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[EatChildren]

Heh.

Sounds like Loop and WiiU are gonna be port buddies.

Now to see Sony's move. Are they going to be odd manufacturer out this gen?

The Wii U is going to be one Wii with a GameCube duck taped to one side, and a N64 expansion pack duck taped to the other.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

It didn't worked too well, simply because if we look at things, the diference between the ps3 and xbox the isn't that big (if there's any). Multiplat games look the same and most of the time even perform better on the XBox. But 2gb vs 4 gb might make a huge diference that could justify the price increase.

Also, MS almost went with 256Mb RAM for the 360 as opposed to 512Mb. (Cliffy claims Epic convinced them to bump it up.) Could you imagine how things would have panned out in that case?

 

[Marco1]

It didn't worked too well, simply because if we look at things, the diference between the ps3 and xbox the isn't that big (if there's any). Multiplat games look the same and most of the time even perform better on the XBox. But 2gb vs 4 gb might make a huge diference that could justify the price increase.

Exactly if xbox loop and PS4 are very similar apart from PS4 having an extra 2GB Ram and costing £50 extra, that £50 extra will go a long way when comparing multi-plat games and exclusives.
If this happens, I can really see sony claiming back the console crown and marketplace.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Is it possible they need the hex-core CPU due to Kinect implementation?




GPU, GPU, and GPU. This is the big question mark.

Yes yes.

Honestly, we don't know too much about the WiiU either to be making blanket statements. But we can almost guarantee they've already got it set in stone what part they will be using a derivative of. I doubt it will be a Samaritan level part, especially now that we're getting an idea of what kind of RAM the system has. And it doesn't seem like it will be that much more than the WiiU. We do know Nintendo is using a GPU based off 2009 tech though.

Errr. I think we do.

Next gen is going to be interesting.

 

[Medalion]

The Wii U is going to be one Wii with a GameCube duck taped to one side, and a N64 expansion pack duck taped to the other.

1 Wii + Game Boy first gen superglued to the bottom

 

[gofreak]

Heh.

Sounds like Loop and WiiU are gonna be port buddies.

Now to see Sony's move. Are they going to be odd manufacturer out this gen?

We'll see, but if this is true, I do hope Sony pushes out to 2013 and goes balls to the wall.

Yes, they'd be an outlier, devs would have to account for the other two etc. But at least they'd be pretty much guaranteed the best versions of multiplats, and more importantly, they have their own stable of devs to really exploit their system. They don't really need other devs to do that for them.

That would be perhaps a more interesting mix than 3 carbon copies.

I think, though, the story of this coming gen and the upgrade over this gen won't be about power - perhaps outside of Sony's story and that of its top devs, depending on what Sony does. The really significant changes will probably be elsewhere, the differentiation between the three will be elsewhere. We might not get two exact twins as we almost pretty much had with PS3 and 360.

 

[Windom Earle]

Time for Sony to go for 4GB.

 

[wsippel]

The Wii U is going to be one Wii with a GameCube duck taped to one side, and a N64 expansion pack duck taped to the other.

And it sounds like the next Xbox will just be two of those things duck taped together.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Maybe that's just system memory, and they've got 512MB+ of GDDR5 graphics memory on a 256+ bit bus as well.

HRMMMMMM

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Hex Core is much more than I expected. 2GB is much less however (and DDR3. Really?! That's pretty crappy if true)

 

[[Nintex]]

Yes yes.

Honestly, we don't know too much about the WiiU either to be making blanket statements. But we can almost guarantee they've already got it set in stone what part they will be using a derivative of. I doubt it will be a Samaritan level part, especially now that we're getting an idea of what kind of RAM the system has. And it doesn't seem like it will be that much more than the WiiU. We do know Nintendo is using a GPU based off 2009 tech though.

Errr. I think we do.

Next gen is going to be interesting.

AMD is moving to 28nm GPU's spring 2012 after many delays so that is my guess for what the Xbox Ten is based on.

 

[Erethian]

We'll see, but if this is true, I do hope Sony pushes out to 2013 and goes balls to the wall.

Yes, they'd be an outlier, devs would have to account for the other two etc. But at least they'd be pretty much guaranteed the best versions of multiplats, and more importantly, they have their own stable of devs to really exploit their system. They don't really need other devs to do that for them.

