Support NeoGAF

[Ogbert]

To an extent yeah, but Returnal is ina genre loved on PC and it flopped. I was dead wromng about it too as i thought it was going to be one of Sony's bigger hits.

The point still stands though. Release Helldivers 2 years after Playstation and it wouldnt be doing the numbers its doing. Likewise Release GOW and Spidrman day and date with Playstation and their numbers would of been much higher.

I feel a lot of people have their heads in the sand over this. Its only a matter of when, not if, Sony starts doing day and date on PC.

That’s a good point on Returnal.

Good game and one you would expect to do well on PC. Probably too expensive. There is a *lot* of choice on Steam and you’ve got to be going some to justify that price tag.

Helldivers hits that sweet spot.

 

[Pejo]

Day one PC, baby!!

Hopefully it also coincides with high quality PC ports, but I don't think that helps with their margins so...

But yes, I agree.

 

[Ogbert]

Call me when Sony releases their games on Xbox....

I will wait....

But Xbox stans really needed this tweet I guess to feel better

Tomorrow is gonna be a bloodbath

I haven’t owned an Xbox since the 360 and their games are bloody awful. That’s why they’re in trouble.

But after the orgy of Schadenfruede on this website, you’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at today’s news.

 

[laynelane]

Pretty much lines up with what Jim Ryan said a few years ago:

Sony's Jim Ryan wants "hundreds of millions" of people to have access to PlayStation titles

PlayStation president and CEO Jim Ryan has noted his frustration that Sony's games can't reach more people.

www.vg247.com

I suppose we'll see soon enough how they plan to expand their reach further.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Anyway, Sony are clearly announcing exactly the same strategy as MS, or at the very least a flexibility towards their strategy.

Instead, everyone will ignore it and hyperventilate tomorrow when MS says the same thing.

 

[Fabieter]

I don’t know… …the more I have thought about this the more concerned I am. I have no problem with PlayStation games going to PC. I am more concerned about the comments in which it sounds like the console focus is getting nudged over a bit. Really, any time I hear a CEO talking about using synergies to be more aggressive and growing margins it raises a red flag. I am starting to get the feeling that retro gaming is my future.

They have grown their margins on ps plus premium by like 30% without giving the customer anything in return.

I also wouldn't be shocked if sony cheap out on Playstation optimization going forward because console players are rather accepting worse graphics and performance than pc players. I wasn't impressed by the helldivers 2 graphics on ps5 at all.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I haven’t owned an Xbox since the 360 and their games are bloody awful. That’s why they’re in trouble.

But after the orgy of Schadenfruede on this website, you’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at today’s news.

Again, Sony will NEVER release its games on Xbox its only real supposed competitor on the home console business.

MAYBE some minor titles to Switch because Sony doesn't do handhelds anymore

So no it's not the same thing. Xbox has been PC Day 1 for years but tomorrow it's completely different:...

MS games on PS5 means it's game over for their consoles

 

[Zathalus]

Are those numbers from steamspy? Care to share a source?

It's was clearly worth it for them but I still think pc players overhyped the sales potential by a good margin not like Sega cares since they have their own data.

No Steamspy is terrible and vastly overinflates sales numbers. Its from https://gamalytic.com/ and you can read the methodology here: https://gamalytic.com/blog/how-to-accurately-estimate-steam-sales
It is far more accurate then just relying on the Boxleiter method: https://vginsights.com/insights/article/how-to-estimate-steam-video-game-sales

Basically for any game a few months old the Owner metric is over 99% accurate.

 

[Raonak]

Sounds like a terrible idea to me

 

[Bry0]

So it's less like whatever the Steam customer numbers are, being pure additions, and more like at least half of those being PS5 purchasers if that was the only system available for the game at launch.

That’s a strong claim to make without supporting data. I find that incredibly hard to believe. At least half?

 

[IDKFA]

I’ve said before it’s all about the account and the sub attached to it these days. A lot of it really just down to generationional taste.

It's true. I wish there was some way that I could play my complete PS, Xbox and Steam library nativity on one single device.

Maybe that's the future we're headed towards. I hope so.

 

[DR3AM]

MLB The Show and Helldivers 2. Two perfect examples of how Live service games should be on every platform.

 

[kazuyamishima]

He confirmed what they said time before, they're pushing their games on Mobile, PS consoles and PC.

But I'm still seeing #SonyToo.

 

[Ogbert]

Again, Sony will NEVER release its games on Xbox it's only real supposed competitor on the home console business.

MAYBE some minor titles to Switch because Sony doesn't do handhelds anymore

So no it's not the same thing. Xbox has been PC Day 1 for years but tomorrow it's completely different:...

MS games on PS5 means it's game over for their consoles

No, it doesn’t meant that at all.

