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Steve Kent blasts Nintendo, 7 rules for fixing nintendo

AniHawk

Member
Agent Dormer said:
That Red Sox comment ruined the entire article. If you're gonna reference that old curse, make sure to get the info right.

Strangely though, it's not even in the real article.
 

AirBrian

Member
border said:
All this stuff about the market expanding, and yet magazines are going out of business, publishers are on the brink, and EA is buying everything under the sun. The market can expand, but the companies running things may still need to consolidate. A dwindling marketshare may mean that you'll just be overtaken by one of the behemoths.
Good point. As development/production costs continue to rise, we're just going to keep seeing development houses being sucked up by larger companies. It's simply too expense for some of these people to develop a game for one console with a limited market share, let alone all three consoles.

There is plenty of room for this industry to grow, but at the cost of the smaller developers IMO.
 

Vortac

Member
Good article...

Don't be delusional in thinking that Nintendo has a haven in Japan. If anything their mindshare over there has gotten worse than in the west because people in the west are far more nostalgic and people in Japan are all about the latest and greatest...pop stars over there are chewed up and spit out within months of their debut.

Go troll the 2ch boards for proof...most Japanese people think Nintendo shouldn't release Revolution and should develop for PS3.
 
SantaCruZer said:
While it's true, it sounds too generic to only create 1st person shooters and EA like sports games. No thanks.

I don't think he's saying that's all Nintendo should make, he's saying Nintendo should use some balance. They have US developers, have them develop these types of games. They need some that appeal to the biggest market. Last generation the entire top 10 best selling games in the US were filled with games on the N64. This gen they have exactly 1 game in the top 10 best sellers (SSBM), and by the time this gen ends that'll likely be pushed out (its at #8 now and with GTASA, HALO 2 and GT4, its not going to last). So it's not like they can sit on there existing market because its very clear that their market is shrinking while Sony and MS continue to expand their markets.
 

ge-man

Member
GamerDiva said:
But it is this losing of marketshare that is calling for Nintendo to finally have one clear vision and to stick to it.

I should put it another way--Nintendo should forget about trying to earn a specific position and concentrate on discovering who their audience truly is.
 

AirBrian

Member
Agent Dormer said:
That Red Sox comment ruined the entire article. If you're gonna reference that old curse, make sure to get the info right.
I realize that the Red Sox hadn't won in 80+ years, but isn't the curse itself only ~50 years old?
 

GamerDiva

Banned
ge-man said:
I should put it another way--Nintendo should forget about trying to earn a specific position and concentrate on discovering who their audience truly is.

I agree and in finally doing so their position might improve. :)
 
Other than the ideas to fix Nintendo, the one message I get from this is:

Nintendo can't be late to the next gen. They have historically come late, but that was riding on the high popularity of previous systems. SNES could be late because NES was dominant. N64 could be late because SNES had been dominant. Cube couldn't really affort to be late, and Nintendo is suffering as a result.

Being later to market gets Nintendo systems with cheaper bang-for-the-buck (and hence more profitable for them) but it's cost them marketshare every time. That says to me that they need to be launching with the Xbox or the PS3, whichever comes first.
 

Azih

Member
His point 4 "Americanizee!" is probably the most important one, I'd change it to be "STOP BEING SO FREAKING OBSESSED WITH JAPAN" myself. Nintendo's lifeblood is the million sellers they generate in a market, the N64 had that, the Gamecube doesn't.
 

binary

Member
ge-man said:
How? As someone said earlier, the most people that come into a market, the less space there is for each competitor. I think the most important point in the article is the idea that Nintendo needs to find a solid strategy and figure out who they are actually selling their games to. That is going to be the key for their from here on out--they should forget what is happening with their market share at the moment.

I think Nintendo already knows who they are selling their games to, but Nintendo realizes they aren't getting anywhere by selling only to them. That is why you see the Resident Evils and Eternal Darknesses. Nintendo is desperately seeking new people to buy its' products because the people they are used to selling their games to simply aren't buying from them anymore.
 
I think Nintendo is doing fine in most areas. 3rd party support is "good enough". My only complaint is they need to start making more first party mature franchises and stop putting Mario in everything.
 
Fix said:
This man is a business genius!

Actually, he's dead on, there.

