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[Dr. Buni]

"A great game still is great"

You don't say. Good games are timeless and Nocturne is not an exception.

 

[Danjin44]

It's a special game. I do think some aspects have aged a bit (the skill and fusion system in particular), but the game is just so unique, so well designed and innovative that it'll always be one I hold dearly.


Yeah, I like the idea of the 'Reasons', and much prefer it to the really simple Law/Chaos dichotomy, but there was nothing dramatic about how they were executed, no weight in the way they were portrayed. I end up caring not even one bit about any reason and just going for TDE.

I absolutely love this game. but i have to agree with u. The problem was the game never made me care for Chiaki or Isamu, so I never cared for their 'Reasons'

 

[Wood Man]

Absolutely loved this game. 100% completed it back in the day. With that said I don't know if I could do another playthrough. I don't really play a lot of hard games, but even with the guide this was one of the most challenging RPGs I ever played. This really prepped me for the Persona games that came later. It was like playing SMT on easy mode.

I still remember my final team. MC, Dante, Beelzebub (fly) & Metatron. Lucifer didn't stand a chance.

 

[Lynx_7]

Something about the prose in Nocturne is also special in a way that is extremely difficult to accurately describe. Like everything else in this game it feels elegant and detached, gods and goddesses are appropriately otherworldly without sounding like haughty stereotypes, lower demons are funny and crass in a way that's not so on-the-nose. Again it's very difficult to pinpoint but something has been lost in the writing of the newer games, even a bit as small as how angels and demons in the game actually never name anything directly as God, but instead refer obliquely to a Lord, an Absolute, or a Great Will, Nocturne just gets all the little details right.

This is something that also stood out to me back then. The game's dialogue feels very sober, almost subdued, which isn't something you can usually say for JRPGs, a genre usually concerned with being as flashy and in-your-face as possible. It's a game that likely would've been better received had it released this decade than when it did since it aligns more with the design sensibilities and preferred tone for western fans of japanese games in a post-Souls world. I believe the same holds true for Dragon Quarter in a way, which came out in the same era (well, the latter also needed to not be called BoF to avoid messing with expectations).

I also agree with your points on narrative, and I've said in the past Nocturne's narrative is much better than people usually give it credit. It's certainly light on cutscenes, but there's a lot more going on than just that.

Kaneko still worked on the series for a while after this and DDS was also directed by Hashino whilst working with Kaneko. If anything, this was Okada's farewell to a series him and Kaneko helped build up, but it was Hashino who brought his vision to fruition for this game. He helped create the Press Turn system, a mainstay for the series for a long time afterwards, dude deserves mad props for his amazing work on this game. Yamai just brought even more amazing design to this game in the form of the Fiends and the Labyrinth of Amala. Not forgetting Shogo Isogai's brilliant design and writing as well. Frankly, it was the entire design team at Atlus just firing on all cylinders with this game.

It really is a game with an ensemble production team, isn't it? Damn, I never really stopped to think about it. It had all the right people involved doing what they're best at. Kaneko's amazing aesthetics, Hashino's game design sensibilities and strong grasp of atmosphere and themes, Meguro's soundtrack, and I may be completely off on this but I get the feeling Yamai is better as a "supporting" director, iterating on stablished ideas and building off a strong foundation than he is at stablishing said foundation for himself. His contributions to Nocturne feel almost essential to the package and if the Fiend battles and Amala are anything to go by he's got a pretty good grasp on game design (as an iterative director, I have no idea wth happened with IV's balance or dungeon design).

Maybe I'll be proven wrong with SMT HD but I get the distinct feeling we're never going to see something quite as cohesive and special as Nocturne again from Atlus. It was made by the right people at the right time in Atlus' history. Okada isn't with them anymore, Hashino has moved on, Kaneko isn't coming back for whatever reason (and I don't believe he ever will), and the company at large seems to have shifted focus to more marketable products if Apocalypse and the changes made to Strange Journey are anything to go by. Even if the new game ends up being "dark", I fully expect it to be so in a more conventional way. "Look at all this death, and the evil character making evil faces!" kind of way, instead of Nocturne's colder, detached, surreal, somber approach.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Been patiently waiting for an HD rerelease for a while now. Ditch Dante if you must, Atlus, but I need to replay this game. I'll even just take a PS2 port if need be.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Been patiently waiting for an HD rerelease for a while now. Ditch Dante if you must, Atlus, but I need to replay this game. I'll even just take a PS2 port if need be.

