Support NeoGAF

[VulpX]

Has that ever been said it's the past? I think Snoke said something like like "You will lead the Knights of Ren."

He says "You, the master of the Knights of Ren?"

Kylo is already a the leader of the Knights. I think it is heavily implied in that shot that that's actually the slaughter of the Jedi Academy. Also, he still had his Kylo mask on there, which was destroyed on the Starkiller. Not saying that he couldn't get a new one, but his face is sliced up by Rey for a reason.

Another intersting thing about the mask that I discussed with a friend: Kylo drops the mask and doesn't bother picking it up again after killing Han. The mask was to something for him to hide behind. After killing his father he has overcome his greatest test, and doesn't need to hide anymore, he has embraced the Dark Side fully. Another reason why he probably won't have a, or not the same mask in the next movie.

 

[wildfire]

Stolen from Daisy Ridley's FB pages, she is a gift.

That is almost clever in a meta way.

Spoiler

Should have used a Remora instead.

 

[KevinG]

Why is he trying to live up to Vader? It's corny that he's running around trying to live up to someone he's clearly not in the same league with. Kinda pathetic, and not interesting at all.

Conflict over killing his father? It lasted all of 5 seconds and then he somehow ran a couple of miles, injured, to beat Rey/Finn to the Falcon.

History with the Knights of Ren? He's their master supposedly. I feel really bad for that crew...Blind leading the blind.

I'm all for a more layered villain that has emotions, is dynamic and such, but at no point in the movie did any of those manifest into something beyond being whiny.

Did we watch the same film?

Edit: This is a cheap, non-rebuttel, lazy forum response. Disregard my negative forum tone.

 

[Already Torn]

Why is he trying to live up to Vader? It's corny that he's running around trying to live up to someone he's clearly not in the same league with. Kinda pathetic, and not interesting at all.

Conflict over killing his father? It lasted all of 5 seconds and then he somehow ran a couple of miles, injured, to beat Rey/Finn to the Falcon.

History with the Knights of Ren? He's their master supposedly. I feel really bad for that crew...Blind leading the blind.

I'm all for a more layered villain that has emotions, is dynamic and such, but at no point in the movie did any of those manifest into something beyond being whiny.

He ended up killing his father and feeling bad enough about it that he sucked at fighting and got beaten up by Rey.

 

[jacob armitage]

What's interesting about him? He gets beat up and runs to whine to Snoke that he can't handle it...Actually, come to think about it, he spends the whole movie getting his ass handed to him and whining about it.

Kylo has the start of what could be a fascinating story arc that could play out in many ways. It really was the best part of the new flick for me. I'm baffled that you found it comical, do you not have any love for storytelling or subtlety?

 

[d1rtn4p]

Kylo has the start of what could be a fascinating story arc that could play out in many ways. It really was the best part of the new flick for me. I'm baffled that you found it comical, do you not have any love for storytelling or subtlety?

Give me an example of subtlety used with Kylo?

 

[Discotheque]

lmao forreal, that poster is killing me right now.

and yeah kylo ren is definitely the best thing about this aside from han. rey could have been that but i think she's not as interesting to me due to their insistence on making her a mystery (which is fine and all and we'll clearly get to know her much better in 8)

 

[Starsailor]

Give me an example of subtlety used with Kylo?

well he's altered by the light side... we never saw that before in the star wars universe. It's like the Zuko or Snape for Star wars

 

[Henkka]

When did Kylo Ren whine? He has rage issues, but I don't remember him whining.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Actually, I think the soundtrack is great

 

[KingSnake]

I think I just cut myself on the edginess of the last page.

 

[Discotheque]

Actually, I think the soundtrack is great

it's about on the level of the hobbit stuff for me where the best parts about it are obviously the callbacks to the god-tier older music and while some of the newer tracks are quite good they get overshadowed and don't get as much prominence.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Actually, I think the soundtrack is great

Same. It's not the strongest Star Wars soundtrack but I think there's plenty of great tracks on it.

 

[d1rtn4p]

He ended up killing his father and feeling bad enough about it that he sucked at fighting and got beaten up by Rey.

That is hilarious I had to do A LOT of imaginary connecting the dots to reach that conclusion. That badass sword needs a wielder that's worthy of using it honestly.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Rey's theme is a classic.

