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Sony close to agreeing cloud gaming acquisition

B

bangai-o

Banned
i would be highly interested in streaming Final Fantsay 12 on my Kindle Fire. Make it happen Sony/Onlive.
but i would rather it become an xbla game
 
W

wsippel

Banned
gofreak said:
Sony would pee its pants if it could universally deliver high end content to people without having to subsidise hardware for them.

The only reason they are selling you a PS4 is so you will buy PS4 games. If they can offer PS4 content to people without that hurdle, they would jump at it.
Click to expand...
Sure, but a console is also about vendor lock-in and branding. Those two things would be lost. Does it actually matter in the end? I think it does, but we'll see.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
wsippel said:
Sure, but a console is also about vendor lock-in and branding. Those two things would be lost. Does it actually matter in the end? I think it does, but we'll see.
Click to expand...

If you're playing on a PS3 you still have those things.

Thinking more about it, though, and thinking even further down the line, there may be classes of content on new machines that simply can't really work off the cloud anyway - unless lag becomes practically non-existent. For example, if we ever have 'VR' or 'AR' glasses style HMDs or whatever, the rendering necessary to make that work well would need to be very close by in terms of lag.

So I think Playstation content, certainly the higher end 'current' stuff, will probably always at least need a Playstation controller, if not more hardware, in your room. So if some kinds of content come off a box remotely rather than in your room, I don't know if it would be a big vendor/branding loss. If third parties were to be allowed in to access that Playstation content that can come off a cloud, you have a model for how that would work in Playstation phone certification...which involves branding and so on.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Gaikai emerges as Sony acquisition frontrunner
The signs are pointing to an acquisition of Gaikai at the hands of Sony.

Yesterday MCV exclusively revealed that Sony was on the cusp of purchasing a high profile cloud gaming firm, thought to be either Gaikai or OnLive.

Now this morning Gaikai has sent out invitations to journalists for what it is heralding as a game-changing announcement.

“Gaikai has some major announcements in store for E3 that have the potential to change the future of video games, game consoles and how we play,” it reads.

It is unlikely that the deal means Sony is abandoning more traditional models for the PS4, but it does mean that it intends to diversify its offering. Expect disc-based games to soon become simply one option amongst many.
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
gofreak said:
If you're playing on a PS3 you still have those things.

Thinking more about it, though, and thinking even further down the line, there may be classes of content on new machines that simply can't really work off the cloud anyway - unless lag becomes practically non-existent. For example, if we ever have 'VR' or 'AR' glasses style HMDs or whatever, the rendering necessary to make that work well would need to be very close by in terms of lag.

So I think Playstation content, certainly the higher end 'current' stuff, will probably always at least need a Playstation controller, if not more hardware, in your room. So if some kinds of content come off a box remotely rather than in your room, I don't know if it would be a big vendor/branding loss. If third parties were to be allowed in to access that Playstation content that can come off a cloud, you have a model for how that would work in Playstation phone certification...which involves branding and so on.
Click to expand...

More so than current Console input to TV output lag? (typically ~100ms lag all up). Because according to admittedly a rather biased informatics graph that Gaikai showed not too long ago, they've pretty much brought lag down to that level.
 
T

thuway

Member
Can someone tell me if this is possible:

Step 1: I buy PS4 disc and can play it on my PS4.
Step 2: Inside PS4 disc is a CODE which gives me the ability to stream.
Step 3: I walk outside, go to work, and stream the title on my Vita (pending I'm a PlayStation Plus Subscriber).

Am I dreaming?
 
N

nofi

Member
thuway said:
Can someone tell me if this is possible:

Step 1: I buy PS4 disc and can play it on my PS4.
Step 2: Inside PS4 disc is a CODE which gives me the ability to stream.
Step 3: I walk outside, go to work, and stream the title on my Vita (pending I'm a PlayStation Plus Subscriber).

Am I dreaming?
Click to expand...

No, that's entirely possible. Kinda what we were thinking a few days back.

PS3, too.
 
K

KillerAJD

Member
And also, this would probably be super long term, and who knows if it'll go down like this, but maybe this is Sony's answer to Microsoft wanting a one box future in regards to living room stuff. From my point of view, Sony probably don't even want a single box, they want it to be your TV. Like GoFreak said, at this point, a dedicated box is needed for the high end games and entertainment, but we are approaching the point where it may be acceptable (in regards to usability and quality) to have everything needed in the TV for the regular consumer. And with the game streaming, that seems like it could remove a big hurdle in having to fit a PS3/4 into a TV. Not only would it help it manufacturing complexity and aesthetic design, but price as well. Again, thinking completely out loud, but I could see Sony looking at this as a way of helping not only the PlayStation division, but their ailing TV division as well. Exciting times regardless!
 
