I want to see though whether the horror scenes feel more organic in how they play out compared to here where they just feel like another setpiece.
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Stephen King's IT |OT| He thrusts his fists and then he posts (Unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter Kyleripman
- Start date
I want to see though whether the horror scenes feel more organic in how they play out compared to here where they just feel like another setpiece.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This has been specifically called out by the people arguing it (myself included) as not being the case, and then explained further to show how it's not the case so I'm not sure how you're arriving there.
scoobs
Member
I think what sets this movie, and Get Out apart from most of the recent horror movies Hollywood has been churning out is that they took the time to get the characters right, casted perfectly, and didn't rely on jump scares to make the movie creepy (although they use them at the right times)
I wish they could have ramped up the scare-factor a bit on this one, but I'm definitely pleased with the end result and put it right up there with Get Out as my favorite horror movies of the last few years.
I wish they could have ramped up the scare-factor a bit on this one, but I'm definitely pleased with the end result and put it right up there with Get Out as my favorite horror movies of the last few years.
The act of firing the gun was a metaphorical bolt that damaged pennywise. It showed the kid had no fear of him so it was probably even more effective than if it had an actual Bolt.
Give me three examples in this film where pennywise's scares did not rely on a jump scare.
This whole movie was jump scares, lol.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They don't. The miniseries does almost nothing at all right.
Curry carries every bit of it, and he's not even in it that much.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
I didn't find Get Out scary either tbh. I found it to be much more reminiscent of a black comedy than a straight up horror film.
I agree with you though. Contemporary horror movies deliberately develop characters for 5 minutes max if even that. Treating your characters other than glorified devices for setpieces really works.
IT in the book is pretty terrifying, and part of the reason for that is we see it kill quite a bit. It's too reductive to say people who found that element missing just have bloodlust for dead kids. That is NOT the argument being made.
What we wanted was to be afraid of It, and the body count is one of the ways that could be achieved. Another, which I touched on in my last post, would be to make it a more serious threat to the Losers rather than just have it appear and screw with them (such as Mike's encounter). To take it seriously, It can't just be something that shows up to go "Boo!" It should have been seriously going after them in each encounter. I think if they did that but kept the body count the same, it would have helped.
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah I noticed it but it got better after the first few minutes for some reason. It was hard to hear the dialog in the opening and school scene but after that it was good.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I heard it fine in my theater.
Right, and the only reason they're still alive is that they somehow fought it off. Here it just feels like random luck or plot armor. I was really hoping for the werewolf encounter on Neibolt with Bill/Ritchie getting away on Silver, something of that nature.
scoobs
Member
At no point was I offended by the directors choice of when to put in a scare. This movie earns them, something I can't say about 95% of the horror movies I watch these days (and I watch them all)
BeardyChan
Member
Elements of the score were definitely louder in certain sections and scenes. Outside of that I thought it was a fine mix.
I really enjoyed the movie and hope it does well enough for Chapter 2.
More_Badass
Member
It's not a debate. It's taken straight from the book. In the book, George is scared of going in there because he imagines what kind of monsters could be down in the cellar, but there isn't anything. This comes back around to the "Pennywise in the storm drain" moment happens because King says how what George sees is worse than anything he could ever imagine in the cellar and his sanity shatters at the sight.
This movie is filled to the brim with jump scares even at times that are unnecessary.
scoobs
Member
I guess I just don't remember them then? Name off a few that were particularly egregious. Is it really a jump scare when they spend the first few minutes building it up? That's called a payoff.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
So were the kids rescued? Never read the book.
beau_beaumont
Member
I don't understand how asking for a higher body count isn't related, at least partially, to bloodlust. It's part of how horror movies work. I get that. I have a special place in my heart for slasher movies, but watching all the characters die by the end is such a cliche by this point. It's a formula that has grown very stale and boring to me.
I just don't think that, naritively, another child's death would have made the film any better, or the villain any scarier. The climax of the story was them coming together to face their fears. Each kid had his/her own fears to face. That is probably the central theme of the whole film. Killing a character would have robbed them of sharing this moment together. I'm glad the movie took the high road in this regard.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
They work more than they don't. If you can make a jump scare fun then I don't really have a problem.
The missing kids? They're dead.
Bev knocking her dad out and camera panning to pennywise choking her.
Leper guy coming out of nowhere in broad daylight.
Egg hunting IT sequence.
Shall I continue ?
Theres plenty of jump scares, the most egregious was when Bev hits her dad and turns around and the clowns at her throat.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
They were noted as "floating down" so I thought maybe they'd wake up or something.
More_Badass
Member
This. A jump scare becomes payoff when it's the capper to a sequence of extended tension or dread. That's how jump scares are supposed to be used effectively; they aren't inherently bad. Pretty much all the best and classic horror movies have jump scares
scoobs
Member
This is a totally unearned, garbage jumpscare from Ammityville Horror (a movie I would recommend to nobody, unless you're drunk and think its funny how bad it is)
The shit you're listing was built-up for several minutes with real tension, those aren't jump scares.
