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[GnawtyDog]

Back to the budget topic, I'm sure TLOU was the most expensive game by SCE..

The dev cycle was "very short"...probably not.

 

[GooWop]

Wow! kojima pro and sony on production Wow. Lol

Lol bars!

 

[PhantomVash808]

Using an engine like UE4 is completely pointless and unnecessary within WWS. They have the ICE team for a reason ( ICE stands for Initiiative for Common Engines ). The tools that GG uses for Killzone SF are the same as the ones for Polyphony or Sony Japan or whom ever. Of course the studios will go in and customize the tools already available to them to make them work for their games specific purposes but what GG is doing with their engine is not some foreign mystery to Yoshida and other teams internally within the studio. They all collaborate together which is why the first party studios are so frequently able to raise the bar no matter the size of the team.

The week thing was an exaggeration of course but no doubt if Kojima requested the ability to use that toolset they would have it ready for him in relatively short time. It's not like the tools are being written with some foreign programming language. They are all using the same programming language no matter the country.

You do know that Sony Bend is using UE4 to build their next game right.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

People are getting all hyped up over very little.

A meet up between Cerny and Kojima does not necessarily mean a hire.
He probably will start a new studio with the best people he could bring from Kojima Productions and work on something else entirely new. He would have the kind of creative freedom that neither Microsoft nor Sony would ever give him (and certainly not Konami).

I don't know about Microsoft but for Sony I doubt it... take into consideration that "The Last of Us" was created based on a comic drawn and written by Neil Druckmann. That and SCE did let their Japan Studio go on projects like Puppeteer, Freedom Wars, Gravity Rush, Knack.... So SCE are, as of now, more permissive than most publishers out there when it comes to the creative freedom they give to their in-house studios.

Provided said developer agrees, of course.

And more recently, had lay offs in SSM, Sucker Punch and Evolution. Ueda is no longer a Sony employee, he is now a third party partner. They just don't don't do that sort of thing any more.

Which all could be explained by underwhelming launch sales (most likely due to high expectations) of their most recent titles; SSM's God of War Ascension, Sucker Punch's Infamous Second Son and Evolution's DriveClub (That and the online mess at launch).

Yes, because it's that easy. Sony waves their hand and it magically happens within a week. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? We're talking about a complex engine with millions of lines of code, not relatively simple pieces of code or tools. Even if the documentation exists (my guess is it's currently fairly limited, because there's no point creating a lot for an engine that's almost entirely used by the same two internal studios), translating that would take a shitload of time. And as for support, unless Kojima's team are going to give Guerrilla or Xdev a call every time they run into a problem (from a different time zone and in a different language, two major problems with that idea), how are Japan Studio going to build a support team that has intricate knowledge of the engine that quickly?

UE4 provides fantastic Japanese documentation and support because that's one of its main selling points and they've poured a lot of money and time into it. They're the only major engine that offers those and even then it still took Epic years to do (just look at how much of a mess Japanese UE3 games were last gen, Japanese devs had no idea how to use it).

You do realize that Until Dawn was rebuilt on the Killzone Shadow Fall's engine, right? A game developed by a second party studio...

So I doubt documentation would be much of a problem here...

 

[sense]

I don't know about Microsoft but for Sony I doubt it... take into consideration that "The Last of Us" was created based on a comic drawn and written by Neil Druckmann. That and SCE did let their Japan Studio go on projects like Puppeteer, Freedom Wars, Gravity Rush, Knack.... So SCE are, as of now, more permissive than most publishers out there when it comes to the creative freedom they give to their in-house studios.



Which all could be explained by underwhelming launch sales (most likely due to high expectations) of their most recent titles; SSM's God of War Ascension, Sucker Punch's Infamous Second Son and Evolution's DriveClub (That and the online mess at launch).



You do realize that Until Dawn was rebuilt on the Killzone Shadow Fall's engine, right? A game developed by a second party studio...

So I doubt documentation would be much of a problem here...

Infamous second son did not have underwhelming launch sales, quite the opposite actually. Biggest launch for the series and Sony sent out pr about how it sold like a million in 9 days or something and for a launch window title that did really well for them. Critically yes, it did not live up to expectation due to lack of unique stuff to do in game. Drive club is most likely a decent success considering the recent goal it reached of 2 million sold. Layoffs are not unusual at the end of a project so they will likely ramp up a year before the respective studios next title.

