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[TheOGB]

That's...a lot of hidden springs.

Weird, it's almost as if they wouldn't need that spring if they didn't put spikes in the exact spot Sonic would land if he just jumped 🤔

(Seriously though, that there are any hidden springs in a classic level like this is already questionable; that they're being used in this way is worrisome, to say the least)


Like, why is there a rock right in front of the bridge at 0:14?? What purpose does that serve?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Yeah, and the sad part about all this is that Lost World, while pretty trash, had a core of potentially good design if they worked on it. And all without being Boost Sonic or super janky Adventure design.

Like the Adventure style before it, it was abandoned far too early with a lot of room for improvement. Thanks to the tepid response, they'll likely never touch it again. It's like they forgot Unleashed had a similar response. But once they committed to it, it became the polished mainstay of 3D Sonic as we know it. Unfortunately, it's long grown stale. 6 years after Generations, people don't want more of the same shit.

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

I never got why people would say "Sonic should be like the classics!" when the classics themselves were hardly uniform in gameplay focus.

Probably because the definitions you're using to constitute radical changes between the games are perhaps far more liberal than anyone else.

Mario 3 and Mario World both share a different amount of changes from each other in their game mechanics and design philosophies; as do Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2. None of them though are drastic enough for the majority of people to say Mario 3 is a completely different game to Mario World; or that Galaxy 2 is nothing like Galaxy 1.

If each of the Genesis games really were as vastly different as you say, people wouldn't be referring to all four/five of them as a collective group that are distinct from later Sonic games to begin with. If anything, initial reviews to Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles at the time of their release had critics complaining they were too similar to the older titles and weren't fresh enough.

 

[Sciz]

Like, why is there a rock right in front of the bridge at 0:14?? What purpose does that serve?

That rock has been there since 1991.

I assume the intent is to kill the momentum of an unwary player so they don't run straight into a fish again, but you'd have to ask Yasuhara.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

Sometimes a rock is just a rock.

 

[pixelation]

I like what i see, i don't like what i hear... please have the classic track available as an unlockable/alternate/DLC whatever... the track on the video is not good enough to replace it.

 

[Nanashrew]

That rock has been there since 1991.

I assume the intent is to kill the momentum of an unwary player so they don't run straight into a fish again, but you'd have to ask Yasuhara.

Essentially. And even before that you have a bit of a ramp that slows you down, a half pipe and ledges, all of which you can avoid if you're really good at the game to maintain speed.

There are rocks in several key locations in the the level to stop your momentum for new players but can also be used by veteran players and speed runners: You have 1 before the bridge to not get hit by the fish, 1 before a taller ledge so you can use it as an alternative way to get up, and another at the edge of a cliff, 1 before another bridge and just before a tall ledge again in case you want to climb back up the other way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6tSowlt7E4

Green Hill Zone, despite how basic it was in Sonic 1, taught you a lot about the environment, the obstacles and how to use them all before even getting to stage 2 of Green Hill Zone.

 

[Theorymon]

2. The promotion of Yuji Naka as director of the series. As much credit as Naka deserves for his amazing physics code, based on everything I've read he really ddin't have the creative vision for this role and was too focused on self gain. After Sonic 2 was made in the USA he demanded Sega make the next game in Japan with Japanese only staff, and then he was tired of Sonic after only 2 games and wanted to radically change the series into something else. Pretty much the only reason we got Sonic 3 was because his original ideas for Sonic 3 failed to produce results and Sega demanded a game by the holidays. So the mentality of throwing the hedgehog out with the bathwater comes from him.

Bit off topic, but is there any info about this failed Sonic 3? I know ALL about Yuji Naka being a drama queen (such as that incident where he threw a shitfit over parts of Sonic Xtreeme using the Nights Engine), but I never heard this one before, I'm curious now!

 

[yung alimony]

It looks alright gameplay-wise. What's off-putting for me is the total blandness of the assets. The character models, for both Sonic and the enemies, looks vapid and uninspired (I don't know how, it just felt that way for me), and the bright colors of the scenery lacks any eye-popping contrast whatsoever. Hopefully they'll make improvements on the designs. Just my $0.02

 

[Finalow]

"Green Hill again? Booo", the issue isn't exactly Green Hill zone being in the game (nor it should be an issue to being with) but how it looks and feels. can't say I liked what I saw as far as level design goes

the music is just terrible.

good news though, even if this one ends up sucking we still have one great-looking and very promising sonic game to play this year.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Bit off topic, but is there any info about this failed Sonic 3? I know ALL about Yuji Naka being a drama queen (such as that incident where he threw a shitfit over parts of Sonic Xtreeme using the Nights Engine), but I never heard this one before, I'm curious now!

