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[AniHawk]

Thanks for the link, actually looks to be a decent book, I may buy later on today. One question though, io the product description, there's mention of 'The videogame that saved Nintendo from bankruptcy' - What was that game?

Donkey Kong.

Pick up Kent's book and/or Game Over. Both are very good reads, and both go into detail of Donkey Kong's and Tetris's history (though Game Over much moreso- Kent's book focuses a lot on Atari and the early days more than Nintendo/Sega/Sony).

 

[Scrow]

2. Forget the bottom line.

This man is a business genius!

i was thinking the same thing... seriously, wtf?

 

[human5892]

Ugh. Somebody has stolen Steven Kent and replaced him with a robot from the IGN boards.

Not to mention the fact that the article is positively rife with misinformation.

 

[Culex]

Thanks for the link, actually looks to be a decent book, I may buy later on today. One question though, in the product description, there's mention of 'The videogame that saved Nintendo from bankruptcy' - What was that game?

Pokemon.

 

[GamerDiva]

Let's just say both had some fucking awesome games from 1998-2001.

I agree AniHawk but I think he missed my point. If Nintendo went third party I think their games would also slip because their passion wouldn't quite be the same without their own console to support. It'd be quite hard for this not to happen when Sony and MS would be fighting for your franchises and throwing large amounts of $$$ your way.

 

[AniHawk]

I don't think Nintendo should or could out-GTA GTA. 'Americanizing' and following the trends now is a bit too late, there is no way of anticipating when the market would change. What is happening in Japan may happen in the west. I agree about diversifying and creating a parallel brand like 'Miramax' for Disney, but I think Nintendo has been trying and was just unlucky this gen with second-parties: Rare turning into a useless parasite that has to be thrown off and troubles with Retro. If Retro delivered all that Nintendo hoped and Rare was still at their N64 level, the picture would be very different now, especially if titles like Metroid Prime and RE4 were delivered earlier.

So, with Retro now in order and better third-parties relations, i think Nintendo has to take matters into its own hands and just work really hard to create the Next Big Thing. The Next Big Thing, first of all has to be 'New'. Secondly, it has to be 'Big' (the most difficult thing). But thirdly, it also has to be a 'Thing' which means it has to be imitable, it must have followers, it must spark a trend, which is why the DS, great though it is, will never be a 'big thing' since it won't have followers.

They've done it a few time before with the NES, the Game Boy and then the Pokemon. Three hits from a company is pretty good. The only way to make Nintendo 'cool' is to make the GTA and EA culture uncool, to make them a thing of the past. The iPod, the has done that to Sony and displaced the Walkman. I agree with the article that it needs to deliver with the Revolution, but it should not imitate. Lets take the PC market for example, when the bubble bursted only two companies made profits, Dell and Apple. Apple could not out-Dell Dell, but it still has its market and its way to do things. Apple's been proclaimed 'dead' so many time, but Jobs said they would 'innovate' their way out of the downturn, look where they're now. It'd be a miracle if Nintendo actually delivers the next big thing, and i wouldn't hold my breath, but if they 'Americanise' too much they'll just be an alsoran. The only thing they absolutely HAVE to do is to get a much much better marketing dep and a brilliant ad agency on their side.

Great post.

 

[fse]

I disagree. I thought Sega was better than Nintendo (software wise) when they had their Dreamcast machine but it seems like they lost their passion when they went third party. I feel supporting your own console brings the best out of you. Who's to say that the same thing won't happen to Nintendo, especially noting that Sony and MS will be throwing tons of cash around for their own exclusive Nintendo titles?

Sega had different types of "mature" like games yes. They were great, if not better than nintendo in marketing if you think about it.

 

[DrLazy]

You guys are misquoting Kent with stuff like "the gameboy advance is obsolete." Read the article, he back up his arguments. Its another great article, if a tad negative. Kent does say Nintendo is courting third parties, but he's right to say that now its a little late because the market isn't there.