Nintendo are so wrapped up in maximizing profit, that they deliver the cheapest hardware possible. Freakin' idiots. Microsoft lost money on the Xbox... But look at what it has: digital video out, digital audio out, a built in ethernet card, a hard drive. Nintendo has none of these things now, with their recent removal of the digital video out port on the 101 models. All because they saved a couple of dollars per unit. Screw them. I'm the freaking consumer; I want my investment to be worthwhile. They should be loading the Revolution down with all the features they could possibly fit in it.
 

GamerDiva

Banned
seismologist said:
My only complaint is they need to start making more first party mature franchises and stop putting Mario in everything.

Now that would really be something. Just imagine the shockwaves in the industry if Nintendo unveiled a new mature rated franchise at E3 for their next console. :)
 

lexi

Banned
Definitely Struggling, that's just classic. :lol

How many GBA's have been sold? Last solid figure I know of is 1.1 million for November. Man, I wish my salary was Kent's definition of obsolete.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Azih said:
Nintendo's mindshare is shrinking in all segments, and that includes the hardcore. Will RE4 and Zelda help a bit? sure, but it won't be sustained and if that's all the gamecube's got then the bounce will be completely lost by the time the next gen wars begin.

Plus merely 'retaining' marketshare isn't enough given their weak position.

The next gen begins late this year and early next. Zelda likely will be out only months before Revolution - if it's as good as expected, the "buzz" surrounding it among the hardcore will be relatively recent in mind by the time Rev hits.

I'm not talking about retaining marketshare, I'm talking about retaining mindshare (among the hardcore). Nintendo traditionally has a good (great!) reputation with the hardcore, and they need to defend/maintain that going into next generation - Zelda alone could do that if it proves worthy of its apparent heritage (TOoT).
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Error Macro said:
Nintendo are so wrapped up in maximizing profit, that they deliver the cheapest hardware possible. Freakin' idiots. Microsoft lost money on the Xbox... But look at what it has: digital video out, digital audio out, a built in ethernet card, a hard drive. Nintendo has none of these things now, with their recent removal of the digital video out port on the 101 models.

I don't think these were the reasons for GC failing to take a lead over Xbox. It's far more to do with software, image and marketing than any of that.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
I was most bothered by the fact that he compared Sega's software to Nintendo's (third party) software prospects. Nintendo is peerless (maybe EA) if they would become a third party company.
 

ge-man

Member
binary said:
I think Nintendo already knows who they are selling their games to, but Nintendo realizes they aren't getting anywhere by selling only to them. That is why you see the Resident Evils and Eternal Darknesses. Nintendo is desperately seeking new people to buy its' products because the people they are used to selling their games to simply aren't buying from them anymore.

I still don't think they know who they are selling to. They have no lock on the youth market, though I don't think Sony will ever admit to leading Nintendo in this area because they definately know who they are trying to appeal to. Interest from kids is a side effect of their general success.

Nintendo obvious doesn't have any lock on an older crowd either despite the fact that the GC gets most of the same 3rd party games and has a mature series (formerly) exclusive to them.

I think the Nintendo fan is a strange beast and I think the sooner they figure out why they seem to appeal to certain people, the more successful Nintendo will be in the long run in terms in attracting people who currently aren't gaming or are not totally satisfied with their other options.
 

GamerDiva

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
I was most bothered by the fact that he compared Sega's software to Nintendo's (third party) software prospects. Nintendo is peerless (maybe EA) if they would become a third party company.

I disagree. I thought Sega was better than Nintendo (software wise) when they had their Dreamcast machine but it seems like they lost their passion when they went third party. I feel supporting your own console brings the best out of you. Who's to say that the same thing won't happen to Nintendo, especially noting that Sony and MS will be throwing tons of cash around for their own exclusive Nintendo titles? :)
 

rastex

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
I was most bothered by the fact that he compared Sega's software to Nintendo's (third party) software prospects. Nintendo is peerless (maybe EA) if they would become a third party company.