N

nofi

Member
thuway said:
I still feel like a dual strategy would work best. Sell the disc (make retailers happy), stream online content (to the Vita)- IE work together, not exclusively. Give consumers the option.
Click to expand...

I agree, and that's almost certainly the way it would work.
 
Y

Yjynx

Member
James Sawyer Ford said:
This is incredibly forward thinking and exactly the type of service Sony needs in order to popularize their Playstation Plus service, which is completely lacking in my view.

Streaming is the future, and the future is now for film and music. Services like Netflix, Hulu, and Spotify occupy a significant portion of my media needs at the present moment, and are replacing outdated methods like television.

I can certainly see an unlimited gaming streaming service being wildly popular over time, just like Netflix picked up steam. Note: Netflix did NOT replace on-demand for new content. I still go to the movies whenever a flick come out that I want, or buy a Blu-Ray when there'a a film I adore and want to see it in the highest quality, multiple times. What Netflix does best is leverage a gigantic catalog of older content in an unlimited fashion.

Fact is, I do not want to individually pay for the vast majority of the content I view on Netflix. Some of it is great content, but I see it as disposable. All content is disposable, really. It's great to watch something I would otherwise not necessarily be interested in simply because I can without penalty. I've paid my monthly free, and I'm able to explore at my leisure without much boundaries.

I can see Playstation Plus w/ Unlimited Game Streaming serving a similar purpose. Sony has 3 generations behind their belt now, an absolutely MASSIVE collection of first party PS1, PS2, and PS3 titles -- MOST of which are not generating them any income. Individually, their value as $5 releases doesn't amount to all that much, and I'd be surprised if the PS1/PS2 games constituted any significant revenue source for them in comparison to their PS3 efforts.

HOWEVER, collectively? This huge catalog represents enormous value for a service that charges $10/mo for unlimited streaming games. Most of these titles I wouldn't necessarily buy as individual $5 purchases. But if I'm allowed to play them for a flat monthly fee, it will allow me to play and experience games that I wouldn't consider before, and many of those games I will probably end up adoring. It's the same way that Netflix and Spotify have dramatically changed my viewing habits, and I've found hidden gems that I would otherwise not be able to experience if I was forced to pay for the content individually.

If Sony can amass an active userbase of streamers, that's $10/mo which is A LOT more than what they would otherwise earn if they exclusively sold these games at $5 a piece. I can't tell you the last time I purchased a PS1 or PS2 game on the PSN store. But I would GLADLY pay $10/mo or $120 per year to experience a massive catalog at my disposal, similar to how I will gladly pay for that service on Netflix or Spotify. Getting millions of active users of PSN Plus at that rate would do wonders for their business, and allow it to evolve and transform our expectations of how we play games.

To those concerned about the feasibility - we're still in the infancy of this technology, but you always need to start somewhere. There's plenty of broadband users NOW who can experience the greatness of this technology without much issue. 10 years ago, that number would have been infinitesimal. 10 years ago I was just getting broadband service from dial-up, and probably had download speeds of 1 MB/s. Now? I get close to 20 MB/s, and that's pretty average for most broadband services these days, and 20 MB/s is more than enough bandwidth to handle something like this. I can't imagine how good the internet will be in another decade, and that's when this technology will truly take hold. Next-gen could be the last gen we ever experience, honestly.

Quite excited to hear about Sony's plans for this at E3.
Click to expand...

spot on.
 
H

Horse Armour

Member
thuway said:
Can someone tell me if this is possible:

Step 1: I buy PS4 disc and can play it on my PS4.
Step 2: Inside PS4 disc is a CODE which gives me the ability to stream.
Step 3: I walk outside, go to work, and stream the title on my Vita (pending I'm a PlayStation Plus Subscriber).

Am I dreaming?
Click to expand...

I'm 99% sure the PS4 won't have the same controls as the Vita so I doubt it.
 
B

Brad Grenz

Member
The Abominable Snowman said:
No. Unlimited PC Play installs the game to your computer. OnLive doesn't. Maybe a few game files, but nothing large from my experience.
Click to expand...

OnLive installs nothing game specific. The client displays a video stream of gameplay and sends user inputs back to the server, nothing else. Nothing gets downloaded or cached since everything is processed server side.

