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[inky]

This is a question I've asked a couple times but have gotten not-so-great answers for:

Let's say I buy the dinky $45 starter fighter set. The game "releases" in alpha later this year, and I start playing it. Will it be possible to unlock the better ships in-game with a reasonable amount of effort, or will this be like grinding a F2P game to avoid paying real money? Will it be possible to buy "insurance" with in-game currency, or will that be something that always requires a real-dollar purchase?

Medium size ships (multi crew ones going for $100-$400 in the site now) apparently will be available for as little as a couple weeks of playing, maybe less. They haven't given specifics because this is something that is expected to be balanced once people are actually able to test it.

Insurance you will buy with in-game credits, and it is expected to be a minimal fee compared to your relative profits from just playing around. I would expect it to be no different investment than paying for housing in an MMO for example.

 

[ElyrionX]

Just to give you guys a sense of the amount of money that the studio is burning through currently:

The studio is currently 320-man strong. The US, UK and Germany are all not places with cheap labour. Assuming that on average, each person is paid $3,500 a month (which is already a conservative estimate), that equates to $1.12mn per month. Obviously, there are other operating expenses to add in such as rent, utilities, travel and such. Assuming that staff costs make up 90% of the expenses (once again, I am actually being very conservative here. Tried looking up EA and ATVI's financial numbers but they don't disclose staff costs on a separate basis so it's hard to form a reasonable estimate here), we get:

$1.12mn / 0.9 = $1.24mn

So, very conservatively speaking, the firm is burning through at least $1.24 million a month. This is a studio that is only three years old and was built on donations from fans. Let that sink in for a while.

 

[epmode]

So, very conservatively speaking, the firm is burning through at least $1.24 million a month. This is a studio that is only three years old and was built on donations from fans. Let that sink in for a while.

They've been consistently averaging around $3M per month in crowd funding.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Pretty much.

Pretty much. Plus a single player campaign like the Wing Commander games but we haven't seen much of it yet.

Difference between this and something like Mass Effect would be the option to buy/sell ships + insurance and participate in a space economy like EVE Online, correct?

 

[Count]

Reading through this thread must be insanely frustrating for the game's followers. Hell, I know almost nothing about the game and a lot of these responses in here are just... ugh.

"huge-ass hypotheticals/parallels that don't actually apply"
"repeated arguments and assumptions from people who appear to be ignorant or misinformed"
"game surely will not live up to expectations x100"
"spoonfeed me everything... since I can't be bothered... to put any effort... even into something as small as... punctuation..."

Spoiler

(granted it's only that one that dude)

Nice to see that pretty much everyone can agree on that headline, though.

 

[Dictator93]

Just to give you guys a sense of the amount of money that the studio is burning through currently:

The studio is currently 320-man strong. The US, UK and Germany are all not places with cheap labour.

Actually, they have been founding their studios in places that are "tax friendly" and also directly or indirectly support game dev with local grants.

They had an interview with their head lawyer and founder about it.

So while labour in western economies isn't cheap... they offset it to a certain degree.

 

[WillyFive]

Game seems pretty cool, especially the little I played of it and the videos others post.

 

[Mudcrab]

Difference between this and something like Mass Effect would be the option to buy/sell ships + insurance and participate in a space economy like EVE Online, correct?

Something like that just not nearly as in depth or involved as EVE.

Reading through this thread must be insanely frustrating for the game's followers. Hell, I know almost nothing about the game and a lot of these responses in here are just... ugh.

"huge-ass hypotheticals/parallels that don't actually apply"
"repeated arguments and assumptions from people who appear to be ignorant or misinformed"
"game surely will not live up to expectations x100"
"spoonfeed me everything... since I can't be bothered... to put any effort... even into something as small as... punctuation..."

Spoiler

(granted it's only that only that dude)

Nice to see that pretty much everyone can agree on that headline, though.

Eh, skepticism is fine and necessary really. It's only posts that are like "lol how are you suckers enjoying your P2W ponzi scam?" that get annoying.

 

[Natureboy99]

Rich PC gamers game. The money dumped into it is impressive, but how many people have pledged? I say this because I want to play it, but have abandoned Desktop towers as they are dinosaurs. I have a console and a Windows tablet. The console would run it, and space sim games can be mapped to a controller. But no, every time you mention that the desktop PC elitist chimes in and says 'Impossible'.

Well, it's been done, even recently (Elite Dangerous, No Mans Sky, Wing commander back in the day). You might have to turn down the graphics a bit, and there might be a crazy button combo for eject, but it can be done.

 

[Cave Johnson]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop

What's terrifying about this list is that COD is averaging at 50 million per game (if accurate). Star Citizen is only at 50% higher in dev costs.

