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[Noboru Wataya]

You've never heard racist or sexist remarks playing online games? For real?

You've never heard them in the real world? For real?

But in seriousness that isn't a gaming problem it's a human problem. People won't be saints, they never will be. I've heard more racism and sexism outside of video games. I've heard more in my work place than gaming.

 

[danm999]

Piedepie and PUBG are popular, not mainstream. Try and remember how many billion people there are in the world when you throw about subscriber numbers and player counts.

There also aren't billions of people on Tinder. It skews to millenials with internet access in developed nations.

 

[Sarobi]

Video game software is cool.
The people who play them are definitely not.

 

[*Splinter]

I don't think gamers are seen as Nazis, except by other gamers.

Why is it uncool?

"Hi I'm Splinter I spend my free time alone in a darkened room"

Something like that, although it's definitely more accepted than it used to be.

 

[King of Custard]

I honestly didn't know it still was, I regularly talk about games with colleagues at work and my friends and family game with me all the time.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Well many games offer the opportunity to spend thousands of hours perfecting 'skills' that often are not useful outside of that game, not even in other games. For some people that sure as hell sounds as waste of time.

I doubt this is what the average non-gamer's view of video games looks like. Pac-Man doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get a good grasp of. Is Dota 2 or Pac-Man more likely to be the "default" video game in people's minds?

 

[Noboru Wataya]

There also aren't billions of people on Tinder. It skews to millenials with internet access in developed nations.

I would love to see a Venn diagram of female users on tinder who do and do not follow/understand the plight of the modern #gamer scene.

Although we don't have that information at hand I will safely assume the average girl with a mobile phone in these developed nations doesn't know nor care.

 

[danm999]

Of course I have! But most of my time gaming consists of relaxing, meditative single player experiences. I'm sure this is true of many others in the world as well. To suggest those racist and sexist behaviors are (or should be) indicative of all gaming culture, as has been insinuated ITT, is offensive and reductionist to say the least. Wouldn't you agree?

They should not be, absolutely agree, but gaming has a habit of frequently presenting its worst face to mainstream audiences, whether it's GamerGate, Palmer Lucky, PDP, etc.

I mean watch the shitty, awful episode of Law & Order about gamergate. Is it at all representative of the entirety of gaming culture, game development, etc? Nope.

Is it the "ripped from the headlines" mainstream reflection of online gaming culture? Yup.

Hence the stigma.

You've never heard them in the real world? For real?

But in seriousness that isn't a gaming problem it's a human problem. People won't be saints, they never will be. I've heard more racism and sexism outside of video games. I've heard more in my work place than gaming.

I mean, this is kind of a silly argument in context, no? We're talking about why people don't want to date people who self identify as gamers, not that it's a problem unique to gamers.

Put up a Tinder profile that demonstrates you're a racist and/or bigot, but not a gamer, and you'll still have the same problem.

Doesn't fix the problems the label "gamer" has attracted, or why lots of people don't respect the hobby.

 

[shouamabane]

Gaming is such a mainstream hobby at this point yet it still feels like there's many people still have a stuck idea of what kind of person a gamer is and what implications gaming has. In some cases those same people are playing cellphone games – which is gaming. Why do people hold these kind of judgements?

Prejudice and stereotypes are just how peoples brains work. We categorize everything, including types of people.

 

[danm999]

I would love to see a Venn diagram of female users on tinder who do and do not follow/understand the plight of the modern #gamer scene.

Although we don't have that information at hand I will safely assume the average girl with a mobile phone in these developed nations doesn't know nor care.

I'm guessing they're using most common forms of social media; Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, etc, which people self identifying as gamers do not come across very well on.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

I mean, this is kind of a silly argument in context, no? We're talking about why people don't want to date people who self identify as gamers, not that it's a problem unique to gamers.

Put up a Tinder profile that demonstrates you're a racist and/or bigot, but not a gamer, and you'll still have the same problem.

Doesn't fix the problems the label "gamer" has attracted, or why lots of people don't respect the hobby.

I agree it is a bit of a silly argument. I don't know much about the gaming scene apart from what I see on GAF and YouTube, I don't frequent twitch.

I'm from Ireland, so all I can speak on is my own experiences in this country. The gaming scene at my local game shops are flooded with awkward teens, kids and people who (no disrespect) are not well. This is not a place I would make a friend.

Although, I find it seriously hard to believe that anyone would think, gamer = Hitler youth

Due to the fact many people I've met that have no link to gaming are unknowingly racist, sexist, and flat out ignorant. So if many people don't know when they are out of order, why would they assume gamers are. The twitch/YouTube comment crowds have not penitrated into the mainstream enough to make that instant connection.