 

[dragonbane]

Dreams has been in development since 2011 and they had to work like crazy to create the tech that can support that games vision.

MM is relatively small though. SCE's most expensive games on PS4 will be from Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games, Quantic Dream, SSM and Polyphony.

 

[the-pi-guy]

Dreams has been in development since 2011 and they had to work like crazy to create the tech that can support that games vision.

The whole company has about 50 people.
Tearaway was developed by a small portion of it over that time as well.
But even if the entire team was working on Dreams, it'd look like this.

Uncharted 3 - 110 people over 2 years.
MM - 50 people over 4 years.

Uncharted 3 is ahead even in the worst case scenario.
From all the sources I can find, 15 people worked on Tearaway.
So really at probably it's 35 people over 4 years. That's a very small team.

 

[dragonbane]

The whole company has about 50 people.
Tearaway was developed by a small portion of it over that time as well.
But even if the entire team was working on Dreams, it'd look like this.

Uncharted 3 - 110 people over 2 years.
MM - 50 people over 4 years.

Uncharted 3 is ahead even in the worst case scenario.
From all the sources I can find, 15 people worked on Tearaway.
So really at probably it's 35 people over 4 years. That's a very small team.

And by current employee stats and interviews we have about 200 devs on Uncharted 4 and Horizon and around 150 at SSM and Quantic Dream working on their respective PS4 games. Dev time usually between 3-4 years.

 

[LiquidSolid]

You do realize that Until Dawn was rebuilt on the Killzone Shadow Fall's engine, right? A game developed by a second party studio...

So I doubt documentation would be much of a problem here...

Yeah, that's why I said "almost entirely." I don't think one external game means an engine suddenly has the kind of documentation and support needed to be used by widely, let alone by devs who don't speak the same language and live in a different time zone.

I guess I should point out that I'm not saying Guerrilla haven't created any documentation at all for their engine (in hindsight the "fairly limited" comment seems dismissive), just that widely used engines require far more extensive documentation than engines that are almost entirely used by the two studios who developed it.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

And by current employee stats and interviews we have about 200 devs on Uncharted 4 and Horizon and around 150 at SSM and Quantic Dream working on their respective PS4 games. Dev time usually between 3-4 years.

Since when does NG take 4 years to make a game?

 

[RPGamer92]

Since when does NG take 4 years to make a game?

Well technically they prob started working on The Last of Us right after Uncharted 2 came out and it didn't come out until 2013.

 

[Kasper]

The whole company has about 50 people.
Tearaway was developed by a small portion of it over that time as well.
But even if the entire team was working on Dreams, it'd look like this.

Uncharted 3 - 110 people over 2 years.
MM - 50 people over 4 years.

Uncharted 3 is ahead even in the worst case scenario.
From all the sources I can find, 15 people worked on Tearaway.
So really at probably it's 35 people over 4 years. That's a very small team.

20 - 25 people worked on Tearaway: http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...heir-ps4-game-littlebigplanet-and-having-fun/

Because this is not the only game you’re working on now is it… [Media Molecule has announced a PS4 title, but have yet to name it or give real details]

J: No it’s not, and for a tiny studio making two games is quite a lot. The Tearaway team is probably about twenty people.

M: There are probably about twenty to twenty five people.

 

[the-pi-guy]

20 - 25 people worked on Tearaway: http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...heir-ps4-game-littlebigplanet-and-having-fun/

My point stands ever stronger.

I was just going by this.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-16-media-molecule-working-on-second-project

Tearaway has been in development for around a year, with a team of 15 within Media Molecule working on the game and with Rex Crowle and co-founder David Smith leading the project.
"The focus is Tearaway, but Media Molecule is a lot more than 15 people," added co-founder Alex Evans.

 

[ZarKryn7]

I'd love for him to do something similar to ZOE. Let him make a mech game lol.

Well Sony has a mecha game the haven't touched in long time now. Did you play omega boost? Man, what a fun game. I remember playing a demo of it as a kid and also played my friend's copy. Man, I think kojima needs to revive it.

https://youtu.be/SSWDAaKvGXw

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Well technically they prob started working on The Last of Us right after Uncharted 2 came out and it didn't come out until 2013.

Yeah but by that 2-team logic I presume we get Uncharted 4 March 2016 and new IP Q4 2017.

