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Star Citizen - Fans have dropped $77m on this guys buggy, half-built game [WIRED]

Kimawolf

Member
Rich PC gamers game. The money dumped into it is impressive, but how many people have pledged? I say this because I want to play it, but have abandoned Desktop towers as they are dinosaurs. I have a console and a Windows tablet. The console would run it, and space sim games can be mapped to a controller. But no, every time you mention that the desktop PC elitist chimes in and says 'Impossible'.

Well, it's been done, even recently (Elite Dangerous, No Mans Sky, Wing commander back in the day). You might have to turn down the graphics a bit, and there might be a crazy button combo for eject, but it can be done.
It can't be done by just "turning down graphics on level 3" it's so much more going on. This is like asking why Bloodborne can't be done on the Wii? It could but would be so compromised it'd not be the same game at all.

And Also good someone is pushing PC games, I am a backer but only of a starter ship and I can't wait.
 
Only for people who aren't that but would like to play the game.

If you are really excited and you want to play some now and get the game at launch, it'll cost you $45 today. If you don't want to pay pre-release, I imagine the selling price at launch will be $60.

Edit: Aww I missed your PC desktop dinosaur vs the "console that can run it" post. Never mind then.
 
I get it and I am absolutely fascinated by the business model. To actually get so many people to willingly part with so much money on a game? It's brilliant. I need to look into this more when I have the time this weekend.

One thing is clear though. The major publishers have played it way too safe in the past few years.

Brilliant or foolish, depending on whom you ask.

Spending 22K on not yet realized assets? That fanboydom of Wing Commander is really strong.

But Mechwarrior Online is running strong, so I can see the opportunities for that PC rich mans market.
 

Wonko_C

Member
I'm still baffled. How is it possible that a game in such a niche genre is gaining so much funding? Doesnotcompute
 

epmode

Member
I'm still baffled. How is it possible that a game in such a niche genre is gaining so much funding? Doesnotcompute

The space sim was not always a niche genre. EA spent $10M on Wing Commander 4 back when average game budgets weren't anywhere near it.
 

viveks86

Member
There are a lot of weird stigmas against this game and its development at times.

I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of precedence. People just aren't used to this kind of money being spent through kickstarted games. All the game needs to do to shut people up is live up to its promises whenever it's out, which from the looks of it, isn't too distant and nebulous. Curious to see how this all pans out.
 
I'm still baffled. How is it possible that a game in such a niche genre is gaining so much funding? Doesnotcompute

Based on the funding here and the crazy jump in sales and price of flight sticks since this and Elite Dangerous were announced, there is a significant starved market here that had lots of money to spend.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I get it and I am absolutely fascinated by the business model. To actually get so many people to willingly part with so much money on a game? It's brilliant. I need to look into this more when I have the time this weekend.

One thing is clear though. The major publishers have played it way too safe in the past few years.

Yeah, I think that was part of the original pitch. There was no way a big publisher was going to approve a high end PC-quality space game since everything was being based on previous results and they had big budgets with low risk tolerance. So, if people wanted anything new with a big budget, this was the way to get it done.

All backers are winners. This isn't a cost/reward ratio contest (at least by anybody sane). Without the people pledging over $30, there wouldn't be a game. The majority of people pledging big bucks to the game are doing so because they want to see the game made and be the best that it can be. The digital goods that come with that pledging are just a side bonus. They're not competing with those those that pledged lower than them. (Well, they will be in game, but not in the sense of what sort of deal they got.)I say this as somebody who would classify as a "whale" for SC.

For sure, if people are going for "bang for their buck" the best approach is to buy the minimum package to get the discounted game on release, disregard all the early module access stuff and just let others subsidize the development for them. (Or, if they're not comfortable with the risk, just wait for release and spend a bit more)
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Why finish anything if the money keeps flowing in like this? Here's another ship for sale! Here's an intergalactic bar you can run when the game's finished for $3,000. I mean, the sky's the limit here, and there's zero obligation to finish anything, but whatever, a fool and his money are soon parted.

I like how they do an analogy to the guy that restores cars, except for the small detail being that guy actually has something tangible of value.
 
If you are really excited and you want to play some now and get the game at launch, it'll cost you $45 today. If you don't want to pay pre-release, I imagine the selling price at launch will be $60.

