The modern gameplay while it looks worse than generations is not what i'm talking about
Classic sonic
The avatar levels
And the duo levels
Look like strait doo doo and if they are
that's 3/4ths of the game
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sonic Forces : Story Trailer
- Thread starter Atrarock
- Start date
The modern gameplay while it looks worse than generations is not what i'm talking about
Classic sonic
The avatar levels
And the duo levels
Look like strait doo doo and if they are
that's 3/4ths of the game
Thank god there are people who actually think the duo levels are the more interesting of the bunch shown so far -- even more than Modern, yeah!
And honestly, I know Classic Sonic isn't a carbon copy of 2D Sonic/Mania, but jesus, you guys make it seem like playing it is some sort of horrible sin against humanity. The thing at least works, has its own set of physics (that isn't completely broken like Sonic 4's) and makes for a decent break from all the boosting madness. Sure, it's fodder, but it's better fodder than mashing the attack button with the werehog or, god forbid, playing all those crappy friends from the Adventure games. I know Big and Amy take 30 minutes each to complete, but those are some 30 minutes no one should have to experience in their lives.
And we don't talk about the mech levels from SA2.
In other news, though. Are we getting another song as good as Team Chaotix's from Heroes? I need in my blood. Right now.
I'm really bummed out tbh.
I don't think Sonic games need this much story and the stages look bland. Gonna have to wait for impressions which I fear won't be good.
Don't understand why they wouldn't go with what worked in Generations and not take steps back from it. Hell, they could've just fix all the bad they had in Lost World.
I don't think Sonic games need this much story and the stages look bland. Gonna have to wait for impressions which I fear won't be good.
Don't understand why they wouldn't go with what worked in Generations and not take steps back from it. Hell, they could've just fix all the bad they had in Lost World.
Again, like, I have enjoyed most every 2D sonic game and am just failing to see how the classic stuff looks that bad. Hell, if you think this looks shitty, I'd hate to hear what you thought of the games most consider 'bad' like Sonic 4 or Sonic 06.
Why does this have to be so edgy? Why can't they just make it simple? Something like Sonic Utopia with a bit more depth would be great.
IMO what Sonic should be:
--Characters--
Good: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy
Bad: Doctor Eggman
--Story--
Dr. Eggman wants to build a giant amusement park and enslave the forest animals to work there cuz he's crazy, so you go stop him.
No humans, if you're gonna have humans keep them to a minimum, and make them an NPC with a point. Also keep em cartoonish.
--Gameplay--
--Development--
This is the most important, spend more than a year or 1.5 years lol. Keep it in the oven for a little while. Like JEEEEEEEESUS SEGA. Try 3 years or something. Y'all don't need to shit out a sonic game every other week.
I can go on, but there you go SEGA. You're welcome.
IMO what Sonic should be:
--Characters--
Good: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy
Bad: Doctor Eggman
--Story--
Dr. Eggman wants to build a giant amusement park and enslave the forest animals to work there cuz he's crazy, so you go stop him.
No humans, if you're gonna have humans keep them to a minimum, and make them an NPC with a point. Also keep em cartoonish.
--Gameplay--
- Semi Openworld/Sandbox
- Platformer
- Make sonic slower to give player more control (very important, not too slow, think Sonic Mania special stage speed or even Sonic Lost World )
- Sonic: Solve physics puzzles using speed and acrobatics (kinda like Lost world), or other speed based minigames (like Koopa the quick type things)
- Knuckles: More combat focused levels/segments, use him to reach unreachable areas in level
- Tails: Used for more slower paced platforming levels/segments, also used to reach unreachable areas cuz of flying abilites, can do flying segment puzzles levels with him
- Free all trapped forest critter capsules in each world
- Every couple worlds will have a mega boss that you defeat to get a chaos emerald
- Special Challenge: destroy all enemies in a level, this is equivalent to 1 extra capsule (like 100 coin in mario 64)
- Chaos emeralds lets you access final level.
- ONLY ADD NEW CHARACTER IF DESIGN OF CURRENT 3 DO NOT LEND THEMSELVES TO A PARTICULAR GAME MECHANIC. i.e. No point for rogue the bat since tails can fly, no point for Espio since sonic is already fast, no point for mighty since knuckles is already strong. Only add a character if it makes sense from a gameplay mechanic standpoint
--Development--
This is the most important, spend more than a year or 1.5 years lol. Keep it in the oven for a little while. Like JEEEEEEEESUS SEGA. Try 3 years or something. Y'all don't need to shit out a sonic game every other week.
I can go on, but there you go SEGA. You're welcome.