Not in my opinion at least. Without facts that's all we have, which in turn makes the entire argument moot.

By the way I'm not trying to piss off at anyone all friends here!

 

[Sweet Bellic]

I mean watch the shitty, awful episode of Law & Order about gamergate. Is it at all representative of the entirety of gaming culture, game development, etc? Nope.

Is it the "ripped from the headlines" mainstream reflection of online gaming culture? Yup.

Hence the stigma.

Jesus, it's hard to believe gamergate was addressed on Law & Order of all places. Based on my own, admittedly anecdotal, experiences of girls on tinder, it's still hard for me to accept that stuff like gamergate is common knowledge. But that's pretty damn embarrassing, even if we can agree it doesn't represent gaming culture as a whole.

 

[Widge]

I've edited out the part about tinder. This thread was getting really off topic, all I was looking to discuss was why there are still judgements about gamers/gaming.

Gaming has an identity that it is incredibly reluctant to shed. The community has by and large decided what gaming is, what it is about, and there has become a general herd of identity about it.

Anything that comes in that remotely challenges it is quickly stomped down. Forgetting things like Wii being the best selling console of the previous gen. Consistently posing questions like "when is mobile gaming going to be good". There is a huuuuge gatekeeper attitude to it which looks like absolutely shit on a stick for outsiders. It does a fantastic job of making itself so utterly uninviting to those not willing to completely submit to the tropes of the culture.

So utterly deflating when any concept of diversity seems to get absolutely shat upon.

 

[MilkyJoe]

You've never heard racist or sexist remarks playing online games? For real?

The only online multiplayer game I've played with voice chat was BF4. I never heard any racism or sexism or any bullying of any type, in the whole time I played that.

Plenty of spawn camping though.

 

[MattKeil]

I mean she probably dated a guy previously who ignored her in favor of playing COD or something and she doesn't want to deal with that again. It doesn't really reflect on stereotypes or the prevalence of toxic gamer behavior in mainstream media depictions. She's a person with experiences and preferences, not a cultural trend personified.

 

[bchan555]

Every time I walk into the Gamestop near my place there's usually some guy awkwardly trying to have a conversation with the cashier about what games are coming out/what games he thinks are good/asking the cashier what games he plays. Not in a "I'm looking for information" way. No, it's the full on "I have nowhere to be and nobody to talk to and you're trapped -- so let's talk about GAMEZ!" sort of way.

You can tell the cashier is being polite because it's his job and he doesn't want to scare off a customer. You can also tell there are 1019230812039 other places he'd rather be than chatting with some dude who he doesn't know or care about.

You see the same type of person in comic book stores a lot too. Just because someone shares your interest it DOESN'T MEAN they are just gonna chat with you about anything at any time. To them, you're just a stranger.

People who game are often normal people, and not part of some sort of tribe like some 'hardcore gamers' like to think.

It's people like this that make everyone look bad. Incredible passion for video games. 0 social skills/inability to pick up on social cues. 100% weirdo.

Non-gamers will lose the stereotype once enough of us act like normal people. Still too many 'gamers' keeping the stereotype going strong.

 

[Ushojax]

1. Because games are primarily aimed at children

2. Neckbeard culture

 

[Randomizer123454444]

Gaming has a bad stereotype because whenever people hear about gaming, it's all bad things:
- Someone gets addicted to it and bad things happen
- Your kid refuses to stop playing
- "Gamers" are angry at someone (according to media)
- And then there is the "neckbeard" stereotype as poster above me said

And once they do get to play, they are met with the "nice and friendly" general chat. You know exactly what I mean.

For gaming to get a better image, people need to see all the good things it can bring instead of just the bad things. It's something we all need to work on.

 

[Elephant]

Films, clothes, brands, music etc. All of these things have an "uncool" side to them.

Gaming is now at the point where the culture isn't "uncool" itself, but the individual games, genres and systems could be considered to be so.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

Non-gamers will lose the stereotype once enough of us act like normal people. Still too many 'gamers' keeping the stereotype going strong.

Gaming being an isolated hobby of escapism attracts the "weirdo". This won't change.

People with self esteem issues, image problems, social illnesses, lack of self awareness, people that don't feel accepted in society.

You give them a screen name, an avatar of a hero with a big sword and a scar down their eye. They happen to be great at a game. Now you have a recipe for disaster. This person has voice chat, they're the king of their castle. This is their arena. They are better than everyone else. Until they get beat, now you have hateful vile shit being spewed by them and the trolls they argue with.

