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[cj_iwakura]

He's being polite. They don't think the Vita game will generate enough to be worth releasing overseas since it's a niche title.

That's what I don't get. Niche titles are the Vita's bread and butter. Small print runs, hungry audience, massive profit margin. They're shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Aters]

Truth to be told, as long as it's not broken, Vita owners are mostly okay with that considering games such as Borderlands 2, RER2 or the Jak Trilogy.

10 second loading time to get into a house sounds pretty broken to me.
But I never played it, maybe people are exaggerating.

 

[GhostTrick]

That's what I don't get. Niche titles are the Vita's bread and butter. Small print runs, hungry audience, massive profit margin. They're shooting themselves in the foot.

Massive profit margin remains to be seen though. It sure turns a profit but there's no small profits for niche publishers.

They're not shooting themselves in the foot for skipping Vita, let's be real here. But they certainly are leaving a nice amount of money considering the low effort required to release it. I wouldnt be surprised that at 30 dollars, 2000 copies would be enough to break even the cost of QA for the Vita version.

10 second loading time to get into a house sounds pretty broken to me.
But I never played it, maybe people are exaggerating.

Broken in the sense that you cant play the game.
I dont know about the loading times length, but if its true, that reminds me of Oblivion on Xbox 360, where you would be damned if you entered the wrong house because of loading times hahaha

 

[cj_iwakura]

Massive profit margin remains to be seen though. It sure turns a profit but there's no small profits for niche publishers.

They're not shooting themselves in the foot for skipping Vita, let's be real here. But they certainly are leaving a nice amount of money considering the low effort required to release it. I wouldnt be surprised that at 30 dollars, 2000 copies would be enough to break even the cost of QA for the Vita version.

Eh, I keep forgetting Squeenix are AAA. They still have fan goodwill to consider, though. Then again, the Type-0 debacle... ironically I bet it would have sold better on Vita considering how poorly the HD versions did.

 

[Wanderer5]

"When asked if the company still sees the Vita as a viable platform, Hashimoto laughed."

Lol, well then.

Not sure if I agree with the whole immersion, being able to jump into the world on a larger screen through.

 

[GhostTrick]

Eh, I keep forgetting Squeenix are AAA. They still have fan goodwill to consider, though. Then again, the Type-0 debacle... ironically I bet it would have sold better on Vita considering how poorly the HD versions did.

The problem is, this is a far worse issue than Type-0 debacle. People were pissed off because according to them it made more sense to make it on Vita (well it made more sense that XB1 version at least) but it was still work to do. The problem here is bigger because most of the work is already done. The only thing left is to put the translation and dump the game on the store after some QA.

 

[Shizuka]

Square-Enix struggles to remain relevant in the big league. Outside of Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider (which they got along with the purchase of another company), they can't really compete with companies like Ubisoft or EA.

Unless they remain catering only the japanese market or embrace the niche they have outside Japan, they'll continue to lose relevance in the market. This is the company that localized FF Explorers, but we had to wait until Nintendo intervened for Dragon Quest and Bravely Default.

 

[GhostTrick]

Square-Enix struggles to remain relevant in the big league. Outside of Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider (which they got along with the purchase of another company), they can't really compete with companies like Ubisoft or EA.

Unless they remain catering only the japanese market or embrace the niche they have outside Japan, they'll continue to lose relevance in the market. This is the company that localized FF Explorers, but we had to wait until Nintendo intervened for Dragon Quest and Bravely Default.

Don't ask them to make sense. They killed the Bravely IP, instead of building something on top of the success of the first one, they took the cheap route.

 

[Kazer]

10 second loading time to get into a house sounds pretty broken to me.
But I never played it, maybe people are exaggerating.

Load times can be pretty long, but the FPS drop in battle is the worst part imo. I guess it drops a lot when you use magic. This guy is playing the Vita version. The battle at the 4 minute mark is a good example.

 

[Ravidrath]

Since you are a dev, can you give an estimate of how much would it cost to localize a game and test it, if possible? I mean there is already a version of the game in Japan so all it requires is localization, QA and certification.