Video games are changing. AAA console gaming is, for the most part, no longer sustainable. For all Sony’s domination in terms of revenue, it isn’t translating into the profit they want.

MS going Multi-Platform doesn’t even really help them because their games are shit. I mean, if they announce Sea of Thieves and Hi Fi rush tomorrow, so what? No one on PS is really going to buy them.

They are all chasing the same thing. GaaS that will make them consistent, continuous profit. And they will absolutely put them on both consoles. You think Sony bought Bungie to make their games exclusive?

MS will continue to make consoles that will be comfortably second or third in the market. But they will have CoD, and they were prepared to spunk 75 billion on that.

 

[yurinka]

I read it as him saying that was the case in the past, growing consoles but now they want to grow their 1st party games for more money

“In the past, we wanted to popularize console and the 1st party titles' main purpose was to make the console popular. It is true, but there is a synergy to it. So if you have strong first party content, not only with our console but also other platforms like computers, 1st party can be grown with multiplatform and that can help operating profit to improve. So that is another one we want to proactively work on.I personally think there are opportunities out there for improvement of margins, so I would like to go aggressive in improving our margin performance.”

This sentence it's out of context. He was asked that since mentioned that if PS5 hardware costs increased over time instead of reducing as happened in previous generations as Totoki said, where are they going to get profitabilty to compensate that lost profit margin. Then he explained that thing of PC ports being very profitable so they are using them for that.

He later also mentioned in a related question that in recent years their profitability has been impacted by costs related to acquisitions made in recent years, and that next FY they will ease.

And he didn't mention it again today, but they are also working to bring their IPs to mobile. Via cloud gaming, via dedicated mobile games and maybe some games also multiplatform like Fortnite/Genshin Impact/PUBG. And as happens with the PC ports they wouldn't be made by the console team, but instead by dedicated teams with expertise in that area.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Anyway, Sony are clearly announcing exactly the same strategy as MS, or at the very least a flexibility towards their strategy.

Instead, everyone will ignore it and hyperventilate tomorrow when MS says the same thing.

It's sad that you might be right, but the ambiguity in Totoki's message, and the timing they're saying it no less (I mean it's fiscal results and all, but they didn't HAVE to talk about this multiplatform stuff or phrase it the way they did knowing what Microsoft's likely announcing tomorrow, if they weren't at least thinking about trending that way as well)...

Well with that it's hard not to at least consider the possibility, right?

 

[DeepEnigma]

MLB The Show and Helldivers 2. Two perfect examples of how Live service games should be on every platform.

And GT7.

I do hope this means both MLB The Show and GT7 comes to the PC. The mod community will be glorious for both those games.

 

[sachos]

It seems like Xbox releasing their games on PC same day was one of the reasons their console started loosing value, will Sony repeat the same mistake? Can they be affected in the same way as Xbox was seemingly affected? Stay tuned for the next episode in NeoGAF Z.

Steam Deck 2 looking fire if this day one reality comes about, i even think Valve should give another try to the Steam Box PC but they have to do it themselves, no third party builders.

 

[MisterXDTV]

He confirmed what they said time before, they're pushing their games on Mobile, PS consoles and PC.

But I'm still seeing #SonyToo.

Exactly what they already do....

I'm not surprised. Tomorrow it's a big day....

 

[DeepEnigma]

It seems like Xbox releasing their games on PC same day was one of the reasons their console started loosing value,

Their console/brand started losing value long before that decision. They have not recovered since the XB1 fiasco, and their software output has been subpar for quite a while now. If they had banger after banger, it would be a different story.

 

[Ogbert]

It's sad that you might be right, but the ambiguity in Totoki's message, and the timing they're saying it no less (I mean it's fiscal results and all, but they didn't HAVE to talk about this multiplatform stuff or phrase it the way they did knowing what Microsoft's likely announcing tomorrow, if they weren't at least thinking about trending that way as well)...

Well with that it's hard not to at least consider the possibility, right?

The cynic in me thinks they’re simply burying bad news 24 hours in advance of what is likely to be an MS shitshow.

Phil in a leather jacket with his weird animatronic mannerisms, on a podcast no less.

It’s going to be glorious.

 

[Fabieter]

No Steamspy is terrible and vastly overinflates sales numbers. Its from https://gamalytic.com/ and you can read the methodology here: https://gamalytic.com/blog/how-to-accurately-estimate-steam-sales
It is far more accurate then just relying on the Boxleiter method: https://vginsights.com/insights/article/how-to-estimate-steam-video-game-sales

Basically for any game a few months old the Owner metric is over 99% accurate.

They give a pretty big range and you taking the highest possible number for an argument.

Like I said its certainly worth it for sega so whatever.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The cynic in me thinks they’re simply burying bad news 24 hours in advance of what is likely to be an MS shitshow.