You don't really get that through music, movies, comics. The competitive nature of the gaming scene welcomes these kind of people.

These are not the majority of gamers, but they and the trolls they face are defiantly the most vocal.

Edit: then you mix female gamers into that insanity. You know we're that goes...

 

[Monkeyball]

Because the stigma is that nerdy boys and neckbeard manchildren are gamers. And a lot of them are so...

 

[opoth]

PDP, Gamergate, take a whiff of the guy in front of you at PAX East or your next Gamestop midnight opening - that should about cover it.

 

[BGBW]

It's because Japan makes most of the popular big names in games. Gaming doesn't have the same high culture excuse other mediums have - foreigness.

Want to sound high culture with movies - watch world cinema (is also why even anime is cooler than videogames)
Want to sound high culture with music - listen to opera in a language you don't understand
Want to sound high culture with tabletop games (that's right, even the DnD dweebs have it better) - play Go.

Super Mario is keeping us down!

 

[Sändersson]

Have you seen pewdiepie?

 

[emperor_ing]

For me the word "gamer" conjures up images of teenagers playing CoD badmouthing people on a Twitch stream. So I'd say these days it's used to describe a certain group of people.

I like and play video games, but I wouldn't call myself a "gamer".

 

[JABEE]

yeah like if somebody enjoyed gardening alot and would identify and start conversations with, "i'm a hardcore planter", you'd probably think they're an insane person

I would probably say they were a serious gardener.

For films, I would say that person is a big film buff or a fan.

The same applies to video games.

I feel like most people's impressions or image of games and the people who play them are Mario games, male dominated arcades, and hobbyist computer nerds who happened to play video games on these gadgets.

The image is changing. More people associate gaming with Call of Duty, sports titles, and Minecraft.

They don't associate gaming with their phone. It seems more like Facebook etc. They aren't doing a kids thing or a nerd thing, because it's so simple and it's on their sophisticated, business device.

The toxicity of the gaming community is really only of interest to dedicated followers of the culture surrounding internet chat boards and social media.

Most people see gaming as a thing kids do or they did when they were a kid. Their reaction to toxicity on stuff like voice chat is to assume they are dealing with a 12 year old kid who would make phony phone calls in a past generation.

It takes more and more people of the younger generation, maybe PlayStation and beyond, graduating to higher levels to change the overall perception of games.

Also, things like pop music only started to get taken seriously as art when you had media like the Rolling Stone treat the musicians like they were amazing talents. People knew the faces of music and understood their worth. They saw the craft of what it took to make the stuff and not just the screaming kids who consumed it. Pop art influenced regular culture in the same way video games have already been doing for awhile.

Also, nothing really makes a hobby that cool. Music nerds aren't cool. The musicians are cool. I think you're asking for the hobby to be normalized and accepted by everyone. I think you are slowly seeing it and the acceptance of technology and social media is part of that. Less social pastimes are becoming less and less weird.

Music had school dances, social concerts, and band class.
Movies had theaters where you can take your date.
Games used to have arcades, but they died and were replaced by your own device with your own screen, and your own controller, in your own house. Also, the barrier to entry is higher for a social event.

Movies and music are trending towards games with personal music listening and video streaming services with personalized content.

 

[hanspampel]

Because there are cooler hobbies
This will never change

 

[Noboru Wataya]

I searched google and google images for the word Gamerz... I've never felt older and more out of touch with my hobby.

This is not what I think of when I consider myself a gamer.

 

[DVCY201]

Mainstream doesn't mean anything, just that more people are aware of the stereotype

 

[Cow Mengde]

It's image has only gotten worse in recent years. As everyone already pointed out the toxic shit, but it's also game developers being insecure and having these "is it art" argument. Some developers try to be edgey and pushing things, but more often than not, it's incredibly childish.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

Mainstream doesn't mean anything, just that more people are aware of the stereotype

But we were talking about the awareness of the stereotype at large. So in that conversation, it had meaning.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Because people who identify as gamer just can't shut up about it. You play a lot of games, fine. But I don't have to hear about it endlessly in real life.

Yes, a ton of people play games. But the ones that will say they are a "gamer" act a bit too much like their whole life revolves around it.

 

[Isotropy]

On the other hand, being a gamer has been incorporated into a sort of pseudo-nerdy umbrella that is one of the gay community's many sexual framings. "Weights, buds, games", that sort of cringey thing.

 

[DVCY201]

But we were talking about the awareness of the stereotype at large. So in that conversation, it had meaning.