/justcurious

It's an RPG, so I can't really put a number on it since I haven't shipped one of those. But I can at least try to explain the costs associated that I have experience with.

First, Square usually localizes its own text instead of using contractors, and they likely get paid more than contractors would.

But localization from Japanese to English, from a contractor, is usually around 22-25 cents a word. And you're probably looking at 100k words minimum for an RPG, but probably a lot more.

QA testing is probably the biggest cost, also because Square typically uses internal testers.

But even if you're using contractors, you're still looking at 5-10 people playing through the game for a month or more at $15-25 an hour.

Now, since the PS4 and Steam versions are coming, Vita could potentially be done after the other versions are tested and fixed, as a sort of "final sweep." But how much in the way there are in savings here really depends on how different the versions are - for example, if the UI is different, that's going to affect text in every single instance, and require more attention than a basic functionality pass.

Since it would've already passed SCEJ, which is the strictest of the SCEs, the code is probably clean. And changing to English likely wouldn't have any negative impacts in terms of stability because it requires less memory than Japanese. So the testing would likely be entirely focused on the localization.

As for Sony certification, this doesn't cost anything unless you fail twice.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

It's an RPG, so I can't really put a number on it. But I can at least explain the costs associated.

First, Square usually localizes its own text instead of using contractors, and they likely get paid more than contractors would.

But localization from Japanese to English, from a contractor, is usually around 22-25 cents a word. And you're probably looking at 100k words minimum for an RPG, but probably a lot more.

QA testing is probably the biggest cost, also because Square typically uses internal testers.

But even if you're using contractors, you're still looking at 5-10 people playing through the game for a month or more at $15-25 an hour.

Now, since the PS4 and Steam versions are coming, Vita could potentially be done after the other versions are tested and fixed, as a sort of "final sweep." But how much in the way there are in savings here really depends on how different the versions are - for example, if the UI is different, that's going to affect text in every single instance, and require more attention than a basic functionality pass.

Since it would've already passed SCEJ, which is the strictest of the SCEs, the code is probably clean. And changing to English likely wouldn't have any negative impacts in terms of stability because it requires less memory than Japanese. So the testing would likely be entirely focused on the localization.

Thanks a lot for the detailed post. Appreciate it!

 

[UmbraeCruxis]

It really was just his way of saying "it's a dead platform, why should we?"

Wish the vita sold better considering it might be my favorite handheld, but I can't complain. At least the saints over at XSeed still bring some of the goods over.

 

[Pandora012]

They have faith in their game, but they don't have faith in the Vita. Can you blame them?

Well yeah, since they pull the same shit with the 3ds. Nintendo is the one that has to localize their games.

 

[Ridley327]

Well yeah, since they pull the same shit with the 3ds. Nintendo is the one that has to localize their games.

It's more accurate to say that Nintendo is the one absorbing the cost and risk of publishing and distributing the games. Squenix actually handles the localization decisions themselves on the games: they're just not spending their own money to do it.

Not that it changes much for the perception, but it's a little more clarification on what actually goes down. Hence, my quasi-serious suggestion earlier on about Squenix pitching this to Sony to see if they would take up similar duties.

 

[Scrawnton]

Well yeah, since they pull the same shit with the 3ds. Nintendo is the one that has to localize their games.

What a lot of people should realize is this right here: Square is reluctant to localize games on a system that actually has sales successes and past successes in that genre and they still won't localize their games; why the heck would they localize Vita games...

 

[Aters]

Square-Enix struggles to remain relevant in the big league. Outside of Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider (which they got along with the purchase of another company), they can't really compete with companies like Ubisoft or EA.

Unless they remain catering only the japanese market or embrace the niche they have outside Japan, they'll continue to lose relevance in the market. This is the company that localized FF Explorers, but we had to wait until Nintendo intervened for Dragon Quest and Bravely Default.

First of all, SE has never been, and probably never will be, in the same league as EA and Ubisoft, just look at their market value. They don't have a franchise that sells 10 million copies each year (not even FF in its prime could do that), they don't have FPS or sport, the best selling genres these days. If you think paying more attention to DQ or Bravely Default or this $30 dollar game will push them into the league of EA and Ubisoft, you must be crazy.

