MrCookiepants
Member
They wouldn't remake a game that didn't sell. Shadow was a very successful game. There were even talks of a movie being made.
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Shuhei Yoshida: Shadow of the Colossus On PS4 Is A Remake Not A Remaster
- Thread starter YoRHa No.2 Type B
- Start date
They wouldn't remake a game that didn't sell. Shadow was a very successful game. There were even talks of a movie being made.
How is it a bad remake?
If Shadow of the Colossus PS4 is a remake then is The Last of Us: Remastered a remake also? That improved textures, shadows and character models.
The Nathan Drake Collection did the same. Remake?
Did they remade the game? if the answer is no then it isn't.
Sounds like it in the OP.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
They better teach players about the grip meter in the remake then.
Well Shadow of the Colossus PS4 is improvements to things like textures, shadows and character models (in addition to other elements like geometry) built atop the Shadow of the Colossus we're familiar with. As such I'd argue it isn't being 'remade', but remastered, just to a greater degree than something like the Nathan Drake Collection.
Risk Breaker
Member
Oh but they did. Look at the details in this image, such as the car's wheels.
Are you really comparing that to this?
Apart from the obvious HUGE differences in EVERYTHING, there are different animations, different camera angles, different layout in the Shrine, etc.
Persona 4 Golden is an enhanced re-release with additional content. You could call it a remaster I guess. FFX and X-2 are remasters.
I guess the Pokemon remakes are remasters for you guys too?
No they only used higher assets that were already made in that game.
I see why people think another studio remaking most of the game means remake, but unless its a whole new engine its only a remaster as it builds on what came before. Remake means all new. The Animations are not all new. If they were the gameplay would change.
The character models are however new. So its only a quasi remake and in reality a remaster.
MrCookiepants
Member
You know game assets are scale-able? They're made at the highest quality and then tuned down as needed. It takes a couple clicks to upgrade those PS3 models and textures to look nicer on PS4. That's what a remaster is.
Shadow PS4 is using COMPLETELY NEW ASSETS MADE FROM SCRATCH. That's why it's a remake.
They did update certain scenes but it's largely the exact same game running on the exact same engine with original assets. They did not recreate the game from scratch.Oh but they did. Look at the details in this image, such as the car's wheels.
I think games like Ratchet and Clank PS4, Tomb Raider Anniversary and Resident Evil REmake fit the description of remake a lot better. Games that are remade, with the original being a guideline. The coming Final Fantasy 7 remake is an example of that.
The term remaster, however, is attached to improving the quality of audio and visuals of some release, and that fits SotC PS4 well. Taking the sound, textures, effects - the assets - and bringing them up to a modern day standard, not unlike re-recording instruments when remastering a song. This was the case with Modern Warfare: Remastered, for instance.
It's debatable of course, but that interpretation that makes the most sense to me.
Yes its confusing because if its built on shadow of the colossus PS3, its not a remake. Just a really good remaster thanks to all the work that went into it before.
If this was being made by any studio except bluepoint it would be a remake but its not.
The difficulty is that the gameplay is tied to the animations. If they were remaking the game today. They would talk about using animals for motion capture and ect. Building new things in the spirit of the old game. A new coat of paint on the same game is not a remake and yoshida is wrong. There probably will need to be a new word invented for this game.
Uncharted Collection is just like this game. They went back and remade all the textures for uncharted 1, but nobody calls that version of a game a remake. Its just a remaster. It has improved controls as well.
This is a semantics argument that doesn't actually work though.Macka said:
Many (most, arguably) sequels share 80-90% of their code with the predecessor. The qualification above would therefore dictate we consider sequels to be more "remasters" than new games.
More to the point, large parts (sometimes most) of the core-experiences in modern games tends to be in the "assets" rather than "code" as such. But regardless of where the % falls in a particular game, it's not a clearly defined line.
Which goes for asset-remaking as well for that matter - as even a completely remade art will sometimes opt to use source-asset here and there for homage or easter-eggs, so absolute claims will rarely hold in any case.
The "original vision on updated medium" is probably the best categorization of a remaster(audio re-sampling, resolution upgrades and occasional asset or gameplay touch-ups all fall into this), and anything that makes major changes to the said vision, clearly falls under remakes (be they good or bad) - and yes, I include Silent Hill HD under these (obviously the latter).
Risk Breaker
Member
FF7R is barely a remake. It's not even really the same genre anymore (action RPG as opposed to turn-based RPG).
lukeskymac
Member
I don't get why people are assuming that it's the same code as the PS3 remaster. I really don't.
Wolf Akela
Member
I'm going about the definitions laid out that I earlier quoted. There's no objective metric to differentiate remakes from remasters. You can redo all assets, end up with nearly the same looking game and we'd call it a remaster because of how it look. You can bump up the poly count, textures and it can still be just a remaster like of the million "HD Remasters" out there. You can update the gameplay and you can still ahve people debating whether it's a remaster or a remake.
How much more better does it have to look before it can become a remake? Does it ONLY have to look better? If someone modified the game's mechanics but still used the same visual assets, is it a remake? Remaster? Special Edition / Director's Cut?
I just feel that this debate is similar to "what is an FF game" or "what differentiates JRPGs from WRPGs?". The distinction blurred over time when technology got better that made jumps in graphics less obvious, and more games came out that blended genres.
Because when you put it side by side it looks the same in everything except textures and models. And its being made by the same studio as the remaster.
We're all looking at the same footage. If it was all new stuff it would move differently because its been remade. But it doesn't and moves identically to the old game.
It moves the same as the old game because it has too. A real remake would be to difficult. But the benefits of a remake would be the game plays all differently. This game is going to play the same because they're keeping the old codebase to faithfully remake the game by still remastering it.
lukeskymac
Member
So because the animation speeds are the same, the whole damn code is the same.