Edit: Aww I missed that your PC desktop dinosaur vs the console that can run it post. Never mind then.

Yeah but who has the money, time, or even lifestyle to buy desktops anymore? I realize you can buy a copy for $45 now, but that does not include the cost of investing in a desktop tower that has a single purpose; to play this 1 game. After experiencing the feeling of a powerful Windows tablet, I'm never buying a desktop again. The specific uses for a desktop are so tiny these days compared to a windows tablet with dock. An i7 Surface 3 will run almost any game you throw at it. It's just a few really high end games like this where you just have to have a desktop. Unless you're rich, a desktop for super high end games just doesn't make sense anymore. I really hope they consider a downgraded port of some kind down the line to give the masses a chance at this game.
 
Why finish anything if the money keeps flowing in like this? Here's another ship for sale! Here's an intergalactic bar you can run when the game's finished for $3,000. I mean, the sky's the limit here, and there's zero obligation to finish anything, but whatever, a fool and his money are soon parted.

I like how they do an analogy to the guy that restores cars, except for the small detail being that guy actually has something tangible of value.
Except you know, people are playing the game right now and content is releasing on a regular pace. Seems tangible to me

So is anyone who backs a Kickstarter a fool parting with their money? Or just the people supporting SC?
 
Yeah but who has the money, time, or even lifestyle to buy desktops anymore? I realize you can buy a copy for $45 now, but that does not include the cost of investing in a desktop tower that has a single purpose; to play this 1 game. After experiencing the feeling of a powerful Windows tablet, I'm never buying a desktop again. The specific uses for a desktop are so tiny these days compared to a windows tablet with dock. An i7 Surface 3 will run almost any game you throw at it. It's just a few really high end games like this where you just have to have a desktop. Unless you're rich, a desktop for super high end games just doesn't make sense anymore. I really hope they consider a downgraded port of some kind down the line to give the masses a chance at this game.


Yeah it's unfathomable. Only the insanely wealthy can afford such a lavish frivolous luxury. I wonder if anyone one on Gaf has one? Probably a few senseless irresponsible rich dummies.
 

Lothars

Member
Why finish anything if the money keeps flowing in like this? Here's another ship for sale! Here's an intergalactic bar you can run when the game's finished for $3,000. I mean, the sky's the limit here, and there's zero obligation to finish anything, but whatever, a fool and his money are soon parted.

I like how they do an analogy to the guy that restores cars, except for the small detail being that guy actually has something tangible of value.
Yeah fools that keep posting that have no idea of what has been released or what will be is the case.

It seems like the most ignorant people are the loudest.
 
All backers are winners. This isn't a cost/reward ratio contest (at least by anybody sane). Without the people pledging over $30, there wouldn't be a game. The majority of people pledging big bucks to the game are doing so because they want to see the game made and be the best that it can be. The digital goods that come with that pledging are just a side bonus. They're not competing with those those that pledged lower than them. (Well, they will be in game, but not in the sense of what sort of deal they got.)

Exactly, this is right on the nose. It bears repeating that all backers are equally subject to the outcome of the project, be it uncompleted failure, or a success. Someone might be a bigger loser in this if it fails, but that's the degree of risk that they willingly partook in.

“No. Your $100 entitles you to just as much as my 22 grand does, which is zero. You gave them money to make this game. You're not buying anything; it's a donation.”

This is something that really need to be highlighted more. Crowdfunding is fundamentally more a type of donation to the project than a purchase of the outcome, except you entitled to receive a reward (which is a product of the outcome) in return for your donation. While there's some degree of legal protection for the rewards you are entitled to, this is still very dodgy; not to mention delays, incomplete features and other detriments are in an underdeveloped grey zone where backers have very little legal power.
 
Clickbait title aside this is true.
HOWEVER
The management of this alpha also gives us insight on how they likely may run things in the future.

So they'll be very open and interactive with the community, put out frequent updates, and listen to feedback for future features and bug fixes? Sounds good!
 