 

[AniHawk]

I agree AniHawk but I think he missed my point. If Nintendo went third party I think their games would also slip because their passion wouldn't quite be the same without their own console to support. It'd be quite hard for this not to happen when Sony and MS would be fighting for your franchises and throwing large amounts of $$$ your way.

Actually, the reason Nintendo's games would slip would be because they'd have to "restructure," meaning firing many people in order to keep high profits. Then they'd have to rely on franchises even more, leaving less room to create new stuff. I think this is what happened to Sega, despite that company being in debt for (probably) over a decade before pulling the plug. Not sure if it really has anything to do with a lack of passion, just a lack of talent.

 

[GamerDiva]

Actually, the reason Nintendo's games would slip would be because they'd have to "restructure," meaning firing many people in order to keep high profits. Then they'd have to rely on franchises even more, leaving less room to create new stuff. I think this is what happened to Sega, despite that company being in debt for (probably) over a decade before pulling the plug. Not sure if it really has anything to do with a lack of passion, just a lack of talent.

I also thought about what you said too but I think it's both a little less passion and less talent combined.

 

[Amir0x]

Screw the haters.

If Nintendo finishes strong this generation, then consumer's will be looking forward to Nintendo's new console or at least show some interest in it. What Nintendo does after that is up to them, but the company isn't one to repeat big mistakes. The video game industry has to battle the cruel "What have you done for me lately" mentality from its consumers -- Sega is no longer in the hardware business and are virtually absent in the software one; gaming companies have to consolidate their resources and be compelled to merge with bigger companies to survive. No gaming company is immune from this attitude, and so if Nintendo just ends this generation on a solid note and keep the momentum into the next generation, they should be fine. It's that simple.

Wow. I mean, really... wow. Never has a nickname been more appropriate. Or is this a joke post? Sarcasm? I honestly can't tell.

So I'll walk the ground carefully and say: No, it's not "that simple" and no even if Nintendo has a great 2005 in terms of quality releases that will not be what gives them momentum coming into their next generation.

I think Nintendo is doing fine in most areas. 3rd party support is "good enough". My only complaint is they need to start making more first party mature franchises and stop putting Mario in everything.

Again, I never know if I should take any of your posts seriously... but no, Nintendo's 3rd party support is not "good enough." Not even close. Not even approaching close to good enough. This is Nintendo's downfall and until they fix it they'll always be shot in the leg.

 

[Fantasmo]

DIE, DIE, DIE!

Ya know, some of you really need to get some perspective. Nothing is ever pure good or evil, white or black, etc.

Americanize, americanize, americanize simply means "get off your stubborn, greedy, lazy asses and cater to your biggest market before you go under."

Nobody said Nintendo needs to kill Japanese influence, culture, or games. If America has become the biggest market then the goal should be to tip the balances more towards said market. Make the same stuff and add american games on top of it! Just because The Guy Game and Britney's Dance Beat come out doesn't mean you have to buy them. It really shouldn't take a business degree to understand that.

A few minor quibbles but otherwise a brilliant article. GG Steve.

 

[SantaC]

I agree AniHawk but I think he missed my point. If Nintendo went third party I think their games would also slip because their passion wouldn't quite be the same without their own console to support. It'd be quite hard for this not to happen when Sony and MS would be fighting for your franchises and throwing large amounts of $$$ your way.

Nintendo's passion would definitley not be the same if they developed for Sony and MS. Nintendo is a proud company. (too much for their own good sometimes)

 

[GamerDiva]

Nintendo's passion would definitley not be the same if they developed for Sony and MS. Nintendo is a proud company. (too much for their own good sometimes)

Exactly.

