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Star Citizen - Fans have dropped $77m on this guys buggy, half-built game [WIRED]

So who here bought one of those fixer upper Javelin Destroyers at $2,500 a pop?

Only two hundred people could have gotten them iirc. The org I belong to has over four of them. The Org I belong to has over ten thousand members though.

There are countless number of stories out there about how games end up in development hell and eventually bombed hard. Seriously, they all read like what was written in the article here as well as the comments in this thread. Just go look up Daikatana or for a more recent example, the Kingdoms of Amalur MMO.

Except the game isn't in "development hell" the transparency and actually released modules help everyone see the progress. The schedule which they have basically kept up with so far, seems to be going smoothly. Why are you comparing those games to SC exactly?


I mean, it's hard enough trying to understand people who spend amounts like that for in-game assets on existing games that are already established and running live. But to spend that kind of money on in-game assets for a game that barely exists? It's utterly insane.

But this and Pillars of Eternity clearly show that the big publishers seriously need to alter or expand their business strategies because there clearly is pent-up demand for all these old-school genres from people who have spending power.

Why does it seem that you are more interested at criticizing this game by the seat of your pants and posting large speculation instead of acknowledging what they have already released?

I am playing Pillars of Eternity now and it is a fantastic game that shows what Kickstarter can do for the industry. But it was created with a 13-man team and the size of the team probably expediated the development process a bit as a lot of organizational bullshit can be reduced.

And then you compare the size and scope of Star Citizen to Pillars of Eternity and you want people to take what you are saying seriously?
 

KKRT00

Member
What makes you think the people who made those games before did not know what was wrong with their games? They clearly knew what was wrong. They just did not have the management skills to structure the development process to achieve what they wanted to achieve.

Chris Roberts created this company from scratch and it's now a 320-employee behemoth with offices across four countries. That is absolutely insane. I don't work in the industry but I understand businesses and I can't imagine the amount of organizational structures and processes that need to be set up in such a short time frame to finish an ambitious game. At that kind of size, things like internal politics and middle management inefficiencies will be kicking in hard as well.

I am playing Pillars of Eternity now and it is a fantastic game that shows what Kickstarter can do for the industry. But it was created with a 13-man team and the size of the team probably expediated the development process a bit as a lot of organizational bullshit can be reduced.
You know that he was a Producer for big Hollywood movies right? Its not like he has no experience in that area. No only that he had game companies in the past.

I would recommend You to read monthly reports.
 

R_Deckard

Member
Editted by them, for one commercial. The cinematics team at the time did the in engine set up. That team was two dudes in the top office of CIG's santa monica studio. They detailed it in a video update.

Not my fault the article doesn't show everything.

Also... How does anything in that article instill you with the impression that they are spending all the money on a filmic, cinematic, non.interactive experience with camera cuts? That is your accusation.

Did you read the article? You said it was all in it earlier.

This is just one paragraph on the In-game stuff

Roberts issues his critique, which is more BBDO than C++. “I want to see more of the ship rolling, banking in the exterior shot,” he says. “What lens are you using? Some of those asteroids in the background feel a bit too sharp to me. They need some volumetric dust or fog.”

The spot will be released on YouTube a couple of weeks later, and it helps Cloud Imperium move more than 50,000 Freelancers at $125 a pop. But the video also gives backers a hi-res glimpse of the gameworld and adds a few more details to its lore. “We're essentially building out the world while we're building out the game,” Roberts says. “Like in Robocop, where the cheesy commercials gave you a broader picture of the world.”

He references films a few times in the article, and his love of creating Star Wars is already known.

My point is this is fine if it was accompanied by the same passion to get some final (non patched up) game code that demonstrated the aims and production of the game.

They have more than enough money to stop messing about for media attention, making slick adverts or movies. They just come across as a team that have got carried away with their own hype, lifted by the blind loyal fanbase.