It's not gonna happen. This is a game you keep a PS2 for.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Fantastic write up, it's always very inspiring to read someone else gushing about Nocturne. It's a such a special, one of a kind game that I find it fascinating to read about it because I always get to appreciate something new.

I'll have to boringly agree on nearly all fronts though, but I found interesting that you compare it to SMT and Persona in particular, because I always knew Nocturne reminded me of another Megaten game but never knew it was Persona! I think nowadays people are too obsessed with character interaction and intricate stories with lots of twists to really appreciate games like this and Persona, where the strength is in its scenarios and bizarre atmospheres... I've always found it silly when people do these "dark game competitions" with Megaten games, and I'll agree that more than just "dark", Nocturne is otherworldly, and has this beautiful mysticism to it that it's hard to explain, but I adore it.

I think the only thing I disagree in is the greatness of its alignment system. It's not that I dislike how it works, but I always found all the alignments themselves silly and extremely hard to sympathize with, so I always default to TDE (it also offers the most content, so it's a no brainer). HOWEVER it's been around 10 years since the last time I played this, so perhaps I'd appreciate them differently today.

Damn it, I'm far too busy with other games already, but this thread is making me want to start a new game of Nocturne right away. If only we could get a remaster with better resolution, uncompressed music AND EVERYTHING ELSE UNTOUCHED!

I think the only thing I dislike about Nocturne is that it's such a masterfully crafted game that it's incredibly unlikely we'll ever get something even remotely as good, and it's always bittersweet to see a new Megaten game announced, because while it makes me happy these games still exist, it will never be the same.

this is a really controversial opinion but I think semi-random skill inheritance is Good, Actually. Without any limits whatsoever, the newest entries really mess up the difficulty curve. Making really tough choices about what's REALLY worth keeping on your demons is fun! And for those who just can't stand to make tough decisions, you can grind by pressing X and O a lot.

I 100% agree and it's refreshing to read this from someone else lol. As a fusion maniac, I'll admit I was excited when I heard Golden was going to be the first game to allow free skill inheritance, and then made my uber demons and... It felt empty? It's so easy that it basically erases all satisfaction from the process. Making my best demons in Nocturne was far more satisfying for a reason, and it doesn't /have/ to involve countless hours of resetting that fusion screen.

 

[randomkid]

This is something that also stood out to me back then. The game's dialogue feels very sober, almost subdued, which isn't something you can usually say for JRPGs, a genre usually concerned with being as flashy and in-your-face as possible. It's a game that likely would've been better received had it released this decade than when it did since it aligns more with the design sensibilities and preferred tone for western fans of japanese games in a post-Souls world. I believe the same holds true for Dragon Quarter in a way, which came out in the same era (well, the latter also needed to not be called BoF to avoid messing with expectations).

Subdued is a great way to put it, which is funny because even when you're watching the most anodyne cutscenes, like Hijri chatting you up near a terminal or something, you still end up holding in your breath and completely absorbed by each word.

Damn it, I'm far too busy with other games already, but this thread is making me want to start a new game of Nocturne right away. If only we could get a remaster with better resolution, uncompressed music AND EVERYTHING ELSE UNTOUCHED!

Gotta find a way to try to replay it. This year has been such a cascade of great new stuff but the 80 hours I spent with Nocturne were still the most satisfying.

 

[E_Darkness]

I would buy the hell out of another release of Nocturne. This game needs to hit a modern audience, ideally with some QoL stuff that makes the already perfect game more perfect to play.