It amazes me sometimes that people can make such a big deal out of such a small issue. They are still releasing this game all right? They are even bringing it onto Steam. EA and Ubisoft haven't given a fuck to Vita for the longest time, and you don't even hear complain about it.

 

[Pandora012]

It's more accurate to say that Nintendo is the one absorbing the cost and risk of publishing and distributing the games. Squenix actually handles the localization decisions themselves on the games: they're just not spending their own money to do it.

Not that it changes much for the perception, but it's a little more clarification on what actually goes down. Hence, my quasi-serious suggestion earlier on about Squenix pitching this to Sony to see if they would take up similar duties.

Oh okay.

 

[ArtHands]

I don't think they have any faith in Setsuna doing any well in the West either TBH.


They can choose to ignore them, like Sega, instead of kicking them in the nuts?

I honestly don't think that is going to stop them from pestering SE.

 

[HGH]

If I didn't already know they hate handhelds, I'd say SE are too cheap to fix their new little studio's fuckups and don't wanna throw 'em under the bus.
Thanks Unity.

 

[Nanashrew]

First of all, SE has never been, and probably never will be, in the same league as EA and Ubisoft, just look at their market value. They don't have a franchise that sells 10 million copies each year (not even FF in its prime could do that), they don't have FPS or sport, the best selling genres these days. If you think paying more attention tn DQ or Bravely Default or this $30 dollar game will push them into the league of EA and Ubisoft, you must be crazy.

It amazes me sometimes that people can make such a big deal out of such a small issue. They are still releasing this game all right? They are even bringing it onto Steam. EA and Ubisoft haven't given a fuck to Vita for the longest time, and you don't even hear complain about it.

I don't think anyone has any kind of expectations for western 3rd parties on handheld and why most don't care if they're there or not because they never really support handhelds, and when they do it's often crap. Now they've moved to phones.

This was largely EA's output on the original DS

http://www.ea.com/uk/nds

And it doesn't get any better the further back I go into for GBA, GBC, and GB. Heck, it doesn't even look good on PSP.

Western 3rd parties have generally never cared for handhelds. Only home consoles and PC.

 

[Tohsaka]

First of all, SE has never been, and probably never will be, in the same league as EA and Ubisoft, just look at their market value. They don't have a franchise that sells 10 million copies each year (not even FF in its prime could do that), they don't have FPS or sport, the best selling genres these days. If you think paying more attention to DQ or Bravely Default or this $30 dollar game will push them into the league of EA and Ubisoft, you must be crazy.

It amazes me sometimes that people can make such a big deal out of such a small issue. They are still releasing this game all right? They are even bringing it onto Steam. EA and Ubisoft haven't given a fuck to Vita for the longest time, and you don't even hear complain about it.

Ubisoft is actually releasing a physical Vita game next month.

 

[Aters]

Ubisoft is actually releasing a physical Vita game next month.

Well good for them. I bet that game is nowhere near the company's top priority.

 

[Drilbit777]

So basically they think its not going to sell at all in the west for Vita. Thats a shame considering I really wanted to play the vita version.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

It amazes me sometimes that people can make such a big deal out of such a small issue.

It amazes me that sometimes there's people who are against additional options (and so against them that every single post is little more than "lol why do you care about this version so much?"). I mean who cares if the game runs like shit, it hasn't stopped companies from releasing shitty versions of games in the past. There's a non insignificant market for these types of games on the system here in the West. Why should said market be given a middle finger when there's no chance they wouldn't see a profit with it?

 

[Aters]

It amazes me that sometimes there's people who are against additional options (and so against them that every single post is little more than "lol why do you care about this version so much?"). I mean who cares if the game runs like shit, it hasn't stopped companies from releasing shitty versions of games in the past. There's a non insignificant market for these types of games on the system here in the West. Why should said market be given a middle finger when there's no chance they wouldn't see a profit with it?

You lost the context there. I'm saying SE not releasing this game has nothing to do with their status in the industry (against someone saying that SE is becoming irrelevant for things like this).