Project cars deal was some profit back from the game for early funds, here as said well above they are just being paid upfront to make a game that even if it fails they have all earned a good wage for the last x years, if a success they take 100% profit...superb business men I would say!
 

Dr. Kaos

Banned
MMOs are made by few studios simultaneously. Read about EVE Online for example.

I'll be happy to read anything you write about it here. I'm not going to go on a multi-hour google quest when you clearly already have the distilled knowledge in your head :)

Share with us, many other people are interested in what you have to say.
 
I also heard they have a tentative 2016 target for a purchaseable game?

Interesting. They showing at E3 this year?

At the end of 2015, based upon whether they release or not, one could just singularly by the first episode of Squadron 42. Which is supposed to be, according to CIG, about 20 consisting of 10 single player missions. I have no idea what that would cost. In 2016 you will in all likelihood be able to buy and play a rudimentary form of the MMO styled persistant universe. With planets, systems, and ship boarding.

Whether CIG is going to E3 is questionable. e3 costs a lot of money and they have avoided going to expensive venues in the past to save money for game dev. Although they have a vertical slice segment that takes place in the middle of the single player campaign that they have prepped. I would imagine it is for stuff like e3 or press events. Not sure.
 

jblank83

Member
Someone more informed than me can answer this one probably...

but what IS the endgame? when is it a game?

1. An open universe trading sim (Privateer, Elite)
2. Linear story campaigns within that open universe, focused on dogfights (Wing Commander)
3. MMO style gameplay if you want to engage in that, or ignore it if you don't
 
Like I mentioned in other Star Citizen threads, just wait until the full game is out. Let the whales spend whatever they have. The key is despite their website showcasing BUY NOW ships, you're not obligated to spend anything but the bare minimum.

If it's grindy, P2W bullshit, then the naysayers have been right and it's not worth playing. If it isn't and has a reasonable grind, the only people who will be pissed off are the whales with deep pockets thinking they could P2W. And frankly CIG should not concern themselves with them. But everything right now is hearsay and we don't know exactly what model they'll use at launch.
 
Money doesn't automatically solve all time issues, so I that headline seems a bit dramatic.

No matter how much money a project make, it will only speed up things if the project owners can employ enough people that can work efficiently, with a design that's finished enough for everyone to know what they're supposed to be doing.

Which is why a lot of kickstarter stretch goals are just silly and bound to fail. :)
 
At the end of 2015, based upon whether they release or not, one could just singularly by the first episode of Squadron 42. Which is supposed to be, according to CIG, about 20 consisting of 10 single player missions. I have no idea what that would cost. In 2016 you will in all likelihood be able to buy and play a rudimentary form of the MMO styled persistant universe. With planets, systems, and ship boarding.

Whether CIG is going to E3 is questionable. e3 costs a lot of money and they have avoided going to expensive venues in the past to save money for game dev. Although they have a vertical slice segment that takes place in the middle of the single player campaign that they have prepped. I would imagine it is for stuff like e3 or press events. Not sure.

I really hope that comes out soon, I desperately want to see campaign footage.
 

Gestault

Member
Why the shit do some websites like Wired use only 20% of your screen's real estate space.

That article uses like 20% of my screen. I'm not browsing on a fucking mobile phone.

Because text reaching too far horizontally doesn't read well. It formatting nicely to smaller-screen devices is an added design bonus.
 

ThomasCro

Member
I PM'd Drew Scanlon from Giant Bomb to see if he is interested in showing the game off in some form, I volunteered to write an email with a brief explanation of all the critical game information because no one at Giant Bomb is willing to do the research themselves, they just keep saying how they don't know what Star Citizen is.

If I get a positive response, I would like people from here to help me write the most concise email I can.
 