 

[jbueno]

Certainly in my top 3 favorite RPGs ever, was just playing it yesterday just fooling around in some old saves.

 

[Scarlet_Spider]

All these years later and the first thing I think of when I see Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne is "Where was Kingdom Hearts 2 during Hurricane Katrina?"

 

[saturnine]

I wish I could love this game as much as others. While I can readily recognize how peculiar and interesting it is, I have a hard time forgetting about some of its flaws, most of them stemming from how old school some of its design decisions are.

My gripes :
- MC handles awkwardly, making exploration annoying, compounded by...
- the encounter rate. While I have no issue in theory with random encounters, SMT3 can get really stupid with them.
- Menu design is pretty bad. Being unable to show an explanation of a move unless you go in the specific Skills menu is very annoying, especially when it's impossible to do so while in battle. The whole fusion menu falls under this. Talking about fusion...
- Reroll for skill inheritance is a pure time waster. If they wanted to avoid the unbalanced mess of free skill inheritance, they could have simply given a power grade to each skill and a limit to how much combined power grade you could pass on to a fusion depending on the kind of demon created.
- Keeping track of possible fusions is a mess in general, leading the player to just fuse whatever seems the strongest at the time. I don't know how you solve this one, but I'm no interface designer, it's not my job.
- The pacing. I appreciate that the game doesn't waste my time with 30 minutes monologues and shit, but some parts of the game are incredibly long with little happening to spice things up, which is exhausting. It gets worse and worse as the game goes on.
- The reasons. SMT3 has probably the best "sides" out of all the SMT stories I know of, but they still don't really work for me. The characters that represent each sides still end up making a ridiculous leap of logic somewhere along their development and proceed to lose me completely.

With that said, the game has a great soundtrack (though I don't know what's up with the battle tracks sounding like they were recorded through tin cans) and holds up really well visually. It really nails down its haunting otherworldly atmosphere and I get why people clamor for more of that after SMTIV.

 

[Modest Mauser]

I hope when SMT makes it home console return with the new Switch game it can be half as compelling and magical as Nocturne.

 

[semiconscious]

Maybe I'll be proven wrong with SMT HD but I get the distinct feeling we're never going to see something quite as cohesive and special as Nocturne again from Atlus. It was made by the right people at the right time in Atlus' history. Okada isn't with them anymore, Hashino has moved on, Kaneko isn't coming back for whatever reason (and I don't believe he ever will), and the company at large seems to have shifted focus to more marketable products if Apocalypse and the changes made to Strange Journey are anything to go by. Even if the new game ends up being "dark", I fully expect it to be so in a more conventional way. "Look at all this death, and the evil character making evil faces!" kind of way, instead of Nocturne's colder, detached, surreal, somber approach.

imo, the only 2 smt games since the ps2 period that've managed to capture some of that era's magic have been strange journey & the first devil survivor - 2 games over the last 9 years...

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

playing smt4 immediately after 3 was a huge let down. i hope the next game can bring the franchise back to nocturnes level of greatness.

 

[Narroo]

The game is undisputed in atmosphere as far as I'm concerned.

The art direction and environmental design is out of this world.

Atsmosphere... don't know; it's a bit bleak and bland for me.

Visual quality though: OH YES. If you can get this game hooked up to a high-quality CRT through composite or RGB it's amazing; it looks like an artsy low poly/color PS3 game at times.

Still, as we all know, Soul Hackers 3DS is the best Shin Megami Tensei.

 

[randomkid]

I wish I could love this game as much as others. While I can readily recognize how peculiar and interesting it is, I have a hard time forgetting about some of its flaws, most of them stemming from how old school some of its design decisions are.

