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Should I stick with LCD or go Plasma?

JRW

JRW

Member
My vote would be absolutely Plasma. (Although its a shame they stopped making Pioneer Kuro's!) Ive had my Pioneer for 2 years and it destroys any LCD's Ive seen, especially when it comes to actual ANSI contrast ratio (mine tested 2,700:1),Black levels are to die for plus CRT style viewing angles, Zero gamma shift. No "bleeding" backlights (no backlight PERIOD).

I have my PS3/Wii/360/PC hooked up and its been by far the best TV Ive experienced to date.

Pioneer 5080HD:
HP_bluray1.jpg


Dark room test:
bluray.jpg
 
A

abstract alien

Member
Zeni said:
Before buying a 12G Panasonic Plasma (X10, U10, S10, G10, G15, V10) or considering breaking it in for hundreds of hours, you may want to read this.

In a nutshell, users are reporting a built-in mechanism in all 12g Panasonic plasmas that DOUBLES black levels (they become lighter, in some instances worse than low-end LCDs - some of the pictures posted there are painful to watch) after roughly 200 hours of viewing. Also reported is much greater vulnerability to image retention after this inflation.

I recently bought a 42 inch G15, and I have about 130 hours clocked in, and I'm afraid to turn on my TV now.

While I do think Panasonic makes some of the best plasmas, for these reasons, you may want to hold off on buying a 13G Plasma (not necessarily for the 3-D, which isn't all that IMO and can be found already on current-gen Samsung Plasmas), or maybe consider a Samsung/Pioneer.
Click to expand...
Oh shit...I hate poor black levels :^/
 
G

George Claw M.D.

Member
vazel said:
I do love all this plasma love but there are annoying things about it. IR does happen, the glare from sunlight, and picture noise(which iirc is due to pulse width modulation technology plasmas operate on). And black levels are not as good as CRT.
Click to expand...
No one is saying there aren't compromises, but everything considered, plasmas, overall, are the best current displays ... imo.

As far as the inevitable CRT comparisons that always pop-up in LCD vs. Plasma threads, who cares if CRTs have a measurably lower black level than plasmas? The observable difference is nowhere near enough to offset all of the downsides of CRT, in comparison to current flat panel displays, be it PDP or LCD, e.g., poor geometry, convergence issues, no pixel-perfect dot-by-dot 1080p mapping, BULK and WEIGHT. My 27" Sony Wega is 25lbs heavier than the 50" Pioneer KRP-500M that replaced it. My 65" Mitsubishi CRT RPTV weighs over 300lbs! Negligibly better black levels or not, movies/games on my calibrated Mitsu look nowhere near as good as on my Kuro.
 
Z

Zhengi

Member
JRW said:
My vote would be absolutely Plasma. (Although its a shame they stopped making Pioneer Kuro's!) Ive had my Pioneer for 2 years and it destroys any LCD's Ive seen, especially when it comes to actual ANSI contrast ratio (mine tested 2,700:1),Black levels are to die for plus CRT style viewing angles, Zero gamma shift. No "bleeding" backlights (no backlight PERIOD).

I have my PS3/Wii/360/PC hooked up and its been by far the best TV Ive experienced to date.

Pioneer 5080HD:
http://ded.zenblue.net/Pioneer-5080/HP_bluray1.jpg

Dark room test:
http://ded.zenblue.net/Pioneer-5080/bluray.jpg
Click to expand...

Oh my god, I love how the black bars on the top and the bottom look flush with the black frame of the TV. The Pioneer Kuro is awesome. I wish I could have afforded one. Thanks for sharing the pics.
 
J

Jtrizzy

Member
If I were you I'd wait, or get a cheap LCD to hold you over till 3D tv's are around on black friday etc. I've read enough about 3D for Blu ray and PS3 games to know that it's something I'll want. From what I've read, 3D will only add $100-$200 to the price of the tv. I'm going to stick with my 42" Vizio LCD (not very impressive IQ imo) and keep an eye on the 3D price situation
 
DeVeAn

DeVeAn

Member
Get a LCD, especially if your a gamer. Why the hell would you want to worry about how you using your TV? I have a Sony XBR4 besides slight cloud issue awesome PQ. There are XBR9 or 10 now those are amazing. Besides plasmas are like mirriors if there is light around.
 
M

Minotauro

Finds Purchase on Dog Nutz
Plasma all the way. A couple years ago, I bought a Sony LCD but ended up returning if for a Panasonic plasma after being dissatisfied with how LCD handles motion. It's one of the best decisions I've made. I'm routinely taken aback by just how good it can look.
 
Z

Zeni

Member
JRW said:
My vote would be absolutely Plasma. (Although its a shame they stopped making Pioneer Kuro's!) Ive had my Pioneer for 2 years and it destroys any LCD's Ive seen, especially when it comes to actual ANSI contrast ratio (mine tested 2,700:1),Black levels are to die for plus CRT style viewing angles, Zero gamma shift. No "bleeding" backlights (no backlight PERIOD).

I have my PS3/Wii/360/PC hooked up and its been by far the best TV Ive experienced to date.
Click to expand...

