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[Bizzyb]

Ya know, I just had an interesting thought....How many freaking camera's and sensor bars are we going to have to put on top/below our TVS?? I seriously don't want to have to break out a new camera/sensor bar every single time I play a different console and it would look extremely clutter with All three up ant the same time....

 

[gofreak]

A thought just occurred to me: how terrible would Uncharted 2 be with Arc controls?

It doesn't sound like it'll ever happen reading Evan Wells' latest comments.

Unfortunately, IMO. I'd be keen to try it out.

 

[Vgamer]

Ya know, I just had an interesting thought....How many freaking camera's and sensor bars are we going to have to put on top/below our TVS?? I seriously don't want to have to break out a new camera/sensor bar every single time I play a different console and it would look extremely clutter with All three up ant the same time....

Thats actually a great point. If someone has all three systems imagine all the stuff that will be all over the TV for all this motion stuff. Will look very strange when a non-gamer comes over :lol

 

[TONX]

this is pefect! it will allow them to go head to head, spec vs. spec with Natal and show consumers that their product is the more advanced and game viable platform.

Just a great move by Sony for not allowing Microsoft garner any hype with their release of the 3 webcams in one.

Sony will be riding the wave from all of their tremendous first party games this year, along with the amazing 3D tech, right into the release of their wand... absolutely genius!

:lol Seriously man, who are you?

 

[Vinci]

:lol Seriously man, who are you?

A godsend.

 

[[Nintex]]

Fable 3 already supports it, and Microsoft is positioning Natal as the next console. Meaning every single thing Microsoft puts out post-Natal will support it. It's their next console and they are gonna support the hell out of it.

Removing the chip from Natal makes no sense if it really is their next console. I think that Natal is just a fieldtest and will be launched bundled with a game. A new Xbox model opening up more Natal functions will follow next fall. I seriously can't believe the reports that MS is going to ride this thing all the way into 2013. That pretty much goes against everything they stand for with the Xbox 360. However, with the new management and all they might actually be that stupid.

 

[PSGames]

Launching this beside Natal will be really brilliant or really dumb. Perhaps the motion controller hype from Natal will help the sales of the Arc. Or maybe it will be looked at as a 'me too' Wii knock off and be buried. Time will tell.

 

[marc^o^]

IWATA: (Laughs)

 

[gamergirly]

Launching this beside Natal will be really brilliant or really dumb. Perhaps the motion controller hype from Natal will help the sales of the Arc. Or maybe it will be looked at as a 'me too' Wii knock off and be buried. Time will tell.

It's possible that out of the two(Sony and Microsoft), only one console's motion tech will succeed

 

[Vinterbird]

Removing the chip from Natal makes no sense if it really is their next console. I think that Natal is just a fieldtest and will be launched bundled with a game. A new Xbox model opening up more Natal functions will follow next fall. I seriously can't believe the reports that MS is going to ride this thing all the way into 2013. That pretty much goes against everything they stand for with the Xbox 360. However, with the new management and all they might actually be that stupid.

We don't know what moving the chip will mean for developers, since no one has really commented on that. And if Microsoft builds a suit of applications that will help developers work with Natal and the software it offers, I really don't see the problem with the missing chip. Especially not since Epic is figuring it into their work on Unreal 4. Making it possible to create good visuals while stile working with the Natal hardware.

There really isn't any reason as to why they wouldn't use Natal to relaunch the 360, give it a new look, feel and market perception and use that to ride into 2013-14 and launch a new hardware platform by then. The reason Natal is coming now, is because of this and the economic situation. If the recession hadn't happened, we would see the next Xbox with Natal as the main input this E3. But the new climate has changed that, and is giving Microsoft the chance to push their next console out, without releasing any new console so to speak.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It's possible that out of the two(Sony and Microsoft), only one console's motion tech will succeed

My bet is on neither, but we'll see.

Personally I think this is a non story. It was pretty obvious that the Spring launch was just a smokescreen and was never actually going to happen,not unlike the PS3 launch.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

It's possible that out of the two(Sony and Microsoft), only one console's motion tech will succeed

Both will probably be about as successful as Motion+.

 

[nocode]

A thought just occurred to me: how terrible will everything be with Arc controls?

Let me fix that for you there....