 

[Nanashrew]

So basically they think its not going to sell at all in the west for Vita. Thats a shame considering I really wanted to play the vita version.

It's odd too because I honestly think it would do well. The demographic for Japanese games are all on handhelds and Vita has also carved out its niche for itself that I think Setsuna would do well.

Same reasoning as Bravely Default doing so well on the 3DS. There's a good market for these games. Square is just very risk averse right now that companies like Nintendo eat the cost for them. Sony should think about doing that too for some games like this too.

 

[Shizuka]

Well good for them. I bet that game is nowhere near the company's top priority.

Does it have to be? Now that's what we're talking about, it's the same kind of project as Project Setsuna, maybe even bigger in comparison, yet Square-Enix, which is a smaller company in comparison, is dismissing the platform altogether.

 

[Aters]

Does it have to be? Now that's what we're talking about, it's the same kind of project as Project Setsuna, maybe even bigger in comparison, yet Square-Enix, which is a smaller company in comparison, is dismissing the platform altogether.

It's not like Square don't care about this game or the western audience After all they are porting it to PC just for the western audience. They think the Vita version cannot justify the cost (not just translation and QA, but also inevitable optimization), so they decide not to do it. Can you really blame them for that?

 

[bobbytkc]

Well good for them. I bet that game is nowhere near the company's top priority.

Setsuna also isn't SE's top priority, so I don't know what you are trying to argue.

This is a game that released in Japan that sold thousands in the first week.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

And RER2, on paper, has better potential to make them more money.

If Sony wanted to make money they wouldn't port a several months old, low budget port of RER2 or fund the development of the Vita version of the Banner Saga. It's just throwing a bone to the userbase and acting like they support the thing without putting to much ressource on it.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

It's not like Square don't care about this game or the western audience After all they are porting it to PC just for the western audience. They think the Vita version cannot justify the cost (not just translation and QA, but also inevitable optimization), so they decide not to do it. Can you really blame them for that?

That wouldn't even be an issue for the West if they actually worked on patching the Japanese version before getting started on a localization. But I guess that's too much to ask when the majority of the copies they're going to sell in Japan have already sold, so now they don't have to care since they've already made their money.

 

[KTallguy]

Like, I was really excited for this and then I watched vids and read reviews... I don't even want to import it at this point. Everyone says the story isn't that great, which is why I'm not buying it, but the technical issues really make me sad.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

For all intents and purposes, SE thinks the Vita is a dead system and it reflects in their barren release schedule.

Unless you have a better explanation than the above for their lack of support.

They don't even have to think anything. It's the same company who was too apathetic to put up highly demanded PS1 games on PSN outside of Japan during the PS3 era, and treat the ones they did as some monumental task. It's the same mentality here. They're riddled with this stuff on every end, and have been shrugging their shoulders and really dicey about games in the west since as long as most of us have ever known them.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

If the game is on Unity, then really all they'd have to do is test the localized Vita version and get it past Sony cert since the rest of the work would already be done for the PC & PS4 localizations. From my own PC/PS4/Vita RPG development & testing, although I've noticed the occasional oddity on Vita (like it didn't like some of the more complicated camera stuff I was testing that worked fine on other platforms), almost everything works identically on Vita as it does on other platforms so it's just a matter of making sure that everything is efficient enough that the lower power & RAM of the Vita doesn't get you into trouble.

Besides the fact that SE has shown little to no desire to localize non-mobile portable RPGs (hence Nintendo stepping in on a bunch of their DS & 3DS RPGs), I'm guessing that SE also doesn't want to release the Vita version because they think it'll drag down their review scores. 8-12 sec load times everytime you switch maps is the kind of thing that will tank your review scores.

 

[Ridley327]

If the game is on Unity, then really all they'd have to do is test the localized Vita version and get it past Sony cert since the rest of the work would already be done for the PC & PS4 localizations. From my own PC/PS4/Vita RPG development & testing, although I've noticed the occasional oddity on Vita (like it didn't like some of the more complicated camera stuff I was testing that worked fine on other platforms), almost everything works identically on Vita as it does on other platforms so it's just a matter of making sure that everything is efficient enough that the lower power & RAM of the Vita doesn't get you into trouble.