My gripes :
- MC handles awkwardly, making exploration annoying, compounded by...
- the encounter rate. While I have no issue in theory with random encounters, SMT3 can get really stupid with them.
- Menu design is pretty bad. Being unable to show an explanation of a move unless you go in the specific Skills menu is very annoying, especially when it's impossible to do so while in battle. The whole fusion menu falls under this. Talking about fusion...
- Reroll for skill inheritance is a pure time waster. If they wanted to avoid the unbalanced mess of free skill inheritance, they could have simply given a power grade to each skill and a limit to how much combined power grade you could pass on to a fusion depending on the kind of demon created.
- Keeping track of possible fusions is a mess in general, leading the player to just fuse whatever seems the strongest at the time. I don't know how you solve this one, but I'm no interface designer, it's not my job.
- The pacing. I appreciate that the game doesn't waste my time with 30 minutes monologues and shit, but some parts of the game are incredibly long with little happening to spice things up, which is exhausting. It gets worse and worse as the game goes on.
- The reasons. SMT3 has probably the best "sides" out of all the SMT stories I know of, but they still don't really work for me. The characters that represent each sides still end up making a ridiculous leap of logic somewhere along their development and proceed to lose me completely.

With that said, the game has a great soundtrack (though I don't know what's up with the battle tracks sounding like they were recorded through tin cans) and holds up really well visually. It really nails down its haunting otherworldly atmosphere and I get why people clamor for more of that after SMTIV.

Some fair stuff here along with some stuff I don't really agree with at all, but regarding the bolded I will say that the game sort of already does this! Did you notice how it was nearly impossible to pass on Mana Refill, Mediarahan and Megidoloan at the same time, especially if you had any other lower skills in the mix? that's the game basically telling you that trying to get exactly everything you want over at once is an extra bonus. the feeling of getting that perfect demon every once in a while is definitely great, not gonna lie, but the moment I got bored of hitting X and O I'd just suck it up and go with a less overpowered pick. Certainly agree the game should more clearly telegraph the times a skill isn't transferring over no matter what though, no Fog Breath on Lilim is weird.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I've written on this masterpiece many a time.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189910856&postcount=167

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=173051488&postcount=23

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151658444&postcount=191

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153003326&postcount=869

And I will never tire of singing its praises.

 

[saturnine]

Some fair stuff here along with some stuff I don't really agree with at all, but regarding the bolded I will say that the game sort of already does this! Did you notice how it was nearly impossible to pass on Mana Refill, Mediarahan and Megidoloan at the same time, especially if you had any other lower skills in the mix? that's the game basically telling you that trying to get exactly everything you want over at once is an extra bonus. the feeling of getting that perfect demon every once in a while is definitely great, not gonna lie, but the moment I got bored of hitting X and O I'd just suck it up and go with a less overpowered pick. Certainly agree the game should more clearly telegraph the times a skill isn't transferring over no matter what though, no Fog Breath on Lilim is weird.

I do know that the game has rules when it comes to skills inheritance, I'd simply rather the last element not be a pointless rng minigame. That's the thing : there are balancing rules already, why not explain them to the player and let them get on with it? If the point is to have that rare case of being able to make a demon with a really good build, then they could have introduced a separate, very rare currency to force a skill to be passed down or something. That's basically what the precious stones/mitamas are for in a sense. I don't know, I just really dislike rng when the only difficulty it creates is how much time you're willing to waste dealing with it.

Out of curiosity, what do you not agree with at all?

Spoiler

(and damn, this thread made me listen to the ost. Makes me wanna buy an MC505 again)

 

[leroidys]

Great writeup OP. Along with Dragon Quarter, my favorite RPG on the system. Anyone know if there's a patch to put in higher quality audio? The quality (on the PS3 version anyway) is really bad unfortunately.

 

[Error]

The Amala Labyrinth still one of the most atmospheric levels in any rpg.

The music, the story, the bosses, the art and design. Damn I'm pretty sure that place makes the game for me.

 

[guyssorry]

I post in every SMT:Nocturne thread, and I pretty much always say the same thing. Game is a masterpiece, one of the most aesthetically-pleasing games ever. It still holds up. A nice challenge, too. The way the music becomes more complete as you progress through a dungeon is very overlooked and needs to be done in more games. Atlus' best game (IMO) and one of my top 4 RPGs (FF6, Chrono Trigger, Souls series, SMT:Nocturne). A masterpiece.