 

[Funky Papa]

Nintendo's passion would definitley not be the same if they developed for Sony and MS. Nintendo is a proud company. (too much for their own good sometimes)

I agree. Nintendo should to think about what Sony and MS are doing well and how they can match them and then, reinvent themselves without wasting their rich propierties (IMHO)

Nintendo needs to stay where it belongs, a world of Gran Turismos, Solid Snakes and Master Chiefs is not enough. Variety is cool and Nintendo provides a healthy amount of it.

 

[vitaflo]

You nailed it. I still remember the day our local TV games channel (Game One) was showing Majora's Mask, and they guy was explaining that they had the beta game CHAINED to a N64, and they would have both console and game only for 24 hours. And that was one week before the game would be released in France, a game that was already available in the US and Japan since some time.

They weren't always that way. When I was writing in the early 90's we received an SNES with its launch games five weeks before it came out in the US for review, and never had to return anything. In fact, Nintendo was one of the best when it came to getting review copies during the 16-bit gen. Something must have happened since then (I left the field in '95). If true, that's quite sad.

 

[SantaC]

I agree. Nintendo should to think about what Sony and MS are doing well and how they can match them and then, reinvent themselves without wasting their rich propierties (IMHO)

Nintendo needs to stay where it belongs, a world of Gran Turismos, Solid Snakes and Master Chiefs is not enough. Variety is cool and Nintendo provides a healthy amount of it.

I agree. Nintendo's different approach and games brings variation to the market.

 

[DJ Demon J]

Granted, Nintendo has not released anything as notorious 32X, though Virtual Boy came close. On the other hand, with Game Boy Advance SP
(Nintendo of America plans to discontinue the original GBA) and DS
running side-by-side, the company does have two systems confusing
consumers, eating resources, and distracting management.

About fucking time someone in the press writes that...

Along this same line, Nintendo needs to acknowledge the competition.
Nintendo executives say that DS and PSP were made for different
audiences. The truth is that when customers walk into Wall-Mart or
GameStop with $200, they are going to compare DS and PSP and choose one
over the other.

Self-explanatory really, but highlighted because people need to get it through their heads.

And these annual shortages… what’s with that? Nintendo has a
shortage of DS units. Do they think that is chic? They had similar
shortages after the launches of GameCube, N64, and Super NES. You would
learn how to manage inventory by now.
There is no logical reason for Nintendo to waste this window of time
before the launch of PSP. Yet here we are. With PSP supposedly
launching in three months, Nintendo is excitedly telling the press how
they cannot keep up with demand for DS.
Why in the world are GameStop and Electronics Boutique stores, arguably
the most influential chains in gaming, only receiving six DS units per
week? They should be saturated with DS systems.
The Nintendo of old, the one that sold approximately 100 million NESs,
simply tried harder. In the early days, NCL president Hiroshi Yamauchi
personally courted third-party publishers. Nintendo of America
president Minoru Arakawa met with store owners in New York and promised
to buy back unsold merchandise and helped set up a few store displays.
In order to regain market share, Nintendo needs to return to its former
Avis mentality. It needs to try harder.

Lots of gems here. Nintendo has lost its old competitiveness (the N64 era was the beginning of the "new Nintendo" IMHO). Iwata is not an ideal successor for the man, the myth, the legend that is Hiroshi Yamauchi, IMHO. In the end, Nintendo needs to try harder, but only if it truly is serious about making a play for #1 again.....at this point, they are in the very unenviable position of 3rd place in the most important video game market in the world (yes, don't kid yourself thinking that Japan is the most important market---the US demand and sales of games far outpaces Japan, and more and more, Western tastes and culture are reflecting game design) as well as having to defend their portable monopoly from the biggest threat it's ever faced since GameBoy was released. All in the span of few years' time. Nintendo certainly doesn't need to be #1 to be profitable, they've proven that. But they've always had GameBoy to rely on for easy money. If PSP provides a strong challenge and takes a big chunk out of Nintendo's handheld market (thus taking away potential new sales of existing/future Nintendo handheld products), will Nintendo still be able to "go through the motions" of console competition and be a profitable company? Which leads nicely into Steve's next point.