SEGA fans said the same thing during the DC days.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Nintendo is notably more harsh than Microsoft or Sony in its handling
You have no fuckin' idea of how true is this. In today's market smaller publications are becoming more and more important to promote games, do you realize that TeamXbox was nothing but a (still) terrible fansite? Now is a part of IGN and has millions of readers. Both Sony and MS have courted fansites with free games, trips, exclusive material and some insights on certain titles, knowing that they are going to be more enthusiastic and much cheaper than the pros, heck Sony has built entire fansites to promote their games, they are THE MASTERS of viral marketing. Yet, Nintendo still embraces their hollier than you attitude, alienating not just fansites but small printed publications. Do you know how fucking stupid is to BUY Nintendo games to review them one month later because they won't send you jackshit while any other companies from the business are sending you free games and even relatively expensive hardware to test? They need to get off of their white horse, a large part of PlayStation's brand strenght came from independent magazines small websites and radio programs.

/small mag freelancer rant off
 

ge-man

Member
Error Macro said:
Actually, he's dead on, there.

Nintendo are so wrapped up in maximizing profit, that they deliver the cheapest hardware possible. Freakin' idiots. Microsoft lost money on the Xbox... But look at what it has: digital video out, digital audio out, a built in ethernet card, a hard drive. Nintendo has none of these things now, with their recent removal of the digital video out port on the 101 models. All because they saved a couple of dollars per unit. Screw them. I'm the freaking consumer; I want my investment to be worthwhile. They should be loading the Revolution down with all the features they could possibly fit in it.

Nintendo really was murdered by the software situation IMO. The biggest difference between the GC and the other consoles is that it has no Halo or GTA. Even the N64 had it's equivalent with Goldeneye.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Does someone want to suggest an objective way to determine Nintendo's relative quality versus other publishers? Gamerankings?

Historically I would say Nintendo is peerless, but in recent times the gap is probably narrower. But even in the last few years, between GC and GB, there have been many exceptional titles from them.

edit - Had a look at gamerankings - gee, what a waste. All those reviews and they can't offer such interesting statistics as average score by publisher etc.
 

Unison

Member
Nintendo's next system should be so spiky that it cuts you and you start bleeding when you pick it up. That would make the system cool, and then all the people concerned with maturity would buy it.
 

GamerDiva

Banned
Thanks for the great insight there Funky Papa. I really didn't know that before you posted about it. It seems like Nintendo is really old school huh?
 

ge-man

Member
Funky Papa said:
You have no fuckin' idea of how true is this. In today's market fansites are becoming more and more important to promote games, do you realize that TeamXbox was nothing but a (still) terrible fansite? Now is a part of IGN and has millions of readers. Both Sony and MS have courted fansites with free games, trips, exclusive material and some insights on certain titles, knowing that they are going to be more enthusiastic and much cheaper than the pros, heck Sony has built entire fansites to promote their games, they are THE MASTERS of viral marketing. Yet, Nintendo still embraces their hollier than you attitude, alienating not just fansites but small printed publications. Do you know how fucking stupid is to BUY Nintendo games to review them one month later because they won't send you jackshit while any other companies from the business are sending you free games and even relatively expensive hardware to test? They need to get off of their white horse, a large part of PlayStation's brand strenght came from independent magazines small websites and radio programs.

/small mag freelancer rant off

Agreed. IGNcube and similar sites are depresing places to visit most of the time. It's only when Nintendo finally decides to grace the media with new information on upcomming developments do these places perk up (think those new Zelda images back in November.) But most of the time these sites are a downer.

I also wish that Nintendo would either allow for more unoffical Nintendo mags or at least revamp Nintendo Power and start looking at demo discs as a neccesity and not as a treat to the fans.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Funky Papa said:
You have no fuckin' idea of how true is this. In today's market smaller publications are becoming more and more important to promote games, do you realize that TeamXbox was nothing but a (still) terrible fansite? Now is a part of IGN and has millions of readers. Both Sony and MS have courted fansites with free games, trips, exclusive material and some insights on certain titles, knowing that they are going to be more enthusiastic and much cheaper than the pros, heck Sony has built entire fansites to promote their games, they are THE MASTERS of viral marketing. Yet, Nintendo still embraces their hollier than you attitude, alienating not just fansites but small printed publications. Do you know how fucking stupid is to BUY Nintendo games to review them one month later because they won't send you jackshit while any other companies from the business are sending you free games and even relatively expensive hardware to test? They need to get off of their white horse, a large part of PlayStation's brand strenght came from independent magazines small websites and radio programs.

