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[MvmntInGrn]

Having a fuckton of money doesn't give him a machine to to control minds. And the end, people votes what they feel.

As you look altered, I'll put clearly to you. With no Orson doing a campaign, the result would have been the same.

Advertising and money have an influence, doubting that is flat out naive. Maybe the difference without Orson would be minimal, but what about without 10, 20, or 100 or him?

You stop as many little factors as you can, they do add up.

 

[duckroll]

They sure can! But would it be wrong to describe the OSC haters as Mormonphobes or Christianphobes? Or accuse them of hate speech for attacking OSC' because of his opinions? My concern is that targetting a minority group - be they Muslims, gays, or Mormons - as the main proponents of a social conflict puts that group into a dangerous position, historically speaking.

Plus, the elephant in the room is that Hispanics and African-Americans, who voted overwhelmingly for the Demcratic Party, were the most supportive of Proposition 8. I fear that the Mormons are being unfairly singled out because (a) they make up a miniscule percentage of the population and (b) no one really likes them anyway, especially other Christian groups (some of whom don't even consider Mormonism Christian!).

But whatevs, I don't buy stuff from OSC because I find his work to be boring, pretentious and philosophically confused. Ender's Game was a fun read tho.

I'm Catholic. As far as GAF goes, I believe I'm pretty much a minority group too. It would be wrong to describe people who have something against OSC as Mormonphobes or Christianphobes because it is not his religion people are against, but his actions and his outspoken opinions.

 

[Alphahawk]

Card was chosen for his writing styles, not his political stance. Do the boycotters of this game believe that every one they support has a political ideology similar to their own? Your money probably goes to supporting much worse stances than this on a regular basis. It almost offends me to join this discussion as we're making this game seem like some kind of taboo subject when it's not.

If you're really offended by Card making this, but still want to play I have a suggestion: buy this game3e and contribute and equal amount of money to a pro gay marriage organization.

 

[nincompoop]

Apparently you can boycott OSC and still play the full game for free, legally, by exploiting a glitch in the demo. Everyone wins!
link removed

 

[ShockingAlberto]

If you don't like it, don't buy the games or books by him.

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

 

[entremet]

Pretty ignorant of posters singling out an entire state for homophobia and racism. That's the same kind of thinking that perpetuates prejudice in all its forms.

I can understand making a point to boycott the game due to OSC's involvement. He clearly has illustrated his views in speech and action, but calling entire development studios homophobic is pretty ignorant.

 

[Terrordactyl]

OP is ridiculous, I'd say more but I don't want to be banned. Michael Jackson was a pedophile in public perception, do you think I gave a shit when listening to Billie Jean in Vice City? Imagine that someone doesn't like gays, hasn't the gay world been dealing with this for decades now? You'd think by now every little homophobe with a microphone in his face wouldn't tick you off.

 

[sevenchaos]

:lol you did not just say that!

I tolerate bigotry! Let's play!

He doesn't want gays/lesbians getting married. That's his problem. Why should that effect me and why can't I respect his views? I for one think gays and lesbians should have equal rights. None of this stupid civil union bull shit. They should get married and be equal amongst the straight.

As an American though I often find myself at odds with people around me. I like people thinking for themselves even if I think they're fucking stupid. The line is crossed when you become violent or make threats. Maybe I suck at reading but I don't see any of that in the OP.

 

[GhaleonQ]

His admitting to not being a hardcore lefty. Watch out!

Seriously. Conservatives, just don't post. GAF moderators are insane. If you really want to sit at the feet of Y2Kev or EmCeeGramr (and who wouldn't want a sip from those fonts of wisdom?), go trudge through PoliGAF.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Nice knowing ya, sevenchaos.

 

[Undeux]

Apparently you can boycott this tard and still play the full game for free, legally, by exploiting a glitch in the demo. Everyone wins!

You might want to edit that post, pretty sure that's bannable.

 

[Chrange]

yep, saying homosexuality doesn't makes you dysfunctional is totally radical leftism

To be fair, he said it's a reproduction dysfunction which is entirely accurate. Two guy-two girl pairs can't reproduce, unless you're talking about certain species of frogs. It makes little difference in this day and age though, where either side could have a child through scientific means.

Yes, men too:

 

[Coins]

Having a fuckton of money doesn't give him a machine to to control minds. And the end, people votes what they feel.