And that goes for Natal as well.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Vinci]

Both will probably be about as successful as Motion+.

....

Sony and MS would kill to have prettyprettyprincessstick or Natal be as successful as Motion +. It has sold shitloads.

 

[Black-Wind]

Going up against NATAL's launch is that really the best strategy they could come up with?

?

I thought this thing was coming out in fall and Natal in spring. 0_o

Guess I was wrong . . .

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Depending on cost, this might now, due to direct market comparison, cast more of a light on the fact that Arcs only work one per player so you'd need to buy more than one for multiplayer games, while Natal as multiplayer "built in" so to speak.

I guess it'd just be one other thing for the chart makers.

 

[Flachmatuch]

A thought just occurred to me: how terrible would Uncharted 2 be with Arc controls?

If it worked as well as the Wiimote, it could make it a lot better. Dual sticks would not be competitive in multiplayer any more either

 

[Psychotext]

prettyprettyprincessstick

That it. First time I use it I'm going to wear a tutu. :lol

 

[selig]

You were doing so well until the last sentence! Both Arc and Natal will fail simultaneously (and spectacularly, after a brief but successful period of media hype)... and then Nintendo will shit on them with just, well, more of the same. Hardcore gamers will come away disgusted by all three parties.

And then gamers will laugh about those calling themselves "hardcore gamers".

@topic:

I really thought Sony might some weird off-chance of having some small success with Saggle if it was released in spring. No chance if its at the end of the year, though. If Nintendo does as they said, there´ll be Zelda Wii, which will be the ultimate MotionPlus-show case title. Nobody will care about Sony releasing HD-minigames and RE5 with tacked on gimmick-controls then.

And to the guy making that "witty" comment about Nintendo maybe announcing the 4th MotionPlus-game: What you want is out there. Just not on "your" system, fanboy.

 

[Vinci]

That it. First time I use it I'm going to wear a tutu. :lol

I don't know. Guy used that in this thread earlier and, yeah, it's catchy.

Also, pictures or it didn't happen.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Nobody will care about Sony releasing HD-minigames and RE5 with tacked on gimmick-controls then.

Gimmick controls my ass, pointer control for shooters is awesome. Seriously, why do people have to troll the best thing about motion controls :-/

 

[Nemo]

Kinda didn't read too much about this but Sony pushing this as the replacement of the old controller got me interested.

It's basically wiimotion plus right?

 

[selig]

Gimmick controls my ass, pointer control for shooters is awesome. Seriously, why do people have to troll the best thing about motion controls :-/

Pointer Controls are fine on the Wii. It was the more precise motioncontrols that fanboys flabbergusted about. And from the RE5 Motion-demonstration, it didnt look like it was using pointing, but some kind of vague waggling into the direction you want your character to look.

 

[LRB1983]

The saddest thing it's we won't play Resident Evil Gold Edition with Motion Controller. :-(

 

[Synless]

Kinda didn't read too much about this but Sony pushing this as the replacement of the old controller got me interested.

It's basically wiimotion plus right?

Yes, but better accuracy.

 

[Nemo]

Yes, but better accuracy.

Thanks dude

 

[Flachmatuch]

Pointer Controls are fine on the Wii. It was the more precise motioncontrols that fanboys flabbergusted about. And from the RE5 Motion-demonstration, it didnt look like it was using pointing, but some kind of vague waggling into the direction you want your character to look.

There were a few demos that looked better though, but yeah, the RE5 demo looked quite disappointing (although the one I remember is also quite old). I'm still really looking forward to this, as it's still the best bet for wiimote style shooting in worthwhile games :-/

 

[gofreak]

....

Sony and MS would kill to have prettyprettyprincessstick or Natal be as successful as Motion +. It has sold shitloads.

Something tells me this is going to be a repeat of the general situation this gen - they'll sell less but will have far more/better developer support than M+.

At least looking at M+ now. Support for that has been amazingly slow in forthcoming for some reason.

Pointer Controls are fine on the Wii. It was the more precise motioncontrols that fanboys flabbergusted about. And from the RE5 Motion-demonstration, it didnt look like it was using pointing, but some kind of vague waggling into the direction you want your character to look.

