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[Sad Affleck]

Price of Windows was not even included. Many of the prices were temporary and apparently US Labor Day prices as well. Consoles also get discounts on these days like Black Friday too.

A potato should be running CS GO pretty easily, because it's designed to be run by potatoes these days. Game is running on a very old engine, and is not remotely cutting edge anymore.

The DOOM one is impressive. But again it's running 60 fps medium settings as per the video. Which is what the PS4 vanilla would provide. The PS4 costs $20 less than the prices of these components on sale. And this will be $100 less when the PS4 Slim comes out at $299.

The PS4 Pro at $399 would be actually more powerful than the $400 computer here (which is actually more again because the price of Windows was not included).

Also not included was the price of the keyboard and mouse or controller if person wants controller gaming (not that everyone buys a new one when buying a new PC, to be fair).

This computer is also lacking a BluRay drive or even DVD drive apparently. Yes, PC gaming is digital now, but still, compare to a PS4 and that is a drawback. And that would add cost to the PC to make it equivalent. Still have to install Windows, so you either need the disc drive or a USB installer.

That computer is cheap, indeed, and a great value. But a number of costs weren't mentioned for the sake of convenience. So it's not exactly a balanced comparison.

I understand the interest in advertising the merits of PC gaming, as I am also an avid PC gamer, but doing it in a slightly misleading or disingenuous way and hiding some of the costs, and omitting details like making sure to point out it didn't include the price of a DVD drive or a Windows 7/8/10 license, is not the way to do it.

These reasons actually explain why the PS4 Pro is modelling themselves more like PC. Not really "competing" neck and neck with high end GPUs on raw hardware power like a Titan X Pascal, which is impossible, but it is updating more frequently with the times just like a mid-range PC upgrade would do.

Your comparison isn't fair either though, is it? You leave out the cost of PS Plus, you include the Blu-Ray drive which doesn't have a use on PC for gaming and you don't assign any monetary value to the fact that a PC can do much more than a simple games machine.

 

[potatohead]

Your comparison isn't fair either though, is it? You leave out the cost of PS Plus, you include the Blu-Ray drive which doesn't have a use on PC for gaming and you don't assign any monetary value to the fact that a PC can do much more than a simple games machine.

Well are we talking about games machines or not? All entertainment, or all use? It really depends on what we want to talk about.

BluRay might not matter to most people, I agree. You still need a USB or a DVD drive to install Windows though. And a Windows license key.

Those other non-gaming purpose stuff might have cost as well, unless you are smart and use LibreOffice and other free versions of software. I'm not going to know if you pirate video editing software or not. All these ancillary costs depend on the user. You can even pirate Windows 7 or 8 I'm sure, maybe even 10 too.

Agree that PS Plus is extra cost though. But I was not being insincere. I was just pointing out what was incorrect in his own comparisons. There's missing costs from the calculation.

At the end of the video he makes it quite clear also that many games that would run on PS4 (Dirt Rally, Far Cry 4, Project Cars, etc) would not run as well on this $400 PC.

So how comparable is it really to a console? DOOM is a great example of a game that would run on a low spec PC machine. But in the video he also points out, yes, at this cost level, you are giving up ability to run a lot of other games, mainly because of the weak CPU.

For a PC hardware making guide, this is giving up a lot of the gaming aspect, especially for current games, let alone newer games (that are already running on or will be running on PS4).

As a HTPC guide to sit next to the TV to run older games though. I think this is more fitting of a PC.

 

[Vipu]

Well are we talking about games machines or not? All entertainment, or all use? It really depends on what we want to talk about.

BluRay might not matter to most people, I agree. You still need a USB or a DVD drive to install Windows though. And a Windows license key.

Those other non-gaming purpose stuff might have cost as well, unless you are smart and use LibreOffice and other free versions of software. I'm not going to know if you pirate video editing software or not. All these ancillary costs depend on the user. You can even pirate Windows 7 or 8 I'm sure, maybe even 10 too.

Agree that PS Plus is extra cost though. But I was not being insincere. I was just pointing out what was incorrect in his own comparisons. There's missing costs from the calculation.

At the end of the video he makes it quite clear also that many games that would run on PS4 (Dirt Rally, Far Cry 4, Project Cars, etc) would not run as well on this $400 PC.

So how comparable is it really to a console? DOOM is a great example of a game that would run on a low spec PC machine. But in the video he also points out, yes, at this cost level, you are giving up ability to run a lot of other games, mainly because of the weak CPU.

For a PC hardware making guide, this is giving up a lot of the gaming aspect, especially for current games, let alone newer games (that are already running on or will be running on PS4).

As a HTPC guide to sit next to the TV to run older games though. I think this is more fitting of a PC.

Not sure what settings he had in Dirt etc, but im sure it would run better if he lowered res from 1080p or just lower settings to get closer to console level.