That would be perhaps a more interesting mix than 3 carbon copies.

I think, though, the story of this coming gen and the upgrade over this gen won't be about power - perhaps outside of Sony's story and that of its top devs, depending on what Sony does. The really significant changes will probably be elsewhere, the differentiation between the three will be elsewhere. We might not get two exact twins as we almost pretty much had with PS3 and 360.

Sony has more reason than Microsoft to go for a system that can start making back money quickly.

They certainly don't want a PS3 situation where they end the generation without recouping their initial losses.

 

[slidewinder]

HRMMMMMM

Is it a given that they're going to do eDRAM framebuffer + unified graphics/system memory otherwise again? I don't keep up with this stuff at all, but I don't think that approach has proven to be a clear winner in something with a plug and a reasonable case size.

 

[Jarmel]

We'll see, but if this is true, I do hope Sony pushes out to 2013 and goes balls to the wall.

Yes, they'd be an outlier, devs would have to account for the other two etc. But at least they'd be pretty much guaranteed the best versions of multiplats, and more importantly, they have their own stable of devs to really exploit their system. They don't really need other devs to do that for them.

Sony is not going to release in 2013 if Microsoft releases in 2012. I would bet money on that.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Maybe that's just system memory, and they've got 512MB+ of GDDR5 graphics memory on a 256+ bit bus as well.

Already discussed this in prior posts. XBOX and XBOX 360 both used unified memory architectures. The next generation successor isn't going to abandon this, and even if they did, they wouldn't use DDR3.

 

[Nemesis121]

Is Sony still working on Cell? or did that project die?

 

[Antagon]

DDR3 sounds wrong. I'd take this with a grain of salt unless any official info is out.

 

[Marco1]

AMD is moving to 28nm GPU's spring 2012 after many delays so that is my guess for what the Xbox Ten is based on.

Exactly and with an extra 1-1.5 GB vram that could be the defining factor for the console.
I imagine the 2GB Ram is really for running apps in the background without affecting gameplay or FPS.

 

[Drkirby]

2GB of DDR3 Ram? Really? Come on Microsoft, you can get 8GB right now for $50USD, that amount of Ram will really bottle neck the system, unless they have a ton of Video Ram on top of it.

 

[Majine]

About damn time next-gen consoles are being unveiled.

Spoiler

No, Wii U.

 

[Sirolf]

et notre source nous a également parlé d’un prototype de double GPU AMD.

The OP has forgotten to post the dual-GPU AMD rumor

Nous n’avons pas pu connaitre la RAM.

And it speaks clearly of another pool of RAM for the GPU

 

[Jarmel]

Is Sony still working on Cell? or did that project die?

My understanding is that's done. Cell had too many programming complications that Sony is going to revert to a more traditional processor.

 

[Chittagong]

Is Sony still working on Cell? or did that project die?

I would be *really* surprised if IBM had retained their PowerPC teams for 7 years on the back of cost reductions only. I mean, the teams that did Cell and Xenon were massive, and it's not like IBM had a whole hell of a lot CPU customers ever since.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Yes yes.

Honestly, we don't know too much about the WiiU either to be making blanket statements. But we can almost guarantee they've already got it set in stone what part they will be using a derivative of. I doubt it will be a Samaritan level part, especially now that we're getting an idea of what kind of RAM the system has. And it doesn't seem like it will be that much more than the WiiU. We do know Nintendo is using a GPU based off 2009 tech though.

Errr. I think we do.

Next gen is going to be interesting.

I won't even rely on that GPU story, everything else has been known to be conjecture for a while. All we know for sure is that it has a multi-core PowerPC-based CPU and an AMD GPU. I think even developers at E3 might not have been sure, what with the unsure/varying statements on the console's power, and with the news about new devkits being sent out over the summer.

 

[SimpleDesign]

DDR3 sounds wrong. I'd take this with a grain of salt unless any official info is out.

Yeah, if they go with only 2GB RAM it would most likely be GDDR5 or XDR2, not DDR3. I don't see Microsoft splitting the memory pools either.

But who knows this is the new Kinect era after all.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

2Gb is the bare minimum to keep a console going up to 2018.

..and that's only if the GPU has a separate 1Gb of Vram, which is, again, the bare minimum needed for 1080p visuals with some nice 4xAA.