Because people like more characters than the characters you listed, and people like different themes for sonic games than the one " simplicity" you are talking about
Oh my God
SatoAilDarko
Member
Hey I like Team Chaotix. I definitely like them more than Silver. It's just weird to not see a female character who can fight. Rouge doesn't hold up to Blaze.
Also can Cream appear? I liked Sonic's core team having two females and Blaze being the female equivalent of Silver.
From what I tend to read online (especially GAF) it seems that no one likes sonic's extra friends and all the extra characters.
Y'all ever seen Sonic Utopia? I'm suggesting something along the lines of that, but with the gameplay mechanics additions I suggested. Not really openworld, but like sandboxish
Shadow the hedgehog is quite literally the most popular sonic character not named sonic.
That isn't a joke.
There are also plenty of places of on the net who have shown love for various sonic characters, heck people in this thread want to see blaze.
You have to account for other people who don't have similar views if you wanna pitch stuff.
I did.
I think it's terrible. It's a sandbox, yeah, full of absolutely nothing. And I don't think adding "things to find" would make it better. I have absolutely no interest in going around and trying to do jumps with Sonic to reach a hidden capsule to free a bird or whatever. That's not what Sonic is about. At the end of the day what we'd be doing is making a Mario game with Sonic in its place and having a couple different abilities, while gimping the defining trait of the character for... that.
Just make more 2D games like Mania, give the team a bigger budget, make something actually visually impressive and out of the Saturn era. There. 2D platforming Sonic is fixed and safe for the rest of time. As for 3D, take boost and build on it. I know people like to say they aren't doing that here because they've seen 100 seconds of footage of the intro level, but I'll be reserving judgement til the game's on my HDD and I'm playing it.
It really more that sega seems to like creating new characters every time instead of using those already available, plus not using them in any meaningful way.
As for Sonic utopia, it does play really great, but the idea that Sega could just do an open sandboxish game that's long and varied enough to justify a 40+$ purchase, when the player is running through it at super sonic speed which definitively needs a lot of space that will only be visited for seconds, while also needing to keep things fresh since an open sandbox with no objectives and that only look like green hill would get old fast...
If it's even possible, Sonic team definitively don't have a team that could pull this miracle off.
No point in arguing against snap judgments based on small excerpts of gameplay, a segment of SonicGAF is very certain that all games after 3 and CD were unequivocally and irreparably bad or at best very mediocre up until Mania.
Eh, while I will certainly say that the " nothing past classic sonic was ever good" folks are wrong IMO and are sometimes annoying
Not being impressed by what little they have shown, is well within their rights. I'm a sonic fan and i'm not impressed.
Sometimes shit looks sketch to a lot of folks
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
I have the same look they do looking at them.
.
the autotranslate offers great insight
I hope I'm not the only one here thinking the presentation with these cutscenes looks...rather sloppy? The environment textures look unpolished (especially the ground texture in the first pic), the lighting looks really basic (why does the lighting in the fourth pic super bright for what's supposed to be a dark, cloudy location?), and the camera framing and positioning is really sterile, none of the shots look dynamic in any way (which especially looks bad here since they're going for a more story-driven and serious tone).
Everything just has this raw, "unrendered" look to it, which is really baffling given the game is not only running on eight-gen hardware, but also is also said to have an upgraded Hedgehog Engine on top of it. For a game coming out in two months...this just looks shockingly rough.
I'd honestly rather have nothing in that place and Sonic Team strictly focused on making a game with polished Boost gameplay. Botched Classic Sonic gameplay is bad for its own reasons and genre roulette playstyles are also bad for their own reasons.
This doesn't have to be a Sophie's Choice.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Pretty sure the real twist is
Infinite is your create a character. Thus the name Infinite
Who said anything about being impressed? My take on it is and has always been "eh, it'll probably be a slightly shittier Generations with more dumb story and early-oughts music". I'm not setting a crazy high bar, I'm just saying it seems like it will be decent.
I wouldn't mind it, but then you have to convince Sonic Team they can do a full game that can be sold for $60 or whatever featuring just boost gameplay and not have it be expensive as hell and/or 2 hours long. We all know the reason these things exist, and if they have to exist, which apparently they do, then it might as well be something that's fun even if not really THE GREATEST EVER. Because I find Generations' Classic levels fun, even if the levels aren't S3&K-like or whatever.