Spoiler

I'm secretly hoping this actually

It's crazy that Uncharted 2 only took two years and only 20 million to make. What an achievement.

 

[viHuGi]

Uncharted 4 is likely to be Naughty Dog's most expensive game. For reference, Uncharted 1 had about 70 developers, 2 had about 90, 3 had about 110, Last of us about 150 and arne confirmed over 200 working on Uncharted 4. That combined with the longer than usual development time for Naughty Dog titles, I can imagine this one costing quite a bit. However, past naughty dog titles have been very cheap relative to other studios so not sure it will get close to that 80m number.

Horizon again has been in development a long time and similar to Naughty Dog, the studio have had a rather rapid increase in employees over the last year and a bit. Added to the fact that the game is supposed to be a giant open world I imagine this too will be guerrilla's most expensive game.

GoW4 I have no idea about but you can be damn sure that Sony sunk a lot of money into Stig's cancelled IP.

Naugthy Dog keeps hiring more and more people, no surprise there games look better than ever.

 

[dragonbane]

Since when does NG take 4 years to make a game?

Hence "between 3-4"

 

[PayaV87]

ND is an intresting beast. The two project setup may or may not exist anymore.

Their games:

2005 - 2007 Uncharted (2007 Fall)
2007 - 2009 Uncharted 2 (2009 Fall)
----
Two project split
----
Henning - Richmond:
2009 - 2011 Uncharted 3 (2011 Fall)
2011 - 2013 Uncharted 4 pre-production
2013 - 2014 Uncharted 4
2014 Summer: Director change

Druckman -.Straley:
2009 - 2011 The Last of Us pre-production
2011 - 2013 The Last of Us (2013 Summer)
2013 - 2014 Left Behind (2014 Spring)
2014 - 2014 The Last of Us: Remastered (2014 Summer)
2014 - 2016 Uncharted 4 (2016 Spring)

According to this Druckman and Straley only in 2016 may start the preproduction necessarry for The Last of Us 2, and I expect us to get it by 2019.

And ND had to promote the new Leads to head another game around the middle of 2014. who may be working on a new project - possibly new ip.

This is how I see this:

New Leads:
2014 - 2016 New IP pre-production
2016 - 2017 New IP (2017 Fall)

Druckmann - Straley:
2016 - 2017 The Last of Us 2 pre-production
2017 - 2019 The Last of Us 2 (2019 Summer)

Release on PS4 would be:
2014 - The Last of Us: Remastered
2016 - Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
2017 - New IP
2019 - The Last of Us 2

It all depends on the idea, that there is a pre-production team with new leads inside ND.

What do you think?

 

[dr_rus]

ND is an intresting beast. The two project setup may or may not exist anymore.

Their games:

2005 - 2007 Uncharted (2007 Fall)
2007 - 2009 Uncharted 2 (2009 Fall)
----
Two project split
----
Henning - Richmond:
2009 - 2011 Uncharted 3 (2011 Fall)
2011 - 2013 Uncharted 4 pre-production
2013 - 2014 Uncharted 4
2014 Summer: Director change

Druckman -.Straley:
2009 - 2011 The Last of Us pre-production
2011 - 2013 The Last of Us (2013 Summer)
2013 - 2014 Left Behind (2014 Spring)
2014 - 2014 The Last of Us: Remastered (2014 Summer)
2014 - 2016 Uncharted 4 (2016 Spring)

According to this Druckman and Straley only in 2016 may start the preproduction necessarry for The Last of Us 2, and I expect us to get it by 2019.

And ND had to promote the new Leads to head another game around the middle of 2014. who may be working on a new project - possibly new ip.

This is how I see this:

New Leads:
2014 - 2016 New IP pre-production
2016 - 2017 New IP (2017 Fall)

Druckmann - Straley:
2016 - 2017 The Last of Us 2 pre-production
2017 - 2019 The Last of Us 2 (2019 Summer)

Release on PS4 would be:
2014 - The Last of Us: Remastered
2016 - Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
2017 - New IP
2019 - The Last of Us 2

It all depends on the idea, that there is a pre-production team with new leads inside ND.

What do you think?

There is no way you will get a new IP from ND in 2017. I wouldn't count on ND's game post UC4 releasing anytime sooner than the end of 2018 at best.

Pre-production means that a small team is exploring ideas, you still need the full team to do a production and on PS4 that takes 2-3 years for AAA title at the very least.