I heard something once about Sonic 3 initially being conceptualized as an isometric 3D platformer (a la 3D Blast), maybe that's what they're referring to. Glad that didn't pan out.

 

[Zubz]

the music is just terrible.

Again, I actually appreciate it if the point is that the music is supposed to be off. Which it very well may be.

If that's their genuine attempt at a Green Hill theme, though...

 

[RagnarokX]

Bit off topic, but is there any info about this failed Sonic 3? I know ALL about Yuji Naka being a drama queen (such as that incident where he threw a shitfit over parts of Sonic Xtreeme using the Nights Engine), but I never heard this one before, I'm curious now!

It never really got past the planning phase. Naka wanted to use a new chip Sega was working on to make Sonic 3 an isometric 3D game but Sega demanded they make a game before the chip would be ready.

 

[Professor Beef]

It never really got past the planning phase. Naka wanted to use a new chip Sega was working on to make Sonic 3 an isometric 3D game but Sega demanded they make a game before the chip would be ready.

If this were 5 years ago, I'd be surprised. But knowing now what I know about Sega's early years, nothing shocks me.

 

[Theorymon]

I heard something once about Sonic 3 initially being conceptualized as an isometric 3D platformer (a la 3D Blast), maybe that's what they're referring to. Glad that didn't pan out.

It never really got past the planning phase. Naka wanted to use a new chip Sega was working on to make Sonic 3 an isometric 3D game but Sega demanded they make a game before the chip would be ready.

Holy crap I'm glad that didn't pan out, that would have been a mess!

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

It never really got past the planning phase. Naka wanted to use a new chip Sega was working on to make Sonic 3 an isometric 3D game but Sega demanded they make a game before the chip would be ready.

Isn't this basically 3D Blast?

 

[RagnarokX]

Isn't this basically 3D Blast?

Coincidentally, 3D Blast doesn't use the chip Naka wanted to use, either. Let's just be thankful Sega delayed the death of classic Sonic by a year with their deadline and we got the best game in the series out of it.

 

[Ritzboof]

Looks...off. Like fan-made.

i felt this exact thing when i was watching this and flipped through a few replies to see if other people felt a little weird about it. looks like this is offputting for a lot of people. its generally well received judging by the like bar, but it really does feel off. among other things, theres a weird juxtaposition between the clean, detailed graphics / 60fps and how rigid and the opposite of dynamic the gameplay feels. if the camera would just sway a little bit, things would look so much better. animations could also stand to not be worse than the original sonic the hedgehog

its a shame, though. the first thought that came to mind was sammyclassicsonicfans dream of a 3D environment classic sonic game. so close, yet so far. im sure hes shaking his head in disappointment. maybe things will look better down the line, though

 

[Fahzgoolin]

The music sounded distracting, in a bad way.

 

[Jhn]

This both looks and sounds off. Save us, Mania.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Wait, are there 3 Sonic games in development or something? I know Sonic Mania, and there was a recently unveiled 3D Sonic game that looks similar to Sonic Adventures. What the heck is Sonic Forces?

 

[Luigiv]

Wait, are there 3 Sonic games in development or something? I know Sonic Mania, and there was a recently unveiled 3D Sonic game that looks similar to Sonic Adventures. What the heck is Sonic Forces?

The two are one in the same. The game is really more of like generations than adventure though.

 

[Teknoman]

I want answers for that choice of music.

 

[Zelias]

The hell is that music.

Also stop using GHZ, at least give us Emerald Hill or something.

 

[FLAguy954]

#DeathtoGreenHill

At least give us Emerald Hill

.

 

[Cow Mengde]

The two are one in the same. The game is really more of like generations than adventure though.

Oh... I thought it was a 3D sonic game from the trailer. Wow, I need to rewatch it. I totally got the game wrong.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

Oh... I thought it was a 3D sonic game from the trailer. Wow, I need to rewatch it. I totally got the game wrong.