Got it.
Risk Breaker
Member
I think "a couple of assets per scene have improved textures" to "the entire world of the game, cutscenes, animations, etc have been remade from scratch using the original as reference" is an objective metric to differentiate P4G and SotC and point it out as a ridiculous and nonsensical comparison.
Also I'm not so sure why some people are so sure about how the game is going to play when all we have is a short trailer? And even if it played entirely the same, the game is still a remake, lol.
Is Oddworld PS4 considered a remaster? Nope. Is Shadow of the Beast PS4 considered a remaster? Nope.
Because it didn't add anything. It is just the older game prettier.
Good remakes are the ones like REmake and Metroid Zero Mission, that give people who already played the originals to death another reason to play.
Hell, even Mario 64 DS is a better remake than this one since it adds other characters even if the controls are weird
If they remade stuff it is a remake.
A bad remake, but still a remake
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Damn people. Arguing fiercly over semantics. It's what the developer calls it, end of story.
It's a remake, just like Crash.
Wolf Akela
Member
So where does KH1 HD fall into? You can technically call it a remake, but it was so faithfully done that it looks like what FFX HD did for the original: better textures, better models, higher res, some UI updates, same everything else. If Square didn't come out and say "hey we lost all the original assets and code so we rebuilt it from scratch" then no one would ever say it's a remake.
And true, we don't know if they're gonna add the scrapped colossi, or if they'll change anything at all (aside from the controls that was recently mentioned).
If this qualifies as a remake we dont need the word remaster. What would a remaster be then? Same game but higher res render target? Fucking lol, that is a 1 day change. A game with all assets and gameplay the same, just higher resolution and on a new console? That, my friends, is a port.
Popsickles
Member
I see it the same as a movie.
Clean it up, sane art with a bit of spit and polish, same story = remaster.
Tottaly new actors (character models) new director, new art, same story = remake
Simple
Clean it up, sane art with a bit of spit and polish, same story = remaster.
Tottaly new actors (character models) new director, new art, same story = remake
Simple
I know you're being sarcastic but that is actually the whole reason why there's debate after seeing the footage. People recognize the animations.
This is like a movie where the spirits of the original movie posses and take over the cast of the new movie to deliver the same lines.
Garrett Hawke
Member
except they haven't, they are clearly re-using animations and cutscenes at the very least.
https://gfycat.com/MagnificentWellwornKingsnake note that the camera animation is LITERALLY 1:1, down to the precise wiggle on the exact same frames.
they also appear to be re-using gameplay animations too, and I wouldn't be surprised if, upon release, it handles exactly the same way in the "old" control mode, which would mean that it definitely was using the old codebase.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, y'all. This thread is going nowhere fast (although it is admittedly entertaining, lol). We all clearly have different definitions of what constitutes a remake. Again, to me, Shadow of the Collossus is the same experience as the original, with only updated controls to separate it from the original. The graphics and audio may have been updated, but it's the same game underneath all that. A remake, to me, is a new game that takes inspiration from the original. SOTC is a remaster that seeks to improve upon the original experience rather than reimagine it, and therefore it's a remastering of that game, IMO.
Also, I gotta say that I'm personally not hyped for this at all right now. I mean, they already remastered this game last-gen, and sure, this arguably looks bettter, but it's the same game. The reason I think people are hyped for Crash is because it's been decades since those games were last released, and they haven't recieved any sort of update until now (I've never played them myself, which is why I'm excited for the N' Same Trilogy). It's only been a few years since the ICO collection on the other hand, and it's just the same damn thing again, but a little shinier. Very strange release, IMO. Meh...
Also, I gotta say that I'm personally not hyped for this at all right now. I mean, they already remastered this game last-gen, and sure, this arguably looks bettter, but it's the same game. The reason I think people are hyped for Crash is because it's been decades since those games were last released, and they haven't recieved any sort of update until now (I've never played them myself, which is why I'm excited for the N' Same Trilogy). It's only been a few years since the ICO collection on the other hand, and it's just the same damn thing again, but a little shinier. Very strange release, IMO. Meh...
Lol, nice.
That makes zero sense. Why would the studio dictate whether it's a remake when the same studio can remake they game if they choose.(The reason isn't typically done by the same studio is because they are either working or something else or don't want to work on as a project.
English definition of remake =
"to make again or anew"
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/remake
Only one wrong is you.
InsaneTiger
Member
Wow OP, you are a master level troll and so willing to die on your hill. Accusing devs of being lazy too? You're wrong.
Outside of ratchet and clank, studios rarely remake their own games, they only remaster them. I'm not wrong. Many people agree with me. And its clearly a debated issue.
The truth is it's not a full on remake, but its also not a minimalist remaster. But I argue because its using the same animation timings its most definitely a remaster and not a remake.
Jawbreaker
Member
Ueda is involved in some capacity, and the new controls are optional. There's nothing to be worried about there.
Risk Breaker
Member
As literally 1:1 as this https://youtu.be/AIQTYmSuHBg?t=7s
And I guess you are ignoring this shot entirely?
I played through it once ages ago and only listen to the OST now and then. I will get this day one.
Garrett Hawke
Member
"Ueda-san (ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, and the Last Guardian lead designer Fumito Ueda) wasnt that involved much this time" http://www.siliconera.com/2017/06/1...ifies-shadow-colossus-ps4-remake-not-remaster
doesn't sound like he had a very big role
Garrett Hawke
Member
em, no, not as literally 1:1 as that, because you can clearly see they are using different animations. on the right she looks to her left and right as she's walking, on the left she is looking straight ahead the whole time.
A remake, with Tomb Raider (2013) being a reboot/reimagining, I'd argue. Making SotC PS4 a high-quality remaster, just like Modern Warfare Remastered.