 

[FelipeMGM]

There is no way you will get a new IP from ND in 2017. I wouldn't count on ND's game post UC4 releasing anytime sooner than the end of 2018 at best.

Pre-production means that a small team is exploring ideas, you still need the full team to do a production and on PS4 that takes 2-3 years for AAA title at the very least.

Yeah I agree, no way a game that started pre production in 2014 (and I dont think it did started in 2014) will be launching in 2017. Esoecially if its new IP

Both Horizon and Dreams started pre production in 2011 and we are supossed to get them in late 2016 (if they dont get delayed). So sorry PayaV87, but I dont think your bets will come true

 

[viHuGi]

There is no way you will get a new IP from ND in 2017. I wouldn't count on ND's game post UC4 releasing anytime sooner than the end of 2018 at best.

Pre-production means that a small team is exploring ideas, you still need the full team to do a production and on PS4 that takes 2-3 years for AAA title at the very least.

2017 seems to soon for me aswell.

 

[Turkoop]

Just imagine R* covered the whole development cost by pre-orders..

 

[viHuGi]

Just imagine R* covered the whole development cost by pre-orders..

GTA is a beast.

 

[zsynqx]

Druckman -.Straley:
2009 - 2011 The Last of Us pre-production
2011 - 2013 The Last of Us (2013 Summer)
2013 - 2014 Left Behind (2014 Spring)
2014 - 2014 The Last of Us: Remastered (2014 Summer)
2014 - 2016 Uncharted 4 (2016 Spring)

Druckmann and Straley didn't work on TLOU remastered, that makes no sense. Hennig/Richmond left in March and Druckley took over Uncharted 4 straight away so the project will have been under their leadership for two years come release.

I am going to assume the two team structure was never fulfilled although they may try to promote new Directors to allow the production/pre-production cycle of Uncharted 3 and the Last of Us to return.

Edit: Also we know for a fact they currently have another project in developement (Frank Tzeng's linkedin) and I wouldn't believe Druckmann who was playing dumb on TLOU2 being in preproduction. They are probably doing a Miyazaki (BB/DS3) and overseeing both projects hence why neil's got co writers on UC4.

 

[dragonbane]

ND is an intresting beast. The two project setup may or may not exist anymore.

We pretty much know for a fact they only have one full production team and a smaller team doing pre-production. During Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us they had another medium sized team starting work on Uncharted 3 and 4, but right now its definitely rather similar to most studios under Sony's belt.

 

[GIANKRATOS]

Since the thread was closed, here is my list of what i would like from the next gow:

-Keep kratos
-Keep it linear, but with extra path (kinda like uncharted 4), maybe leading to an unique mini-boss
-10-12 hours long
-Make kratos a true hero, let him redeem himself and save the humanity
-More combos
-Find the right balance between fight/exploration/puzzle solving
-Introduce new enemies and make them varied, not just estetically (example: the same type of enemie can have slightly different moveset and different armors that make them harder to defeat)
-Varied weapon
-More interaction with the enviroment
-Keep the physical attacks, the possibility of steal the enemie's weapons and the grab introduced in ascension
-Expand the new qte mechanics introduced in ascension
-Give me a glorious soundtrack like in gow3 (the ascension one was good, but not gow1-2-3 level of good)
-More epic bosses (i'm sure there will be)
-Arena mode with a lot of options, maybe even some level playable in coop
-More extras and not unlockable just by finishing the game at any difficulty
-Photomode

 

[zsynqx]

Since the thread was closed, here is my list of what i would like from the next gow:

-Keep kratos
-Keep it linear, but with extra path (kinda like uncharted 4), maybe leading to an unique mini-boss
-10-12 hours long
-Make kratos a true hero, let him redeem himself and save the humanity
-More combos
-Find the right balance between fight/exploration/puzzle solving
-Introduce new enemies and make them varied, not just estetically (example: the same type of enemie can have slightly different moveset and different armors that make them harder to defeat)
-Varied weapon
-More interaction with the enviroment
-Keep the physical attacks, the possibility of steal the enemie's weapons and the grab introduced in ascension
-Expand the new qte mechanics introduced in ascension
-Give me a glorious soundtrack like in gow3 (the ascension one was good, but not gow1-2-3 level of good)
-More epic bosses (i'm sure there will be)
-Arena mode with a lot of options, maybe even some level playable in coop
-More extras and not unlockable just by finishing the game at any difficulty
-Photomode

I feel they should remove the fixed camera. While it may sacrifice some of the cinematic elements of the series, it should help improve the game in a number of other ways. Other than that, I agree with most of yout points.