It is. Modern Sonic is 3D and Classic Sonic is 2.5D.

 

[ezodagrom]

Oh... I thought it was a 3D sonic game from the trailer. Wow, I need to rewatch it. I totally got the game wrong.

It's a 3 styles in 1 kind of game, 3D + 2D mixed stages for modern Sonic, 2D stages for classic Sonic, and unknown stages for unknown character.

 

[Sacul64GC]

A few things.

-Music sounds horrible, not because of the sound quality but it sounds NOTHING like Green Hill. I know SEGA has to pay to use Sonic 1/Sonic 2 music tracks, so it's a shame they were cheap enough not bother paying the licensing fee to play Green Hill. Even a 8-bit remix of Windy Hill or Seaside Hill would have been better. They paid for the fee to use the track in Sonic Mania (and likely other fees to use Sonic 2 zones too), so it screams 'We don't care' the track not having a proper remix in forces.
-Level design looks lazy and nothing like Classic from Generations. Sure, he felt 'off' in Gens but at least the level design still had the 'spirit' of the classic games. Here, it feels like it was thrown together. The strange spring and booster placement shows this quite clearly.
-Visuals look great for both Sonic and the level itself. I had a feeling the Nintendo Direct footage was the Switch build running and this gameplay video proves that; this seems to be running on PC's or PS4/Xbox One. So the level has a high resolution, great coloring and looks great. The fact it 'seemingly' runs at 60 makes it even better.
-Sonic himself and the stage/objects/etc look 'Classic' like, which is great honestly. Love the touch of Green Hill losing it's water and it being covered with sand. Hopeful they can expand the level (if there is an act two) to use the sand in a creative way to make the stage stand out.

I remember hearing about sega having problems with Green Hill music but for the life of me I cant find a source for that.

 

[Chemist]

Man i can't get behind that music. And something about the grass is too...much. Like a LOT of movement. Other than that the gameplay looks ok.

 

[Pizza]

It looks fine for a sequel to generations, I guess. My biggest complaint is that the level is too wide (if that makes sense)

Like every moving or crumbling platform seems to be about twice as wide as really necessary, and that problem extends to the whole level outside the chutes (which also look sort of weird)

It seems weirdly intentional though, so I really don't know.

The green on brown on tan background isn't effective though :/ like from an art design standpoint it blends together in the footage I've seen. Making the sky hazy pink or something could have helped the earth tones pop, but as is it just looks like a weird unfinished version of any other green hill we've seen.

Mania is the sonic game I've always wanted, so forces can go ahead and be a stealth bubsy sequel.

 

[SoulUnison]

I don't know if anyone posted this in the thread, but the official Sonic channel has revealed that this is Green Hill in the modern day, and it's supposed to look dead and abandoned as a result of Eggman's industries.
You'd think all the plant life and vegetation would be more withered and dead if that was the case...

This is a super solid and workable concept, but it's like they chickened out and/or half-assed it to death.

The water is now brown, and the background is rather barren and dried up, but both of these weren't even particularly noticeable details until I'd watch the clip a few times and had the thematic shift pointed out to me.
Meanwhile, the foreground is just a green and verdant as ever, and they seem to have even gone overboard in adding movement and density to the grass since Generations, so Green Hill actually seems somehow Greener.

 

[MrBadger]

This is a super solid and workable concept, but it's like they chickened out and/or half-assed it to death.

The water is now brown, and the background is rather barren and dried up, but both of these weren't even particularly noticeable details until I'd watch the clip a few times and had the thematic shift pointed out to me.
Meanwhile, the foreground is just a green and verdant as ever, and they seem to have even gone overboard in adding movement and density to the grass since Generations, so Green Hill actually seems somehow Greener.

They definitely should have gone further. Maybe just have it look like this barren, dead desert which Sonic doesn't even recognise as Green Hill Zone at first, then it could be used as a wham moment in the narrative when he discovers where he actually is.

As it stands, it just feels like more nostalgia pandering, because Sega is simply incapable of having Classic Sonic without nostalgia pandering. As if they think that's the only reason people like him.

I want answers for that choice of music.

Ever play Sonic 4 Episode 2?