Horse Armour said:
I'm 99% sure the PS4 won't have the same controls as the Vita so I doubt it.
Click to expand...

The Vita has 2 touch surfaces that can emulate any number of inputs, and if they're planning on this from the beginning, all PS4 games will just be created with a Vita friendly input option.
 
Hydrargyrus

Hydrargyrus

Member
Brad Grenz said:
The Vita has 2 touch surfaces that can emulate any number of inputs, and if they're planning on this from the beginning, all PS4 games will just be created with a Vita friendly input option.
Click to expand...

It would be great a DS4 with concave sticks and triggers, and a back touch panel
 
O

onQ123

Member
thuway said:
Can someone tell me if this is possible:

Step 1: I buy PS4 disc and can play it on my PS4.
Step 2: Inside PS4 disc is a CODE which gives me the ability to stream.
Step 3: I walk outside, go to work, and stream the title on my Vita (pending I'm a PlayStation Plus Subscriber).

Am I dreaming?
Click to expand...

where the hell have you been? that's remote play & you can do it with your PS3 \PSP & Vita & you don't need PlayStation Plus.
 
S

spwolf

Member
gofreak said:
Sony would pee its pants if it could universally deliver high end content to people without having to subsidise hardware for them.

The only reason they are selling you a PS4 is so you will buy PS4 games. If they can offer PS4 content to people without that hurdle, they would jump at it.

I do not know if they will though. It would certainly be technically possible if PS4 is a PC-in-a-box, but whether Sony would have a philosophical objection to delivering their highest end content over a steam, I don't know.

The fact is, though, that an awful lot of people would still need or want a box locally executing their PS4 software, or most of it, so plenty of people would still have a reason to get a PS4 even if their PS3 could play PS4 content off a cloud. The ability to sample PS4 stuff on their PS3 might in fact promote PS4 purchases.

But, imagining a far off future where everyone could play content lag free off the cloud? Sony would have no problem getting rid of the hardware in your room. It's not what they're making money off with you. And it's not a matter of 'being like a third party service' - they would still own the platform the content is being delivered off. The platform is not the physical box.
Click to expand...

Technically, there is no reason both services wouldnt work with PS3, adjusted of course.
When it comes to Sony or any software maker, this would be their dream future as it effectively prevents piracy and used game sales, two of their biggest issues right now.

plus they also dont have to subsidize the device either.

This is what crazy Ken talked about 8-10 years ago.

Playstation inventor Ken Kutaragi, as chairman and group CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. is already thinking ahead to Playstation 4 and beyond. In an exclusive interview with EE Times, Kutaragi said: "As a matter of course, I have the vision of Playstation 4, 5 and 6, which will merge into the network
Click to expand...
 
K

Kafel

Banned
Is this the unified console some people wanted to see ?

Technically there's nothing keeping me from playing 360 games on PS3 through cloud gaming, no ?
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Not sure if this is related to this specific rumor, but GamesRadar is teasing something about their latest podcast:

http://twitter.com/DanDawkins/statuses/208163429255610368

@DanDawkins said:
Just learnt something about Sony's E3 conference that confirms my thoughts in latest @GamesRadar UK podcast bit.ly/KrBmRX
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/GamesRadar/statuses/208172072818589696

@GamesRadar said:
So, there's a secret PlayStation #E3 truth buried away somewhere in our latest podcast. Better give it a listen then: bit.ly/KrBmRX
Click to expand...

Don't have time to listen through it now, though.
 
C

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
Kafel said:
Is this the unified console some people wanted to see ?

Technically there's nothing keeping me from playing 360 games on PS3 through cloud gaming, no ?
Click to expand...

Technically you would need the hardware to emulate the PS3 or 360 to stream it to you in the first place, and Sony would never be able to stream 360 games to one of their devices, it's never going to happen.
 
T

thuway

Member
onQ123 said:
where the hell have you been? that's remote play & you can do it with your PS3 \PSP & Vita & you don't need PlayStation Plus.
Click to expand...

Where the hell have you been? The feature is NOT officially supported for MOST PS3 disc titles (you can't play Uncharted 2 remotely without a CFW PS3). It is also ridiculously laggy in almost all respects.

I'm sure whatever voodoo Gaikai has running that eliminates latency- would do wonders for our PS3/Vita combinations. This is a #gamechanger if Remote Play works. The Vita just became a trojan horse.
 
