Support NeoGAF

[N21]

Minecraft, Super Meat Boy, PUBG, Undertale and Rocket League have all done this.

I have acknowledge those games already. I doubt games like Armello, SOMA and many others will see the same success like the ones you mentioned. Why? Because the interest of those games have waned.

6 months late is better than never

And there are countless examples of games doing well despite a staggered release, your post is steeped in ignorance.

6 months is okay and I don't mind an exclusive deal, but after 6 months and no deal, I've probably lost interest and I don't doubt many have too.

That is still ignorance.

Not every Dev needs to be a mega hit to find success on a platform.

Indie Devs often don't have the luxury of launching on multiple platforms day one due to things like staff, budget, marketing, platform knowledge etc.

Also how do you want them truly to know how enticing their game is without launching first.

Just imagining Rocket League not launching first on PS4/PC because of them not having the budget to do the XB1 version. In that instance they not only would of likely ran out of money before they would have completed the XB1 version they may not have found the same success they did at the time they would have launched waiting to complete the Xbox port.

Alternatively if they did find the same success would they have been able to keep the game alive in the same way they did with the PC/PS4 due to vastly underestimating their success and having to rewrite their network setup among other things. More than likely not because if you watching the noclips interviews you will see they just about got by with the complications at launch with PC/PS4 adding another platform to the mix would have been an even bigger disaster.

Rocket League was a success due to its uniqueness and that was enticing enough for the other platforms to wait. Many games don't have that luxury and never will. Also, the fact that a developer can have the audacity to charge me the same price they charged someone else 6months - 2 years ago is laughable.

 

[King_Moc]

I have acknowledge those games already. I doubt games like Armello, SOMA and many others will see the same success like the ones you mentioned. Why? Because the interest of those games have waned.



6 months is okay and I don't mind an exclusive deal, but after 6 months and no deal, I've probably lost interest and I don't doubt many have too.

And what do you propose to do about this? You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about how indie development works. There is no large pool of resources or a publisher involved. Often it's just a bunch of people who've ditched their jobs in order to try and get their own game out. If they release on one platform first, it;s very likely that they were forced to do so due to circumstance.

This is why the parity clause sucks. It attempts to force them to initially target a platform that very likely would provide them with lower sales than several of the other ones.

 

[amdb00mer]

My name is Phil Spencer and I'll say anything to make me look like the good guy

This guy gets it

Wow. You guys are great... /s

 

[*Splinter]

6 months is okay and I don't mind an exclusive deal, but after 6 months and no deal, I've probably lost interest and I don't doubt many have too.

Ori and the Blind Forest is a game I've paid no attention to as it'll likely never be available on a platform I own.

If it released on PS4 tomorrow I'd buy it because it's a highly rated game in a genre I enjoy.

Am I supposed to care that other people played it years ago? Fucking weird.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Of course he would. The question is if he would have the same position if Xbox were leading the race.

Idk? Who really care we can't do pretend fantasies when discussing these things

 

[N21]

And what do you propose to do about this? You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about how indie development works. There is no large pool of resources or a publisher involved. Often it's just a bunch of people who've ditched their jobs in order to try and get their own game out. If they release on one platform first, it;s very likely that they were forced to do so due to circumstance.

This is why the parity clause sucks. It attempts to force them to initially target a platform that very likely would provide them with lower sales than several of the other ones.

You talk about them going in all but then say it's okay for them to release on one platform due to circumstances, why?

I would think developers need to give clear communication.

Ori and the Blind Forest is a game I've paid no attention to as it'll likely never be available on a platform I own.

If it released on PS4 tomorrow I'd buy it because it's a highly rated game in a genre I enjoy.

You clearly did pay attention to Ori if you know what the game is called.

Am I supposed to care that other people played it years ago? Fucking weird.[/QUOTE

If the developer release their game a few months later on that platform without no special introductory price which it's on sales on the platforms, people aren't going to be pleased.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I mean yeah, fuck Sony on this but..

My name is Phil Spencer and I'll say anything to make me look like the good guy

Also this.

 

[Trup1aya]

I have acknowledge those games already. I doubt games like Armello, SOMA and many others will see the same success like the ones you mentioned. Why? Because the interest of those games have waned.