 

[MontlyCure]

Wish I could forget everything about it and play through it fresh again. Really an amazing game. I watched my friend play through it for the first time recently and it was a great time.

Probably my favorite game soundtrack as well. I learned nearly every battle song on guitar lol.

 

[randomkid]

I do know that the game has rules when it comes to skills inheritance, I'd simply rather the last element not be a pointless rng minigame. That's the thing : there are balancing rules already, why not explain them to the player and let them get on with it? If the point is to have that rare case of being able to make a demon with a really good build, then they could have introduced a separate, very rare currency to force a skill to be passed down or something. That's basically what the precious stones/mitamas are for in a sense. I don't know, I just really dislike rng when the only difficulty it creates is how much time you're willing to waste dealing with it.

Out of curiosity, what do you not agree with at all?

Spoiler

(and damn, this thread made me listen to the ost. Makes me wanna buy an MC505 again)

I love the pacing, I love the Reasons, and any rare annoyances I had with random encounter frequency were mitigated with Estoma and negotiation.

I've written on this masterpiece many a time.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189910856&postcount=167

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=173051488&postcount=23

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151658444&postcount=191

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153003326&postcount=869

And I will never tire of singing its praises.

Like I said, this game always makes us all sound like cultists!

 

[curi0usBystander]

It's been a while since I last played nocturne but It still is one of my favorite JRPGs. I liked everything about the game, the atmosphere, the aesthetic, the OST, the battle system, the minimalistic, storytelling and (even though it was frustrating at times) the amala dungeon.

How terrifying is it when a boss casts Beast or Dragon Eye, and suddenly a string of new turn icons appear?

Ahh the (bad) memories

(yes there are at least 1 dozens of us, [dozens!] who like Persona 1)

We are not alone.

 

[water_wendi]

Nocturne is amazing. Trying to piece together the games systems and formula with emulation was interesting.

 

[Fraxin]

playing smt4 immediately after 3 was a huge let down. i hope the next game can bring the franchise back to nocturnes level of greatness.

Agreed.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

great OP! Thanks for this article, Megaten clearly deserves more love!

i don't think we'll get this level of greatness anymore from atlus, especially when i see what they do now and what P5 and SMT4 became... (they're definitely great RPGs, and i loved them, but it was still disappointing to me compared to previous entries).... KANEKO PLEASE COME BACK

I hope they'll prove me wrong with the new SMT project!

Also loved meguro's style at the time too

Shin Megami Tensei Digital Devil Saga 1 OST Hari-Hara

i know it's not nocturne, but it's the same style and the same era

 

[Danielsan]

Still easily the best SMT game. I doubt they'll ever top it.

 

[Bishop89]

I need to get around to it.

I've never played a smt game (except Persona), but the reason I bought this on PS3 is because the artstyle and atmosphere is through the roof!

Main character looks dope

 

[Izcarielo]

Is this available on Ps4?

 

[PhantomThief]

I made a LTTP not a few weeks ago.. currently stuck on Kabuchiko prison..any help is appreciated .

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1411668&page=100000

Never played a SMT game aside from Persona 5.

But yeah this game is awesome.

 

[snow in jamaica]

fuck

I did recently feel P1 and Nocturne had things in common in their surreal vibes and, for many, impenetrable characterization barriers.

Good write-up. This is my favorite game ever.

 

[kromeo]

I still need to get round to this, loved both the DDSs

 

[dan2026]

I wonder how well this emulates.
I might give it a try.

 

[Magicpaint]

The Amala Labyrinth still one of the most atmospheric levels in any rpg.

The music, the story, the bosses, the art and design. Damn I'm pretty sure that place makes the game for me.

The Amala Labyrinth is one of my favourite dungeons in any RPG. Love how much more sinister it gets as you progress. The battle theme is so rad. I just wish the progress wasn't gated through the fiends that can be so easily missed. I needed a guide to get to some of them.