Surprised not to see Naughty dog in the list. Hey must be really cost-efficient developers.

Edit: Max Payne 3 at $105 million, WTF?

 

[NoWayOut]

I think people can spend their own money whichever way they like. However, as a non backer, I am extremely skeptical about SC and the Roberts' ability to deliver a finish product that even come close to the promises made so far.

Then when he is quoted saying shit like this:

Star Citizen isn't a sprint, it isn't even a marathon. There is no final finish line the way you would have with a traditional retail game. Star Citizen is a way of life for as long as the community is engaged by it.

I can't help it but wonder.

 

[Mudcrab]

Then when he is quoted saying shit like this:



I can't help it but wonder.

He's talking about things like the persistent universe which won't ever be finished much like say EVE is 10 years old but also not finished.

 

[viveks86]

backers are deeming this a failure?

Well I do see a lot of people making a big fuss over it after spending $$$ on ships. I don't know if that's the majority opinion though. Probably not, given that the game continues to get a lot of support. I'm just trying to understand if there is any merit to all the complaints or this is just a case of people investing too early and getting impatient. Haven't followed the game closely enough to judge it one way or the other.

Release dates getting pushed back don't mean much by themselves. Games and movies get pushed back, get dates shifted all the time

But combine that with a lack of updates and progress, yes, it's time to get worried

But Star Citizen hasn't shown that. At all.

That's the impression I got. From since I started following progress, there has been updates almost every other week.

 

[More_Badass]

Rich PC gamers game. The money dumped into it is impressive, but how many people have pledged? I say this because I want to play it, but have abandoned Desktop towers as they are dinosaurs. I have a console and a Windows tablet. The console would run it, and space sim games can be mapped to a controller. But no, every time you mention that the desktop PC elitist chimes in and says 'Impossible'.

Well, it's been done, even recently (Elite Dangerous, No Mans Sky, Wing commander back in the day). You might have to turn down the graphics a bit, and there might be a crazy button combo for eject, but it can be done.

Uh okay? Literally has nothing to do with the article or discussion in the thread

 

[injurai]

I can't help it but wonder.

It was always going to be a soft launch. Not unlike Dota2. Where it's been around, they make a release push. Then they continue to support it for years after. That was part of the games pitch. To release something that would be supported, and to even invite the community to contribute to it.

It really is one of the most successful models as valve as proved multiple times over.

 

[ElyrionX]

Actually, they have been founding their studios in places that are "tax friendly" and also directly or indirectly support game dev with local grants.

They had an interview with their head lawyer and founder about it.

So while labour in western economies isn't cheap... they offset it to a certain degree.

They have legal counsels! And tax specialists!

 

[Dictator93]

Rich PC gamers game. The money dumped into it is impressive, but how many people have pledged? I say this because I want to play it, but have abandoned Desktop towers as they are dinosaurs. I have a console and a Windows tablet. The console would run it, and space sim games can be mapped to a controller. But no, every time you mention that the desktop PC elitist chimes in and says 'Impossible'.

Well, it's been done, even recently (Elite Dangerous, No Mans Sky, Wing commander back in the day). You might have to turn down the graphics a bit, and there might be a crazy button combo for eject, but it can be done.

A current gen console would not run this game. It is technically more ambitious and has higher fidelity than their CPUs allow for. Obviously, gpus cale more or less linearly in this regard.

And yes, it can definitely be mapped to a controller.

They have legal counsels! And tax specialists!

Of course they do (their lawyer is also the cofounder). They also have an HR department. A game with this many people involved in its dev and this much money needs legal safeguards for its finances and employees.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I think people can spend their own money whichever way they like. However, as a non backer, I am extremely skeptical about SC and the Roberts' ability to deliver a finish product that even come close to the promises made so far.

Then when he is quoted saying shit like this:

I can't help it but wonder.

Wonder what? 77 Million and they're updating the backers more frequently than Inafume with MN9 or YCG did with Shovel Knight.

If it's a Space Sim FPS MMO with a SP and MP component that has decent world building and from what I can see, a fairly larger world than Destiny, then I can see those funds justified.

But man, Chris Roberts just launching a full company out of his street cred w/ Wing Commander is incredible.

 

[Shantom]

The money dumped into it is impressive, but how many people have pledged?

858,034

 

[LevelNth]

I still find it amazing people have faith in Roberts. He is literally the definition of a one-hit wonder who had the lucky grace of perfect timing to ride a small wave of the CD-ROM hype.

His resume from that point on reads like an individual who loves two things and two things alone: failure and burning money.

