Support NeoGAF

[ShockingAlberto]

But Limbaugh is the star of his show and his show portrays his views, Card is just a small portion of the game project and the project itself doesn't promote his homophobic agenda AFAIK. And maybe the guys at Epic didn't know about his stance on the matter. I've read and own quite a few of his books and didn't know about this until I entered this thread.

Well, Epic is a rich company. They own Chair wholly. If Epic fails because Shadow Complex is being boycotted by a few people, then they were being held up by a lie-glued house of cards that would make Enron look minor league.

The game is published by Microsoft Game Studio. They, likewise, are not really hurting for money.

I'm not looking to bring down Chair or Epic or Microsoft by not buying one downloadable game. I'm saying, this is my $15. If I give it to them, I will get a product in exchange, but my money will go somewhere I don't want it to. If I keep it, I don't get the game, but my money, the dollars in my bank account, stay where I know they're not doing any harm.

That's not a tradeoff everyone's willing to make and it isn't because I'm better than other people, it's because I place my priorities in different places than some other people do.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

what the fuck

is

this shit

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I'm boycotting because this game looks gay.

And another one bites the dust.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Thanks for the reply. I understand your point know

Sure, no problem

It's important to note that gay rights advocates aren't interested in forcing a certain church to perform a same sex marriage any more than a christian is interested in forcing a Jewish synagogue to perform a christian ceremony.

The issue is the civil marriage aspect.

 

[lastendconductor]

I don't think it is completely correct to say there is NO real association between Chair and these views given that this is the SECOND game they have made based on his works. That is clearly not a random coincidence. It's not just a one off where they saw a cool idea for a game and pursued it. Literary licenses for videogames are incredibly rare. For a company to have TWO products associated with a single author is pretty rare (outside of Clancy and Ubisoft).

The concepts of these games clearly doesn't require a literary association but the designers sought out an associating with Card. Twice.

I see. I think you guys should send an open letter to Chair asking them to clarify their stance.

 

[M_A_C]

And another one bites the dust.

Sarcasm is hard.

 

[poppabk]

The Supreme Court of California ruled that denying same sex marriage was a violation of the state constitution and granted the ability for gay people to enter into civil marriage with one another in the state of California. In the U.S., marriage offers a suite of over 1,000 rights and privileges that, obviously, gay people don't have access to.

So Prop 8 was an effort not to block, but to remove rights that had been legally granted by the state.

Not legally granted by the state, but legally forced to grant by the courts. Which is probably why a lot of people probably supported the measure and why the mayors - its gonna happen whether you want it to or not statement- riled people up so much.

 

[EternalGamer]

Oh, of course! At every store I purchase things from, I ask all the cashiers a series of political questions. I will only purchase from stores that share the exact same political ideology I do.

And I only buy videogames developed by Bill Maher. It limits my selection, but you know, I just couldn't stand supporting someone who has different views than my own.

It is a completely different question of how much burden should be on the consumer to investigate the background of the products they buy. In this case, there is no such burden for anyone posting in this thread becaus they have alraedy been informed. So it's not about how much time you are willing to investigate, it is about what do you do when you already know the background of this particular product.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

And another one bites the dust.

You would think people would learn...

Amir0x is probably tired from swinging that banhammer all afternoon

 

[Timber]

Maybe I didn't word it properly, but if it's a matter of trying to change the world for the better there's much more meaningful ways than boycotting Shadow Complex.

And by boycotting Shadow Complex we magically forsake all these more meaningful ways? Because we choose not to buy a game, we can't vote against anti-gay laws, donate to helpful causes, etc.? I don't understand this argument at all. This is not a matter of "either do this, or that." We can do it all, you know! One can only come to the conclusion that that is, in fact, the most effective course of action.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

Sarcasm is hard.

and not funny.....at all

 

[Me_Marcadet]

Why are you against homosexual marriage?

Because for me and the law of my country, the marriage is meant to be betwin a woman and a man.
I don't understand why people want homosexual marriage because it's no more a marriage

It's possible to have the same rights of the marriage without geting married.