Qassim

Member
People asking what the incentive is to finish this game because they've been given $77m are hilarious. The revenue of selling the game would be far, far in excess of that. Are people that oblivious.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Yeah but who has the money, time, or even lifestyle to buy desktops anymore? I realize you can buy a copy for $45 now, but that does not include the cost of investing in a desktop tower that has a single purpose; to play this 1 game. After experiencing the feeling of a powerful Windows tablet, I'm never buying a desktop again. The specific uses for a desktop are so tiny these days compared to a windows tablet with dock. An i7 Surface 3 will run almost any game you throw at it. It's just a few really high end games like this where you just have to have a desktop. Unless you're rich, a desktop for super high end games just doesn't make sense anymore. I really hope they consider a downgraded port of some kind down the line to give the masses a chance at this game.

In which case, tough. There is no need to be passive aggressive when you seem perfectly happy with the computing lifestyle you have chosen.
 

Askani

Member
I realize you can buy a copy for $45 now, but that does not include the cost of investing in a desktop tower that has a single purpose; to play this 1 game.

This really is the truth. PC's can only run one game so people like me that have like 300 steam games, it's gets really hard to keep 300 PCs up and running. One for each game, is really starting to get to me. I had to rent a second house.
 
Brilliant or foolish, depending on whom you ask.

Spending 22K on not yet realized assets? That fanboydom of Wing Commander is really strong.

But Mechwarrior Online is running strong, so I can see the opportunities for that PC rich mans market.

Chances are if someone spent that much, most of the ships you can purchase can be viewed in the hanger and played in AC.

I have actually have someone who spent that much in my org. To get to that number you would have to have multiples of every ship in the game.

The Completionist package ($15,000) includes 45 ships. Only 26 of those can be considered one family. The rest are either duplicates or variants (as in racer/fighter/exploration). Out of those 26, 12 are not hanger ready because some are really large and might not fit in a hanger and some have specialized purposes outside of battle. Given the trajectory of the game it they will most likely finish combat related and S42 related ships first then work on the PU side. But By the time SC launches with the support of multi crew ships in AC, then it is only a matter of time and refinement for the rest.

TL;DR : People who are spending that much are without a doubt purchasing multiple ships and most likely multiple variants of the same ship. Why would anyone do that? I don't know. But it is their cash to burn.
 

Grief.exe

Member
Yeah but who has the money, time, or even lifestyle to buy desktops anymore? I realize you can buy a copy for $45 now, but that does not include the cost of investing in a desktop tower that has a single purpose; to play this 1 game. After experiencing the feeling of a powerful Windows tablet, I'm never buying a desktop again. The specific uses for a desktop are so tiny these days compared to a windows tablet with dock. An i7 Surface 3 will run almost any game you throw at it. It's just a few really high end games like this where you just have to have a desktop. Unless you're rich, a desktop for super high end games just doesn't make sense anymore. I really hope they consider a downgraded port of some kind down the line to give the masses a chance at this game.

I see two relatively large issues with your post.

For the cost of a surface pro 3 + dock + keyboard, you can build an absolutely ridiculous desktop PC. Context is always important to keep in mind. Ironic considering the wording of your post.

Also, you are using your subjective opinions and specific needs and applying these wholesale to a rather large and diverse demographic.

I don't even know how to respond to something like this.

How much is an i7 Surface 3 anyway?

Very expensive when factoring in dock and keyboard.
 
Certainly don't have the best looking humans

if you ask me implementing FPS gameplay was a huge mistake. Waste of time really. Should of just finished the space portion first and then if interest was high enough, build the FPS stuff later on. Yeah make it where you can walk around on your ship and run to turrets and such, but full on planetary FPS? Major undertaking for a game that was already super ambitious on the space combat/trading/exploration side.
 

tokkun

Member
You are likening people supporting this game to an investment with a rational actor model of profit. Kickstarter projects like this are non-profit sharing and have entirely emotional claims to being funded. The similarity to bitcoin is perhaps that they are both "distributed" forms of user-input and support?

I know this is the official line from Kickstarter in order to avoid having to deal with SEC regulations, but I find it very difficult to believe that most people view these things as pure donations. Test it with a simple thought experiment: Tomorrow they decide to change their mind and make the $2500 ship an unlimited release priced at $5. Are the original buyers - sorry, "donors" - angry?

Let me also point out that the game has been funded many times over. It is not at a point where it needs donations to be released. From that perspective, what is the reason for buying these ships before the game comes out rather than waiting until you have a chance to play the game and determine if you actually like it? You would be foregoing the time-value of that money and assuming risk for what? Just the opportunity to look at it in your hangar in advance?
 
seems like a lot of people have a distorted notion of the gameplay that should be done and made available since it looks like the game is three years from announcement instead of from the start of its development.