2. Forget the bottom line.

In 1990, Nintendo and the NES owned 93 percent of the U.S. console
business. In 1994, the hottest year for 16-bit, the Super NES commanded
approximately 48 percent of the U.S. market and ruled in Japan. By the
end of the N64 generation, Nintendo was down to 33 percent of the
American console market. With GameCube, Nintendo is down to
approximately 15 percent.
That is a nearly steady drop of 50 percent from one generation to the
next.
The typical Nintendo response to this is something along the line of
their console business always remaining profitable. It’s a good and
persuasive response. Even as Sony strangled Nintendo in all three world
markets in the last year of the original PlayStation, Nintendo managed
to make money with N64 while Sony leaked like a sieve.
The problem is that if Nintendo’s share of the market keeps getting
smaller, the next generation will not be profitable.

And there it is....obviously Nintendo has a core base of users to sell to...but it doesn't have the mass appeal it used to, and that is what this console war is all about. A console will not make it unless it reaches that audience.

3. Know your market and stick to it.
Others say that Nintendo can indeed change its stripes. “Look at
Cadillac,” says Taylor. “It used to be the car your grandfather
drove in the suburbs. Now, with its change of image, Cadillac is the
high-prestige car for urban drivers.”

I think it's possible for Nintendo to make over their image (and not in the desperate, we're-different-from-Sony-and-MS-but-we're-still-hardcore-and-cool lameass TV ads way) the right way. Sony's executive/marketing staff understood the direction that gaming was headed and what they needed to do to get it there. Nintendo, much like, the music business, was too focused on keeping its current revenue model than with exploring new markets. It's obvious to anyone that Nintendo has sacrificed marketshare for profitability. But will that end up being a costly mistake?

4. Americanize, Americanize, Americanize

The bottom has dropped out of the Japanese video game market. It
shrank by one-third in 2001 alone. Japan, which bought the least
hardware and the most software in the past, was the most profitable
market in games. Now that the drop has occurred, North American is the
most lucrative market.
Only one Japanese company made it into the U.S. market’s top 10 games
of 2003—Nintendo. Nintendo had four games in the top 10—two of
which were “Pokemon.”
“Cute,” “Fluffy,” and “Funny,” words that describe so many
of the best Japanese games, just don’t appeal the way they used to.
American audiences are into speed, action, violence. Americans like 3D
adventures and first-person shooters. These are not big genres in
Japan. Sports, other than soccer, are huge in the United States.
Sports, other than soccer, do not sell well in Japan.
Nintendo has one shooter—“Metroid Prime.” The company has
abandoned sports.
“Nintendo needs to develop a Western-centric development network,”
says Taylor, and he is right. The problem is that with the admirable
exception of Retro Studios, Nintendo seems content letting second-party
partners like Rare and Silicon Knights slip away.

Again, this goes back to my comments on Step 1. I kinda disagree on his comment on Rare though, their GoldenEye success went to their head. Conker was (and still is) lame (the XBL game looks like crap IMHO), Rare's other Xbox games are worthless. I think it was a good idea for Nintendo to dump Rare. Silicon Knights OTOH, that was less-than-brilliant.

5. Keep doing what you do right

As angry and pessimistic as some gamers have become about Nintendo,
other insiders believe that Nintendo is doing many things exactly
right. “Nintendo is listening to a good mixture of customers and game
developers,” says Richard Doherty, research director of
Envisioneering.
Had Nintendo read the reviewers and bulletin boards, the Pokemon series
might have died two or three years ago. It didn’t, and Pokemon
“Ruby” and “Sapphire” both made it on to the NPD Group’s list
of the top 10 selling games of 2003. “Fire Red” and “Leaf
Green” are among the top sellers of 2004.
Many reviewers complained about the cel-shaded look of the new
“Zelda” game right up until the release of “Wind Waker.” Then
they proclaimed it. Now Nintendo is effectively breaking the
“Zelda” franchise into two separate lines with the ‘adult Link’
in games with more realistic graphics and the ‘young Link’ remaining
in cartoon-like cel-shading.
Despite all of the criticisms, Nintendo still manages to do many things
better than any other company in the business.