6 months is okay and I don't mind an exclusive deal, but after 6 months and no deal, I've probably lost interest and I don't doubt many have too.



Rocket League was a success due to its uniqueness and that was enticing enough for the other platforms to wait. Many games don't have that luxury and never will. Also, the fact that a developer can have the audacity to charge me the same price they charged someone else 6months - 2 years ago is laughable.

You are reaching man. more often than not , if a game is good, people will play it when it becomes available to them. There are plenty examples of this.

Sure some games dont sure so well with this model, but it's usually because they game wasn't all that.

 

[Duchess O'Death]

My name is Phil Spencer and I'll say anything to make me look like the good guy

I don't get how people still believe him.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

I don't get how people still believe him.

Because it's xbox's actual policy, you can choose to be a cynical console warrior if you want. Maybe one of the manufactures hell or even steam will send you a check

 

[Luminaire]

Dude should be a politician.

 

[Head.spawn]

It's perfect for this game mode too.

- no squads are parties
- needs 100 people for a full room
- would decrease times to start match and et into fuller games

I'm just thinking out loud here, but if you were running around in a green hoodie, building stuff and off in the distance you see some goofy blue beanie wearing mofo derping around looking for ammo.. haha. That would be perfect.

Of course he would. The question is if he would have the same position if Xbox were leading the race.

Probably not, but it's not the case in this particular universe so no need to trot that one out again. We do know that if they were leading the race that they would at least be disingenuous lying douche nuggets about their position. That's at least worth something.

I don't get how people still believe him.

Considering Sony lead people on about their position on crossplatform play for the last decade and a half; even after the moment when they were put to task still poured out the same stupid tagline pretending they were pro-crossplay with other consoles. Then at the absolute boiling point, "wut about the kids? derph". It may not have been ideal but at least MS's position on the matter was always a known quantity... last gen they were straight forward in saying they were not doing it and this generation when their position changed it was also made absolutely clear.

No attempts to obscure it ever like "oh cross play, you know we love crossplay and have a long history of it... of course we're happy to talk to devs about this!!" - paraphrased Sony.

 

[Duchess O'Death]

Because it's xbox's actual policy, you can choose to be a cynical console warrior if you want. Maybe one of the manufactures hell or even steam will send you a check

Lol I didn't mean about cross play. Just why people still believe every he says when he he pretends to be the good guy.

 

[N21]

You are reaching man. more often than not , if a game is good, people will play it when it becomes available to them. There are plenty examples of this.

Sure some games dont sure so well with this model, but it's usually because they game wasn't all that.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I already said that. If a game is enticing enough, the platform/s that didn't receive it on initial release won't mind waiting. Unfortunately, that isn't the same for many games. Do you think if Broforce came to XB1 it would be a hit?

 

[Sunset Samurai]

My name is Phil Spencer and I'll say anything to make me look like the good guy

It could be genuine 🤷🏽*♂️

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Lol I didn't mean about cross play. Just why people still believe every he says when he he pretends to be the good guy.

I mean that's fair for sure, but what does that have to actually do with this thread? Xbox has a legit system for cross play, clearly this just isn't "pr" as seen by other games.

 

[Alebrije]

My name is Phil Spencer and I'll say anything to make me look like the good guy

Agree, also suddenly crossplay has become the non plus ultra of videogames so Sony is evil.

 

[Maximo]

my name is corporate shill and i'm gonna post some dumb stuff cause i can't accept that sony is being fucking pathetic in this situation

Why not both? Sony is a piece of shit and completely in the wrong while Phill will say whatever to look like a angel.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Agree, also suddenly crossplay has become the non plus ultra of videogames so Sony is evil.

Post like this is why we will never have crossplay; if im sony and I see so many free warrior post defending this bs why would i even implement this? I hope some of you guys are getting paid at least

 

[watdaeff4]

I wish they'd strike a deal where MS taught Sony how to change user names/gamer tags in exchange for cross play.

A guy can dream.

Though MS will also teach them how to charge $10 for that service (which is BS IMO) but that's another thread.

 

[Kayant]

Rocket League was a success due to its uniqueness and that was enticing enough for the other platforms to wait. Many games don't have that luxury and never will.