Liek I said, in France people who want gay marriage are not taken seriously. There's a lot more serious people who want some new laws for homosexual parenting tough.

 

[Ramenman]

I'm against homosexual marriage but I'm for homosexual parenting for example.

What. I'm puzzled.

I thought people against homosexual marriage were against it only because they were homophobes and couldn't stand to see two people of the same sex having a love relationship, and thus seeing them granted the right to be acknowledged by the country as a couple would only be salt in the wounds.

D:


By the way, I'm French too, before people start thinking it's a cultural thing.

 

[Pepto]

Good thread. I will skip on this game.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

and not funny.....at all

oh please, it was obvious sarcasm

lighten up, there was no bad intent there

 

[Askani]

The question was asked to me. Not some Brazilian Amazonian tribe alright so electricity is an essential commodity in the first world. It is and the fact you keep bringing this up is absurd and asinine. You are arguing semantics for the sake or arguing. How about clothes then? We don't need clothes or running water or heat because back when we were hunter gatherers we we had none of that. Who gives a shit. Life today ain't like what it was even 50 years ago. This is getting off topic so end this here. Arguing whether electricity is essential is retarded because we all in the first world live with it and need it and would not choose to go without on our own accord.

Cripes. That's the point you're missing. That was the whole point of the question in the first goddamn place. Are your convictions strong enough to pick up and leave and go someplace else if this were the case in your city today? Where is the line of what you will or won't put up with and what crosses it.

I'll agree though, it's off-topic and done.

 

[kodt]

1) Keep amending that stupid analogy even further.

2) Ya that is wonderful. OSC not getting his share of 15 dollars may not hurt him too much but it certainly doesn't help his case so I fail to see how it is not even worth mentioning.

1. If you read my posts I also mentioned generating your own electricity which would allow you to continue to live in modern society, you seemed to ignore that completely as a possibility. Anyway we are arguing semantics at this point, the question was simply meant to make a point which I have mentioned several times so there is no need to repeat it.

2. All I can say here is that I disagree, it is so utterly useless that I feel that I have wasted time even clicking on this thread. I won't argue the point any further. Some people might think this makes a difference, I don't.

 

[wolfmat]

I wasn't even thinking about buying the game anyway. You may write that down as a boycott if you want to

 

[Timber]

Because for me and the law of my country, the marriage is meant to be betwin a woman and a man.
I don't understand why people want homosexual marriage because it's no more a marriage

Damn, I never looked at it that way. Time to re-evaluate my stance!

 

[LittleTokyo]

There a LOTS of people are against gay marriage. It's no reason to boycott anything. It's amazing how out of touch some people are.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

something that really scares me about people like OSC is that he's erudite, educated and articulate.

and yet... he has chosen to use his intellect to openly support something so negative in a world that he could do great things in.

it's utterly baffling to think that someone like that thinks like this...

and totally indefensible

hateful.

does epic have any gay employees? i wonder what sort of message this sends to them?

 

[Chrange]

I don't think it is completely correct to say there is NO real association between Chair and these views given that this is the SECOND game they have made based on his works. That is clearly not a random coincidence. It's not just a one off where they saw a cool idea for a game and pursued it. Literary licenses for videogames are incredibly rare. For a company to have TWO products associated with a single author is pretty rare (outside of Clancy and Ubisoft).

The concepts of these games clearly doesn't require a literary association but the designers sought out an associating with Card. Twice.

So, simply because they've twice worked with a world famous writer, it's suddenly obvious to you that everyone at Chair completely shares his views and is also sponsoring some insidious anti-gay movement?

The leap in logic there is fucking STAGGERING.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

There a LOTS of people are against gay marriage. It's no reason to boycott anything. It's amazing how out of touch some people are.

It is pretty amazing, isn't it?

 

[Littlegator]

Even if I was homosexual, I'd probably find it impossible to dislike the greatest sci-fi author ever. >_>

 

[EternalGamer]

Because for me and the law of my country, the marriage is meant to be betwin a woman and a man.
I don't understand why people want homosexual marriage because it's no more a marriage

It's possible to have the same rights of the marriage without geting married.