 

[Eidan]

Really hate Disney for the marketing they did, pumping up Kylo as the end-all badass. Then we get dunce, comic relief, screw-up Kylo in the movie.

He was absolutely none of those things in this movie.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

it's about on the level of the hobbit stuff for me where the best parts about it are obviously the callbacks to the god-tier older music and while some of the newer tracks are quite good they get overshadowed and don't get as much prominence.

Nah, I definitely think it's a little better than that. The prequels had better music though, but I also really like some of the new stuff, even if some of it might sound a bit derivative.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Give me an example of subtlety used with Kylo?

His outward vs the inward appearance. Kylo has a scarred mask, modulated voice, and tattered robes. Underneath it he is a normal dude conflicted by the light and dark. He understands Vader's power and tries to project a menacing appearance to be like Vader. He doesn't understand that Vader looked the way he did because of the pain Anakin went through.

 

[Carn82]

What's interesting?

- He can use the force in completely different ways to other force sensitives - stopping blaster bolts in mid air, extracting memories and information etc
- His insistence on trying to live up to Vader
- He's tempted by the light instead of the dark side
- His conflict over killing his father
- How did Snoke seduce him with the dark side and why is he so determined to not turn good?
- His history with the Knights of Ren

I agree with these points. I also do think that it could be executed a bit better (I can see the 'whiney emo angle'), but for a new villain he is pretty interesting. We actually see him become a 'true' bad guy. And to be fair, Anakin was a crybaby as well before turning into our beloved Darth Vader, so I guess that fits the universe ;P

Also interesting that it seems that every Jedi / Sith has his/her own strengths and weaknesses and 'fields of research'. Darth Plagueis (the much rumored Snoke) had advanced knowledge of ressurection after death, QuiGonn Jinn 'discovered' the whole Force Ghost thing and spread that knowledge to Yoda, Obi Wan, probably Anakin and also probably Luke (through Obi wan and/or Yoda)

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I really wonder what reason Kylo would have to go to the darkside.
Doesn't look like he would have any valid reason.

 

[Henkka]

Kylo is a far more interesting villain than Vader in ANH. Not to mention Darth Maul, who was literally nothing.

 

[Hidden One]

I really wonder what reason Kylo would have to go to the darkside.
Doesn't look like he would have any valid reason.

Cookies, duh.

 

[Eidan]

Actually, I think the soundtrack is great

Nah, it was pretty damn weak. I can vaguely recall parts of Rey's theme and that's about it. Creed has the best score I've heard so far this year.

 

[Stallion Dan]

I like that the saber fights are back to the original trilogy style. Hated what the prequels did to them.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Why is he trying to live up to Vader? It's corny that he's running around trying to live up to someone he's clearly not in the same league with. Kinda pathetic, and not interesting at all.

Conflict over killing his father? It lasted all of 5 seconds and then he somehow ran a couple of miles, injured, to beat Rey/Finn to the Falcon.

History with the Knights of Ren? He's their master supposedly. I feel really bad for that crew...Blind leading the blind.

I'm all for a more layered villain that has emotions, is dynamic and such, but at no point in the movie did any of those manifest into something beyond being whiny.

How exactly is it 'corny'? That is just a buzz word used to describe something you dont like because there is nothing corny about his story, trying to emulate his grandfather after he felt his father abandoned and failed him. His grandfather who, to someone being tempted by the dark side alread, would be considered to be a hero.

And to say its corny because he will never live up to his abilities, how do you know? Has Kylo been training as long as vader? No, he hasnt even completed his training. And he is also the most powerful force user around at the moment, barring Snoke and Luke but Luke is MIA.

Seriously, just seems like some people didnt like how the story went and decide to stick meaningless, unrelated labels onto 'problems' instead of thinking about it rationally.

 

[Starsailor]

I really wonder what reason Kylo would have to go to the darkside.
Doesn't look like he would have any valid reason.

Did he say that Jedi are assassins to Han Solo?

 

[pringles]

Soundtrack is great. Not every prequel track was Duel of the Fates quality. It says a lot that every time someone says the prequels had such amazing soundtracks, that specific track is what's referenced 99 times out of 100. I don't remember many other standouts to be honest. That's not saying the prequels didn't have great soundtracks, just that the fact that TFA doesn't have many iconic/memorable tracks doesn't make it bad.