 

[kyser73]

Dreams has been in development since 2011 and they had to work like crazy to create the tech that can support that games vision.

The Siggraph presentation Alex gave doesn't indicate they were pulling on the resources of the whole studio for all that time tho - the 'Thanks' list on the last slide gives about 5 or 6 names (IIRC) and his narrative during the presentation was that it was a very long but quite small project in terms of the number of people that had working on its core development.

That they went through many iterations before settling on what they did (which also included ditching the renderer they used at the PS4 E3 showcase) doesn't mean they spent wads of cash on the project.

<snip>



Which all could be explained by underwhelming launch sales (most likely due to high expectations) of their most recent titles; SSM's God of War Ascension, Sucker Punch's Infamous Second Son and Evolution's DriveClub (That and the online mess at launch).



You do realize that Until Dawn was rebuilt on the Killzone Shadow Fall's engine, right? A game developed by a second party studio...

So I doubt documentation would be much of a problem here...

I think the layoffs at SP were more down to cost-saving on things like retirement funds. IIRC most of those laid off were the longest standing employees, so the main goal will have been to reduce non-salary overheads. There may have been creative issues as well...

 

[kyser73]

DP

 

[Dreadx_Jecht]

I feel they should remove the fixed camera. While it may sacrifice some of the cinematic elements of the series, it should help improve the game in a number of other ways. Other than that, I agree with most of yout points.

I think the fixed camera is how they can accomplish the graphics that they do.

 

[Caipirinha]

God I'd be so disappointed if the next GoW was another Kratos game.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

God I'd be so disappointed if the next GoW was another Kratos game.

I just want a drastic change of setting, Kratos can stay.

 

[Drayco21]

I just want a drastic change of setting, Kratos can stay.

I still really like the idea of Kratos taking on other mythologies, like the Norse or Egyptian pantheons.

I'll be cool with it if we get a new protagonist, but I'd still like to see Kratos return more.

 

[Callibretto]

I just want a drastic change of setting, Kratos can stay.

Same, I had no problem if its Kratos again as long as they make it clear its not another revenge story. Give Kratos different motivation. I kinda like how GoW3 make it as if Kratos freed humanity soul from the Greek Gods control.

 

[shmoglish]

I still really like the idea of Kratos taking on other mythologies, like the Norse or Egyptian pantheons.

I'll be cool with it if we get a new protagonist, but I'd still like to see Kratos return more.

That would be great. Or hinduism. Lots of Gods. But with a new protagonist. He can be like Kratos.

 

[OléGunner]

I still really like the idea of Kratos taking on other mythologies, like the Norse or Egyptian pantheons.

I'll be cool with it if we get a new protagonist, but I'd still like to see Kratos return more.

Same, I had no problem if its Kratos again as long as they make it clear its not another revenge story. Give Kratos different motivation. I kinda like how GoW3 make it as if Kratos freed humanity soul from the Greek Gods control.

I just want a drastic change of setting, Kratos can stay.

Ahh finally I see some fellow Gaffers who want more Kratos! I'm all warm inside

But seriously, the setting and motivations are the toughest aspects for Barlog and company to figure out. Kratos will remain, the guy is iconic to Playstation, but we need some very interesting motivations and setting scenarios to keep the franchise fresh.

I doubt I'm up for a soft reboot either.

I feel they should remove the fixed camera. While it may sacrifice some of the cinematic elements of the series, it should help improve the game in a number of other ways. Other than that, I agree with most of yout points.

Playing a GoW without a fixed camera would be weird as hell.
It really lends itself to the cinematic aspects and gameplay approach since day 1.

 

[zsynqx]

Playing a GoW without a fixed camera would be weird as hell.
It really lends itself to the cinematic aspects and gameplay approach since day 1.

Yes but how would evolving the series be a bad thing. Might as well have GTA be a top down 2d game as it was like that day 1. You can still be cinematic without a fixed camera and for God of War to be interesting to me, I want it to feel fresh..

 

[viHuGi]

Kratos should stay yep.

 

[Sidewinder]

Kratos should stay yep.

I wouldn't mind either, but new mythology and scenery is an absolute must if they don't want the franchise to fizzle out.