Such deep, inky blacks...I hate you.
 
V

vireland

Member
MadOdorMachine said:
4. Price. Plasmas tend to be cheaper than LCDs. Ex. A 42" LG LCD costs $750 vs. $650 for a plasma on Amazon.
Click to expand...

Or less if you shop around. We got a 42S1 42" 1080p Panasonic for $480 shipped in mid December from Amazon. If you're going Panasonic, the S model series is the lowest I would recommend going. If you can swing it, shoot for a G series. The V and Z series are overkill for most gamers. They're not *bad* per se, but avoid the X / U / and C series due to lesser glass, lower res (720p) and missing features like inputs and anti-glare coatings.

But definitely Plasma all the way. It's all we have in the house, from 65" down to 37", all Panasonic, all plasma (though we have had Samsung, Pioneer, and Fujitsu plasmas over the years).
 
Schrade

Schrade

Member
JRW said:
My vote would be absolutely Plasma. (Although its a shame they stopped making Pioneer Kuro's!) Ive had my Pioneer for 2 years and it destroys any LCD's Ive seen, especially when it comes to actual ANSI contrast ratio (mine tested 2,700:1),Black levels are to die for plus CRT style viewing angles, Zero gamma shift. No "bleeding" backlights (no backlight PERIOD).

I have my PS3/Wii/360/PC hooked up and its been by far the best TV Ive experienced to date.

Pioneer 5080HD:
[ IMG]http://ded.zenblue.net/Pioneer-5080/HP_bluray1.jpg[/IMG]

Dark room test:
[ IMG]http://ded.zenblue.net/Pioneer-5080/bluray.jpg[/IMG]
Click to expand...
What about the yellow afterimage artifact of plasma? Do the Kuros somehow fix that?

It's so damn distracting to me :-/
 
Q

quetz67

Banned
DeVeAn said:
Get a LCD, especially if your a gamer. Why the hell would you want to worry about how you using your TV? I have a Sony XBR4 besides slight cloud issue awesome PQ. There are XBR9 or 10 now those are amazing. Besides plasmas are like mirriors if there is light around.
Click to expand...
I am perfectly happy with my Plasma as a gamer.

How is LED technology? Plasma is pretty power hungry.
 
D

Doubledex

Banned
PJX said:
Planning to upgrade my TV this year and get rid of my Sony X3000 LCD. The cloudy issue on the corner is starting to really annoy me. I've been hearing talks about how better plasma has gotten especially for gaming. Should I stick with LCD or go with a Panasonic plasma? I hear Panasonic are the best right now with plasma.
Click to expand...

LCD, no doubt!
Lagspike_exe said:
Isn't the best LCD something from Sony's XBR series?
Click to expand...
Yep!
 
M

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
High-end plasma for gaming. Period. I've been doing a lot of comparisons and shopping around in prep for buying a new TV (although I may have to wait now for the Panasonic Kuro tech plasmas), and I have yet to see an LCD TV that displayed HD gaming images on the level of a good plasma TV.
 
M

Metiphis

Member
I'm on a Panasonic 50" Plasma and it is pure sex. It's right next to the patio doors and sunlight on it during the day really doesn't hinder the picture in any real way that I can notice.
 
S

S1lent

Member
The whole burn-in worry with plasmas is totally overblown. I have a Vizio plasma that I game with all the time and I've never come close to getting burn in. I get some IR, but it's gone quickly and is impossible to see unless the screen is black. So yeah, even the lower-tier plasmas don't have burn-in issues these days.
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
Onix said:
From the sounds of it, this may be better than Kuro.
Click to expand...

Whoa. I was amazed that a year later my TV still beat out everything on the market. In consumer electronics that almost never happens and after this CES it was looking like it would be the best for two years but this may ruin that notion. Must read and hear more. I'll be sad if my TV is no longer the best =) I will no longer be able to say I have the absolute best TV that money can buy. =)
 
Schrade

Schrade

Member
S1lent said:
The whole burn-in worry with plasmas is totally overblown. I have a Vizio plasma that I game with all the time and I've never come close to getting burn in. I get some IR, but it's gone quickly and is impossible to see unless the screen is black. So yeah, even the lower-tier plasmas don't have burn-in issues these days.
Click to expand...
Do you see the yellow after images on your plasma?

Added video links for examples of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV_fXCW2rOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm63BEhHWUk

*** WARNING *** If you own a plasma and have never seen this before, it's probably better to not look because then you'll forever notice it. Kinda like how if you've never noticed tearing in games before and someone shows you what it is...you'll forever notice it.
 
V

vazel

Banned
George Claw M.D. said:
No one is saying there aren't compromises, but everything considered, plasmas, overall, are the best current displays ... imo.