Try to think of how World of Warcraft (announced in 2001, but in development as early as 1999, and released in 2004) beta would have played in 2002.
 

inky

Member
~$1500

Can't build a high end PC for that much. Duh.

The current low end is $1600 while the top end is around $2000.

I see. Well, I can understand Natureboy99 better now. Hard to justify buying something like that for that price when far cheaper options will take you much farther in the gaming space.

Heck, I wish I had that kind of money to spend on a desktop, but I am just a poor, rich, high end desktop kind of user so I'll have to settle for something that cost me way less but can run this game. Poor, rich me.
 

heyf00L

Member
You can't just throw money at a problem to solve it. I'd be more worried if they'd already blown through the $77 million. Wait, have they? I'm assuming most of it's in a bank.
 
I'm not a fan of this argument. On one side you have those ignorant to the game's pros and on the other you have those ignorant to the game's cons. It's clear how much effort and work is going into the game. There are shitloads of weekdaily videos on youtube as well as several playable demos. I have no doubt that they are spending the money on making the game. They have 300-odd employees over four studios and shitloads of backer money to spend, so their team is hardly small and they certainly have a lot of ambition.

The problem is whether the game they make is going to be a good one. My biggest worry is the size of the team. People are putting out Ubisoft as an example of multi-studio productions but that's not a good thing. Assassin's Creed is a poster child of feature creep ruining a series, and that's most likely down to the too many cooks spoiling the stew. The series started out as a stealth-action game in a historical setting but over the series they've added in city-tycoons, shop renovating, assassin training, city liberating, sending assassins on time-based missions, bomb-making, tower defense, hunting, crafting, naval missions, trading and a second crafting minigame that half the people I've talked to didn't know existed... separate whale-hunting, underwater treasure hunting, plantation stealing, fleet management, co-op multiplayer... The only good thing that came out of this was the naval stuff, and that would have been better off as a new IP so it wouldn't be weighed down by the assassin bullshit.

And I want to preface this by saying that I don't think Star Citizen could ever creep as badly as Assassin's Creed has, but that doesn't mean ambition won't hurt it anyway. The fact that Star Citizen is like four different games is the first sign. So it's an MMO, and a story-based SP campaign, and a dogfighting sim with co-op and PvP and PvE and an FPS which even then has multiple types of gravity... People with bigger budgets have failed at just one of those things. And people say that Chris Roberts is a veteran who can pull this off, but he's really only famous for making cinematic-based singleplayer flight sims in Wing Commander. The only thing close to Star Citizen in scope is his last game, Freelancer, which...

Originally, Roberts promised features such as automated flight maneuvers, dynamic economies, and a multiplayer mode that could host thousands of players, but diminished versions of these features were implemented in the final release. The game's initial technical demos impressed reviewers, but after the Microsoft buyout and Roberts' departure from Digital Anvil, critics had doubts about the game. Reviewers judged the final product technically good but failing to fulfill their initial expectations.

Oh well, the game was still good and the problems were mostly Microsoft's fault anyway but the game was still good in the end despite failing to meet expectations. Except, when your fans have spent $77 million on those expectations, you'd better not mess up. $77 million that the fans won't get back from end game sales, like a publisher would. Really, all I'm saying is I'm not spending a penny until the game is properly released or at least worth the price of admission. And I'm sorry, but the dogfighting module isn't exactly setting the world on fire just yet.
 
I know this is the official line from Kickstarter in order to avoid having to deal with SEC regulations, but I find it very difficult to believe that most people view these things as pure donations. Test it with a simple thought experiment: Tomorrow they decide to change their mind and make the $2500 ship an unlimited release priced at $5. Are the original buyers - sorry, "donors" - angry?

Some probably won't be happy at that. Some people aren't level headed. But so far the pledge prices for the ships have been cheaper than the later prices or hanger ready prices. This has been around for more than 2 years so it is not like there is some sort of mystery about how things have been handled.

It is funny though you mentioned 2500. There was only one ship that cost that much by itself. And it was sold only 4 months ago.

Note on page.

200 Javelins will be made available during this sale for $2,500 each. The proceeds from these ships will go towards allowing us to sell 5,000 basic Aurora backers for new players. Javelin allotments will go up at 6 AM, noon, 6 PM and midnight PST on Friday, November 28 to allow backers from around the world a chance to buy.