Rocket League could have not existed also in your scenario if they ran out of money.

Also, the fact that a developer can have the audacity to charge me the same price they charged someone else 6months - 2 years ago is laughable.

Well it's your choice to buy it at whatever price you want. Then again why a game is magically devalued because it launched on one platform first(Of which you either choice not to buy on or don't have access to) escapes me when the game is new! to the platform of your choice.

 

[Apathy]

Don't be lazy

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=245644508&postcount=2414


I believe they already edited the patch notes to take out the MS policy part though.

Hypocrisy thy name is Spencer

I do find it interesting those that said"fuck Sony" and the people that are well known Xbox fans don't say anything about this.

 

[King_Moc]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I already said that. If a game is enticing enough, the platform/s that didn't receive it on initial release won't mind waiting. Unfortunately, that isn't the same for many games. Do you think if Broforce came to XB1 it would be a hit?

No, because Broforce is shit.

 

[The Last Wizard]

My name is Phil Spencer and I'll say anything to make me look like the good guy

Pretty much.

 

[Trup1aya]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I already said that. If a game is enticing enough, the platform/s that didn't receive it on initial release won't mind waiting. Unfortunately, that isn't the same for many games. Do you think if Broforce came to XB1 it would be a hit?

Probably not, because the game is already available to most people - xbox owners probably already played the game on iOS/ Android if they were interested. People play games when they become available to them. Bro force is basically available to everyone.

If a game can't be successful with a staggered launch, then it probably wouldn't have faired any better with a universal launch. If a game isn't compelling, the cost of the port probably wont be covered by the additional sales

There are tons of examples off staggered releases doing well. More than anything else its about quality.

 

[tlop53]

I didn't realize the amount of shareholders in this thread?! Wow.

thats rich coming from you

 

[Alebrije]

Post like this is why we will never have crossplay; if im sony and I see so many free warrior post defending this bs why would i even implement this? I hope some of you guys are getting paid at least

The only one getting pay for this is Phil Spencer, he changed his friendly approach of "all we are a family" to a more aggressive one, do not blame him since he needs to sell Xbone. Good he shows his true skin and not that fake happy family friends one.

Crossplay where you can not invite your friends from Xbone and just play with random players means nothing.

 

[Head.spawn]

Hypocrisy thy name is Spencer

I do find it interesting those that said"fuck Sony" and the people that are well known Xbox fans don't say anything about this.

Except the whole... "I would have liked to see them leave it on" part.

Notice the "them" in particular.

There is a reason Epic edited out that comment and it's pretty fucking obvious.

I do find it interesting those that said"fuck Sony" and the people that are well known Xbox fans don't say anything about this

If you honestly thought people haven't responded to that comment recently and also well over a month ago when it actually happened then I don't think you actually looked up whether or not people commented on it.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

The only one getting pay for this is Phil Spencer he changed his friendly approach of "all we are a family" to a more aggressive one, do not blame him since he needs to sell Xbone. Good he shows his true skin and not that fake happy family friends one.

Could you please explain to me how an response that says " I would have liked this to be lefted on " is aggressive? I don't care about the man's character what we are discussing is an anti consumer policy in sony blocking cross play. You can continue deflecting to phil Spencer to change the subject if you want.

 

[Night.Ninja]

Most of you need to get a life, some of the comments in this thread is just depressing.

If you were getting paid I could understand.

 

[Gaenor]

Crossplay where you can not invite your friends from Xbone and just play with random players means nothing.

Yes it still means something. Bigger player pool and thus better matchmaking.

And with more and more games having console-crossplay feature, the more chance we have that developers will find a way to let us invite friends from other consoles (or that console manufacturers permit it). One step at a time.

 

[Trup1aya]

The only one getting pay for this is Phil Spencer, he changed his friendly approach of "all we are a family" to a more aggressive one, do not blame him since he needs to sell Xbone. Good he shows his true skin and not that fake happy family friends one.

Crossplay where you can not invite your friends from Xbone and just play with random players means nothing.

False. It means a healthier playerbase. Better matchmaking. And better networking.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Imagine if we could have crossplay for Destiny.