That said though, I do think people are sorta mean to Classic Sonic in Generations. It's not botched. Sonic 4 is botched. Generations Sonic is simply different. The stages aren't designed to be like the Genesis' ones, and that's fine. The gameplay in there holds up well enough for them to be enjoyable and a different take on existing levels. I loved Rooftop Run Classic, for instance, and I'm glad it exists. Same could be said about Crisis City Classic. In general, even if they're not expansive like the old games, the stages have enough gimmicks for them to be interesting to go through and not feel like a chore.
But basically, at the end of the day, It doesn't have to be, but then it sorta does have to be Sophie's Choice. Which is the tough spot Sonic itself as a character exists. So, yarr.
Oh, and you know what's really terrible? Sonic Generations 3DS. Now that's a game I want to burn. Was it Dimps? I'm willing to bet it was, because they took the page from the stupid death pits right off Sonic Advance 2 and continued to copy/paste it every damn where. It's absolutely ridiculous how anyone could design 90% of those bottomless pits and think they're OK when stuff is thrown randomly after rails and you have no idea where you'll stop after jumping off from them, only to discover that you shouldn't actually be trying to go too fast or you'll fall down a place with nothing at all for no reason other to offer cheap deaths to the player. Now that's a crap Sonic game that actively manages to piss me off.
My bar wasn't high
But they have continued to disappoint me from teaser one, as with many folks.
Am I wrong to think the entire mountain range in the background is just a flat texture and the floor is just a single flat plane? Because, wow.
Yeah it doesn't look great...
Well like I said, slow Sonic down, and not only will you have better control over the character, but also it will be easier to deal with needing such a large world. Also I def am not suggesting everything look like green hill zone lol. I only used Utopia as an approximation for what I had in mind in terms of game mechanics. My idea would be closer to Utopia mixed with Sonic Jam.
But yeah it would take a miracle to happen, but I can dream right?
It's just frustrating to see this series become a meme because SEGA doesn't seem to want to put in the time IMO. I mean look at some of the screenies of this game.BTW incase some believe I'm spouting opinions without playing any sonic games, I own Sonic 2, Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic 3, Sonic CD, Sonic R, SA1, SA2, Unleashed (wii), Colours, Generations and Mania. Not saying my opinion is more valid than anyone elses, I just don't want peeps to think I'm giving a random hot take based off nothing. I really do care for the series.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
I think they can, the problem (at least how I see it) is that they keep trying to shoehorn platforming elements into the Boost gameplay and sell it as a 3D platformer. This is despite 3D platforming easily being the weakest part of the playstyle and it really not being the main point of what the gameplay is built on.
I think they would be better off throwing out the platforming elements and refocused the playstyle into the racing genre. They wouldn't have to spend as much resources on building tracks and the gameplay would be focused entirely on the high-speed thrills and flashy setpieces, without having to add 3D platforming sequences or other playstyles/gimmicks (2D gameplay, Werehogs, Classic Sonic, Custom Hero) to pad out the game length.
Star Orpheus
Member
People near to realize that for kids "edgy" is often a plus. When I was little I actually loved the plot of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.
Also I personally hate the "shitty friends" meme. It used to mean the different gameplay styles like adventure but somehow mutated into "any characters besides Sonic and Tails are terrible."
Believe it or not a lot of people do in fact like these characters.
Also I personally hate the "shitty friends" meme. It used to mean the different gameplay styles like adventure but somehow mutated into "any characters besides Sonic and Tails are terrible."
Believe it or not a lot of people do in fact like these characters.
Nah, for me 'disappointment' is being forced into fishing gameplay in SA1, or the wonky treasure hunting in both SA1 and 2, or the werehog stuff in Unleashed, or Sonic Boom's entire thing. This is nowhere near disappointing yet.
Now, if it comes out, bombs, does 65 on metacritic, and controls like trash in the final version, then sure, I'll be happy to admit it was bad.
Now that I'm reading through this thread, why do people keep on bringing up the stupid "why does Sonic has to be so edgy" bullshit complaint.
Sonic has always been about edginess whether you like to believe it or not. Sonic's whole American design and marketing was always about him being "cooler" than Mario. He's always had an attitude. The Sonic Archie comics and the SatAm settings were always in a post apocalyptic world where they were fighting against the regime (eggman and his robot army).
Shits always been like this. People just want to shit on the franchise because it's an easy target and want to bitch and moan about every little aspect of the series. And if we're being real here, the peak of the over the top edginess has to be "Shadow the Hedgehog" which is at this point, over 10 fucking years ago. The franchise has even strayed from the "edginess" with titles like Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations and Sonic Lost World, and guess what Sonic Team gets? More fucking complaining.
At this point I bet the biggest critics on GAF constantly shitting on this game wasn't even going to get the game in the first place.