 

[viveks86]

I think the initial pitch was end of 2015 and now it's looking like middle of 2017.

Source?

I believe it's end 2016?

 

[Durante]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop

77m doesn't seem a lot compared to other projects.

According to that list, it's in the top 10 development budgets of all time. If that's not a lot I don't know what is.

 

[injurai]

I still find it amazing people have faith in Roberts. He is literally the definition of a one-hit wonder who had the lucky grace of perfect timing to ride a small wave of the CD-ROM hype.

His resume from that point on reads like an individual who loves two things and two things alone: failure and burning money.

He has a dream and a vision. He's gotten this whole project off the ground. His employees know how to carry the project along. If I remember correctly he does programming on the game as well. With the amount of money they raised they can afford to plug holes and hire more people. They built their own animation capture studio because it cut cost and helped streamline the work for their employees.

Whether or not the vision converges on people's imaginations. I think they will succeed in delivering something that many will love. The whole notion that he is a charlatan at this point is laughable.

 

[zoozilla]

I always wonder what will happen after the game ships.

So they've built this studio, created this huge game funded by backers, put it into stores, and then what?

Realistically, how well could Star Citizen possibly do at release if the vast majority of people interested in it have already poured money into the project? It certainly won't make $77 million in profit. So does the studio disband? Do they immediately start crowd-funding another project? I don't see how the studio can sustain itself post-Star Citizen. Are there going to be in-game purchases after release, too?

 

[Natureboy99]

858,034

So on average each person has spent almost $90. This is why kickstarter is genius. And why I'm right about it being a rich-desktop-PC-gamers game.

 

[inky]

According to that list, it's in the top 10 development budgets of all time. If that's not a lot I don't know what is.

According to that list Deadpool cost $100,000,000 to make.

Wait, what?!

 

[Natureboy99]

Uh okay? Literally has nothing to do with the article or discussion in the thread

Literally does since I'm talking about where the 77 million is coming from and what that means.

 

[injurai]

So on average each person has spent almost $90. This is why kickstarter is genius. And why I'm right about it being a rich-desktop-PC-gamers game.

Even though some projects fail miserably, there are still a lot of really good games that would only be possible through crowdfunding.

 

[Durante]

And why I'm right about it being a rich-desktop-PC-gamers game.

Is this a problem?

 

[ElyrionX]

858,034

So basically if the game sells a million copies, only 150k of those will generate revenue upfront?

 

[DoktorEvil]

According to that list Deadpool cost $100,000,000 to make.
Wait, what?!

Maybe the license fees ate away the money that was allocated to the studio development?

 

[Pakkidis]

I always wonder what will happen after the game ships.

So they've built this studio, created this huge game funded by backers, put it into stores, and then what?

Realistically, how well could Star Citizen possibly do at release if the vast majority of people interested in it have already poured money into the project? It certainly won't make $77 million in profit. So does the studio disband? Do they immediately start crowd-funding another project? I don't see how the studio can sustain itself post-Star Citizen. Are there going to be in-game purchases after release, too?

Same thing will happen as every other AAA title released...lots of people will get laid off.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I think that for a sizeable portion of the userbase, it can't meet expectations, nothing can.

I fear you are right, some people wouldn't be happy with it no matter what.

Im really looking forward to it.

 

[Mudcrab]

I always wonder what will happen after the game ships.

So they've built this studio, created this huge game funded by backers, put it into stores, and then what?

Realistically, how well could Star Citizen possibly do at release if the vast majority of people interested in it have already poured money into the project? It certainly won't make $77 million in profit. So does the studio disband? Do they immediately start crowd-funding another project? I don't see how the studio can sustain itself post-Star Citizen. Are there going to be in-game purchases after release, too?

It's not the vast majority of people who are interested, just the people who are willing to put money into it right now. Look at this thread to get a sense of the skepticism that's out there. Now imagine what happens if the game actually succeeds.

Put it to you this way, do you think Pillars of Eternity will stop making money now that it's released?

 

[Raticus79]

So basically if the game sells a million copies, only 150k of those will generate revenue upfront?

Yes, if a game has 850k people who paid up front, then 150k additional people buy it on release to bring it up to 1 million, then there were 150k additional sales.

 

[tuxfool]

Same thing will happen as every other AAA title released...lots of people will get laid off.

Most of the staff is contractual.

 

[Basileus777]

I always wonder what will happen after the game ships.

So they've built this studio, created this huge game funded by backers, put it into stores, and then what?

Realistically, how well could Star Citizen possibly do at release if the vast majority of people interested in it have already poured money into the project? It certainly won't make $77 million in profit. So does the studio disband? Do they immediately start crowd-funding another project? I don't see how the studio can sustain itself post-Star Citizen. Are there going to be in-game purchases after release, too?