If that 2GB is unified Ram, like the 360, then developers will already be pushing up against the limit from day one of release.

If MS want to cover all bases for the next 6yrs, then they really do need 4Gb of Unified Ram, or 3Gb of Main Ram and 1GB of Vram.

...oh, and i'm gonna call bullshit on the Dual GPU design, needless extra silicon, heat and power consumption.

There are plenty of single GPU designs out there that can be optimized for a next gen console.

 

[gofreak]

Sony has more reason than Microsoft to go for a system that can start making back money quickly.

They certainly don't want a PS3 situation where they end the generation without recouping their initial losses.

I don't mean balls-to-wall in a $1000 dollar system sense (ala PS3). I mean balls-to-the-wall more in a ~$500/2013 sense. That would make for a more interesting mix among the three than if they went for a ~$400/2012 combo (which would probably yield something very like what's rumoured here). edit - and to be clear, I'm not saying here what I THINK Sony will do, but just what I would personally prefer them to do, perhaps...

I think one thing to bear in mind about MS and its system and spec and cost, and why they might 'only' go with 2GB etc. - is that they may allocate a lot more to interface tech in their budget than they might otherwise have done. If they want to put a kinect 2.0 in every box, which may be the case, that will eat into their budget for other things. People asking 'why not more' might want to bear that in mind - assuming any of this is true.

 

[slidewinder]

Already discussed this in prior posts. XBOX and XBOX 360 both used unified memory architectures. The next generation successor isn't going to abandon this, and even if they did, they wouldn't use DDR3.

If they were going to split it up, then what would they use for system memory other than DDR3?

 

[Medalion]

Lazy developers wont make use of even half those specs

Waste of money

 

[[Nintex]]

The OP has forgotten to post the dual-GPU AMD rumor

My speculation is that they're using that to emulate what the 28nm GPU that isn't yet taped out is capable of. The Xbox 360 devkits used Radeon X800's after all and Nintendo is rumored to have been using the Radeon 4000-series for their devkits.

 

[wsippel]

Funny. Nobody had any doubts when rumors surfaced according to which the Wii U would use 1GB DDR3, and now nobody wants to believe the next Xbox would use 2GB DDR3? Newsflash: Microsoft is not hardcore anymore. They want small and cheap, they want Kinect in every home and Sesame Street games.

 

[BocoDragon]

CES? Is this 1993?

 

[slidewinder]

And there's no way anybody's putting a dual GPU in a console. What kind of sense could that possibly make unless somebody wanted to build some absurd high-end PC killer? The idea was already ridiculous when the Nintendo fans were mooting it.

 

[besiktas1]

Expected 16GB DDRmegamix. Disappointed.

 

[Jarmel]

I don't mean balls-to-wall in a $1000 dollar system sense (ala PS3). I mean balls-to-the-wall more in a ~$500/2013 sense. That would make for a more interesting mix among the three than if they went for a ~$400/2012 combo (which would probably yield something very like what's rumoured here). edit - and to be clear, I'm not saying here what I THINK Sony will do, but just what I would personally prefer them to do, perhaps...

I think one thing to bear in mind about MS and its system and spec and cost, and why they might 'only' go with 2GB etc. - is that they may allocate a lot more to interface tech in their budget than they might otherwise have done. If they want to put a kinect 2.0 in every box, which may be the case, that will eat into their budget for other things. People asking 'why not more' might want to bear that in mind - assuming any of this is true.

Kinect eats up some of that RAM too. Is the source even that reliable to do conjectures on?

 

[Nemesis121]

Expected 16GB DDRmegamix. Disappointed.

Crytek feels your pain...

 

[[Nintex]]

And there's no way anybody's putting a dual GPU in a console. What kind of sense could that possibly make unless somebody wanted to build some absurd high-end PC killer? The idea was already ridiculous when the Nintendo fans were mooting it.

Because you need something to cram in the devkits while AMD is cooking up the 28nm GPU's.

 

[Amagon]

2GB DDR3 Memory has to be a joke, lol!

Its a rumor, why should I be giving a shit, lol!

 

[Kaltagesta]

In this thread: people who know very little about the realities of building a console tell those that do why they're wrong.

 

[slidewinder]

Because you need something to cram in the devkits while AMD is cooking up the 28nm GPU's.