1. An open universe trading sim (Privateer, Elite)
2. A linear story campaign within that open universe (Wing Commander)
3. MMO style gameplay if you want to engage in that, or ignore it if you don't

One of those things is a $77 million project all three is going to be incredibly challenging particularly if some folks have gotten into a 'cargo cult' mentality. I've no doubt Chris Roberts can deliver versions of all of these things for the money but given that some fans are asking for 'weapons scanning' on allowing folks into their ships I think we're going to see a lot of melt downs on launch. Dev is always a compromise between what you want to do and what you have to do cutting non-essential features to ship may involve cutting the reasons some folks hopped on board. In a sense I think a campaign that has gone on this long and been so successful may be building up expectations for some fans that are simply impossible to meet regardless of budget.
 

KKRT00

Member
I'll be happy to read anything you write about it here. I'm not going to go on a multi-hour google quest when you clearly already have the distilled knowledge in your head :)

Share with us, many other people are interested in what you have to say.

Oh, so i have to take my time to search for sources, when You just sit and watch? Nope, i dont have time for that.
If You dont know, dont accuse or speculate. If You want to educate Yourself go on. There is tons of dev blog posts about development on EVE Online site and many presentation from their fanfest for example.
 
One of those things is a $77 million project all three is going to be incredibly challenging particularly if some folks have gotten into a 'cargo cult' mentality. I've no doubt Chris Roberts can deliver versions of all of these things for the money but given that some fans are asking for 'weapons scanning' on allowing folks into their ships I think we're going to see a lot of melt downs on launch. Dev is always a compromise between what you want to do and what you have to do cutting non-essential features to ship may involve cutting the reasons some folks hopped on board. In a sense I think a campaign that has gone on this long and been so successful may be building up expectations for some fans that are simply impossible to meet regardless of budget.

Yeah the feature creep criticism is a very strong one

I really hope he LOCKS the game down at some point. Stop taking community suggestions and just finish what you already have.

Always time to iterate later
 
Excluding all that 33 gigabytes of gameplay I have installed on my computer right now and daily content updates via their website. Amirte?.

Okay, how many gigabytes you have on your HDD doesn't matter. How much is there to do? As somebody who has only casually followed this story, would you explain what there is to play?
 
Did you read the article? You said it was all in it earlier.

This is just one paragraph on the In-game stuff
I said the article explained "everything" in regards to someones concerns regarding where the game's money was going. You know... the 300 people distributed at 4 studios as mentioned in the article.
Regarding your CR quote: he is talking about the single player campaign which is like wing commander and al that entails. Aka a story, with cutscenes, a rtaher freeform mission structure, and a big ship your ride around in an engage in hub like conversation.

He references films a few times in the article, and his love of creating Star Wars is already known.

My point is this is fine if it was accompanied by the same passion to get some final (non patched up) game code that demonstrated the aims and production of the game.
You couldn't obviously know this since it isn't in the article but when he references film he doesn't mean aping it, he references it in terms of being "immersive." He likes film's fidelity and world building and thinks video games have the strength in terms of visuals and mechanics to achieve similar immersion and even go beyond that. He lists demon souls and dark souls on top of games like crysis that influence his game design ideas.

This is not in this interview though.
Okay, how many gigabytes you have on your HDD doesn't matter. How much is there to do? As somebody who has only casually followed this story, would you explain what there is to play?

One can currently play 2 PVP space ship fighting modes, 1 racing mode, 1 fuck around mode, and 1 coop with buddies horde mode.
 

jett

D-Member
I didn't know Chris Roberts himself had directed that awful Wing Commander movie.
Maybe that should've tipped off Squaresoft that game directors are not movie directors. :p

The average Star Citizen backer has contributed $96. To date, Knight's total investment is $22,501. He has no regrets. “I'm a professional, I'm married to a professional, and I have no debts, so I have resources to put into my hobby,” he says. “You could spend this much restoring a car. I know people who have $3,000 paintball markers.

I'd like to know what his wife thinks of this shit. Personally, you have to be certifiable to spend this sort of cash on something that is totally unfinished and a total question mark in terms of final quality. The article isn't wrong.
 