/small mag freelancer rant off

I know a lot of Nintendo fansites have also had run-ins with Nintendo lawyers, which doesn't help. They (their legal department at least) are clueless in this respect.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Funky Papa said:
You have no fuckin' idea of how true is this. In today's market smaller publications are becoming more and more important to promote games, do you realize that TeamXbox was nothing but a (still) terrible fansite? Now is a part of IGN and has millions of readers. Both Sony and MS have courted fansites with free games, trips, exclusive material and some insights on certain titles, knowing that they are going to be more enthusiastic and much cheaper than the pros, heck Sony has built entire fansites to promote their games, they are THE MASTERS of viral marketing. Yet, Nintendo still embraces their hollier than you attitude, alienating not just fansites but small printed publications. Do you know how fucking stupid is to BUY Nintendo games to review them one month later because they won't send you jackshit while any other companies from the business are sending you free games and even relatively expensive hardware to test? They need to get off of their white horse, a large part of PlayStation's brand strenght came from independent magazines small websites and radio programs.

/small mag freelancer rant off
You nailed it. I still remember the day our local TV games channel (Game One) was showing Majora's Mask, and they guy was explaining that they had the beta game CHAINED to a N64, and they would have both console and game only for 24 hours. And that was one week before the game would be released in France, a game that was already available in the US and Japan since some time.
It's been getting a bit better this generation, but I know that at least some time ago Gamekult (2nd biggest french gaming site and best content wise) still did not have a beta gamecube so they could do previews.
 

GamerDiva

Banned
Blimblim said:
I still remember the day our local TV games channel (Game One) was showing Majora's Mask, and they guy was explaining that they had the beta game CHAINED to a N64, and they would have both console and game only for 24 hours.

:lol :lol :lol
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
The GBA is obsolete? I'm sorry, but you can't just say something that definitive and back it up with NOTHING, as the present sales would certainly disagree. The PSP is no doubt going to be great, but I don't think it's quite the dramatic Nintendo back-breaker Kent's clearly making it out to be, especially since you're basically going to have to murder a Gamestop clerk to obtain one initially.
 

lexi

Banned
gofreak said:
edit - Had a look at gamerankings - gee, what a waste. All those reviews and they can't offer such interesting statistics as average score by publisher etc.
There needs to be an IMDB-esque resource for games, the IMDB database is awesometacular.

Heh, if Steve posted here the mods would ban him for picking on Nintendo, and then he'd get a tag.
:lol
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Random_Hajile said:
“On the console side, it’s harder to imagine where Nintendo fits in
now than it was 12 months ago,” says Taylor.
When asked, the clerk at a GameStop store in Hawaii said that his store
had sold out of PlayStation 2 and Xbox. “We still have GameCubes in
stock.”



Here's my favorite part. He polled a GAMESTOP CLERK in HAWAII (wtf!) about how Xbox and PS2 sales were. He doesn't mention the shortage of PS2's or Xbox's at all.

I think I am going to the Blockbuster in Myrtle Beach and ask people about PS2 sales.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Being fair I'm not being objective, I am just a former Nintendo fan and it hurts me to see how they are still embracing their wrong attitudes. I don't manage GC stuff, but it's shocking to see how your friends are still waiting for Nintendo's response while other companies are sending discs and fresh media on regular basis.

A large part of PlayStation's brand was built thanks to music gigs, trendy magazines, small outlets and hip publications, kinda like the iPod but years before. Nintendo needs to wake up, 80's marketing won't cut it anymore.
 

Odnetnin

Banned
Funky Papa said:
You have no fuckin' idea of how true is this. In today's market smaller publications are becoming more and more important to promote games, do you realize that TeamXbox was nothing but a (still) terrible fansite? Now is a part of IGN and has millions of readers. Both Sony and MS have courted fansites with free games, trips, exclusive material and some insights on certain titles, knowing that they are going to be more enthusiastic and much cheaper than the pros, heck Sony has built entire fansites to promote their games, they are THE MASTERS of viral marketing. Yet, Nintendo still embraces their hollier than you attitude, alienating not just fansites but small printed publications. Do you know how fucking stupid is to BUY Nintendo games to review them one month later because they won't send you jackshit while any other companies from the business are sending you free games and even relatively expensive hardware to test? They need to get off of their white horse, a large part of PlayStation's brand strenght came from independent magazines small websites and radio programs.