While I still believe Wind Waker was strongly carried on nostalgia/Nintendo brand loyalty, and not because it was GOTY material, it is that same brand loyalty that will make me buy the new mature Zelda (and my first GameCube) when it launches this year. Despite the many things it does do wrong, Nintendo still has a knack for milking a trend (every kids show since Pokemon came out owes Nintendo royalties for mimicking its style) and keeping an audience (although I know that I am not the only one that bought an N64 but not a GCN). Their main problem is reaching a new audience and reconnecting with those disenfranchised with their image/games in their past two generations' Quest for the Holy Profitability.

7. Either do Revolution right or don’t do Revolution at all

In the end, Nintendo is going to need to make a stand. Executives at
both Sony and Microsoft have made comments about Nintendo owning the
handheld market. Now Sony has invaded that space. Microsoft may still
follow.
Nintendo should make its stand with Revolution. To do this, Nintendo
needs to do a lot of things right from the start.

First, it’s time for Nintendo to discover the Internet. In Kyoto,
just like the rest of the world, people access to the Internet and for
more than a game of “Phantasy Star Online.” Nintendo executives
admit that not adding DVD capability to GameCube hurt them, it’s time to
make the same admission with the Internet. People may not use Xbox
Live, but they want the option.

Next, it’s time for Nintendo executives to listen to what their
customers tell them. People like pretty graphics. People want the same
games with better graphics. Nintendo executives say they want
Revolution to be as revolutionary as DS. Fine, but make sure the
graphics are hugely improved.

Not everyone agrees with this. Richard Doherty compliments Nintendo
for not trying to “create a super computer in a $300 game box.”
This, he says, is what will separate Nintendo from Microsoft and Sony.
But if Microsoft and Sony are successful, that separation may not be
good.

The truth is that if good old “Madden NFL” looks better and plays
better on PlayStation 3 and NextBox, Maddeneers are going to buy those
systems. And, for the record, “Madden NFL 2004” was the best
selling game of 2003.

Finally Nintendo needs to have enough hardware at launch. Avoid
shortages—real or trumped up—and fill the channel.

Nintendo can still recapture much its former glory, even in this
competitive marketplace. If the Red Socks can break their 50-year
curse, Nintendo can break out. What Nintendo cannot do is continue to
make the same old mistakes and survive.

Basically, if Nintendo is serious about recapturing marketshare it needs to abandon its current half-assed efforts and PR spin (and I'm talking about more than just your average company PR spin). I'd like to see Nintendo games be as good as they were in past generations, as well as see the new franchise creations they're capable of with an adult in mind. Like it or not, gaming has matured, and while there is definitely a need for games that appeal to a younger audience, the far larger audience is now adults over the age of 18. Gaming is not simply arcadey platformers or action RPG-lite games. It is online, it's community, it's big-budget blockbusters with cult fan favorites. Nintendo needs to commit to filling as many of the holes in its approach as it can....especially considering it's about to enter into all out war in the handheld space. All in all, it would be a shock to see Nintendo end up 3rd party (although I'd still like to see it, as it means we would be one step closer to a 1 console world--which is where many in the industry see things headed), as they do have plenty of money to throw around, and much like Microsoft, if backed into a corner they could buy marketshare with that money. The next generation will be fun to watch, to say the least.

 

[GameCat]

Well one thing he got right was that Nintendo need to be much more consistent in their marketing. Having sexed up "touching is good" ads for the DS in the states and that series of "the next best thing to do in the dark" for the SP at the same time as you're launching mario games like never before and chat programs for pre-teens just doesn't work. They need to find an angle and stick with it, not flip flop between "games for everyone" and adult and sexy all the time.