And yes starting cost console vs pc is very close to same BUT after that you can upgrade like just gpu and then you are winning consoles by miles.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I don't know why anybody would get their ideas from r/pcmasterrace

 

[potatohead]

Not sure what settings he had in Dirt etc, but im sure it would run better if he lowered res from 1080p or just lower settings to get closer to console level.

And yes starting cost console vs pc is very close to same BUT after that you can upgrade like just gpu and then you are winning consoles by miles.

Agree, he could've lowered settings for better overall experience.

In this specific case, upgrading the GPU alone would not give a significantly better experience in all games. It may give better experience in some (like DOOM running on Vulkan like he was doing, and older games that aren't as CPU bound anymore). But many newer games as stated in the video were limited by the CPU.

I would simply just try to budget closer to $600 to get an overall better computer, similar price to consoles (including PS Plus/Xbox Live cost), and there would just be a much better experience.

Install VLC and some codec pack, get Libre Office, and 7zip or other stuff, and bam, you have a much better experience than by limiting artificially to $400.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Well are we talking about games machines or not? All entertainment, or all use? It really depends on what we want to talk about.

Don't worry, I agree with you in general. The comparison between a PS4 Pro and a PC that is roughly on the same hardware level should be based on their abilities as games machines first and foremost, otherwise it's really hard to arrive to any sort of meaningful conclusion. The PS4 has Blu-Ray, the PC is a full computer, some might not care about the media capabilities and others might not care about the PC functions. In my opinion, a fair comparison between a console and a PC as games machines should include:

For console, the price of the hardware plus the cost of an annual online subscription for ar least three or four years (the typical lifespan of a gaming PC before you might start thinking about upgrading).

For PC, the price of the full system including Windows, keyboard and mouse.

 

[potatohead]

Don't worry, I agree with you in general. The comparison between a PS4 Pro and a PC that is roughly on the same hardware level should be based on their abilities as games machines first and foremost, otherwise it's really hard to arrive to any sort of meaningful conclusion. The PS4 has Blu-Ray, the PC is a full computer, some might not care about the media capabilities and others might not care about the PC functions. In my opinion, a fair comparison between a console and a PC as games machines should include:

For console, the price of the hardware plus the cost of an annual online subscription for ar least three or four years (the typical lifespan of a gaming PC before you might start thinking about upgrading).

For PC, the price of the full system including Windows, keyboard and mouse.

Agree, very sensible.

Yea, but then again i have seen some of these 400$ pc builds that have i3/i5 and that would be much less limit.

But I agree spending just bit more would be same/better exp than console and upgrading would be possible after to get much better exp.

Yep very true, i3 is quite a good chip even in desktop.

 

[Vipu]

Agree, he could've lowered settings for better overall experience.

In this specific case, upgrading the GPU alone would not give a significantly better experience in all games. It may give better experience in some (like DOOM running on Vulkan like he was doing, and older games that aren't as CPU bound anymore). But many newer games as stated in the video were limited by the CPU.

I would simply just try to budget closer to $600 to get an overall better computer, similar price to consoles (including PS Plus/Xbox Live cost), and there would just be a much better experience.

Install VLC and some codec pack, get Libre Office, and 7zip or other stuff, and bam, you have a much better experience than by limiting artificially to $400.

Yea, but then again i have seen some of these 400$ pc builds that have i3/i5 and that would be much less limit.

But I agree spending just bit more would be same/better exp than console and upgrading would be possible after to get much better exp.

 

[Abilidebob]

BluRay might not matter to most people, I agree. You still need a USB or a DVD drive to install Windows though. And a Windows license key.

You mean just a USB port right? It's been at least 8 years since I last used a DVD to install Windows.

 

[fvng]

If I had to guess I would have said it wasn't PC but Apple who clearly demonstrates to all companies that consumers are willing to upgrade their tech every two years even if they're happy with what they have

 

[potatohead]

You mean just a USB port right? It's been at least 8 years since I last used a DVD to install Windows.

Literally says USB right there in that post.

 

[Sad Affleck]

If I had to guess I would have said it wasn't PC but Apple who clearly demonstrates to all companies that consumers are willing to upgrade their tech every two years even if they're happy with what they have

I think both companies knew right from the start that these consoles weren't going to last. It was the best they could do at the time but they were both significantly behind most gaming PCs even at launch. A mid-gen refresh allows Sony and Microsoft to update the hardware and keep pace with entry-level gaming rigs for a few more years, until tech can provide a sufficient leap in power for a whole new generation.

At the same time it is noteworthy that PC gaming managed to become such a factor in the market that whole consoles are being built to contain it, while just a few years ago it was considered a dead platform. Truly impressive turnaround.

 

[Abilidebob]

Literally says USB right there in that post.

Thought you meant a USB DVD drive.

 

[potatohead]

Thought you meant a USB DVD drive.

Oh. Didn't think of that.

Then no

 

[chromatic9]

At the same time it is noteworthy that PC gaming managed to become such a factor in the market that whole consoles are being built to contain it, while just a few years ago it was considered a dead platform. Truly impressive turnaround.