Ah, yea. I guess I should've clarified to something more along the lines of "mainstream doesn't automatically remove negative stereotypes". A quick and dirty example is anime. It's gotten far more public attention and has reached a mainstream audience more than ever before (thanks AoT), yet you'll be hard-pressed to escape the negative connotations associated with it, even here on GAF.

Want to sound high culture with movies - watch world cinema (is also why even anime is cooler than videogames)

No way. There's even been multiple threads on GAF about how people with anime avatars are all alt-right.

 

[Aters]

I don't know what's uncool about gaming. Everyone I know from the same age plays games.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Video games are very much an inactive hobby.

Plus the above mentioned reasons.

 

[Murkas]

Image/neckbeard nerd problem.

Your average non-gamer goes into a game store once or twice a year to buy a gift for someone and sees the average gamer. Personal hygiene issues/greasy unkempt hair galore. Like it's been a while since I entered a game store but every single one always stank. That doesn't help the image. Then they'll probably see a sign for a midnight launch of a game/console and they'll assume "don't these people have jobs, seriously lining up at midnight for Marios" etc.

Then the act itself, sitting in a room, pressing buttons and yelling on a headset (which TV will perpetuate that image) will push the stigma further.

Gamers are a seriously uncool bunch of people and there is a stigma. There's definitely stuff that even I'll back off and think "is this what gamers are?" One example of my head is the 2 year Iwata death thread, filled with responses like "seriously can't stop crying right now", grown adults crying over a corporate leader who died years ago, yes, he was lovable in those streams but surely this isn't normal, don't mean to shit on Iwata's memory but when me and my friends heard about his death, we were just like "oh that fucking sucks" and that was about the end of it, we couldn't comprehend the people actually crying over it. I thought video gamers were just a hobby, but to many people, it's something more, which the average non gamer can probably pick up on.

How to fix this? I don't know, be a better gamer I suppose. Friendly, inviting, sociable, groomed, freshly showered (no abusing deodorant as a replacement) , be in decent shape.

 

[Haly]

Gamers consistently embarrass themselves in public (and private) and make it worse for the rest of us.

 

[Plum]

Gamers are a seriously uncool bunch of people and there is a stigma. There's definitely stuff that even I'll back off and think "is this what gamers are?" One example of my head is the 2 year Iwata death thread, filled with responses like "seriously can't stop crying right now", grown adults crying over a corporate leader who died years ago, yes, he was lovable in those streams but surely this isn't normal, don't mean to shit on Iwata's memory but when me and my friends heard about his death, we were just like "oh that fucking sucks" and that was about the end of it, we couldn't comprehend the people actually crying over it.

You must have hated the reaction to Steve Jobs' death.

But seriously, using some people feeling bad over the death of a beloved figure in their favourite hobby as an example for why gaming is "not cool" is ridiculous.

 

[JABEE]

Also, music scenes have been toxically sexist and often vile, yet they were still "cool" to people.

Heavy Metal, Hip-Hop, and Stadium rock had some of the sleaziest, ugliest, retrospectively embarrassing, sometimes racist content said in popular works, yet people weren't saying those things were uncool at the time.

Watch Rise and Fall of Western Civilization II and see how scenes can be toxic.

And these are just specific genres of music. It also took someone pointing it out and reflection to realize it wasn't cool, so most people moved onto another genre or outgrew going to clubs. We will see the same thing with games. We are already seeing it.

Hip-Hop is still cool and a lot of old people still don't appreciate its artistry.

All these hobbies are built around dancing, socializing, etc.

People are more aware and critical of loser-ish, seemingly anti-social activities like video games, collecting figurines. Society-at-large, or anyone you talk to over the age of 40, laughs at people who haven't grown out of the Mario thing they bought their 7 year old son for Christmas.

Edit: Also, I just want to make sure I'm clear. Racism and Sexism did hurt the health of those genres and the genres either matured or disappeared. They incorporated more people and became more mainstream or died off because of their image of excess and debauchery. Groupie culture and trashing hotels only gets you so far as someone looking at the stadium rock scenes of the 70s and 80s. I still think associating with those scenes was never as openly mocked as someone who plays games as an adult.

 

[Cepheus]

Because of the association with racism/sexism it has now.

 

[JABEE]

Image/neckbeard nerd problem.

Your average non-gamer goes into a game store once or twice a year to buy a gift for someone and sees the average gamer. Personal hygiene issues/greasy unkempt hair galore. Like it's been a while since I entered a game store but every single one always stank. That doesn't help the image. Then they'll probably see a sign for a midnight launch of a game/console and they'll assume "don't these people have jobs, seriously lining up at midnight for Marios" etc.