Besides the fact that SE has shown little to no desire to localize non-mobile portable RPGs (hence Nintendo stepping in on a bunch of their DS & 3DS RPGs), I'm guessing that SE also doesn't want to release the Vita version because they think it'll drag down their review scores. 8-12 sec load times everytime you switch maps is the kind of thing that will tank your review scores.

I mean, they could simply not offer the Vita version for review. It's not like Rodea where you really couldn't avoid sending in the inferior version with how they handled the marketing.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

Seriously, it's a total non answer. They should have said nothing

Immersion becuase you play it on a big screen? please

Yeah, exactly my reaction.

 

[kswiston]

If the game is on Unity, then really all they'd have to do is test the localized Vita version and get it past Sony cert since the rest of the work would already be done for the PC & PS4 localizations. From my own PC/PS4/Vita RPG development & testing, although I've noticed the occasional oddity on Vita (like it didn't like some of the more complicated camera stuff I was testing that worked fine on other platforms), almost everything works identically on Vita as it does on other platforms so it's just a matter of making sure that everything is efficient enough that the lower power & RAM of the Vita doesn't get you into trouble.

Besides the fact that SE has shown little to no desire to localize non-mobile portable RPGs (hence Nintendo stepping in on a bunch of their DS & 3DS RPGs), I'm guessing that SE also doesn't want to release the Vita version because they think it'll drag down their review scores. 8-12 sec load times everytime you switch maps is the kind of thing that will tank your review scores.

I am sure the fact that PS4/PC games can retail for $59.99, while Vita games tend to go for $39.99 has also crossed their mind.

 

[Tohsaka]

I am sure the fact that PS4/PC games can retail for $59.99, while Vita games tend to go for $39.99 has also crossed their mind.

This won't be a full-price game in the west, though. Even in Japan it wasn't.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

I am sure the fact that PS4/PC games can retail for $59.99, while Vita games tend to go for $39.99 has also crossed their mind.

There is no chance this game is going to be selling for full retail price, that would just be asking for the bomb, especially when it wasn't sold at full price in Japan either.

 

[kswiston]

This won't be a full-price game in the west, though. Even in Japan it wasn't.

My mistake then. Is this getting a retail release, or is it digital only?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

This is one of the rare situations were I actually don't want to play a game on my TV. Guess I'm forced to eh.

 

[mattiewheels]

 

[baconcow]

the team chose to instead focus on a gameplay experience built for a larger screen when bringing the game stateside.

What does this have to do with things for a game that has completed gameplay and only requires localization? Seems like some BS.

 

[BasilZero]

Shame that they wont release it for the Vita.

Was originally gonna buy it for my PS4 but now that its coming to Steam - I'll get it there.

That quote in the OP though - that was ice cold.

 

[cj_iwakura]

It's not like Square don't care about this game or the western audience After all they are porting it to PC just for the western audience. They think the Vita version cannot justify the cost (not just translation and QA, but also inevitable optimization), so they decide not to do it. Can you really blame them for that?

Since a huge company focused on AAA console experiences can support the Vita but one that thrives off JRPGs and comparatively niche titles can't?

Yes, yes I can.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Square Enix should've kept their mouths shut. Saying stuff like this only hurts them when their reasons are so obviously a bunch of horse shit.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Square Enix should've kept their mouths shut. Saying stuff like this only hurts them when their reasons are so obviously a bunch of horse shit.

Do you think there is a significant amount of people that are now not going to buy the game because of this?

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Do you think there is a significant amount of people that are now not going to buy the game because of this?

Probably not, but consistently showing how bad your PR is isn't exactly something to write home about either. I mean whether he meant it as an insult or not, you don't go around laughing at the thought of showing the Western Vita audience that while you talk about caring about them, you make it clear that you don't actually give a shit about them.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Do you think there is a significant amount of people that are now not going to buy the game because of this?

Considering how niche the game is, they're not helping their cause with their demographic. Word travels fast in those circles.

 

[GloriousBagel]

Except for Vita fans*