No? This is the day that was always scheduled for their earnings report. MS is the one that scheduled the 15th just recently.

 

[MisterXDTV]

It seems like Xbox releasing their games on PC same day was one of the reasons their console started loosing value, will Sony repeat the same mistake? Can they be affected in the same way as Xbox was seemingly affected? Stay tuned for the next episode in NeoGAF Z.

I don't think they would do Day 1, they could shorten the gap though

Anyway Playstation consoles will always come first for Sony, it's probably the most valuable property they have...

They are not going to jeopardize that in any way

 

[Neofire]

Sounds like a terrible idea to me

It is and it will be Sony's undoing. Unfortunately the leadership at Playstation has changed so much and alot of the "sold to the highest bidder" minded individuals have been running the company. Either way Sony will do whatever they think is best but for people who have vested into the ecosystem I would think twice about investing in the console moving forward.

A few million(if that) sales on PC isn't going to bankroll billions in R&D to prop up every console iteration.

 

[Ogbert]

No? This is the day that was always scheduled for their earnings report. MS is the one that scheduled the 15th just recently.

True. But there was no real need to make this announcement on strategy. At least, not as explicitly as they did.

I might be being overly cynical. Just seems a bit of a coincidence.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I don't think they would do Day 1, they could shorten the gap though

Anyway Playstation consoles will always come first for Sony, it's probably the most valuable property they have...

They are not going to jeopardize that in any way

And remember, this COO is interim. We all said that he would have bean counter speak when this was announced last year.

True. But there was no real need to make this announcement strategy. At least, not as explicitly as they did.

I might be being overly cynical. Just seems a bit of a coincidence.

They always have, see above as well. Not a coincidence, these corporations work much closer behind the scenes than we know.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Exactly what they already do....

I'm not surprised. Tomorrow it's a big day....

Yeah, it's very interesting. A lot of people just are making assumptions or twisting his words.

 

[BennyBlanco]

That’s a strong claim to make without supporting data. I find that incredibly hard to believe. At least half?

That guy has been writing walls of text about why Sony is abandoning their PC initiative for years that have 0 connections to reality

 

[daninthemix]

Their console/brand started losing value long before that decision. They have not recovered since the XB1 fiasco, and their software output has been subpar for quite a while now. If they had banger after banger, it would be a different story.

This. They had banger after banger on the Xbox 360 and they haven't recaptured that.

 

[Bernardougf]

You get like double to triple the performance of a console for 2k. A console like experience might costs 1k at most.

I would not expend 2 K to have a PC for other games and a Ps5 for exclusives.. but Ill happily expended 2k for playing all the games in one platform and in the best way possible.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Agree.

Record high revenue don’t mean shit if games costs so much to make.

 

[Raonak]

btw; day 1 PC is not happening for games, unless they are live service or remakes/remasters because of a few factors:

-QA for PC releases takes substanatially longer than PS5 releases; they won't delay a PS5 version of a game
-Nobody wants buggy PC versions (not that it hasn't stopped them, or other companies before)
-Sony bought a dedicated studios to handle porting PC games (meaning they can only port games that are already complete)
-Double dippers provide big bucks without cannibalising sales

 

[onQ123]

To an extent yeah, but Returnal is ina genre loved on PC and it flopped. I was dead wromng about it too as i thought it was going to be one of Sony's bigger hits.

The point still stands though. Release Helldivers 2 years after Playstation and it wouldnt be doing the numbers its doing. Likewise Release GOW and Spidrman day and date with Playstation and their numbers would of been much higher.

I feel a lot of people have their heads in the sand over this. Its only a matter of when, not if, Sony starts doing day and date on PC.

But Returnal didn't do too well on PS5 to begin with

 

[Ogbert]

This. They had banger after banger on the Xbox 360 and they haven't recaptured that.

It always was, always is and always will be about the games.

Nintendo have a chance of taking the ‘greatest selling console of all time trophy’ with a device that has the same GPU as modern toasters.

And that’s because their games are not only very good, but very consistent.

 

[Zathalus]

They give a pretty big range and you taking the highest possible number for an argument.

Like I said its certainly worth it for sega so whatever.

The range is only for numbers sold directly on Steam, the 'Owners' metric includes all sales from resellers and bundles such as Green Man or Humble. It also includes those who have purchased a game and not even played it yet. Owners would be the metric you would use if you are talking about game sales so I used that.

And it's obviously worth it for Sega considering the sales numbers, which was the original point I was addressing.

 

[Fabieter]

But Returnal didn't do too well on PS5 to begin with

According to a website someone posted earlier its did around 100k which Is insanely bad.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The cynic in me thinks they’re simply burying bad news 24 hours in advance of what is likely to be an MS shitshow.

Phil in a leather jacket with his weird animatronic mannerisms, on a podcast no less.

It’s going to be glorious.