Sonic has always been about edginess whether you like to believe it or not. Sonic's whole American design and marketing was always about him being "cooler" than Mario. He's always had an attitude. The Sonic Archie comics and the SatAm settings were always in a post apocalyptic world where they were fighting against the regime (eggman and his robot army).
Shits always been like this. People just want to shit on the franchise because it's an easy target and want to bitch and moan about every little aspect of the series. And if we're being real here, the peak of the over the top edginess has to be "Shadow the Hedgehog" which is at this point, over 10 fucking years ago. The franchise has even strayed from the "edginess" with titles like Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations and Sonic Lost World, and guess what Sonic Team gets? More fucking complaining.
At this point I bet the biggest critics on GAF constantly shitting on this game wasn't even going to get the game in the first place.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Lack of level variety in promotional trailers is never a good sign (basically a telltale that this really IS practically most of everything they have done for the game). Doesn't help that half the shown locales have that sunset lighting.
The uh... what could lovingly be called plot seems to be taking itself completely seriously and not having any self-irony or levity in your edgy game about cartoon hedgehogs and foxes seems like an extremely questionable decision!
Finally this looks extremely cobbled together from flipped assets. Green hill again, Egg Dragoon again, if you're trying to sell me literally Generations 1.5 Sega I am not okay with you, please try harder than not at all.
I just really want Generations but better, bigger and with new levels I guess? This is Generations but looking worse, looking smaller and with a whole bunch of the same parts (I know there are new parts).
The uh... what could lovingly be called plot seems to be taking itself completely seriously and not having any self-irony or levity in your edgy game about cartoon hedgehogs and foxes seems like an extremely questionable decision!
Finally this looks extremely cobbled together from flipped assets. Green hill again, Egg Dragoon again, if you're trying to sell me literally Generations 1.5 Sega I am not okay with you, please try harder than not at all.
I just really want Generations but better, bigger and with new levels I guess? This is Generations but looking worse, looking smaller and with a whole bunch of the same parts (I know there are new parts).
Maybe because a Sonic game came out last month featuring none of this edgelord bullshit that was universally praised?
Way before Mania was announced, people was still throwing around the "too edgy" bullshit. This isn't some new narrative that popped up lately because of Sonic Mania's success.
Its praised because its a good game.
If that game was shit people would shit on it
If they make a new edgy game that's good it will be praised
That's about it
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
im digging this honestly
Is this like how prior to Sonic Mania's release people started getting worried that Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon were the only new zones in the game, only for it to come out and find this was not the case?
Because something can be edgy without being TOO edgy. You know.
There is a limit and when you go beyond it, more people dislike it than like it.
Sonic Mania is edgy enough in a subtle way. And on top of it, is an incredible game. Sonic Forces looks too edgy for me, and in top of that, a dull, dialog-bloated and boring game. I hope I'm wrong.
Sonic mania is as edgy as mashmellow.
Mania has some signs of being rushed out though and "Oh, it doesn't have 2 new stages, it has FOUR!" doesn't really help.
But I'm thinking more of Final Fantasy XV where all they've been showing for years were open empty plains and that's what ended up being most of the gameplay until the linear section.
That's because those were bad games too.
I agree, but it would be praised despite of that, not because of it.
Well there are only 8 in Sonic 2 and 7 in Sonic 1, and in Mania there's one new zone for every old one, if you include the final zone. And old ones still have new levels and music (Stardust Speedway Act 1 utilising the Past version from CD was smart).
What signs are you referring to that it was rushed? Just that there are bugs, or what?
And come on mate, FFXV and Sonic Forces aren't even remotely similar types of games to be comparing in that way.
Mr. Smiley
Member
so did they explain why silver is there
Depends on the audience.
There are a bunch of people like me who like the cheesey edgy shit
Its why its still around
So again, what are you trying to say?
Team Andromeda
Member
Team Andromeda
Member
It's just the Sonic hate bandwagon. Sonic has always been edgy but like you say its an easy target.
Having attitude doesn't mean being edgy. Sonic has never been this edgy, he was cool, that's it. You can see the difference with the artworks from Classic Sonic compared to the original Japanese ones. And Satam and Archie isn't even "canon" products so it doesn't matter (I found both horrible btw, even as a kid).
I like Sonic since I was 6 years old in 1991, and Forces is not the same as what it was back then. I agree for some it just hate bandwagon but not everyone. Some of us were happy with the direction the franchise took starting Colors (and maybe kind of Unleashed too). Hell, we went from awesome looking humans from Unleashed to devianart rejects...