As far as the inevitable CRT comparisons that always pop-up in LCD vs. Plasma threads, who cares if CRTs have a measurably lower black level than plasmas? The observable difference is nowhere near enough to offset all of the downsides of CRT, in comparison to current flat panel displays, be it PDP or LCD, e.g., poor geometry, convergence issues, no pixel-perfect dot-by-dot 1080p mapping, BULK and WEIGHT. My 27" Sony Wega is 25lbs heavier than the 50" Pioneer KRP-500M that replaced it. My 65" Mitsubishi CRT RPTV weighs over 300lbs! Negligibly better black levels or not, movies/games on my calibrated Mitsu look nowhere near as good as on my Kuro.
Click to expand...
I agree that overall plasma is better than CRT but there is a definite observable difference in black levels I noticed it right away. Plasma black levels are overhyped just because they handle blacks better than LCD doesn't mean much. Unfortunately I was not lucky enough to have gotten a Kuro so can't say if that lives up to the hype mine is a 2008 model Panasonic.
 
P

PjotrStroganov

Member
Schrade said:
Do you see the yellow after images on your plasma?

Added video links for examples of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV_fXCW2rOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm63BEhHWUk

*** WARNING *** If you own a plasma and have never seen this before, it's probably better to not look because then you'll forever notice it. Kinda like how if you've never noticed tearing in games before and someone shows you what it is...you'll forever notice it.
Click to expand...


Wow

Is this an issue with all plasmas?
 
N

nubbe

Member
those plasmas must be broken, my Panasonic 50G10 don't behave like that and I have not seen other plasmas besides Samsung do it.
 
robor

robor

Member
Ok, I'm currently searching for a HDTV right now as well. My gut feeling is to go with plasma. Now that's out of the way, can someone please clarify the whole Kuro story in fairly "brief terms". Is it true Pioneer have stopped producing them? If not, then what is their cheapest model? Do they still make 42" models? Should I just wait for the Panasonic Kuro instead?
 
Z

Zapages

Member
robor said:
Ok, I'm currently searching for a HDTV right now as well. My gut feeling is to go with plasma. Now that's out of the way, can someone please clarify the whole Kuro story in fairly "brief terms". Is it true Pioneer have stopped producing them? If not, then what is their cheapest model? Do they still make 42" models? Should I just wait for the Panasonic Kuro instead?
Click to expand...

Sears has TC-P42S1 for 650 + 50 mail in rebate. So its like 600 dollars. This is till 1/9/10. :)
 
N

nubbe

Member
The Panasonic Kuro seem to be the Pioneer Kuro and I'd guess those panels will get a premium pricing compared to Panasonic's own PDP panel.
 
B

brain_stew

Member
abstract alien said:
Yeah, I'm still kinda marking out over that info. I will absolutely be getting a nice 42' model, and that will be my tv for the next 8 years most likely.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if that range starts at 50" tbh.
 
A

abstract alien

Member
brain_stew said:
I wouldn't be surprised if that range starts at 50" tbh.
Click to expand...
Eh, Im a bit partial to 42' sets, but I guess I could compromise for kuro tech. Im sure the quality would be as expected(hopefully anyway), so I wouldn't mind getting a 50'
 
D

duk

Banned
abstract alien said:
Yeah, I'm still kinda marking out over that info. I will absolutely be getting a nice 42' model, and that will be my tv for the next 8 years most likely.
Click to expand...

ima wait a year, i still have a nice 3yr old 50 panny... will need a 3D 55in set to replace it
 
V

viewtiful_dru

Member
All of my friends have LCDs.

And I think that my Panasonic plasma is better than all of them, except for my friend's XBR (but that's ONLY when it comes to sub 720p content).
 
J

jay

Member
There seems to be some sort of conspiracy to push plasma out and replace it with LCD.

My Pioneer is pretty good so I will stick with plasma.
 
K

kodt

Banned
borghe said:
Yes and no. Yes it "could" be implemented on any TV with 120Hz or higher refresh. However no, it really can't be "bolted" on to any such TV. there needs to be a sync between the LED shutters and the tv refresh that typically the tv controls through either an ir emitter or Bluetooth. And that is with an active system. With a passive system the tv needs to be designed for 3D from the ground up.
Click to expand...

Besides those 120hz and 240hz sets aren't true 120hz or 240hz since they cannot accept a 120hz or 240hz signal. They only accept up to 60hz signals. So for example if you connected them to your PC and tried to use the Nvidia 3D glasses it would not work. You would need a true 120hz set of which only 2 LCD's exist AFAIK (both are only 22" monitors)
 
C

Cheez-It

Member
jay said:
There seems to be some sort of conspiracy to push plasma out and replace it with LCD.

My Pioneer is pretty good so I will stick with plasma.
Click to expand...

Seriously. You have people posting bullshit movies that are not representative, posting FUD that hasn't been valid for years...

Or it could be that people in general are ignorant. I'm leaning towards the latter.
 
J

jay

Member
Cheez-It said:
Seriously. You have people posting bullshit movies that are not representative, posting FUD that hasn't been valid for years...

Or it could be that people in general are ignorant. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Click to expand...

Is the ultimate potential of LCD much better than plasma or something? To me it seems like manufacturers are basically replacing a superior, cheaper technology with an inferior, more expensive technology (that is more power efficient and lighter, granted).
 
Z

Zapages

Member
My question is:

How is the TC-P42S1 as a computer monitor and for areas with bright sun light that changes during the day?
 
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