They've shown an incredible ability to monetize this game. I can't imagine them not continuing to sell ships.

 

[viveks86]

Is this a problem?

Of course! Think of all dem poor people. How dare the rich entertain themselves in ways they see fit!

 

[Messofanego]

That seems insane. Where is the money going? Sure i'm being a backseat dev here but come on, 77 million you could hire a whole bunch of quality devs to work on it.

Like 320 as stated in the article?

 

[petran79]

Some of those 77$ million should be spent on marketing and buying positive reviews.
But I am glad it is not

 

[Grief.exe]

So basically if the game sells a million copies, only 150k of those will generate revenue upfront?

I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 150k more backers before the game releases.

Let's be honest about the numbers, the game is already profitable. CIG are likely saving a significant portion of the money that has been given to them.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I always wonder what will happen after the game ships.

So they've built this studio, created this huge game funded by backers, put it into stores, and then what?

Realistically, how well could Star Citizen possibly do at release if the vast majority of people interested in it have already poured money into the project? It certainly won't make $77 million in profit. So does the studio disband? Do they immediately start crowd-funding another project? I don't see how the studio can sustain itself post-Star Citizen. Are there going to be in-game purchases after release, too?

It's a space MMO; MMO's are built upon constantly making more content for them after release.

 

[Dictator93]

Of course! Think of all dem poor people. How dare the rich entertain themselves in ways they see fit!

The thing about technology is that the cost of running this game decreases over time. Also.. it will run on mid range PC hardware... it just wont look that good. So what.

There are a lot of weird stigmas against this game and its development at times.

 

[Mookie1515]

The age we live in where even WIRED has to resort to clickbaity titles.

 

[inky]

Maybe the license fees ate away the money that was allocated to the studio development?

That's still a shitload of money for a game like Deadpool. Almost every other game on that list is an ambitious online game, a huge franchise or a big risk expected to be a flagship title. It's just super weird, but their "source" is a line on IMDB, so it might not even be true.

 

[Natureboy99]

Is this a problem?

Only for people who aren't that but would like to play the game.

 

[ElyrionX]

Here's an angle I think most people are missing - my return on investment is getting a better game. The expectation is that the majority of the money's going into efficient development, and that seems to be the case (I'm actually a bit surprised they turned down the one-off $100k voice acting). So, for the guy who spends $20k, he's getting $20k worth of ships, but those ships are also in a game that's that much better because he's kicked in those funds.

People often use sports car analogies here. I'd say in this case, people are kicking in toward a better collective Ferrari (the finished game). The ships are a bonus.

Someone wants a premium experience, they can pay for a premium PC. In this case, they can also support someone working to build a premium game. That's how I see it.

I get it and I am absolutely fascinated by the business model. To actually get so many people to willingly part with so much money on a game? It's brilliant. I need to look into this more when I have the time this weekend.

One thing is clear though. The major publishers have played it way too safe in the past few years.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Rich PC gamers game. The money dumped into it is impressive, but how many people have pledged? I say this because I want to play it, but have abandoned Desktop towers as they are dinosaurs. I have a console and a Windows tablet. The console would run it, and space sim games can be mapped to a controller. But no, every time you mention that the desktop PC elitist chimes in and says 'Impossible'.

Well, it's been done, even recently (Elite Dangerous, No Mans Sky, Wing commander back in the day). You might have to turn down the graphics a bit, and there might be a crazy button combo for eject, but it can be done.

Tell us how you really feel.

 

[Zalusithix]

The real winners are those who didn't spend more than $30.

All backers are winners. This isn't a cost/reward ratio contest (at least by anybody sane). Without the people pledging over $30, there wouldn't be a game. The majority of people pledging big bucks to the game are doing so because they want to see the game made and be the best that it can be. The digital goods that come with that pledging are just a side bonus. They're not competing with those those that pledged lower than them. (Well, they will be in game, but not in the sense of what sort of deal they got.)

I mean, publishers wouldn't greenlight a project this ambitious. Angel investors are only going to get you so far. The money has to come from somewhere. If not from generous fans, then where? If you want to see something like this even have the possibility of coming to fruition, you have to be prepared to cough up some money. If you want to see it but don't have the ability to fund it to any great extent, that's fine. But at the same time, if you fall under that category, then you certainly shouldn't begrudge those that have spent the money. All backers are on the same team.

I say this as somebody who would classify as a "whale" for SC.

 

[Kama_1082]

I might buy it when it's officially released. I refuse to be the canary in the mineshaft just throwing them money in a kickstarter