 

[snow in jamaica]

Did it take anyone else way too long to notice the Vortex World was intra-spherical? As in, the sky is the ground (you can see Asakusa and Ginza from Yoyogi Park) and the world resembles a womb. Also Magatsuhi fertilizes Kagutsuchi.

 

[Easy_D]

I wonder how well this emulates.
I might give it a try.

Well, hardware mode has some visual glitches still, but it runs well in Software, downside being that you're locked to native res, but if you dont have access to a PS2 it works

 

[randomkid]

I made a LTTP not a few weeks ago.. currently stuck on Kabuchiko prison..any help is appreciated .

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1411668&page=100000

Never played a SMT game aside from Persona 5.

But yeah this game is awesome.

Did you try jumping into pits on purpose at any point?

fuck

I did recently feel P1 and Nocturne had things in common in their surreal vibes and, for many, impenetrable characterization barriers.

Good write-up. This is my favorite game ever.

I can't believe how many people are actually reading though and even clicking through the buried hyperlinks! Never thought my crappy shot would show up here haha.

We are not alone.

 

[PhantomThief]

Did you try jumping into pits on purpose at any point?



I can't believe how many people are actually reading though and even clicking through the buried hyperlinks! Never thought my crappy shot would show up here haha.

Yeah but I keep ending up where I was, then got confused and walked all the way down . That place is weird.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

Don't have time to read now OP, but saving it for later because I always hear about how great this game is, but haven't stumbled upon such a long write up about it before. Looking forward to this.

 

[Pandora012]

Atlus, why can't I have this on my ps4?

 

[Imp the Dimp]

That was a great read, thanks OP. PS2 era Atlus will go down as some of the best JRPG content ever.

A remake with some QoF improvements like non-random skill transfer when fusing is well, WELL overdue.

 

[Mookie1515]

I remember renting it as a teenager and not understanding it at all and returned it. It wasn't until I got my SMT training wheels on with Persona 3 that I started understanding the systems more, which got me in to SMTIV.

I fully intend to go back to this someday and see what I know was I missing back then.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Remaster this. The game already has some of the best art direction ever, it needs to be HD.

 

[dan2026]

A lot of the old SMT and Persona games are in this weird limbo where there is no good way to play them these days. I bet most people don't even know they exist.

 

[Xbro]

A lot of the old SMT and Persona games are in this weird limbo where there is no good way to play them these days. I bet most people don't even know they exist.

If you have a PS3 or PS2 Nocturne still plays very well. Though I agree on the rest, with Persona 3 having no good version, DDS duology PS3 version having issues, Persona2 Eternal Punishment locked on the PS1, Persona 4 Golden trapped on the Vita.

P4 vanilla is playable on PS3 though.

 

[TEJ]

My favorite rpg ever.

It needs to get a digital re-release on the ps4.

 

[asagami_]

playing smt4 immediately after 3 was a huge let down. i hope the next game can bring the franchise back to nocturnes level of greatness.

Apocalypse is pretty great (talking about gameplay decisions) and the dungeon complexity is still there (yeah, there are few new dungeons, but they way the game turns certain towns into dungeons just adding barriers and challenges was pretty amazing), so I have hope for the next game.

Honestly a SMT3 remake just need revamp the skill inheritance, and do it like Apocalypse: choose your skills to inherit, but demons can't inherit a skill if they are incompatible; everything left in this game is is perfect. Yes, even the random encounter. Nocturne's pretty generous with the save points, so if they rid the random encounter would be a bit weird. The random encounter is just a problem in hard mode, but let enjoy suffer to those who want it.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

A lot of the old SMT and Persona games are in this weird limbo where there is no good way to play them these days. I bet most people don't even know they exist.

If you have a PS3 or PS2 Nocturne still plays very well. Though I agree on the rest, with Persona 3 having no good version, DDS duology PS3 version having issues, Persona2 Eternal Punishment locked on the PS1, Persona 4 Golden trapped on the Vita.

P4 vanilla is playable on PS3 though.

Man, when people say the old SMT games I think of stuff on the Super FamiCom that never made it over. I want to play those.