As you look altered, I'll put clearly to you. With no Orson doing a campaign, the result would have been the same.

Wrong. His hate speech motivated people to go vote against something they dont understand and suddenly fear.

OSC said this about gay people.

The dark secret of homosexual society -- the one that dares not speak its name -- is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.

It's that desire for normality, that discontent with perpetual adolescent sexuality, that is at least partly behind this hunger for homosexual "marriage."

He has lots of money to spread the fear he discloses often in a public forum. He directly affected votes. Just like Swift Boaters did with Kerry.

 

[sn00zer]

Well thats it.

Games infinitely more controversial or racial insensitive than something made by Orson Scott Card:
Call of Duty 4
Crysis
America's Army
Assassin's Creed
Grand Theft Auto

You want original games? But hey cant be writtend by people you find morally objectionably? Well your going to have a lot less original games and stories in the future.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Something glitch blah blah blah

WTF is this even allowed in here?

 

[PataHikari]

I'm Catholic. As far as GAF goes, I believe I'm pretty much a minority group too. It would be wrong to describe people who have something against OSC as Mormonphobes or Christianphobes because it is not his religion people are against, but his actions and his outspoken opinions.

There have been people in this thread who've compared being a Mormon to being a Nazi or a Klan member.

 

[FinFan]

I'll compromise. I'll boycott the story and play with the sound down. The fucking gameplay rocks, I love this game.

 

[Y2Kev]

Seriously. Conservatives, just don't post. GAF moderators are insane. If you really want to sit at the feet of Y2Kev or EmCeeGramr (and who wouldn't want a sip from those fonts of wisdom?), go trudge through PoliGAF.

I barely even post in PoliGAF! And I bought Shadow Complex! I don't think asking people to be respectful of another poster and correcting someone who thinks Bioshock supports Randianism is really being a SUPER CRAZY LIBERAL.

edit: Why do you even see this as a conservative/liberal question?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Seriously. Conservatives, just don't post. GAF moderators are insane. If you really want to sit at the feet of Y2Kev or EmCeeGramr (and who wouldn't want a sip from those fonts of wisdom?), go trudge through PoliGAF.

oh dear god, when will the conservative be free from persecution, to freely say that he hopes those gays (with their gay disease) won't be given rights

it's just not fair, when we get our rights (is a middle class white male that spends his time playing expensive electronic toys)

 

[Vinci]

Homophobic speech is actually against their terms of service. So the argument is moot. They do have disciplinary systems in place, but most people don't use it.

But haven't people said that Shadow Complex doesn't feature any anti-homosexual messages? The issue was that it was providing money to a man (possibly a group of them) that actively dislike homosexuals; Microsoft is allowing that to happen.

Why draw the line at that point?

 

[Union Carbine]

This cannot be reiterated enough.

Seriously.

It's the Appeal to Common Practice fallacy which I quoted awhile back.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

hahaha

religion...fucking everything up since, well, ever

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I think people are being too naive in their defence of Chair, as people have said they've had a long relationship with OSC and I doubt they'd be referring to him as a friend rather than partner if they didn't uphold similar views given their tolerance to his bigotry. Clearly the major point of interest here is their relationship with Epic...

That said every modern society functions on the backs of the lower classes (whether on a national or international thanks to the effect of globalization) in travesties far worst than somebody opposing gay marriage. So as others have said it seems a little odd to star boycotting here.

 

[mollipen]

What about all the other games they've bought and may buy that possibly have homophobic activists in high positions on the dev team? If someone is going to take this (in)action against Shadow Complex, they'd better be ready to research the social and political views of everyone in charge of every other game they ever buy. Or are we only being socially conscious when people with these viewpoints are being shoved right in our face?

Well, let me be realistic here: I'm not going to go out and research every game and its origins before I buy it. But if I'm thinking about buying a game, and I hear something like this before I purchase it, why wouldn't I use that new knowledge to possibly re-consider said purchase?

It's like... I can't prove that every game I own wasn't made by puppy killers. Maybe Team Silent got REALLY freaky when working on the original Silent Hill, who knows. But if I'm going to go out and buy New Game X, and before I do I find out that one of the guys who helped make it enjoys killing puppies, yeah, that's going to give me pause. That's only logical.