PC would win most PVP matches. If I was still interested in the game at least I would have a better chance of winning because of it.

 

[Apathy]

Except the whole... "I would have liked to see them leave it on" part.

Notice the "them" in particular.

There is a reason Epic edited out that comment and it's pretty fucking obvious.



If you honestly thought people haven't responded to that comment recently and also well over a month ago when it actually happened then I don't think you actually looked up whether or not people commented on it.

You're being purposely obtuse when clearly I mean in this thread when the evidence was shown to them in this thread

 

[Alebrije]

Could you please explain to me how an response that says " I would have liked this to be lefted on " is aggressive? I don't care about the man's character what we are discussing is an anti consumer policy in sony blocking cross play. You can continue deflecting to phil Spencer to change the subject if you want.

Every time this topic emerges he tweets something about it, has been done this since E3 , he did while talking with Giant bomb guys. He uses the topic to look like the good guy , just a PR tactic.

Also my point is if you can not choose your friend and just play with random players there is not a plus.

 

[failgubbe]

My name is Phil Spencer and I'll say anything to make me look like the good guy

Just like Sony in 2013 amirite

 

[N21]

Rocket League could have not existed also in your scenario if they ran out of money.

Well it's your choice to buy it at whatever price you want. Then again why a game is magically devalued because it launched on one platform first(Of which you either choice not to buy on or don't have access to) escapes me when the game is new! to the platform of your choice.

It's new to my platform of choice but not a new game overall. People did the same thing with ROTTR and I expect that others will do too.

No, because Broforce is shit.

Lol, it was all the rage before the developers released that awful port to the PS4.

Probably not, because the game is already available to most people - xbox owners probably already played the game on iOS/ Android if they were interested. People play games when they become available to them. Bro force is basically available to everyone.

I was talking about it releasing on XB not an XB user playing it on a different platform.

If a game can't be successful with a staggered launch, then it probably wouldn't have faired any better with a universal launch. If a game isn't compelling, the cost of the port probably wont be covered by the additional sales

While there's some truth to that, I don't think a staggered launch is really the way to go.

Look at it this way, one person is interested in your game but you say it may take up to 6 months to release on their platform of choice, that person is mostly likely not interested now. Plus, when you do release your game on their platform, you run into the danger of that potential customer buying another game over yours.

I know that there's never a good time to release a game but it would be smart to get it out soon as possible.

 

[Trup1aya]

Every time this topic emerges he tweets something about it, has been done this since E3 , he did while talking with Giant bomb guys. He uses the topic to look like the good guy , just a PR tactic.

Also my point is if you can not choose your friend and just play with random players there is not a plus.

You're point is false.

A larger multiplayer pool benefits everyone who plays the game. The matchmaking is better. The networking is better. The populations will hold up longer.

Also who cares if its PR? His stance is consumer friendly... That's naturally good for public relations

 

[Give War A Chance]

Lmao. This old chestnut again? Like I said previously, until there aren't enough people to play with on PS4... cross-play really doesn't matter to me.

People keep calling it consumer friendly, but I'm a consumer as well as I just don't see how it makes my experience much better at all. If my buddies had Xboxes, I still would have to get lucky to get into the same game as them and have to use Discord or something to chat, I guess?

 

[King_Moc]

Lol, it was all the rage before the developers released that awful port to the PS4

The quality of the port is the least of it's problems. It's generic, frustrating, repetitive and nowhere near as funny as it thinks it is. It's supoposed to be an amusing game, and every joke is effectively just, "Have you seen *insert 80's film here*?".

 

[Head.spawn]

You're being purposely obtuse when clearly I mean in this thread when the evidence was shown to them in this thread

Clearly obtuse?

The lack of response to people not responding to something that has been brought up a dozen times over the past month is not evidence of anything, everyone in this thread that has been following the Fortnite situation already talked about it. This entire thread is literally framed around the ongoing response to that. Phil is the first to actually come out and point to their actual response to the public.

I'm not sure how you think it's some gotcha point that needs to be addressed.

That blurb popped up in their patch notes and then mysteriously disappeared. That is literally the extent of the conversation, we don't know why it said something that is 100% the opposite of what MS has been touting, we don't know if Sony had okay'd it on their end, we don't know if the person that typed it was correctly informed on the situation... all we know is that they had a reason to remove the line.