/small mag freelancer rant off

cry me a river. "I don't get my freebies + stuff to line my pockets." If you stopped at the statement regarding courting fans + mainstream.

+

seriously who reads small publication? - XBN and GMR had to close as did countless others. Its crap like EGM + GI that sells. I thnk you might have overvalued your "opinions" with regards to the whole "my review opinion counts." Plus Teamxbox grew to its size because the userbase is rabid and that website was extremely polished. Non of the cube sites are comparable with (a similar loaded front end + great forum)

Nintendo killed nintendo with its kiddy design + output in parts. Nintendo is not cool and it will be interesting to see its fortunes next gen. Nintendo is currently killing the mario franchise. We shall see how bad it gets.


mumu said:
I stopped reading here. Someone should lock the thread, it's not gonna be nice.

IAWTP. And can someone refresh me who Steve Kent is? Is he from EA? I think he is anyhow.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Odnetnin said:
cry me a river. "I don't get my freebies + stuff to line my pockets." If you stopped at the statement regarding courting fans + mainstream.
ROTFLMAO :lol

I'm getting more games per month than many people on a entire year, way more than I can play. And as I said, I don't do Nintendo stuff.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
GamerDiva said:
I disagree. I thought Sega was better than Nintendo (software wise) when they had their Dreamcast machine but it seems like they lost their passion when they went third party. I feel supporting your own console brings the best out of you. Who's to say that the same thing won't happen to Nintendo, especially noting that Sony and MS will be throwing tons of cash around for their own exclusive Nintendo titles? :)


/me points to the "million unit sellers thread" posted today. Sega has nothing on Nintendo in terms of franchises.
 

GamerDiva

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
/me points to the "million unit sellers thread" posted today. Sega has nothing on Nintendo in terms of franchises.

That wasn't my point nor does selling a million copies mean a game is good or that I'd like it.
During my Dreamcast days, IMO, Sega was making better games than Nintendo was. :)
 

AniHawk

Member
GamerDiva said:
That wasn't my point nor does selling a million copies mean a game is good or that I'd like it.
During my Dreamcast days, IMO, Sega was making better games than Nintendo was. :)

Let's just say both had some fucking awesome games from 1998-2001.
 

ge-man

Member
lockii said:
Thanks for the link, actually looks to be a decent book, I may buy later on today. One question though, io the product description, there's mention of 'The videogame that saved Nintendo from bankruptcy' - What was that game?

Donkey Kong perhaps?
 

Timbuktu

Member
I don't think Nintendo should or could out-GTA GTA. 'Americanizing' and following the trends now is a bit too late, there is no way of anticipating when the market would change. What is happening in Japan may happen in the west. I agree about diversifying and creating a parallel brand like 'Miramax' for Disney, but I think Nintendo has been trying and was just unlucky this gen with second-parties: Rare turning into a useless parasite that has to be thrown off and troubles with Retro. If Retro delivered all that Nintendo hoped and Rare was still at their N64 level, the picture would be very different now, especially if titles like Metroid Prime and RE4 were delivered earlier.

So, with Retro now in order and better third-parties relations, i think Nintendo has to take matters into its own hands and just work really hard to create the Next Big Thing. The Next Big Thing, first of all has to be 'New'. Secondly, it has to be 'Big' (the most difficult thing). But thirdly, it also has to be a 'Thing' which means it has to be imitable, it must have followers, it must spark a trend, which is why the DS, great though it is, will never be a 'big thing' since it won't have followers.

They've done it a few time before with the NES, the Game Boy and then the Pokemon. Three hits from a company is pretty good. The only way to make Nintendo 'cool' is to make the GTA and EA culture uncool, to make them a thing of the past. The iPod, the has done that to Sony and displaced the Walkman. I agree with the article that it needs to deliver with the Revolution, but it should not imitate. Lets take the PC market for example, when the bubble bursted only two companies made profits, Dell and Apple. Apple could not out-Dell Dell, but it still has its market and its way to do things. Apple's been proclaimed 'dead' so many time, but Jobs said they would 'innovate' their way out of the downturn, look where they're now. It'd be a miracle if Nintendo actually delivers the next big thing, and i wouldn't hold my breath, but if they 'Americanise' too much they'll just be an alsoran. The only thing they absolutely HAVE to do is to get a much much better marketing dep and a brilliant ad agency on their side.
 
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