Then the act itself, sitting in a room, pressing buttons and yelling on a headset (which TV will perpetuate that image) will push the stigma further.

Gamers are a seriously uncool bunch of people and there is a stigma. There's definitely stuff that even I'll back off and think "is this what gamers are?" One example of my head is the 2 year Iwata death thread, filled with responses like "seriously can't stop crying right now", grown adults crying over a corporate leader who died years ago, yes, he was lovable in those streams but surely this isn't normal, don't mean to shit on Iwata's memory but when me and my friends heard about his death, we were just like "oh that fucking sucks" and that was about the end of it, we couldn't comprehend the people actually crying over it. I thought video gamers were just a hobby, but to many people, it's something more, which the average non gamer can probably pick up on.

How to fix this? I don't know, be a better gamer I suppose. Friendly, inviting, sociable, groomed, freshly showered (no abusing deodorant as a replacement) , be in decent shape.

I feel like a lot of the things you mention are becoming socially accepted with phones.

Midnight launches for the new iPhone.

Netflix binging, Skype, Fantasy Football and Social Media Addiction.

Eulogizing Steve Jobs.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

One example of my head is the 2 year Iwata death thread, filled with responses like "seriously can't stop crying right now", grown adults crying over a corporate leader who died years ago, yes, he was lovable in those streams but surely this isn't normal, don't mean to shit on Iwata's memory but when me and my friends heard about his death, we were just like "oh that fucking sucks" and that was about the end of it, we couldn't comprehend the people actually crying over it.

I was about to agree with this, as I too wondered why are people physically crying over of a cute business mans passing. Then as I was quoting you I remember how I shed tears when I found out that Ryan Davis from Giantbomb.com passed. I felt daft at the time as I didn't know the man in real life. That was the first and last time I felt such strong empathy through media.

So I can sort of understand people being sad over this. Especially since he was a front man for Nintendo so he had a social presence.

 

[Shaanyboi]

You've never heard them in the real world? For real?

But in seriousness that isn't a gaming problem it's a human problem. People won't be saints, they never will be. I've heard more racism and sexism outside of video games. I've heard more in my work place than gaming.

Every time I fucking hear this, I roll my eyes. This isn't about humanity at large, it's about the attitudes that exist within our circle.

If I go out for the day, guess how many racist, sexist, homophobic, or generally toxic comments do you think I hear screamed at the top of peoples' lungs the way you hear this shit online? If you're going to suggest that they are even remotely comparable numbers, that's a damn joke.

 

[Jombie]

It'll always be associated with lack of productivity.

 

[opoth]

Every hobby is always going to have it's most extreme examples that will serve to bring negative public visibility to it, and unfortunately gaming has pretty low lows on either end of the spectrum, whether it's aggressive abuse/racism over voice chat on one end or being so sensitive that you're inconsolable about Iwata 2 years after his death.

I think it all boils down to people not living a life with multiple interests/hobbies to balance things out. Gaming gets a bad rap because there's no perceived upside to dedication to the hobby - ie. If you're a dedicated gym rat, at leaat your hobby is going to manifest itself in a more visible benefit.

 

[UrbanRats]

Because of the association with racism/sexism it has now.

I think it's more the association with being a dork, still.

There are plenty of things that are associated with racism and sexism, but aren't seen in the same uncool fanshion.

That said, it certainly doesn't do gaming any favors.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Why do you care OP? Like you said, it's 2017. Anyone that makes sweeping generalizations about someone or their character just cause a person is into gaming, they're automatically shitty and their opinion is worthless.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Gaming for me is just a hobby like photography.
Nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

Every time I fucking hear this, I roll my eyes. This isn't about humanity at large, it's about the attitudes that exist within our circle.

If I go out for the day, guess how many racist, sexist, homophobic, or generally toxic comments do you think I hear screamed at the top of peoples' lungs the way you hear this shit online? If you're going to suggest that they are even remotely comparable numbers, that's a damn joke.

I wish I lived in your world were the only toxicity you can't stand is mostly in your online games and forums.

Edit to sound less of a smart ass: What I mean is the world is filled with horrible people, everywhere, everyday. You choose who you socialise with, you avoid assholes. This is something you can do online too, but people chose not to. You have party chat, you have mute and block, you have the ability to disable chat and comments from twitch and YouTube. I chose to play online with ransoms with no headset on, I don't need to make friends with strangers, nor do I owe it to anyone to "corordinate my tactics". I avoid toxic communities like Dota and counter strike. I have thousands of other games out there.

Again sorry for being a smart ass but I hate this idea that the gaming community is the only place where assholes live.