ElyrionX

Member
I love how anguished everyone is about Star Citizen and it's crowdfunding. Everyone except the backers who actually see what's going on with the development.

That's actually a clear sign of the issues. Many backers would have confirmation bias because they've already put money into the game and want to believe that it would succeed.

Non-backers would actually be more objective. What would we have to gain if the game succeeds or fail? If it does well, we get a great game to play. If it doesn't, it's a loss for everyone.

I played Elite Dangerous and liked it quite a bit so I was actually looking forward to Star Citizen but wasn't following its development at all. But I keep seeing that dogfighting thread pop up on GAF in the past year so I assumed that the game was nearing the end of its development.
 

inky

Member
No

This is why we have a Topic

To discuss and diseminate information in an efficient manner. Stop derailing and expecting me to go down the rabbit hole with you

I just want to hear you explain it to me like we were having lunch together

Pitch it man

LMAO

Do the legwork or shut up. No one is obligated to keep discussing things with you when you don't make the minimum effort to inform your opinions. You say people pointing you to the site to get answers are "derailing" when you have done nothing but make ignorant assumptions about things that are public knowledge and insinuated backers had a cult mentality, then just feign skepticism.

You are the one derailing by pretending you even care about development except when it doesn't follow your preconceived narrative.
 
Not really
A lot of that is gonna be marketing/publishing expenses too id assume

Similar circumstances though. Highly touted dev creating highly ambitious game with significant funding. The SC site alone is marketable, but are they planning any advertising and reaching out to channels that are TV/Print?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/project-status

This includes years worth of weekly updates. but not only that there are youtube videos, conference presentations, articles that give time and dates. The thread we have here on haf is huge and filled with info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=830383

There is so much information out on the game I haven't been able to go through it all myself.

Thanks. I'll take a look. Is there any information on SP Campaign?
 

ThomasCro

Member
There is a serious fear that the game will end up a jack of all trades, master of none.

I paid the lowest possible entry point at $35 and am just crossing my fingers and waiting to see how it goes.

I am actually having fun with the current build of the game though.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Here are their plans for public releases in 2015, and there is much more to be done in 2016. I don't believe full game will finished in 2016. They are making a big big game.

WMDH3Ad.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FSNjPXMMqCE#t=1291
 

Saganator

Member
I know a guy who bought his PS4 at launch for Bloodborne. He hasn't bought Bloodborne because he just spent $300 on some StarCitizen spaceship. He's spent over $500 total on digital spaceships. Insane. I hope the game is good.
 
I played Elite Dangerous and liked it quite a bit so I was actually looking forward to Star Citizen but wasn't following its development at all. But I keep seeing that dogfighting thread pop up on GAF in the past year so I assumed that the game was nearing the end of its development.

That thread pops up all the time because people are constantly discussing their content updates. The game has only been in real development since the kickstarter campaign ended. So about 2 years (end of 2012) with a number of the game devs having had worked on the game for less than 1 year almost.
 
LMAO

Do the legwork or shut up. No one is obligated to keep discussing things with you when you don't make the minimum effort to inform your opinions. You say people pointing you to the site to get answers are "derailing" when you have done nothing but make ignorant assumptions about things that are public knowledge and insinuated backers had a cult mentality by feigning skepticism.

You are the one derailing by pretending you even care about development except when it doesn't follow your preconceived narrative.

What is the purpose of the topic if not to discuss and have informed people share details in far less words?

You really think every single gaffer that comes in here is gonna read the walls of text you link to?

You're derailing by throwing out insults instead of providing the concise info you appear to have
 
Yeah the feature creep criticism is a very strong one

I really hope he LOCKS the game down at some point. Stop taking community suggestions and just finish what you already have.