There is literally nothing stopping Epic from coming out and saying exactly their position on this... Tim Sweeney has been very vocal on ANYTHING MS related that he doesn't see eye-to-eye on. Except this... a game where they're financially partnered with Sony for the second time this gen (first game is currently console exclusive, why is that?).

At this point, the deleted comment is a non-starter for discussion unless people just want to assume the entire conversation of why it was initially stated and then infer as to why they think it was removed. Not much to discuss barring that. You want people to derail a thread to focus on a non-starter point?

 

[N21]

The quality of the port is the least of it's problems. It's generic, frustrating, repetitive and nowhere near as funny as it thinks it is. It's supoposed to be an amusing game, and every joke is effectively just, "Have you seen *insert 80's film here*?".

Wow, I didn't know that people had opinions of Broforce like this. I thought that the port was the main problem.

Anyway, I'm going to drop the indie clause thing because we'll go round in circles.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

Just like Sony in 2013 amirite

That's what PR does

 

[Pop]

So where's the outrage for Phil and Xbox removing cross play with PC?

Or is this just another thread to hate on the king.

 

[OléGunner]

So where's the outrage for Phil and Xbox removing cross play with PC?

Or is this just another thread to hate on the king.

I've just read another Gaffers post that Cross play was removed from Fortnite.

Surprised there was little backlash round these parts for that or more likely I missed it?

Lmao. This old chestnut again? Like I said previously, until there aren't enough people to play with on PS4... cross-play really doesn't matter to me.

People keep calling it consumer friendly, but I'm a consumer as well as I just don't see how it makes my experience much better at all. If my buddies had Xboxes, I still would have to get lucky to get into the same game as them and have to use Discord or something to chat, I guess?

Kinda feel the same.
Sure I should give more of a shit but I'm not particularly bothered about all this.

My outrage right now is mainly reserved for

Spoiler

bullshit microtransactions/exorbitant DLC practices in full price games lol

 

[Trup1aya]

I was talking about it releasing on XB not an XB user playing it on a different platform.

I understand what you were talking about. But the point is the bro force has already reached xbox customers w/o being on xbox.

It wouldn't be a matter of xbox users losing interest because the wait was too long. It would be because they already played it or never found it interesting.

While there's some truth to that, I don't think a staggered launch is really the way to go.

Staggered launch is often the difference between a game existing and not existing. A multiplatform dev is typically going to support as many platforms as they can afford.

The idea that they should support them all at once or bow out ignores all of the success that had been had staggering releases so that proceeds from one version can support the next.

Look at it this way, one person is interested in your game but you say it may take up to 6 months to release on their platform of choice, that person is mostly likely not interested now. Plus, when you do release your game on their platform, you run into the danger of that potential customer buying another game over yours.

If you cant afford to service that customer at launch, it makes sense to service those you can, and make sure your game is good enough to keep others interested for as long as it takes to build your business out.

It doesn't make sense to kill your entire game simply because you can't reach all markets at once. Having some customers is better than having none.

I know that there's never a good time to release a game but it would be smart to get it out soon as possible.

And sometimes staggered IS as soon as possible

 

[sixteen-bit]

I would have liked it too. Sets a good precedent.

 

[paragonpro]

I just want cross play to happen.

Once the cat is out of the bag, there is no turning back.

Anybody who is playing the Microsoft and Sony blame game is missing the point completely. I have no loyalty to any company and those who do should re-evaluate your priorities as a consumer.

Amen, the die hard loyalty people have for these multi
Million dollar companies to the point where they wouldnt want something to happen that would benefit everyone just so that they can say their brand looks good is very concerning.

 

[RichiRamjag]

PC would win most PVP matches. If I was still interested in the game at least I would have a better chance of winning because of it.

You’d never think so from all the salt during the pc beta about controllers.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

You’d never think so from all the salt during the pc beta about controllers.

Hah, controller players had an advantage on PC? Or was the complaint about PC players using controllers for PVE, lowering dps by 0.5%? I had a bit of PC players complaining about console players in the FFXI days.