ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Ok, I think we need to all calm down.
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Stephen King's IT |OT| He thrusts his fists and then he posts (Unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter Kyleripman
- Start date
Ok, I think we need to all calm down.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It thrusts its fists against the posts and still insists it sees the ghosts it thrusts its fi
rackham
Banned
..You're drunk.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
sts against the posts and still insists it sees the ghosts it thrusts its fists again
Poor GRIMES
Banned
It enjoys toying wih its victims.
This is implied within the first 5 minutes of the film when Georgie is scared shitless at the thought of going into the cellar and seeing It's eyes stare him down as he grabbed the boat for his brother. It could have killed him there, but It likes playing the game and fucking with people.
That's not what I wrote, not what I argued, and not what anyone else arguing with you is saying. You didn't address the point I made nor the example I gave. It's like you are reading people's posts, hitting Delete, and writing what you want them to say instead. If you're going to continue this line of discussion stop being so disingenuous.
I said it's one of the film's failings, not that the film is a failure. Again, I think you're being oddly defensive here and not taking what people are saying at face value.
I'll do a longer post in a moment but I enjoyed it overall. Solid B. The stuff that works is great, but there are some things that didn't work. The book is often quite terrifying, but the film seldom is, despite trying to be.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Pennywise wasn't in the cellar. That was just Georgie scaring himself.
Psychoward
Banned
Also I was not expecting them to go full R with Georgie. That screams as he's crawling away were pretty fucking disturbing.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
It's eyes were glowing straight at Georgie.
This shot was recalled again when Bill went down into the cellar himself later down in the movie when he saw Georgie's apparition.
PapaGreg95
Member
That kinda debatable.
Its one thing seeing a child get murdered in a horror movie but seeing the child grasping for life is just heartbreaking, something about Georgie crying for Bill and trying to get away only for Pennywise to stretch his arm and finish the job just makes it sad and terrifying. Salting the meat indeed
Uh. That was glints off a bottle. He shines his flashlight on them, pennywise didn't show up until the storm drain.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
That's not how I interpreted it when It's eyes themselves emit a glow and It's capable of creating illusions. It, in every first encounter with the cast, has glowing eyes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not at all debatable. The little kid got scared by light shining off two bottles. Pennywise wasn't down there. Not in the book, not in the miniseries, not in this movie.
Pennywise's deadlights are in his mouth in this movie anyway, not his actual eyes.
Little kid just spooked himself in the basement. Like all little kids do. It's supposed to put you at ease/catch you off guard before the actual bullshit goes down less than 5 minutes later.
Pennywise isn't down there. He's in the sewer. That's how he travels. He pops up in that storm grate because there's a kid sticking his face in it and he just woke up.
Pennywise wasn't exactly subtle this entire movie.
I agree with the bottle comment as well.
What they should've done was show Georgie turning on his flashlight, turning them off and the pair of "eyes" moved somewhere else in the room.
Any time it did a psychological thing like that it was his actual eyes. In the cellar it was points of light that were shined upon and revealed to be ambient light on a bottle.
It was a red herring scare, Georgie was afraid of the dark and basement and had an apparent history of being scared of the basement.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Then why were It's eyes glowing when it first encountered Bill at the cellar?
I find it hard to believe that Georgie is merely afraid of the dark when he is more than willing to go outside whilst storming all by himself.
Georgie "feeling watched" in the basement is something he always felt when he went down there by himself. Hence, his hesitation and fear of going down there to retrieve the boat.
This aligns with It not willing to go for the jugular for the rest of the cast as well. It was a deliberate choice for the director to show the glow and reuse the set for Bill's first encounter as well.
Further, the bully who goes missing is also fucked with as well. It could have easily killed the kid right there when the corpses of the missing children appeared, but he opted to fuck with him and chase him down further into the sewer.
PapaGreg95
Member
I'm just saying who to say Pennywise wasn't watching Georgie in the basement, the dude can pretty much be anywhere at anytime so maybe he could've been spying on Georgie or some other kids
Dandy Crocodile
Member
I think that was the natural fear of cellars that kids have. Seeing stuff that isn't there.
It's like that in the book too, but without the eyes. Georgie imagines various frightening scenarios before he goes down.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Heard from a friend a unique comparison.
He compared the original mini series to breaking bad and the new movie to the fictional show in in the movie Idocracy 'Ow My Balls.'
'One makes you think while the other just serves entertainment on a platter. Dude the world wants less citizen Kane and more Ow My Balls right now.
He compared the original mini series to breaking bad and the new movie to the fictional show in in the movie Idocracy 'Ow My Balls.'
'One makes you think while the other just serves entertainment on a platter. Dude the world wants less citizen Kane and more Ow My Balls right now.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know? I don't even remember its eyes glowing. It's deadlights are in its mouth in this movie.