Most of all, TFA lays the foundation for coming movies. Rey's Theme is fantastic and has huge potential to grow into something even better.

 

[Fliesen]

(btw why do Finn and Poe Dameron not need TIe pilot breahting apparatus?!)[/I],

I'd presume the TIE pilots only wear them in case they need to eject from their incredibly fragile spacecraft.
I don't think Finn / Poe had a possible loss of cabin pressure that high up their list of priorities

 

[d1rtn4p]

His outward vs the inward appearance. Kylo has a scarred mask, modulated voice, and tattered robes. Underneath it he is a normal dude conflicted by the light and dark. He understands Vader's power and tries to project a menacing appearance to be like Vader. He doesn't understand that Vader looked the way he did because of the pain Anakin went through.

Not going to drag the argument out anymore. I was happy with the movie overall, but really had issues with Kylo. I'll give them Episode 8 to show me what he has; they either need to kill him off or give me an iconic villain I can get behind.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Give me an example of subtlety used with Kylo?

I felt like a lot of it was pretty obvious but based on your reaction I think it might be considered subtle to you.

Kylo is the only villain we have ever had in the Star Wars universe that attempts to flesh out the appeal of the dark side. Whatever happens to him when he is younger and pushes him away from both his mother and father creates an angst in him. With the dark side he can let his emotions run free. Being out of control actually makes him more powerful but he struggles with freeing himself from the natural affection he has for his family and his desire to be Vader.

The first movie lets us see that whole story arc. In a way it gives us a glimpse into what would have happened had Luke killed Vader and why it would have forever cast him off. Even Anakin didn't join the darkside because of the appeal of the pain. He joined because he thought he could save Padme.

That is hilarious I had to do A LOT of imaginary connecting the dots to reach that conclusion. That badass sword needs a wielder that's worthy of using it honestly.

Imaginary connect the dots?
Go watch the movie again knowing what you know now. It will make a lot more sense.

 

[Calm waterfall]

Rey is Luke´s daughter, at least based on the trailer.

Luke says "the force is strong in my family, my father has it, my sister has it, i have it, and you have it". He was talking about Rey not nu Vader.

Let´s check some facts, The movie is about Rey awakening the force within her, hence the force awakening. Why would there be a focus on a no name protagonist? Why would she the one to meet Luke not Leia, or anyone else for that matter? She can´t have that kind of a strong force without her being a daughter of someone whom the force is strong within. I would even argue that Leia recognized her when they met.

 

[Starsailor]

Not going to drag the argument out anymore. I was happy with the movie overall, but really had issues with Kylo. I'll give them Episode 8 to show me what he has; they either need to kill him off or give me an iconic villain I can get behind.

For me Kylo is an iconic villain now. He fits so good in the dark side than any of bad guys before (except Palpatine)

 

[Henkka]

Rey is Luke´s daughter, at least based on the trailer.

Luke says "the force is strong in my family, my father has it, my sister has it, i have it, and you have it". He was talking about Rey not nu Vader.

Let´s check some facts, The movie is about Rey awakening the force within her, hence the force awakening. Why would there be a focus on a no name protagonist? Why would she the one to meet Luke not Leia, or anyone else for that matter? She can´t have that kind of a strong force without her being a daughter of someone whom the force is strong within. I would even argue that Leia recognized her when they met.

Maybe. It's just signaled so heavily, it might be a red herring.

 

[Future PhaZe]

I really wonder what reason Kylo would have to go to the darkside.
Doesn't look like he would have any valid reason.

That his line--the Skywalker family, was born solely for the purpose of serving Plagueis. That the Skywalkers are a plague in the force. Chosen for nothing but to be used as a tool for the dark side.

 

[Fliesen]

Not going to drag the argument out anymore. I was happy with the movie overall, but really had issues with Kylo. I'll give them Episode 8 to show me what he has; they either need to kill him off or give me an iconic villain I can get behind.

Yeah, but that's not them giving you a "bad" or underdeveloped villain. That's you not accepting the villain the way he is portrayed.