And the term "citizen" from the times of Ancient Greece until the late 19th century meant "white male." By your argument we shouldn't have allowed blacks or women to become "citizens" because the term citizen "always meant white male."

Limiting someone's rights because you want to maintain the purity of a term always seemed pretty absurd to me. The meaning of words always are changing because language is fluid. The word "daughter" comes from an anglosaxon word meaning "one who milks" and wife from the term "wifan" which means "one who weaves." You might as well argue that women today should no longer be allowed to be called wives unless they weave or female children should have to be called something else unless they milk cows.

 

[DrFunk]

Sarcasm is hard.

so is being funny, apparently

 

[Tobor]

Even if I was homosexual, I'd probably find it impossible to dislike the greatest sci-fi author ever. >_>

Well, sure, but who doesn't like Asimov?

 

[Skittleguy]

...sigh...

 

[EternalGamer]

So, simply because they've twice worked with a world famous writer, it's suddenly obvious to you that everyone at Chair completely shares his views and is also sponsoring some insidious anti-gay movement?

The leap in logic there is fucking STAGGERING.

I didn't say it was necessarily the case. I'm just saying that it's not as if it is just one random occurrence of a company showing a willingness to choke down abberant politics in the name of a cool concept. This is clearly an established relationship at this point. The basis of the relationship is still up for question, but I'd say there is good reason to question the company on WHY they continue to associate with Card.

 

[mollipen]

Because for me and the law of my country, the marriage is meant to be betwin a woman and a man.

But why? And "just because" isn't a valid answer.

 

[Burger]

There's things like GLSEN, which seems to end sexual discrimination against gays, lesbians, and transgendered people, especially in regard to bullying in school by both other students and faculty. They work as a non-profit organization with three thousand volunteers and forty full time staff, donations generally go to paying them.

There's GLAAD, which does much the same thing, but not focused just on school harassment. They work with churches to raise awareness that homosexuality isn't evil, run outreach programs for gay and straight people alike, and have care-centers that don't really run for free.

There's also PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays), which has been sued by evangelicals like Pat Robertson in an effort to keep their campaigns of gay acceptance of family members off the air. Those legal bills aren't exactly free.

It's not charity in the sense you know it, but the money goes to good causes.

Thanks, I wasn't aware.

 

[deepbrown]

Everything that this guy believes in and has written makes me feel physically sick.

But, I don't think it's right to boycot a whole company's game, with people who don't believe what that one person believes in.

 

[Big B]

This thread/trap is amazing.

Also, I hope nobody buys this game JUST as a fuck you to the people who wants to think about where their dollar goes. Because some of the the posts seem to convey that.

 

[deepbrown]

But why? And "just because" isn't a valid answer.

I don't believe in marriage, for men or women. Marriage is a religious concept. It's unneeded and pointless. Civil partnership is fine.

 

[lastendconductor]

Well, sure, but who doesn't like Philip K. Dick?

fixed

 

[mavs]

Even if I was homosexual, I'd probably find it impossible to dislike the greatest sci-fi author ever. >_>

Philip K. Dick never did anything bad to gays..

^ Aw.

 

[Lostconfused]

Well, sure, but who doesn't like Asimov?

I am straight and i think those sideburns are sexy.

 

[Timber]

The leap in logic there is fucking STAGGERING.

So why did you make it? :lol

I don't believe in marriage, for men or women. Marriage is a religious concept.

oh man. this thread is so much fun :lol

 

[Mercury Fred]

Not legally granted by the state, but legally forced to grant by the courts.

Oh, like what happened with mixed race marriage?

Also, I hope nobody buys this game JUST as a fuck you to the people who wants to think about where their dollar goes. Because some of the the posts seem to convey that.

I'll bet most of those posts are just internet tough guys/ contrarians that are saying it just to say it.

 

[LocoMrPollock]

Actually Card licensed the Emipre/Shadow Complex IP from Chair to write the novels.

In any case, the man has a right to his opinion and the right to speak it. But it has absolutely nothing to do with Shadow Complex the game.

Don't punish the people who worked on this game for his beliefs, that's just as ignorant as he is.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Everything that this guy believes in and has written makes me feel physically sick.