Because of the class, it is highly doubtful this ship will go on sale again, and you most likely have to earn it in game.

Besides the kickstarter ended when they hit around 2.1 million. The vast majority of the pledges have come from outside of kickstarter. So their expectations should be aligned to what was described on the pledge page.


Let me also point out that the game has been funded many times over. It is not at a point where it needs donations to be released. From that perspective, what is the reason for buying these ships before the game comes out rather than waiting until you have a chance to play the game and determine if you actually like it? You would be foregoing the time-value of that money and assuming risk for what? Just the opportunity to look at it in your hangar in advance?

Exactly what has been funded many times over?


If you are going to say something like that, please be specific in what you think has been funded already.

You must be one of the $2500 broken digital starship purchasers.

Really?

To answer your question it is most likely "what" people want to do in the final game. The ships that cost more have specific purposes and the really expensive ones are multi crew ships. The most expensive again was the destroyer and only 200 of those were sold and it was $2500. That is if you want to be battle based and have a crew of people that can assist you. But for people who want to be a miner, merchant, explorer, salvage, transport or repair, they have options and most likely don't need to spend that amount outside of "wanting" to.
 
I see. Well, I can understand Natureboy99 better now. Hard to justify buying something like that for that price when far cheaper options will take you much farther in the gaming space.

Heck, I wish I had that kind of money to spend on a desktop, but I am just a poor, rich, high end desktop kind of user so I'll have to settle for something that cost me way less but can run this game. Poor, rich me.
I'm talking about desktops as an additive or extra device in your house, since a windows tablet or even laptop is useful in way more situations than a desktop and should this be bought first. Obviously I'm talking in general terms and there are 850,000+ people that fit the demographic for this game. 850,000 people is chump change next to the audience size this kind of budget usually reaches.
 
I'm talking about desktops as an additive or extra device in your house, since a windows tablet or even laptop is useful in way more situations than a desktop and should this be bought first. Obviously I'm talking in general terms and there are 850,000+ people that fit the demographic for this game. 850,000 people is chump change next to the audience size this kind of budget usually reaches.

Well ok. I am pretty sure the game is aiming for niche hardware and niche genre enthusiasts. And if niche means almost 1 million people these days... then that is fine by me.
 
This is perhaps the most content/lore/world building and updates I have gotten for 35$.

The game is still not out yet, I definitely feel I have already got my moneys worth.
 
Well ok. I am pretty sure the game is aiming for niche hardware and niche genre enthusiasts. And if niche means almost 1 million people these days... then that is fine by me.
Definitely. I'm just hoping that after launch they consider a few downgraded ports to go after the wider audience. Space flight Sims have always been fun even on consoles and I'm sure the shooter fans would like the zero g element.
 
I'm talking about desktops as an additive or extra device in your house, since a windows tablet or even laptop is useful in way more situations than a desktop and should this be bought first. Obviously I'm talking in general terms and there are 850,000+ people that fit the demographic for this game. 850,000 people is chump change next to the audience size this kind of budget usually reaches.

You do realize that is entirely subjective. For people like me it is the other way around. I don't travel much so a tablet or laptop would be an additional purchase instead of a desktop.

Once you accept that your point of view may have it's own bias to start with then you would understand that maybe, when talking about 850k out of possible Millions of game players that your perspective may not be correct.
 

Zalusithix

Member
I'm talking about desktops as an additive or extra device in your house, since a windows tablet or even laptop is useful in way more situations than a desktop and should this be bought first. Obviously I'm talking in general terms and there are 850,000+ people that fit the demographic for this game. 850,000 people is chump change next to the audience size this kind of budget usually reaches.

Your preferences aren't universal. To me tablets are useless toys that should be bought last. Desktops come first as they're the best bang for the buck, are the most powerful, and most comfortable to use. Laptops come next as they're portable and more functional than a tablet, but not as functional as a desktop.
 
Definitely. I'm just hoping that after launch they consider a few downgraded ports to go after the wider audience. Space flight Sims have always been fun even on consoles and I'm sure the shooter fans would like the zero g element.

It would take quite some downgrading (gameplay feature downgrading) as well as (apparently) a number of concessions from the platform holders.
 
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