That is a possibility.

Although IMO, it'd have to be nothing short of Microsoft going full multiplatform publisher (there could be great irony though if they're still sticking to "hardware" i.e PC-like gaming devices, but not "consoles". Which is a shift I'm expecting MS to do, just makes too much sense in their case).

 

[Fabieter]

The range is only for numbers sold directly on Steam, the 'Owners' metric includes all sales from resellers and bundles such as Green Man or Humble. It also includes those who have purchased a game and not even played it yet. Owners would be the metric you would use if you are talking about game sales so I used that.

And it's obviously worth it for Sega considering the sales numbers, which was the original point I was addressing.

However, there is currently no way to know exactly how much the game has made selling on third-party sites or in bundles. Reads like a good estimate but I wouldn't take this for face value.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/s/1IeX2icgGw

According to your site there are 1.3M Owners for the pc version that would put the switch, ps5 and xbox version at arround 400k which I think is hard to believe.

 

[RickMasters]

It's true. I wish there was some way that I could play my complete PS, Xbox and Steam library nativity on one single device.

Maybe that's the future we're headed towards. I hope so.

To be honest one box with all the games and the subs is ideal. I think I’d like to be able to modify/ customise the box though. So we can have whatever specs we want. The steam box idea really is the future of the console I think. But it will some more refined idea of that concept. I think/hope. Slotting in a GPU, CPU, more ram should be as fool proof as possible for average joe. If they get the form to that level of simplicity and and console like elegance then that would be ideal.

 

[RickMasters]

According to a website someone posted earlier its did around 100k which Is insanely bad.

All the same, games like returnal absolutely need to exist. They are unique and raw in terms of game mechanics. Such games should always exist even if a small number plays them. I feel that way about others genres like old school shmups and even most JRPGs. They may be niche but they should always exist. And they will have their fans. I love returnal. Very much my kind of game. It doesn’t have all the fluff of so many AAA games.

 

[Zathalus]

However, there is currently no way to know exactly how much the game has made selling on third-party sites or in bundles. Reads like a good estimate but I wouldn't take this for face value.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/s/1IeX2icgGw

According to your site there are 1.3M Owners for the pc version that would put the switch, ps5 and xbox version at arround 400k which I think is hard to believe.

Those numbers are from April 2023, number of PC sales were around 700k. The game is on Gamepass as well so I doubt Xbox sales were that high and as for PS5 there was zero discount or upgrade path from the PS4 version (that had been out for years already) so I would doubt if the PS5 SKU saw any massive sales numbers.

 

[sachos]

GoW has a 73.5K Steam player peak, you guys think if they had released it day one it would have achieved 10x players? 15x? I wonder how much the improvement has to be to recoup the potential loses of consoles and game sold through the PSN store be.

 

[Ogbert]

GoW has a 73.5K Steam player peak, you guys think if they had released it day one it would have achieved 10x players? 15x? I wonder how much the improvement has to be to recoup the potential loses of consoles and game sold through the PSN store be.

No.

PC gamers have higher standards, especially when it comes to price versus quality.

 

[Little Chicken]

It's true. I wish there was some way that I could play my complete PS, Xbox and Steam library nativity on one single device.

Maybe that's the future we're headed towards. I hope so.

Agreed. Having different games bound to each system and three separate console subscriptions is getting cumbersome. It feels totally unnecessary and artificial in 2024.

I just want all my licenses on PC, I don't care if it's across multiple storefronts, but the one device is what matters to me.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No.

PC gamers have higher standards, especially when it comes to price versus quality.

 

[El Muerto]

Release Tokyo Jungle on Steam and watch it blow up. It would be day 1 for me, miss that game.

 

[bender]

And GT7.

 

[WitchHunter]

What millions more? It's not like all of the PC buyers would be strictly them on top of console buyers. A decent portion will comprise of console owners who jumped to PC, so it's a lateral transfer of the sale in that sense. Not an additional sale.



It'd be ironic, in Sony giving a better reason to buy an Xbox (device) than a PlayStation console.

It's 50/50 at this point it could actually happen, which is the concerning part.



Hiroki Totoki is the President of Sony Corp, he's not some C-level suit. Basically he's Sony's equivalent of Brad Smith.

There are the "la li lu le lo"... above these corps. They told him what to do.... AI must flyyyy. : DD

 

[Astray]

It would be easier if Valve just released steamos 3.0 to all systems instead of making a whole box for it. You get the console/PC fusion without needing to buy a set top box

Handhelds are a more appealing and interesting form factor.

The problem with that is, these manufacturers don't get Steam Royalties (and Valve won't let them), so they will have to sell the hardware at a profit. Not to mention the subtle variations that will definitely occur between manufacturer and manufacturer.

Making a console, subsidizing and shipping it at scale is HARD.