce site?
 
K

KingFire

Banned
JNA said:
This guy gets it.

if you guys don't get it now: you buy digital, than you don't own it. Simple as that.

Which is why if or when games stop going physical, I will quit gaming for good most likely.
Click to expand...

You do not own it even if you buy physical. You are given a license, not an ownership.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
Mr Swine said:
Sorry if this doesn't have anything to do with this unauthorized sellers, but I just bought a EVGA GTX 970 with the Pick Your Path. Does it still work even if I get the code for the Geforce site?
Click to expand...

It's nvidia only and yes it works said it again earlier in this thread Nvidia vouchers are different because you need to login to your steam account to redeem the key after that it is attached to it you will not get a steam key.
 
AHA-Lambda

AHA-Lambda

Member
Corpekata said:
Places like CDkeys.com are legit in the sense most people won't have an issue. But they're still obtaining their products in questionable ways so if you do not want any risk you should avoid them.
Click to expand...

They are not, I remember a guy in the steam thread got his Dark Souls 2 key revoked shortly after it came out.
 
P

Polk

Member
Seanspeed said:
This will come back on these key sellers if more publishers do the same thing. They will continue to sell these keys and then people are going to start getting pissed when these keys don't work. Or will complain if they see a game they got previously was taken away. And if they do stop selling them, then they're losing business.

So it does affect them. I'm not sure if Ubisoft have any legal ground to go after these resellers, but they can certainly pull the rug from underneath them.
Click to expand...
I really hope Ubi will inform users why their keys were revoked. That would help a lot with backlash against shady sites like G2A.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

[Insider Gaming] Inside Ubisoft – From Low Morale To Internal Tensions
Game Dev
26
2K
BacklashWave534 replied
IGN: Ubisoft Montreal is currently in Turmoil
Game Dev 2 3 4 5 6
290
19K
Reaseru replied
Ubisoft removing access from older games DLC on PC, Decommissioning of online services September 2022
News Drama 2
61
5K
IAmNotFromDelaware replied
Chinese government working on regulations to curb excessive spending on gaming.
News
35
3K
Bkdk replied
[Game File] Some of the world's biggest gaming storefronts still don't credit who made the game
Business Analysis
27
1K
GHG replied
Top Bottom