It isn't about some big huge campaign to know the origins of every product you buy: it's simply about second-guessing a possible purchase once you've found out more information about it. That's only logical, really.

 

[scitek]

I think this is the problem though, how do we know for sure that they don't share Card's views? I'm not talking about say, the employees working at Chair who worked hard on the game. I'm loving the game, and I acknowledge their hard work. But one thing I think would be good to discuss is that there IS a big questionable relationship between the founders of Chair and Card. There's a personal relationship there and since they collaborated to create the world of Empire, which is.... extremely right-wing batshit insane, it's hard to believe that the founders of Chair share NO common views on many of the things expressed there.

Does that make more sense?

What if we don't see anything wrong with liking games or books written by people with those views, though? Insinuating they're crazy and should have no right to express their opinions on things like gay marriage is just as oppressive as their views on gay marriage. You can't be completely closed-minded and disrespectful of their opinion and pretend you're not just as bad as they are. In that case you are, you're just on the opposite end of the argument.

 

[LiK]

I'll compromise. I'll boycott the story and play with the sound down. The fucking gameplay rocks, I love this game.

huh? why? the game doesn't push any anti-gay messages. besides, you just muted Nolan North's kickass voiceover work. blasphemy!

 

[Chichikov]

First of all I’ve bought the game and I enjoy it thoroughly, it’s fucking amazing.

That being said, I totally understand this boycott. A boycott is the consumers’ way of telling a company that they’re unhappy with the way they conduct their business.
And having a business relationship with Orson Scott Card is something that I personally frown upon, not sure if it’s to the level of not buying the game (it’s water under the bridge anyway since I didn’t even know of his involvement when I made the purchase), but if such move is going to prevent other companies from getting into business ventures with him then it’s a-ok with me.

 

[T-1000_Model3]

You want a game to be offended by? Go play the Metal Gear Solid series and try to swallow its story. Thats pure trash at its worst.
:lol

 

[charlequin]

He was a pretty good writer back in the day. His writing these days is a lot worse.

It's very true, and sadly it's almost directly as a result of his politics creeping into them. Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead are still two of the best science fiction novels ever written, but these days everything is filled up with a bizarre breeding obsession and a loathing of modern American moderate-to-liberal values.

He's entitled to free speech

But the OP isn't, either in expressing his disapproval of Card's actions or in encouraging other people to boycott his game? Is that really the case you're trying to make?

But would it be wrong to describe the OSC haters as Mormonphobes or Christianphobes?

Yes, because it would be completely inaccurate? I'm certain I can find you people who "hate" (or rather, strongly denounce) OSC for his strong advocacy of homophobic positions who are themselves Christian.

 

[Drinky Crow]

I don't think the point is really, someone on the project may have views I find objectionable, therefore I refuse to have my money "fund" them. I feel that's an unsustainable principle to attempt to hold yourself to. The point should be, Card was brought into the project in order to enhance its profile, raise its legitimacy, and generate interest; your political goal therefore is to project the message that the exact opposite will be the case, that his being attached to a project will harm it.

holy shit, apf finally wins a thread

 

[soldat7]

Yes...everyone from Utah is somehow tied to a Anti Gay Marriage association.

We should boycott Jaffe's next game as well. And the 2002 Olympics.

 

[entremet]

Apparently you can boycott OSC and still play the full game for free, legally, by exploiting a glitch in the demo. Everyone wins!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwHeQwJVQUQ#t=1m11s

So you propose boycotting OSC by employing unethical means? Gotcha.

 

[Big-E]

Honestly, people still aren't understanding the difference from opinion to actively trying to destroy someone's rights. I feel like those agents in that one Simpson's episode where they try to get Homer to respond to his new name and he just can't do it. The amount of stupidity and ignorance in this thread is absurd even for gaming side.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

I am just curious, but since the GAF consensus seems to be close to agreeing that it is a just protest to not buy this game because of its associations with an anti-gay activist (dear lord I hate when people use the term homophobic, so inaccurate), is it also then a wise decision if you have anti-gay views to buy more than one copy of the game or encourage others to do so?

 

[nincompoop]

You might want to edit that post, pretty sure that's bannable.

You're right, I thought better of it and edited right away.

So you propose boycotting OSC by employing unethical means? Gotcha.