G

Grampa Simpson

Banned
I personally think the PS4 will be rackmount in some fashion. It will be standard PC server hardware and the part at home will be a little box to stream to. The home PS3 will be upgradable to PS4, and I'm sure the PS1 and PS2 will be emulated on the PS4. There will probably also be rack kit PS3 for games that they want to offer that never had a PC version. This could be very good for Sony. This solves a host of problems, and initiates a couple more. Piracy will be done. Game rentals will be done. Gamestop will be done (for them). Manufacturing and distribution of titles will be done.

The biggie for sony is that the physical product sold to the customer will be a tiny little box with a controller that costs them $75 total to manufacture and sells for $100 at retail.
 
S

SgtCobra

Member
onQ123 said:
Private Youtube Video that's linked to a strange video of someone playing Resistance: Burning Skies titled vid 012 go forward 8h which also links to the World in Play ads

wonder if it has anything to do with the cloud gaming?

vid 012 go forward 8h
Click to expand...

Nope seems to be another gameplay video :\

0.jpg
 
A

androvsky

Member
Zaptruder said:
More so than current Console input to TV output lag? (typically ~100ms lag all up). Because according to admittedly a rather biased informatics graph that Gaikai showed not too long ago, they've pretty much brought lag down to that level.
Click to expand...

Not really, current console input to TV lag is probably too much for a VR display. It doesn't take much lag to induce motion sickness with an HMD with head tracking. Fortunately, most of the lag is in the TV, so the VR display has a chance to eliminate most of it. I don't see cloud gaming catching up to what's needed there for a while.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
thehillissilent said:
I don't think Sony is buying Gaikai at all:


One of the Gaikai's big announcements was that they are powering Samsungs cloud gaming service on existing and new Smart TVs. Current Samsung Smart Tv owners just need to update their firmware. This is a deal similar to the one that LG has with Gaikai.
Click to expand...

They can still buy them but not rebrand them. Or not entirely. They can just add it as a service on PSN much like video and audio and so forth, without making it exclusive to Sony devices. And they can use the tech and servers to also provide a PS only type service along with Gaikai for everyone else.
 
S

Schobeleth

Member
thuway said:
Where the hell have you been? The feature is NOT officially supported for MOST PS3 disc titles (you can't play Uncharted 2 remotely without a CFW PS3). It is also ridiculously laggy in almost all respects.

I'm sure whatever voodoo Gaikai has running that eliminates latency- would do wonders for our PS3/Vita combinations. This is a #gamechanger if Remote Play works. The Vita just became a trojan horse.
Click to expand...

This. SO MUCH. All I want is TRUE remote play for ALL PS3 GAMES FFS. WHY CAN'T WE HAVE IT SONY. If this was possible, they would sell Vitas running off the PS3's steam alone. MAKE IT HAPPEN ARGHRGHH
 
G

Grampa Simpson

Banned
That and of the big hardware, they only need to have as many game servers as their maximum number of simultaneous players. This could be extremely good for them.
 
A

AgentChris

Member
From that podcast Dan Dawkins from PSM3 said that Sony has 2 surprise PS3 games to announce and he has a meeting with a secret company related to the cloud gaming rumors.
 
K

Koren

Member
Zaptruder said:
More so than current Console input to TV output lag? (typically ~100ms lag all up).
Click to expand...
I've always had doubts about those "100ms" values, so I just tried a first experiment to check it by myself.

I've used a video camera to take a short video of a Minna no Golf 5 swing on PS3, hammering my finger to increase precision on input measurement, then played it image by image. I'll check in details later, but the result on screen is in the NEXT image, so it's close to 30ms (will check the camera didn't skip an image, though, but I counted 45 images for around 1.5s, so I doubt it skips one image out of N...).

Nowhere near the 100ms I've also read elsewhere. Maybe if you use some games with a lot of internal lag, and TV set with a high lag. But it's nowhere near systematic (and it's the worse case since it's on the bottom of the screen which is as far as I know updated later than the top on LCD panels).

Factoring the ~15ms of the set according to trusted sources, pad input to HDMI must be close to the ~15ms required by the framerate. You can't get below far that (if Minna no Golf developpers are clever, they can read the input when the image is ready, though, and only paste the swing bar just before switching the buffers, that helps, I recon)...

Add a 15-40ms ping (that won't go anywhere close to 0 because of physical constraints like lightspeed) and the encoding/decoding and I failed to see how they could expect to get rid of the lag in any game. Of course, 20ms of lag if the TV&Game already account for 100ms of lag is not the same issue that 20ms of lag with a 30ms coming from the game and the set.

Will try in 60Hz as soon as I find some free time.
 
S

S. L.

Member
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