 

[viHuGi]

I wouldn't mind either, but new mythology and scenery is an absolute must if they don't want the franchise to fizzle out.

Egipcians Gods.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Yes but how would evolving the series be a bad thing. Might as well have GTA be a top down 2d game as it was like that day 1. You can still be cinematic without a fixed camera and for God of War to be interesting to me, I want it to feel fresh..

What. GTA going from 2D to 3D was a natural evolution where the formula was kept relatively similar. You know, just like Mario, Zelda, FF and a few hundred other series that made that same exact transition. Changing GoW's camera from fixed to interactive is nothing like that. It's a design decision, one that would fundamentally change the gameplay of the series. And for what gain? Not much from where I'm standing. To me it sounds like you just want change for changes sake, not evolution.

 

[zsynqx]

What. GTA going from 2D to 3D was a natural evolution where the formula was kept relatively similar. You know, just like Mario, Zelda, FF and a few hundred other series that made that same exact transition. Changing GoW's camera from fixed to interactive is nothing like that. It's a design decision, one that would fundamentally change the gameplay of the series. And for what gain? Not much from where I'm standing. To me it sounds like you just want change for changes sake, not evolution.

Maybe you are right. I just have it in my head having god of war style bosses in a dark souls/bloodborne type boss encounter where you have to learn attacks and circle etc. You are probably right that I just want change for changes sake because tbh I am pretty burned out on the series.

 

[sense]

A God of war with a new protagonist will not sell nearly as well as one with Kratos. It would be wise to keep him maybe even do a mgs2 but that might not go down too well

 

[get2sammyb]

I've said in other threads that I think they should 'Assassin's Creed' God of War and create a new character that shares design similarities with Kratos so is still recognisable but is a blank canvas narratively. It didn't really go down well.

I understand commercially why Sony would want to stick with Kratos, but I can't believe fans want more of him. He's an awful character IMO - and shoe-horning him into another mythology would be a mistake.

 

[Nightengale]

I've said in other threads that I think they should 'Assassin's Creed' God of War and create a new character that shares design similarities with Kratos so is still recognisable but is a blank canvas narratively. It didn't really go down well.

I understand commercially why Sony would want to stick with Kratos, but I can't believe fans want more of him. He's an awful character IMO - and shoe-horning him into another mythology would be a mistake.

AssCreed/LoZ approach is also what I think is best for both creative + commercial factors.

Keep the iconic aspects of the character design like white skin and red tattoos. but otherwise make it essentially a new character in a new setting.

 

[Loudninja]

AssCreed/LoZ approach is also what I think is best for both creative + commercial factors.

Keep the iconic aspects of the character design like white skin and red tattoos. but otherwise make it essentially a new character in a new setting.

What woudl be the point then seriously?

 

[unapersson]

AssCreed/LoZ approach is also what I think is best for both creative + commercial factors.

Keep the iconic aspects of the character design like white skin and red tattoos. but otherwise make it essentially a new character in a new setting.

The white skin wouldn't really work with a different character as there's a very story specific reason for it.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

My preference is to have Kratos as the Dante of DMC4 in the new GoW, but have even less screen (game) time. That way, you can add the new character and market Kratos all in one but focus on the main character. Kratos is in the Norse mythology and by the end of the first game, he gets locked up by the new protagonists

Spoiler

probably by being Kratos, a massive dick that pisses him off

. Having Kratos locked up and swearing for revenge (lol) means that the door is always open to bring the raging animal when need to. Kratos says he will kill him, other guy is ok with it since dying in battle is the greatest honor for a fighter. Then focus the game primarily on Loki being a massive dick and him pulling some moves to turn Odin and Thor against the main protagonist.

I can't see getting excited about the story elements for Kratos, his story potential is as dry as it can be.

 

[Cow Goes Moo]

so what do people think the other 3 internal announcements verendus mentioned for this year

im thinking

sony bend
gran turismo
and god of war at psx

 

[Nightengale]

What woudl be the point then seriously?

I'm open to be proven wrong, but honestly I feel like the GoW IP needs to shake up its imagery to be seen as more than just the "angry Kratos" IP, but at the same time, it's difficulty to do that within the confines of the existing story given the ending of III and how iconic Kratos is.

So the win:win scenario is to keep the design and memorability of Kratos, but broaden it by associating the IP with more than just angry Spartan killing Olympians.