Oh yeah, no problem with that.

 

[liquidspeed]

I feel that 2GB for a hex-core CPU is not enough, It just feels strange.

>= 6 GB or Bust for next playstation and next xbox

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

My speculation is that they're using that to emulate what the 28nm GPU that isn't yet taped out is capable of. The Xbox 360 devkits used Radeon X800's after all and Nintendo is rumored to have been using the Radeon 4000-series for their devkits.

Would a 28nm GPU be ready by November 2012 though? (because there's no way that they'll be using a dual GPU setup in the final console. No way in hell. Needless extra heat, motherboard complexity, size increase and expense)

 

[wsippel]

Because you need something to cram in the devkits while AMD is cooking up the 28nm GPU's.

Makes no sense. Whatever ends up in the actual system won't be twice as powerful as the most powerful 40nm GPU, and heat and power consumption don't matter for devkits.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Would a 28nm GPU be ready by November 2012 though?

Well commercial 28nm GPUs are coming out the first half of 2012.

 

[gofreak]

Playing along with the rumour...why are people saying the 6-core is too much?

These likely wouldn't be like 6 i7s.

It's far more likely it would be something like a beefed up custom Xenon 2.0 core (easy BC being a nice side effect). 6 of something like that would be entirely reasonable, perhaps even cheap.

Makes no sense. Whatever ends up in the actual system won't be twice as powerful as the most powerful 40nm GPU, and heat and power consumption don't matter for devkits.

Kits at a stage like now often aren't entirely exact in terms of their relationship to final hardware. They could be emulating certain features of final hardware that might surpass current single card performance, for example, and need multiple cards to do that specific thing.

 

[Kinan]

The OP has forgotten to post the dual-GPU AMD rumor



And it speaks clearly of another pool of RAM for the GPU

well, this kills the credibility of the rumour right away. Good day, gentlemen.

 

[Red]

I seriously doubt it will use DDR 3, but what crazy people were convinced it would have more than 2gb??

 

[itsgreen]

sticks are cheap, onboard ram isnt in the same price bracket.

Well what do you think is on the sticks...? When you order a billion memory chips , you get a good price, and is just as easy as soldering them to the motherboard

You don't understand, you can think like this. "Oh it's only $15 they shouldn't cheap out."

If you tack on an extra $5 cost to each console, it adds up. The 360 has sold over 57 million systems. However prices go down, so let's just say 10 million x 5 = $50,000,000

That's an extra $50 million dollars. When Microsoft decided to include 512mb of ram into the 360 instead of 256mb, it costs them 1 billion dollars.

Sure it's a balance thing. But if they'd take that hit it will enable them to compete on a higher level, be more competitive, and have a viable console for more years. And they can just transfer the costs to the user. Make the console 10$ more expensive.

Also, RAM doesn't really get cheaper over a long period, you just get more storage for the same money. Same with HDDs.

Yeah that's not really the case for ram. Since ram in consoles is just a bunch of loose chips. Instead of using 16 chips they'd just use 8 with higher capacity in a revision. Relatively minor adjustment.

 

[derFeef]

Yeah, 6 cores do not sound that crazy to me. And it really depends on GPU and VRAM, which we have no info (rumors) really.

 

[Caramello]

I don't buy this rumour at all.. DDR3? Obviously people not sure what they're talking about.. If the system does have 2GB of a DDR*insert number* RAM then I also expect 1GB of dedicated Video RAM as well.

In my mind I sort of expect something like the following in the RAM department:

Nintendo: 1 - 1.5GB
Microsoft: 3GB
Sony: 4GB

I don't think 4GB of RAM is really $599 US DOLLARS territory at all. For Sony, the Blu Ray, card reader, large HDD and the Cell were all factors that contributed more to the cost (perhaps not all in absolute terms but certainly in payoff).

I think having a 4GB console with the trimmings we expect to come with that launching in 2013 would be quite easily offered at $399.

Microsoft on the other hand will have Kinect to consider (bundling will drive up costs), Blu Ray which they haven't had before (increased costs over a DVD drive) and potentially launch a year earlier.

Also remember that 4K resolution support may be required at some point on the life cycle of these systems. I kind of doubt they'll support it but Sony like to be able to push their other products through PlayStation. 2GB of RAM seems a bit paltry for that.