 

[human5892]

Good post, DJ.

 

[AniHawk]

Good post, DJ.

Agreed, though I disagree about a 1 console world being good for the industry overall.

 

[SantaC]

About fucking time someone in the press writes that...



Self-explanatory really, but highlighted because people need to get it through their heads.




Lots of gems here. Nintendo has lost its old competitiveness (the N64 era was the beginning of the "new Nintendo" IMHO). Iwata is not an ideal successor for the man, the myth, the legend that is Hiroshi Yamauchi, IMHO. In the end, Nintendo needs to try harder, but only if it truly is serious about making a play for #1 again.....at this point, they are in the very unenviable position of 3rd place in the most important video game market in the world (yes, don't kid yourself thinking that Japan is the most important market---the US demand and sales of games far outpaces Japan, and more and more, Western tastes and culture are reflecting game design) as well as having to defend their portable monopoly from the biggest threat it's ever faced since GameBoy was released. All in the span of few years' time. Nintendo certainly doesn't need to be #1 to be profitable, they've proven that. But they've always had GameBoy to rely on for easy money. If PSP provides a strong challenge and takes a big chunk out of Nintendo's handheld market (thus taking away potential new sales of existing/future Nintendo handheld products), will Nintendo still be able to "go through the motions" of console competition and be a profitable company? Which leads nicely into Steve's next point.



And there it is....obviously Nintendo has a core base of users to sell to...but it doesn't have the mass appeal it used to, and that is what this console war is all about. A console will not make it unless it reaches that audience.



I think it's possible for Nintendo to make over their image (and not in the desperate, we're-different-from-Sony-and-MS-but-we're-still-hardcore-and-cool lameass TV ads way) the right way. Sony's executive/marketing staff understood the direction that gaming was headed and what they needed to do to get it there. Nintendo, much like, the music business, was too focused on keeping its current revenue model than with exploring new markets. It's obvious to anyone that Nintendo has sacrificed marketshare for profitability. But will that end up being a costly mistake?



Again, this goes back to my comments on Step 1. I kinda disagree on his comment on Rare though, their GoldenEye success went to their head. Conker was (and still is) lame (the XBL game looks like crap IMHO), Rare's other Xbox games are worthless. I think it was a good idea for Nintendo to dump Rare. Silicon Knights OTOH, that was less-than-brilliant.



While I still believe Wind Waker was strongly carried on nostalgia/Nintendo brand loyalty, and not because it was GOTY material, it is that same brand loyalty that will make me buy the new mature Zelda (and my first GameCube) when it launches this year. Despite the many things it does do wrong, Nintendo still has a knack for milking a trend (every kids show since Pokemon came out owes Nintendo royalties for mimicking its style) and keeping an audience (although I know that I am not the only one that bought an N64 but not a GCN). Their main problem is reaching a new audience and reconnecting with those disenfranchised with their image/games in their past two generations' Quest for the Holy Profitability.



Basically, if Nintendo is serious about recapturing marketshare it needs to abandon its current half-assed efforts and PR spin (and I'm talking about more than just your average company PR spin). I'd like to see Nintendo games be as good as they were in past generations, as well as see the new franchise creations they're capable of with an adult in mind. Like it or not, gaming has matured, and while there is definitely a need for games that appeal to a younger audience, the far larger audience is now adults over the age of 18. Gaming is not simply arcadey platformers or action RPG-lite games. It is online, it's community, it's big-budget blockbusters with cult fan favorites. Nintendo needs to commit to filling as many of the holes in its approach as it can....especially considering it's about to enter into all out war in the handheld space. All in all, it would be a shock to see Nintendo end up 3rd party (although I'd still like to see it, as it means we would be one step closer to a 1 console world--which is where many in the industry see things headed), as they do have plenty of money to throw around, and much like Microsoft, if backed into a corner they could buy marketshare with that money. The next generation will be fun to watch, to say the least.