The RE5 demo looked buggy as hell. In fact it seemed like half way through something 'gave' and the dude was struggling, and they sort of ended it there. Hopefully not a reflection of the final implementation in the gold edition...

 

[Nemo]

Something tells me this is going to be a repeat of the general situation this gen - they'll sell less but will have far more developer support than M+.

At least looking at M+ now. Support for that has been amazingly slow in forthcoming for some reason.

Which is what got me interested. Motionplus support is SHIT. If the competition is basically the same we can see more and more use out of it until it is perfected and we actually get to play what we see. God knows wmplus won't be getting any proper usage like this :/

 

[Vinci]

Something tells me this is going to be a repeat of the general situation this gen - they'll sell less but will have far more developer support than M+.

At least looking at M+ now. Support for that has been amazingly slow in forthcoming for some reason.

Oh no, Sony and MS will get more dev support with their motion controllers. No doubt about it. Even whilst marketing titles to a dramatically smaller userbase, they will go above and beyond for MS and Sony - because those two will pay them to do so. Nintendo won't.

And people will likely say, "Wait till after Zelda Wii!" but that's nonsense and nothing is going to get developers to do large-scale M+ support.

 

[milanbaros]

Both will probably be about as successful as Motion+.

In terms of support? Probably, its not hard. They could do that on day 1.

In terms of sales? No. WM+ has probably already sold over 20m ww.

 

[Basileus777]

Something tells me this is going to be a repeat of the general situation this gen - they'll sell less but will have far more developer support than M+.

At least looking at M+ now. Support for that has been amazingly slow in forthcoming for some reason.

I don't think there is any mystery about it. Motion+ doesn't offer developers enough for the types of games they are making in order to make restricting the install by supporting it worth it.

 

[Raide]

Maybe it will give MS a nudge now to pull out the stops and make something awesome. I think they hoped that it being new and Christmas was enough to make it sell, now they will have some competition.


Show me games!!

 

[selig]

And people will likely say, "Wait till after Zelda Wii!" but that's nonsense and nothing is going to get developers to do large-scale M+ support.

at which point people wont care about third party support anymore, though, as long as nintendo doesnt fuck up zelda wii.

 

[Vinci]

I don't think there is any mystery about it. Motion+ doesn't offer developers enough for the types of games they are making in order to make restricting the install by supporting it worth it.

Translated: Nintendo doesn't pay developers to make games for their system or their newest snazzy peripheral.

Got it.

at which point people wont care about third party support anymore, though, as long as nintendo doesnt fuck up zelda wii.

Pretty much. To be honest, they'd have to do something truly stellar to get my attention with Zelda Wii.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

prettyprettyprincessstick

Whenever I see that I hear a voice in my head going 'pretty pretty princess dick' D:

 

[gofreak]

I don't think there is any mystery about it. Motion+ doesn't offer developers enough for the types of games they are making in order to make restricting the install by supporting it worth it.

Just as an option though? Optional improved control? I know it's more work, but you know, a little pride in making the best possible product wouldn't go astray. (Although now as I type that wrt third party dev on Wii, I'm maybe beginning to see the problem...)

Vinci is right about the money thing too...though I think Microsoft and Sony might prefer the term 'marketing support' rather than the idea of cold hard payouts on things...

 

[Vinci]

Vinci is right about the money thing too...though I think Microsoft and Sony might prefer the term 'marketing support' rather than the idea of cold hard payouts on things...

God, no. MS, at the very least, is going to blatantly pay people to make games for the damn thing. Marketing, development, the whole bit if necessary.

 

[Somnid]

Oh no, Sony and MS will get more dev support with their motion controllers. No doubt about it. Even whilst marketing titles to a dramatically smaller userbase, they will go above and beyond for MS and Sony - because those two will pay them to do so. Nintendo won't.

Pretty much. Sony and MS are signing a lot of checks to make these happen whereas 3rd parties won't even support Wii despite the huge userbase.

 

[gamergirly]

Oh no, Sony and MS will get more dev support with their motion controllers. No doubt about it. Even whilst marketing titles to a dramatically smaller userbase, they will go above and beyond for MS and Sony - because those two will pay them to do so. Nintendo won't.

And people will likely say, "Wait till after Zelda Wii!" but that's nonsense and nothing is going to get developers to do large-scale M+ support.