The shit you're listing was built-up for several minutes with real tension, those aren't jump scares.
Hey man, a month later blood pact to meet at camp firewood ten years later is More important than resolving dangling plot threads.
You know my man, you got a point there. I never thought of it like that.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Those were some cool scenes. Bev getting grabbed was like the selling point for the trailer.
The problem for me, is that all those "payoffs" were extremely predictable and therefore ineffective as a method of actually being scary.
1.Georgie hitting his head on the Derry barricade. Doesn't really add anything to the scene.
2.Stan turning around and seeing the painting lady. It had already built up to the idea that she was in the room. Felt kind of cheap and boring to just do a jump scare there.
3.The balloon popping in Patrick's face. Really telegraphed and leads straight into another Pennywise bumrushing the camera scene.
The primary method of actually scaring the audience in this film was jumpscares. That might be why the projector scene works as well as it does, since the cuts correspond to the projector going in and out.
The problem is that they used it in virtually every scenario possible and thus made it really predictable as to how a scene would play out.
but were they good though? I thought the projection one was great.
More_Badass
Member
It's true. Alien, Halloween, The Witch, The Exorcist all have jump scares. A jump scare is fine when it's being used as the exclaimation point, but you need the sentence beforehand to give that punctuation context and meaning
A lot of movies rely on them as a crutch, or cheap ways for a quick startle that makes no sense narratively, rather than taking the effort to build up.
Yeah when they where in the tunnel and that kid was outside
The projection one was super predictable. The moment the mother / red heads hair was obscuring her face it was like "ok here comes pennywise". All tension disappeared from the scene as they slowly zoomed in
And In on her face because you knew it was coming.
They did this before when the kid was flipping the history book in the library, it was a reused motif.
Aside from a projector not working the way it did when it got really fast (whatever I'll let them have that lol), the escape from the screen just introduced a bigger issue:
If pennywise could be larger than life, why the hell not use that to his advantage later on in the film?
ZeroTheShadow
Member
It's impossible for clowns to be scarey. They are just too funny. Movie was fun, I had a good time.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
1. Georgie getting hit in the head slowed him down and prevented him from not letting the boat float into the sewers.
2. It was to show us that Pennywise can turn your fears into living things.
3. That's not a jump scare. You see the balloon pop and he's there standing for 5 seconds before he rushes him.
1. Could have happened anyway. The boat gets too much speed and Georgie can't keep up or just have him trip.
2. That could have still been done without the jump scare.
3. That's totally a jump scare. There's the sound itself then you see Pennywise.
I do think showing IT only killing two children on screen was a mistake. It took a lot of tension out of the series of vignettes of each kid encountering IT and then the house sequence. I remember when Bill went to the basement and encountered Georgie and IT ran after him and all he did was run up the stairs while IT just kinda slumped over on the stairs. My girlfriend at the point was like "this clown kinda sucks at killing anything." I had more fear that mike was going to get killed by that bully than I did of IT killing any of the children at that point in the film.
More_Badass
Member
How is 1 a "jump scare"? I've seen that scene, something coming at the screen doesn't automatically make it a jump scare.
And 3? Again, you're classifying the sound as a jump scare?
beau_beaumont
Member
I agree with you that they could have made It seem more threatening, and you're right: no other deaths are required. The book is, what, over 1000 pages long, so I can understand the need to have It kill a lot of people to keep the tension up. I just don't think the movie, with a two-hour runtime, would have been scarier with another death. The idea of an entity that feeds on children's fear is plenty terrifying enough. Any other kills beyond the two would have honestly felt repetitive in my eyes. I guess I'm in the "less is more" camp.
Sharp sound cues along with a big visual change, with the intention of scaring or jarring the viewer, is generally defined as a jump scare.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
1. I think your nitpicking that scene. He simply got clumsy and banged his head. They showed that he was perfectly keeping up with the boat before it happened.
2. It's a pretty good jump scare. It's a very weird looking woman.
3. You know as soon as you see the balloon that Pennywise is gonna show up.
Bowers was arguably more incompetent than Pennywise. Where was his knife? Why didn't he just push Mike into the well? He gave him so many chances to fight back.
I'm curious when your friend watched the original mini-series last. Except for Tim Curry's Pennywise, nothing else in there reaches any level of greatness. The kids section is alright, though I find it more poorly paced than the new movie, but the adult section is not good at all, save for one or two scares. Scenes range from boring to cringe-worthy (e.g. Mike and Bill riding Silver).
IdreamofHIME
Member
Hehe, when I saw this there was two drunk guys fighting down the front. Didn't even stop the movie, just let it play out.
Psychoward
Banned
How did the mom know that they were all in the mansion btw
I have a suspicion that that mom knew about pennywise. She seemed really scared when her kid decided to go off his meds and rejoin his friends. There was a very subtle subtext that she was afraid of pennywise as if she encountered him 27 years previous.
Galactic Specter
Member
I didn't notice any forced scares, all of the scary moments had actual tension building up. The entire scene with Edvard Munch lady in the beginning is exemplifies this.