Yes that's a good post.

However, one thing that many forgets is that Nintendo has made some good decisions when it comes to localization latley.

Nintendo needs to start lauching their big games in America before Japan. The DS is a succes so far in America, and it was a good move to launch it even ahead of Japan.

I want Nintendo to do the same with Zelda. The americans buy zelda more than the japanese do. A game out in USA before Japan creates a little more excitement. We can take the NDS as an example, but also Resident Evil 4.

When Nintendo launched Zelda OoT WORLDWIDE it was massive. I don't know what happend after that.

 

[Drinky Crow]

The Nintendo Strategy (tm) can work as long as they keep their 3-4M hardcore fanbase. They're still coasting after the NES/SNES era, and they'll always be able to move 10M or so units -- 3-4M initially to the hardcore fans, and then another 6M or so over the next three to four years to other hardcore gamers, franchise fans, undiscriminating buyers (parents), and cheapasses who'll snag the system at a discount.

I expect Gamecube-esque performance from the DS and the Revolution -- consistent with, not less than. They still have powerful franchise pull among the hardcore set, and the old world Nintendo fans that could stray have already largely done so with the Gamecube. They can keep plugging along in 3rd place stasis up until the point that their game quality completely suffers and alienates gamers altogether. Quality has declined with the Cube, but I don't see it getting much lower -- and Nintendo "low" is still better than, say, EA "average".

 

[human5892]

Agreed, though I disagree about a 1 console world being good for the industry overall.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the one console issue with respect to the industry...I think my judgement is constantly clouded by the fact that I would like it that way.

 

[bigNman]

Americanize, americanize, americanize

This would also have a side effect of Europeanize, Europeanize, Europeanize. Which would boost Nintendo's image and sales a LOT. They need to focus on America and Europe from now on. The combined market dwarfs Japan.

 

[GamerDiva]

Good post, DJ.

Yes it was and this confuses me:

DJ Demon J
If YOU see ME talk negatively about Nintendo, PM Mike Works with a link to my post, and you'll get a free tag of your choice!

:lol

 

[SantaC]

Yes it was and this confuses me:

DJ Demon J
If YOU see ME talk negatively about Nintendo, PM Mike Works with a link to my post, and you'll get a free tag of your choice!

:lol

He's improved if you can say so.

 

[AniHawk]

I want Nintendo to do the same with Zelda. The americans buy zelda more than the japanese do.

Yes, please.

DJ Demon J
If YOU see ME talk negatively about Nintendo, PM Mike Works with a link to my post, and you'll get a free tag of your choice!

It's something that Mike Works placed a couple months back after DJ had a counter ticking down the times he trolled Nintendo.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the one console issue with respect to the industry...I think my judgement is constantly clouded by the fact that I would like it that way.

Well, just ignoring the whole "lack of competition/creativity" argument, just imagine what would happen- how many companies would be forced to close, or swallowed up and forgotten for a one console world.

 

[GamerDiva]

Do you guys think if the PSP takes off and so does the DS that people will forget about the next GBA? Or do you think that the GBA name is so big that it will still sell regardless? Or even still, do you guys think that there might not ever be another GBA and that Nintendo is just blowing smoke? That they are hoping the DS takes off and essentially becomes their GBA2?

 

[human5892]

He's improved if you can say so.

Yeah, he really has. DJ is one of the few people on this forum (or any forum) who responded to the mods' "construtive criticism" positively (though not without some understanable resistance) and emerged a better poster because of it. Although many of his posts used to irritate me in the past, I now find him quite pleasant to listen to.

 

[Error Macro]

I don't think these were the reasons for GC failing to take a lead over Xbox. It's far more to do with software, image and marketing than any of that.