"the steak's not bloody! there's barely any bite to it! it's way too thin!"

Clearly, this is you saying "I give them time until episode 8 to make this perfect piece of salmon taste more like beef."

 

[Already Torn]

That is hilarious I had to do A LOT of imaginary connecting the dots to reach that conclusion. That badass sword needs a wielder that's worthy of using it honestly.

They explicitly stated it 😨

 

[jacob armitage]

Give me an example of subtlety used with Kylo?

How affected and tempted he is by the lgiht side, how scarred he is when sensing Reys power. Something he likely has not had to deal with since becoming Snokes apprentice, and it scares him. He fears people will see that hes not this bad ass image that hes trying to build himself up to be, he wants them to believe he is and fear what hes trying to become, not what he currently is. The conversation he has with Han as his father slowly realizes what he means, the sheer anger and loss of focus that has him lose the fight with Rey (I felt like he was angry over his fathers death, angry with himself even). His lack of discipline and honestly, i still see a bit of good in him. His story arc has so many little subtle touches that it could play out in a variety of ways and I am more excited to see what they do with Kylo than any other character introduced in his movie (despite loving them all).

 

[Starsailor]

Rey is Luke´s daughter, at least based on the trailer.

Luke says "the force is strong in my family, my father has it, my sister has it, i have it, and you have it". He was talking about Rey not nu Vader.

Let´s check some facts, The movie is about Rey awakening the force within her, hence the force awakening. Why would there be a focus on a no name protagonist? Why would she the one to meet Luke not Leia, or anyone else for that matter? She can´t have that kind of a strong force without her being a daughter of someone whom the force is strong within. I would even argue that Leia recognized her when they met.

Rey is a skywalker, but not the one you want

 

[cubicle47b]

I liked the movie a lot better the second time. The lacking of breathing room didn't bother me as much and I kind of got over some of the more ridiculous parts of the movie like how Starkiller works (and helps make the galaxy feel small). It was just an enjoyable ride.

Poe Dameron is still the most OP person in the movie by far, though. What he does above Maz's castle is absurd.

 

[rrc1594]

After seeing the movie for the 4th time. I realize that Finn wasn't necessary to movie the plot forward Rey could of did everything by herself TBH.

-She found the Robot
-Was able to fly the ship
-Found the lightsaber
-Was able to escape with out them

I like Rey character a lot.

 

[Gonzalez]

I really wonder what reason Kylo would have to go to the darkside.
Doesn't look like he would have any valid reason.

If this was R rated the answer would be simple. Kylo takes pleasure in killing living creatures, like Joffrery. But this is aimed at kids so it'll end up being like Anakin's bullshit "Jedi are the real evil, not the Sith".

 

[Carn82]

Give me an example of subtlety used with Kylo?

Some other Vader-isms (yes, I'm reaching but I'm sure they are nods)

- A New Hope: Vader says '“Leave that to me", while Ren says "I`ll leave that to you"; showing a difference in how they see their own responsibilities.

- Ren, when dissapointed, seems to channel his rage on inanimate objects instead on his 'servants', which makes him look foolish, compared to Vader instilling fear because you`ll probably die if you screw up

 

[Starsailor]

I liked the movie a lot better the second time. The lacking of breathing room didn't bother me as much and I kind of got over some of the more ridiculous parts of the movie like how Starkiller works (and helps make the galaxy feel small). It was just an enjoyable ride.

Poe Dameron is still the most OP person in the movie by far, though. What he does above Maz's castle is absurd.

Poe = Legolas

 

[Discotheque]

Nah, I definitely think it's a little better than that. The prequels had better music though, but I also really like some of the new stuff, even if some of it might sound a bit derivative.

i dunno man, hobbit had some pretty damn good stuff in there. better than the highs on this. the problem was the movies suck so bad that people won't want to go back and find out lol. also it's good tracks were mixed in with a lot of derivative stuff much like this.

i think rey's theme will grow into something great though, if they continue with it. that jedi steps song is fantastic. it's the only time in the film where they use original music that elevates the scene so damn well.