Always time to iterate later

There hasn't been any features added since the 66 million goal and honestly if you read the goals the vast majority of the later ones were something that were achievable because they were going to implement it in some basic form earlier.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

So when you get people complaining about feature creep versus what was projected in the beginning one would ask that you stop and look a bit more at the history of the project before stating such things. Outside of the ship modularity the goals for the past 20+ million have basically been addition of specialized ships.

I'd like to know what his wife thinks of this shit. Personally, you have to be certifiable to spend this sort of cash on something that is totally unfinished and a total question mark in terms of final quality. The article isn't wrong.

Or he can have that much cash to burn without worrying about it. Just like all backing of projects one goes in with expectations of success not failure.
 
That's actually a clear sign of the issues. Many backers would have confirmation bias because they've already put money into the game and want to believe that it would succeed.

Non-backers would actually be more objective. What would we have to gain if the game succeeds or fail? If it does well, we get a great game to play. If it doesn't, it's a loss for everyone.

I played Elite Dangerous and liked it quite a bit so I was actually looking forward to Star Citizen but wasn't following its development at all. But I keep seeing that dogfighting thread pop up on GAF in the past year so I assumed that the game was nearing the end of its development.
Considering that backers are often the first ones to call devs out on bullshit or complain about lack of updates and progress, I think you have it backwards. Backers are more wary and mindful of things like that, problems with development, etc. than the average non-backer.
 

Haunted

Member
I love how anguished everyone is about Star Citizen and it's crowdfunding. Everyone except the backers who actually see what's going on with the development.
It was pretty much the same with Doublefine and Broken Age.

The backers were always the most relaxed and confident about the project since they were kept up to date with the excellent documentary series, while outside people were screaming doom and gloom.
 

MUnited83

For you.
I didn't know Chris Roberts himself had directed that awful Wing Commander movie.
Maybe that should've tipped off Squaresoft that game directors are not movie directors. :p



I'd like to know what his wife thinks of this shit. Personally, you have to be certifiable to spend this sort of cash on something that is totally unfinished and a total question mark in terms of final quality. The article isn't wrong.
They don't any debts and it's his money. What's the issue here exactly? I guarantee you people spend much more than that on other hobbies even with debts to pay off.
 

tokkun

Member
As an outsider looking in, this project has all the appearance of a speculative investment bubble. Especially with investment gimmicks like the early promotion for lifetime ship insurance and the limited ship quantities that try to convince buyers that this is their chance to get in on the ground floor. It's difficult to trust the opinions of investors to be objective, because they have a vested interest in the project succeeding. If you have spent $2500 on an in-game item, you will desperately want to believe that you are going to get some commensurate value out of it. So when people come along and express skepticism, they get defensive about it. That's a good gut-check for people putting money into this game. If you find yourself getting angry that other people are doubting its success, you are probably not thinking rationally.

You could see the same sort of dynamic here in threads about Bitcoin 16 months ago. Even though we had seen similar bubbles many times in the past, there were a lot of people who believed that this time it would be different. People who posted historical examples of the life cycle of speculative investments were decried as 'haters'. Similarly, people want to believe that this time a game - which vastly increased its ambitions from the original plan, which has gone all-in on feature creep, which sees its release day slipping into uncertainty, which is being developed in pieces by many different studios and is supposed to be patched together into one cohesive whole - will be different. But as someone who is not invested, that does not sound like a recipe for success if history is our guide.
 
It was pretty much the same with Doublefine and Broken Age.

The backers were always the most relaxed and confident about the project since they were kept up to date with the excellent documentary series, while outside people were screaming doom and gloom.

I think a lot of it comes from the dollar amounts

The bigger something becomes the scarier the "monster" in the room becomes

That said it would appear that those in the know are pretty confident and its not like you guys aren't aware of what has happened to less successful ventures
 
Don't worry guys, the general GAF population will eventually come to terms with the fact that Star Citizen isn't all some elaborate, content-less, update-less scam.