Pennywise isn't in the Denbrough's basement except as a vision to Bill using Georgie as his puppet. The beginning of the film it's just light on two bottles on a shelf. Pennywise is in the sewer at that time, and eats Georgie because Georgie stuck his face in the sewer and he'd just woken up from 27 years of sleep.
Sounds like your friend is a dope.
Dandy Crocodile
Member
Your friend comparing the miniseries to Breaking Bad says all I need to know about their taste.
Oh I just remembered another part I loved-when Bill runs up the stairs from the cellar - and as soon as he's away, Pennywise slumps to the ground limp and gets "pulled" back. The puppet wasn't necessary when not in view of Bill.
I don't Bobby, but the small things like that I did notice right away and it just got worse and worse as the film went on.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
When was the last time your friend watched the miniseries?
Psychoward
Banned
What no it isn't lol, they showed what it actually is
Poor GRIMES
Banned
It is symbolic of all children's worst fears.
Who is to say that It didn't cause Georgie to be further afraid of the cellar? It making the cellar Georgie's most feared location then immediately preying on him afterwards tells me that he's been fucking with the kid long before he manifested as Pennywise in the drains.
I don't know what deadlights are, because I don't want to read a book that contains imagery of Beverly being put in that position.
But It's eyes glow. They continually glow and they change color as well.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
Pennywise's eyes definitely glowed when Mike first sees him.
Dandy Crocodile
Member
I can concede that based on the sheer fact this is Derry it's quite possible SOMETHING was influencing the fear factor of the cellar but I don't think it was directly done by It.
No.
Psychoward
Banned
Lobster clown?
Anyway.
Most of the stuff with the kids is great, we need to believe in these friendships and relationships for the film to work, and to the extent that it does, it's because the kids are so damn great. Mike and Stan kind of got stranded - I'm guessing they took the brunt of the editing - but were still strongly characterized and fit into the group well. Ben and Bev in particular stood out, but no one was bad.
I liked how they handled the Henry Bowers. He was a monster, but one we could understand and even have a touch of empathy for. Him laying there after the rock fight was a good moment, when he was just a vulnerable kid who was hurt. Deserved what he got, but seeing his posture stripped down humanized him. Even one line of dialogue would have been nice about why they were after Ben. Bullies don't pick targets at random.
For the most part, I really like what they did with Pennywise/IT. I was worried at the multiple bum-rush scenes from the trailers and impressions, but in the film that's just how it attacks after it's sufficiently scared someone. There was a method to it, and I rolled with it. He had a mischievous but menacing presence. I really liked the basement scene with Georgie, and IT slowly revealing the rotting Georgie puppet.
Problem was, I wasn't scared of IT, and I stopped being scared really early on. I'm not going to go into any particular book spoilers, but I will say that when each of the kids encounter IT, they do so when it's plainly trying to kill them. At no point is It just fucking with them, and that's what half of the encounters in the film consisted of. Something that's just messing with people isn't threatening, but something that is relentlessly trying to kill them can be. This was one of the film's earliest and most fundamental mistakes.
The other was having IT only feed on the kids fear rather than their flesh. I'm actually really confused about that, as portrayed in the film. IT doesn't intentionally terrify Georgie before striking - It lures him in by trying to appear non-threatening and then just grabs hold and chomps. Yet, it doesn't even attempt to kill the other kids when they are not scared of it. So which was it? Could it kill a kid that wasn't scared? Did it feel on their flesh, their fears, or both? I don't know, and because I don't know, I couldn't really buy into how the ending fight played out.
Bobby has hit on this a lot, but Derry wasn't spooky and didn't have any kind of presence. And that was enormously to the film's detriment, the film as a whole didn't have any particular atmosphere to it, either. It was just a town, not a haunted fucked up town where horrible things have happened for centuries. It's not enough to have one character tell us that Derry is messed up. We gotta feel it. But it's not there, and so the town is just kind of wallpaper.
At any rate - the kids were the heart of the film and they got that right. And there was a lot of neat, even fucked up visuals. But it wasn't really scary and in some ways missed the essence of the book when it de-prioritized Derry as a place. Still, I had a fun time. My kid did too, as did the pretty full theater.
The claws it briefly sprouts during the ending fight. It's book territory this half was setting up.
Most of the stuff with the kids is great, we need to believe in these friendships and relationships for the film to work, and to the extent that it does, it's because the kids are so damn great. Mike and Stan kind of got stranded - I'm guessing they took the brunt of the editing - but were still strongly characterized and fit into the group well. Ben and Bev in particular stood out, but no one was bad.
I liked how they handled the Henry Bowers. He was a monster, but one we could understand and even have a touch of empathy for. Him laying there after the rock fight was a good moment, when he was just a vulnerable kid who was hurt. Deserved what he got, but seeing his posture stripped down humanized him. Even one line of dialogue would have been nice about why they were after Ben. Bullies don't pick targets at random.