Vinci is right about the money thing too...though I think Microsoft and Sony might prefer the term 'marketing support' rather than the idea of cold hard payouts on things...

Man, this is probably the last E3(the last year really) where Nintendo will have an opportunity to captivate 3rd parties as far as Wii is concerned. They are going to have to deck out some money. Money hats are made fun of but something has to give :lol

It's very likely that Zelda Wii and Metroid: Other M(since they are likely to be released AFTER Super Mario Galaxy 2) will be the last major "known" announcements for the Wii. We, as Wii owners, need to start thinking outside of the box. For when the hype dies down, you've beaten the game with 70+ hours put into it, and E3 is months away.

 

[Bradach]

Damn this delay... i've been looking forward to this since it was announced...

I thought re4 wii was a big improvement over the original GC version so i hope some of Sonys own franchises will be equally improved... Infamous 2 with motion controls would ROCK!

 

[Vinci]

Man, this is probably the last E3 where Nintendo will have an opportunity to captivate 3rd parties as far as Wii is concerned. They are going to have to deck out some money. Money hats are made fun of but something has to give :lol

Nintendo isn't going to money-hat 3rd parties. This gen is a done-deal. Nintendo will win overwhelmingly without a smidgen of 3rd party support, whereas Sony and MS will lose with gobs of it. Next-gen? Odds are, it won't be much different. In terms of 3rd party support anyway. Who knows where the tech will be...

 

[Basileus777]

Just as an option though? Optional improved control? I know it's more work, but you know, a little pride in making the best possible product wouldn't go astray. (Although now as I type that wrt third party dev on Wii, I'm maybe beginning to see the problem...)

Vinci is right about the money thing too...though I think Microsoft and Sony might prefer the term 'marketing support' rather than the idea of cold hard payouts on things...

What games would have really benefited from optional M+ support? The benefit is clear with sports games, and those are the types of games that have used the M+. If you aren't building the core of the game around the M+ (optional support), what other games released in 2009 could have really used M+?

 

[Lord Error]

A thought just occurred to me: how terrible would Uncharted 2 be with Arc controls?

It could possibly control even better than it does now. Or at least it wouldn't be worse, just different. Did you play RE4 for Wii, and was that terrible? The whole Wii and Sony motion control approach here excels when it comes to pointing and aiming. Everything else is almost a fluff in comparison, or can already be done with motion controls in Sixaxis.

 

[gofreak]

God, no. MS, at the very least, is going to blatantly pay people to make games for the damn thing. Marketing, development, the whole bit if necessary.

Oh for Natal specifically? Yeah I can see it happening in a few cases. For the wand too by Sony, perhaps.

I just mean more generally I think their financial support of third parties falls under the marketing support banner. You could talk about moneyhats for exclusives too, but that's less about getting them to make the game for your system (which they were going to do anyway) and more about getting them to make it ONLY for your system. I think 'marketing support' is the more general publisher support ms/sony give for all kinds of games (exclusive/non-exclusive/whatever), outside of cases where you're trying to get something exclusively, and when you're trying to drum up support for an untested/risky opportunity (like wand/natal).

It could possibly control even better than it does now. Or at least it wouldn't be worse, just different. Did you play RE4 for Wii, and was that terrible? The whole Wii and Sony motion control approach here excels when it comes to pointing and aiming. Everything else is almost a fluff in comparison, or can already be done with motion controls in Sixaxis.

It's much much better at tracking general motion too than Sixaxis. Sixaxis can only go a very short time with general tracking before your results are fudged. It's fairly impossible for you to move it around for any reasonable length of time and for it to know where it is at the end of it all relative to where it started, unlike it seems, the wand. I mean at E3 they were fairly constantly moving those things around for periods lasting more than a few seconds, and it never ever seemed to get confused about where it was in the virtual spaces they had. Sixaxis cannot do that - at least as far as I know, that's what I've been told when we had these discussions earlier on in PS3's life about tracking changes to its location in even relative terms. I thought some of the demos at E3 like the sword play one were pretty good examples of extended motion tracking vs pointing (or at least using the two combined vs 'just' pointing). Pretty much all the demos showed benefit for 'just' motion track as well as pointing, and/or the benefit of both combined.