But, I don't think it's right to boycot a whole company's game, with people who don't believe what that one person believes in.

they are endorsing someone who has been publicly campaigning for the human rights of others to be harmed...

also, to all the justifiers in this thread... i wonder how you'd take it if it was someone who would have your own civil liberties taken away in a heartbeat?

 

[Asmodai]

Even if I was homosexual, I'd probably find it impossible to dislike the greatest sci-fi author ever. >_>

What does Douglas Adams have to do with this thread?

they are endorsing someone who has been publicly campaigning for the human rights of others to be harmed...

also, to all the justifiers in this thread... i wonder how you'd take it if it was someone who would have your own civil liberties taken away in a heartbeat?

Games are developed by teams of dozens, even hundreds of people this generation.

Are you really so incredibly naive as to believe that the vast majority of games don't have developers who think like OSC?

Writing the story in a shooting game is about as major a role as drawing the cover illustration on a novel. It's a minor role at best.

 

[Doodis]

I don't think it is completely correct to say there is NO real association between Chair and these views given that this is the SECOND game they have made based on his works. That is clearly not a random coincidence. It's not just a one off where they saw a cool idea for a game and pursued it. Literary licenses for videogames are incredibly rare. For a company to have TWO products associated with a single author is pretty rare (outside of Clancy and Ubisoft).

The concepts of these games clearly doesn't require a literary association but the designers sought out an associating with Card. Twice.

I'm sure Chair decided to work with him because of his strong anti-homosexual stance, not because he's written several novels that are considered some of the top sci-fi books of all time.

 

[elrechazado]

Even if I was homosexual, I'd probably find it impossible to dislike the greatest sci-fi author ever. >_>

Of all the outrageous things said on both sides this is the worst.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Divvy]

Actually Card licensed the Emipre/Shadow Complex IP from Chair to write the novels.

In any case, the man has a right to his opinion and the right to speak it. But it has absolutely nothing to do with Shadow Complex the game.

Don't punish the people who worked on this game for his beliefs, that's just as ignorant as he is.

I still don't get why choosing not to purchase a game is punishing the developers. It's not like the consumer is obligated to support the devs with their purchase. People choose to not buy things for all sorts of different reasons.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Actually Card licensed the Emipre/Shadow Complex IP from Chair to write the novels.

In any case, the man has a right to his opinion and the right to speak it. But it has absolutely nothing to do with Shadow Complex the game.

Don't punish the people who worked on this game for his beliefs, that's just as ignorant as he is.

an opinion and an organized, funded and planned public campaign to remove the rights of others are NOT THE SAME THING


why don't people get that. I respect anyones right to an opinion... not the right to use their power to negatively impact on the lives of others.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Actually Card licensed the Emipre/Shadow Complex IP from Chair to write the novels.

In any case, the man has a right to his opinion and the right to speak it. But it has absolutely nothing to do with Shadow Complex the game.

Don't punish the people who worked on this game for his beliefs, that's just as ignorant as he is.

This gets said a lot and I'm ultimately confused by it.

Did Chair not pay Card for his work? Did he work for free and force himself in to the project at their expressed disagreement?

 

[Foob]

Is this that black and white ww2 game

 

[Asmodai]

an opinion and an organized, funded and planned public campaign to remove the rights of others are NOT THE SAME THING


why don't people get that. I respect anyones right to an opinion... not the right to use their power to negatively impact on the lives of others.

People give tithes to religions all the time that have a far more direct role than a videogame ever would. Go tell religious fundamentalists to stop funding political initiatives that you disagree with.

Oh, and bolding your opinions doesn't make them more legitimate. If anything it makes you look like an idiot. Why, I would go so far as to say that your use of bolding "negatively impacts my life by annoying me". :lol

 

[elrechazado]

an opinion and an organized, funded and planned public campaign to remove the rights of others are NOT THE SAME THING


why don't people get that. I respect anyones right to an opinion... not the right to use their power to negatively impact on the lives of others.

So you don't believe in any organized political activity that could affect the life of another person? Your beef should be with the constitution of the state of california, which allows referenda through which the people can change the law.