For the most part, I really like what they did with Pennywise/IT. I was worried at the multiple bum-rush scenes from the trailers and impressions, but in the film that's just how it attacks after it's sufficiently scared someone. There was a method to it, and I rolled with it. He had a mischievous but menacing presence. I really liked the basement scene with Georgie, and IT slowly revealing the rotting Georgie puppet.
Problem was, I wasn't scared of IT, and I stopped being scared really early on. I'm not going to go into any particular book spoilers, but I will say that when each of the kids encounter IT, they do so when it's plainly trying to kill them. At no point is It just fucking with them, and that's what half of the encounters in the film consisted of. Something that's just messing with people isn't threatening, but something that is relentlessly trying to kill them can be. This was one of the film's earliest and most fundamental mistakes.
The other was having IT only feed on the kids fear rather than their flesh. I'm actually really confused about that, as portrayed in the film. IT doesn't intentionally terrify Georgie before striking - It lures him in by trying to appear non-threatening and then just grabs hold and chomps. Yet, it doesn't even attempt to kill the other kids when they are not scared of it. So which was it? Could it kill a kid that wasn't scared? Did it feel on their flesh, their fears, or both? I don't know, and because I don't know, I couldn't really buy into how the ending fight played out.
Bobby has hit on this a lot, but Derry wasn't spooky and didn't have any kind of presence. And that was enormously to the film's detriment, the film as a whole didn't have any particular atmosphere to it, either. It was just a town, not a haunted fucked up town where horrible things have happened for centuries. It's not enough to have one character tell us that Derry is messed up. We gotta feel it. But it's not there, and so the town is just kind of wallpaper.
At any rate - the kids were the heart of the film and they got that right. And there was a lot of neat, even fucked up visuals. But it wasn't really scary and in some ways missed the essence of the book when it de-prioritized Derry as a place. Still, I had a fun time. My kid did too, as did the pretty full theater.
The claws it briefly sprouts during the ending fight. It's book territory this half was setting up.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
This is my first full exposure to It and its mythos so I'm not familiar with any of Derry's history as a town itself so I might be wrong.
As someone who has seen only his film though, it seemed deliberate to have Georgie already afraid then encountering Pennywise almost directly afterwards.
Stan is also scared shitless that he has to go to his father's study (?) alone when the painting lady manifested, so something tells me that these children are being taunted and fucked with by It. It aligns with why It does not just kill evey child in the town at every opportunity too.
Psychoward
Banned
Could just be because that painting was scary as shit and they're young kids alone in a dark room.
Spider legs. Lobster claws. Idk what it is. But it was during the fight scene in the sewer.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They're in this movie. The three lights at the bottom of his throat that make Bev float.
Also, I know his eyes change color and roll around in his head but I don't know that they glow, at least not like the light reflecting off the bottom of the bottles. I don't know how much of it is just Shatner lighting going on or how much of it was actual glowing, but I'm pretty sure: He's not in that basement until he appears to Bill.
Georgie is scared of the basement because it's a spooky basement and he's a little kid. Stan is freaked out by the painting because it's a freaky painting.
Pennywise only JUST got up at the start of the movie for his next 27 year cycle. This is shouted out in the film itself. Stan is scared of that painting long before Pennywise shows up, and Georgie doesn't like that basement before Pennywise says hi in the sewers, too.
beau_beaumont
Member
I guess I understand the complaints that the body count is a little low, but I think Georgie's death was enough to establish how dangerous Pennywise was. As an older brother, his death was heartbreaking. The death of one young, innocent little boy was enough. If it had gone any further, it would have felt like torture porn to me.
I understand that there is a certain expectation of a high body count for a horror movie, but it seems like some people feel that a certain amount of bloodlust must be fulfilled or else the movie isn't scary. Seeing child after child die is something that belongs in an exploitation film, and this movie is better because it didn't go there. I don't know what happens in the book, but seeing the Losers beat the shit out of It in the end was such a great scene because they all came together in the end to face their fears. Maybe that's not the story some people were expecting, but it sure as hell resonated with me.
I understand that there is a certain expectation of a high body count for a horror movie, but it seems like some people feel that a certain amount of bloodlust must be fulfilled or else the movie isn't scary. Seeing child after child die is something that belongs in an exploitation film, and this movie is better because it didn't go there. I don't know what happens in the book, but seeing the Losers beat the shit out of It in the end was such a great scene because they all came together in the end to face their fears. Maybe that's not the story some people were expecting, but it sure as hell resonated with me.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Maybe, but it doesn't make sense why It doesn't just kill outright then. Honestly, I find the film far more effective with It as a looming psychological presence taunting children than It actually being a Freddy-type slasher hellbent on killing kids onscreen every 25 or so minutes.
It would have been a mistake for It to just be a glorified slasher archetype imo. This type of horror really works with how Kubrick adapted The Shining, too.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Georgie's death was more than enough for me to establish that this clown is dangerous.
It's more or less the same with a better budget.
It's more or less the same with a better budget.