 

[tzare]

I see problems in the future if controls are different for every system out there. However 'arc' looks like a nintendo wiimote but better overall so it can accept ports easily so it is a good idea. However, Natal might have the edge as looks ore futuristic from a sales standpoint. (i still do not see it as viable for gaming)

Obviously main support will come from first party efforts, both for natal and arc

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Translated: Nintendo doesn't pay developers to make games for their system or their newest snazzy peripheral.

Got it.

To a third party looking to make games... this part is kind of important. Having basically free marketing leaves them free to devote more money to the actual development of the title itself.

God, no. MS, at the very least, is going to blatantly pay people to make games for the damn thing. Marketing, development, the whole bit if necessary.

This is common for the game industry... Insomniac created their entire company around this idea.

Nintendo isn't going to money-hat 3rd parties. This gen is a done-deal. Nintendo will win overwhelmingly without a smidgen of 3rd party support, whereas Sony and MS will lose with gobs of it. Next-gen? Odds are, it won't be much different. In terms of 3rd party support anyway. Who knows where the tech will be...

Nintendo wins but with less games. Sony and MS can lose all the money they want writing checks but if that means that third parties finally get interested in making waggle games and finally aren't limited on the tech side, I'm all for it. The more games from different companies and different minds... the better.

 

[Agnates]

If you don't want them limited by tech then you should wish for the PC motion solutions to catch on, not this. This thread is turning into more fanboy wars for no reason...

Anyway, this is gonna hurt Sony's chance of success in this field for sure. Sad it happened. But if they take this extra time to design it better (nunchuck!) then it's a good thing.

 

[Vinci]

To a third party looking to make games... this part is kind of important. Having basically free marketing leaves them free to devote more money to the actual development of the title itself.

Marketing expense won't be enough. MS and Sony are going to need to pay for the development of prettyprettyprincessstick and Natal games. 3rd parties don't have any inherent need to support these things when what they're doing is either working or failing fine on its own, without the need for mass experimentation. It's going to take money, real money, not just marketing.

Nintendo wins but with less games. Sony and MS can lose all the money they want writing checks but if that means that third parties finally get interested in making waggle games and finally aren't limited on the tech side, I'm all for it. The more games from different companies and different minds... the better.

Only one method is sustainable, while the other isn't. Well, it might be for MS - they get to do what they want with all their monopoly money.

If you don't want them limited by tech then you should wish for the PC motion solutions to catch on, not this. This thread is turning into more fanboy wars for no reason...

I agree with this man.

 

[Opiate]

Oh for Natal specifically? Yeah I can see it happening in a few cases. For the wand too by Sony, perhaps.

I just mean more generally I think their financial support of third parties falls under the marketing support banner. You could talk about moneyhats for exclusives too, but that's less about getting them to make the game for your system (which they were going to do anyway) and more about getting them to make it ONLY for your system. I think 'marketing support' is the more general publisher support ms/sony give for all kinds of games (exclusive/non-exclusive/whatever), outside of cases where you're trying to get something exclusively, and when you're trying to drum up support for an untested/risky opportunity (like wand/natal)

That basically is a moneyhat, though. It's just legally sanctioned.

Let's say I want you to provide me a service. I pay you 5 dollars for that service, and you go and spend that on food.

Now let's say, instead, I want you to provide me a service, and I buy you 5 dollars worth of food as a bonus.

What's the difference? You were going to buy food anyway. Similarly, you were going to have to market your game anyway.

(Rant on) I've stated why I deplore this behavior before: because it distorts the market place. Let's be realistic here: Sony and Microsoft are both behaving this way in the hopes of capturing a dominant, monopolistic hold with their "convergence boxes." They want a Windows-esque monopoly where the music, movies, games, and other media which enter your living room first go through them. Does anyone argue with that premise?

Well, if and when one of them actually accomplishes that goal, you can rest assured the money hats will cease. What would be their motivation to continue? Microsoft would treat the console industry just like it now treats the PC gaming industry: it basically ignores it, because what are the developers going to do when there's no viable alternative?

And then publishers will suddenly be faced with a market where their products actually have to be self sustaining. As more of an industry observer than actual purveyor, I really deplore this practice. It provides short term gain at the cost of the long term health of the market.

/rant off