Just like how they came to terms with WoW not being dead/dying/doomed, or that there *is* actually something to do in No Man's Sky.

I look forward to that day.
 

inky

Member
What is the purpose of the topic if not to discuss and have informed people share details in far less words?

You really think every single gaffer that comes in here is gonna read the walls of text you link to?

You're derailing by throwing out insults instead of providing the concise info you appear to have

The purpose is to discuss the game with the context provided by the article that spawned it. So there is a minimal legwork to be done before you even start making assumptions, which apparently you haven't considering your assumptions start minutes into this thread and haven't stopped since then. Now you are expecting people to summarize information 1 click away necessary for such discussion.

And nothing in my post is an insult. You being ignorant on the game and its development is a fact.
 
1 Millions USD for space plants?! OUTRAGEOUS.

That feature creep!

That's actually a clear sign of the issues.

Actually it is a clear sign of people simply wanting to criticize without doing research. You do not have to spend a dime to see the status, updates, news and information on the game. I even linked to the Gaf thread earlier which had a wealth of info and links. So it really isn't about lack of info, it is about some people who cannot be bothered reading (or watching videos) of that info that want to speculate and throw out empty accusations in the air.

What is the purpose of the topic if not to discuss and have informed people share details in far less words?

You really think every single gaffer that comes in here is gonna read the walls of text you link to?

You're derailing by throwing out insults instead of providing the concise info you appear to have


People are putting out information and links. The issue is there has been alot of information that has come out detailing the status and progress of the titles for the past few years. So either you are looking for info or you are looking for a sales pitch. People have pointed you to the info, no one is really interested in making a sales pitch to you.
 

Harpuea

Member
I have been following SC just on youtube and didn't pledge a dime. There are youtuber out there who even made enough content to fills their channel with nothing, but SC contents. Dogfight footages, ships reviews, dogfighting analysis, etc. It's only alpha too. They are doing amazing work for a kickstarter game to me.

Lots of comments here are just drive by post fueled by ignorance. Repeated ad infinitum.
 

R_Deckard

Member
I said the article explained "everything" in regards to someones concerns regarding where the game's money was going. You know... the 300 people distributed at 4 studios as mentioned in the article.
Regarding your CR quote: he is talking about the single player campaign which is like wing commander and al that entails. Aka a story, with cutscenes, a rtaher freeform mission structure, and a big ship your ride around in an engage in hub like conversation.


You couldn't obviously know this since it isn't in the article but when he references film he doesn't mean aping it, he references it in terms of being "immersive." He likes film's fidelity and world building and thinks video games have the strength in terms of visuals and mechanics to achieve similar immersion and even go beyond that. He lists demon souls and dark souls on top of games like crysis that influence his game design ideas.

This is not in this interview though.


One can currently play 2 PVP space ship fighting modes, 1 racing mode, 1 fuck around mode, and 1 coop with buddies horde mode.
Thanks for the info, I still see it as the same influence all game makers have, films are the ideal and I agree. It is always the balance that needs to be managed, from this article and my following of the game (not massive but I am interested) I still have no real feel for it other than like Elite and Halo within an MMO but all split off. I get no feeling of "What" the game is and just want to see something from them.
 
The purpose is to discuss the game with the context provided by the article that spawned it. So there is a minimal legwork to be done before you even start making assumptions, which apparently you haven't.

And nothing in my post is an insult. You being ignorant on the game and its development is a fact.

No I read the entire article and have been quoting it and responding to the topic

And I have no problem being corrected for my ignorance. Move on please
 

RK9039

Member
Don't worry guys, the general GAF population will eventually come to terms with the fact that Star Citizen isn't all some elaborate, content-less, update-less scam.

Just like how they came to terms with WoW not being dead/dying/doomed, or that there *is* actually something to do in No Man's Sky.

I look forward to that day.

Yup, that No Man's Sky comparison is very true. It's funny seeing how differently people react to these games.
 
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