 

[Fliesen]

How affected and tempted he is by the lgiht side, how scarred he is when sensing Reys power. Something he likely has not had to deal with since becoming Snokes apprentice, and it scares him. He fears people will see that hes not this bad ass image that hes trying to build himself up to be, he wants them to believe he is and fear what hes trying to become, not what he currently is. The conversation he has with Han as his father slowly realizes what he means, the sheer anger and loss of focus that has him lose the fight with Rey (I felt like he was angry over his fathers death, angry with himself even). His lack of discipline and honestly, i still see a bit of good in him. His story arc has so many little subtle touches that it could play out in a variety of ways and I am more excited to see what they do with Kylo than any other character introduced in his movie (despite loving them all).

Another one: He's clearly somewhat embarassed to look into Hux' face without his mask on.

There's this scene where he has a conversation with Snoke, and Hux enters the big room informing Snoke that it was Ren who was foolish to let BB8 get away because he thought he could extract the information they needed from Rey.

For just the glimpse of a moment, Ren TURNS back facing Hux, but immediately turns back facing Snoke, because he's uncomfortable and insecure without that mask.

After seeing the movie for the 4th time. I realize that Finn wasn't necessary to movie the plot forward Rey could of did everything by herself TBH.

-She found the Robot
-Was able to fly the ship
-Found the lightsaber
-Was able to escape with out them

I like Rey character a lot.

Would she have been able to shake those TIE fighters or fix that gas leak without Finn?
Also, Finn took the light saber from the resistance base to Starkiller base. Rey refused to take the saber and would have been stuck in that winter wonderland with just her blaster. Whoops.

 

[Gonzalez]

- Ren, when dissapointed, seems to channel his rage on inanimate objects instead on his 'servants', which makes him look foolish, compared to Vader instilling fear because you`ll probably die if you screw up

Nah, you're totally forgetting when he choked the shit out of one of his officers.

 

[Future PhaZe]

After seeing the movie for the 4th time. I realize that Finn wasn't necessary to movie the plot forward Rey could of did everything by herself TBH.

-She found the Robot
-Was able to fly the ship
-Found the lightsaber
-Was able to escape with out them

I like Rey character a lot.

would have died in the falcon because she had no gunner

would have been killed by Kylo Ren when force pushed into the tree

 

[KingSnake]

After seeing the movie for the 4th time. I realize that Finn wasn't necessary to movie the plot forward Rey could of did everything by herself TBH.

-She found the Robot
-Was able to fly the ship
-Found the lightsaber
-Was able to escape with out them

I like Rey character a lot.

Just 2 quick facts out of my memory:
Without Finn shooting the TIE fighter she would be dead.
Without Finn lying about the Starkiller shields all of them would be dead.

 

[Carn82]

Rey is Luke´s daughter, at least based on the trailer.

Luke says "the force is strong in my family, my father has it, my sister has it, i have it, and you have it". He was talking about Rey not nu Vader.

Not able to check, but isnt that line the same as in Return of the Jedi (Luke to Leia), but recorded again and cut differently?

I really wonder what reason Kylo would have to go to the darkside. Doesn't look like he would have any valid reason.

I'm curious as well. Han says Luke 'took all the blame onto himself', so my guess is a few things happened. Something/someone must have conviced Kylo Ren that Luke's plan wasnt 'all that', I can't imagine that it will just be that he got seduced to the dark side, killed a bunch of students and that's that.

 

[Vestal]

Soundtrack is great. Not every prequel track was Duel of the Fates quality. It says a lot that every time someone says the prequels had such amazing soundtracks, that specific track is what's referenced 99 times out of 100. I don't remember many other standouts to be honest. That's not saying the prequels didn't have great soundtracks, just that the fact that TFA doesn't have many iconic/memorable tracks doesn't make it bad.

Most of all, TFA lays the foundation for coming movies. Rey's Theme is fantastic and has huge potential to grow into something even better.

While I agree that the TFA soundtrack is solid and Reys theme is fantastic. I do also agree that the PT soundtrack had some FANTASTIC tracks. Without mentioning the obvious Duel of Fates let me point out a few standouts.

1. Across the Stars(AOTC)
2.Return to Tatooine(AOTC)
3. Battle of Heroes(ROTS)
4. Anakin vs Obiwan(ROTS) To me the GOAT for this movie..
15. A New Hope(Love the playfulness for the birth of the twins)