Do you guys remember what Neogaf looked like back then, very console centric, coding to the metal was considered fact across every game. Now Neogaf often resembles overclock.net at times, it's quite shocking how things have changed.

A lot of podcasts were so Xbox 360 based, you could be forgiven they were on MS payroll, now its half PC talk. (yes I know MS make windows)

Also PC parts/rigs don't need as much replacement. Back then in 2005/6 a high end GPU was 100w, not only could console be on the same playing field for a few years with a mass market unit, PC guys faced power increments, top GPU shortly after went to 150w, then 200W and finally up to 300W which means new PSU, also CPU went through a surge of improvements and cores and power increases.

You can play recent titles on 6 year old CPUs just fine. DDR3 is still very good, a 1tb drive is still meaningful. I bought a 1tb drive for $60 back in 2009/10 and they're still around that price and sell. A power supply is good for a long time now, no need to increase or get new connectors, CPUs are getting lower in power and GPU's tend to be 200w instead of pushing 300w for most buyers. Cases are decent now. You just need to upgrade your GPU in the last six years but in the past a new rig was needed regularly for all the changes that occurred.

 

[LelouchZero]

I think both companies knew right from the start that these consoles weren't going to last. It was the best they could do at the time but they were both significantly behind most gaming PCs even at launch. A mid-gen refresh allows Sony and Microsoft to update the hardware and keep pace with entry-level gaming rigs for a few more years, until tech can provide a sufficient leap in power for a whole new generation.

At the same time it is noteworthy that PC gaming managed to become such a factor in the market that whole consoles are being built to contain it, while just a few years ago it was considered a dead platform. Truly impressive turnaround.

Yeah it's crazy, even when Cerny was up on stage during the 2013 PlayStation meeting he talks about the technology used in the PS4 and continuously mentions the PC hardware used in the console alongside mentioning the benefits of utilizing a PC GPU and an x86 CPU.

Do you guys remember what Neogaf looked like back then, very console centric, coding to the metal was considered fact across every game. Now Neogaf often resembles overclock.net at times, it's quite shocking how things have changed.

A lot of podcasts were so Xbox 360 based, you could be forgiven they were on MS payroll, now its half PC talk. (yes I know MS make windows)

Also PC parts/rigs don't need as much replacement. Back then in 2005/6 a high end GPU was 100w, not only could console be on the same playing field for a few years with a mass market unit, PC guys faced power increments, top GPU shortly after went to 150w, then 200W and finally up to 300W which means new PSU, also CPU went through a surge of improvements and cores and power increases.

You can play recent titles on 6 year old CPUs just fine. DDR3 is still very good, a 1tb drive is still meaningful. I bought a 1tb drive for $60 back in 2009/10 and they're still around that price and sell. A power supply is good for a long time now, no need to increase or get new connectors, CPUs are getting lower in power and GPU's tend to be 200w instead of pushing 300w for most buyers. Cases are decent now. You just need to upgrade your GPU in the last six years but in the past a new rig was needed regularly for all the changes that occurred.

PC Gaming has gotten a ton more affordable, accessible and mainstream, it's incredible!

It's funny that you mention OCN, I remember discussing the the hardware of the PS4 dev kit in 2012 on there almost 4 years ago.

Wow, and now we're already talking about a new PS4 console which is releasing very soon.

 

[Forever Changes]

Do you guys remember what Neogaf looked like back then, very console centric, coding to the metal was considered fact across every game. Now Neogaf often resembles overclock.net at times, it's quite shocking how things have changed.

A lot of podcasts were so Xbox 360 based, you could be forgiven they were on MS payroll, now its half PC talk. (yes I know MS make windows)

Also PC parts/rigs don't need as much replacement. Back then in 2005/6 a high end GPU was 100w, not only could console be on the same playing field for a few years with a mass market unit, PC guys faced power increments, top GPU shortly after went to 150w, then 200W and finally up to 300W which means new PSU, also CPU went through a surge of improvements and cores and power increases.

You can play recent titles on 6 year old CPUs just fine. DDR3 is still very good, a 1tb drive is still meaningful. I bought a 1tb drive for $60 back in 2009/10 and they're still around that price and sell. A power supply is good for a long time now, no need to increase or get new connectors, CPUs are getting lower in power and GPU's tend to be 200w instead of pushing 300w for most buyers. Cases are decent now. You just need to upgrade your GPU in the last six years but in the past a new rig was needed regularly for all the changes that occurred.

Do you think a lot of this is also down to the fact that both consoles have paid online now? plus how underpowered they are relative to last gen?

 

[Apparition]

"We wanted to keep those people within our ecosystem by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]."

It is still an expensive proposition. If you spent $300-400 on your OG PS4, you may be able to get $150-200 back selling it. So the total cost of the combined consoles will be $500-650 which is certainly not cheap.

 

[Steel]

It is still an expensive proposition. If you spent $300-400 on your OG PS4, you may be able to get $150-200 back selling it. So the total cost of the combined consoles will be $500-650 which is certainly not cheap.

$125 is the gamestop trade-in value.