I don't see anything unethical about it, if they accidentally release a demo with a glitch that allows you to play the full game then you're fully entitled to take advantage of it. Nothing's stopping you from buying the game if you want.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Well thats it.

Games infinitely more controversial or racial insensitive than something made by Orson Scott Card:
Call of Duty 4
Crysis
America's Army
Assassin's Creed
Grand Theft Auto

You want original games? But hey cant be writtend by people you find morally objectionably? Well your going to have a lot less original games and stories in the future.

I like that somehow you can't imagine a world where people don't buy any of those games.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

What if we don't see anything wrong with liking games or books written by people with those views, though? Insinuating they're crazy and should have no right to express their opinions on things like gay marriage is just as oppressive as their views on gay marriage. You can't be completely closed-minded and disrespectful of their opinion and pretend you're not just as bad as they are. In that case you are, you're just on the opposite end of the argument.

Not supporting their opinion by choosing to boycott their products is nowhere near the same as being of the opinion that certain groups don't have rights. False equality.

 

[FinFan]

huh? why? the game doesn't push any anti-gay messages. besides, you just muted Nolan North's kickass voiceover work. blasphemy!

I was kidding, I'm getting my $15 bucks worth :lol

 

[duckroll]

There have been people in this thread who've compared being a Mormon to being a Nazi or a Klan member.

Well, I don't share those views, and I wanted to be clear about that. Those who have expressed such can be called out to explain their views. I think it's possible to have a meaningful discussion with many people who have conflicting and diverse discussions, even on sensitive issues. Sure, it's really hard especially when the signal to noise ratio is high in a thread such as this, but we can all try at least.

 

[Undeux]

You're right, I thought better of it and edited right away.

I meant from a piracy standpoint, but okay.

 

[LiK]

I was kidding, I'm getting my $15 bucks worth :lol

damn right!

 

[Lakitu]

It's already been stated but, OP is free to do what he wants, but it's pointless at the end of the day. Political and moral beliefs have nothing to do with games, or creation, otherwise you'd be questioning and boycotting everything you buy plus fucking over the true creators in this instance. Though boycotts, largely do not work in the grand scheme of things.

 

[squicken]

No, he said it is a dysfunction. Again:

You'll have to forgive me, as I'm not as well read on such things as you are. But he did not say homosexuality is dysfunctional, he called it a "reproductive dysfunction."

So is calling homosexual sex reproductively dysfunctional hate speech? Just plain wrong? Is it that reasonable minds cannot disagree as to whether homosexual sex is reproductively functional?

I want to very clear here. I saw a post that was far less inflammatory than many others, a post that even called for cooler heads. And I just want to know exactly what line was crossed so I can change the content of my future posts if necessary.

 

[entremet]

You're right, I thought better of it and edited right away.

I don't see anything unethical about it, if they accidentally release a demo with a glitch that allows you to play the full game then you're fully entitled to take advantage of it. Nothing's stopping you from buying the game if you want.

Okay. I misunderstood your intentions.

 

[sn00zer]

I like that somehow you can't imagine a world where people don't buy any of those games.

I cant imagine most people on this board not owning these games.

 

[butts]

I just read this entire shitstorm of a thread and am quite a bit stupider for it.

I think one point that the side saying "who cares, a lot of people are homophobic" are forgetting is the fact that this dude is ACTIVELY campaigning and funding the anti-gay-rights movement. It is not just his opinion but his actions against those rights that people are mostly upset about. I can see the issue this would bring up with people and understand the unwillingness to purchase something that could (directly or indirectly) fund a movement that is taking rights away from a group of people. I think the OP's intention was just to bring this fact to light, which is totally legit.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I'll boycott this and use the money to buy some Freedom Fries.

 

[nincompoop]

I meant from a piracy standpoint, but okay.

It's not piracy though. MS is providing the demo for anyone to download.

 

[TitaniumGroceries]

Thanks to this thread, I am buying a copy of "Shadow Complex" for myself, and two for some friends.

 

[Asmodai]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

You aren't missing much by not reading his books.

Surprisingly enough, Ender's Game didn't have much of a heavy handed political slant to it. It was such a shallow story there wasn't really room for one.

It's not straight up right wing fantasizing like Children of Men or anything like that. Ender's Game is still a mediocre novel though, wouldn't recommend it. Children of Men is far less subtle but might actually have some thought provoking content in it.