Oh, for sure, but the hardware is a big part of it. I didn't convey this earlier, but the hardware directly has to do with image. Yeah, the Xbox is a behemoth, but people felt like they were getting something with their money. And it was black. Nintendo comes out with a purple lunchbox of a console. It's distinctly Japanese. American doens't want that shit. They want big, bold, black. But hey, I stood in line for hours on launch day so I could get a Game Cube. And I picked Indigo over Jet black because I liked it better. But I don't represent the mainstream.

 

[DJ Demon J]

The Nintendo Strategy (tm) can work as long as they keep their 3-4M hardcore fanbase. They're still coasting after the NES/SNES era, and they'll always be able to move 10M or so units -- 3-4M initially to the hardcore fans, and then another 6M or so over the next three to four years to other hardcore gamers, franchise fans, undiscriminating buyers (parents), and cheapasses who'll snag the system at a discount.

I expect Gamecube-esque performance from the DS and the Revolution -- consistent with, not less than. They still have powerful franchise pull among the hardcore set, and the old world Nintendo fans that could stray have already largely done so with the Gamecube. They can keep plugging along in 3rd place stasis up until the point that their game quality completely suffers and alienates gamers altogether. Quality has declined with the Cube, but I don't see it getting much lower -- and Nintendo "low" is still better than, say, EA "average".

While I don't agree with "Nintendo 'low'" being better than "EA 'average'" (Burnout 3: Takedown blows away anything released on GCN this year IMHO), I pretty much agree with your projections of the kinds of unit sales Nintendo can still muster if they harness that extreme loyalty they have. The only question is, with yet another generation of expensive video game hardware on the way, will consumers (even the hardcore fans of Nintendo games) really want to split their discretionary spending 3 ways again? Nintendo seems ripe for a fall unless they make a change now and launch Revolution the right way.

 

[SantaC]

Yes, please.

Zelda 3 months later in America than Japan is borderline but still acceptable. Not more than so is though. (like zelda mm) I wish Nintendo would come to their senses to this and go back to OoT release mentality. But it's also up to NOA and their localization team I guess. If there is voiceacting, expect it 4-6 months later. I can live without VA.

 

[human5892]

Do you guys think if the PSP takes off and so does the DS that people will forget about the next GBA? Or do you think that the GBA name is so big that it will still sell regardless? Or even still, do you guys think that there might not ever be another GBA and that Nintendo is just blowing smoke? That they are hoping the DS takes off and essentially becomes their GBA2?

I think if the DS succeeds, you will see some of its features incorporated into the GBA2 (touch screen, for example). The GBA2 is definitely coming, though -- make no mistake.

 

[Funky Papa]

Do you guys think if the PSP takes off and so does the DS that people will forget about the next GBA?

I somewhat think that nintendo is pulling a HUGE 32X on us with the NDS if they are really thinking about launching a GBA2 in less than two years.

 

[AniHawk]

Do you guys think if the PSP takes off and so does the DS that people will forget about the next GBA? Or do you think that the GBA name is so big that it will still sell regardless? Or even still, do you guys think that there might not ever be another GBA and that Nintendo is just blowing smoke? That they are hoping the DS takes off and essentially becomes their GBA2?

Er... I'll only answer that last question. I think they are taking a wait and see approach to DS. If, if the DS is incredibly successful, and takes control as the GBA's successor, then we probably won't see GBA 2 until 2007 (Nintendo said 2006), or they'll just eventually rename it Game Boy DS as so many people already call it, or they'll just drop the GB brand forever.

Yeah, he really has. DJ is one of the few people on this forum (or any forum) who responded to the mods' "construtive criticism" positively (though not without some understanable resistance) and emerged a better poster because of it. Although many of his posts used to irritate me in the past, I now find him quite pleasant to listen to.

I don't think he ever truly believed the more enraging stuff he posted. Just got off on manipulating other people. If you've ever trolled Nintendo fans (or fans of anything) before... you'd know it's fun.

 

[AniHawk]

While I don't agree with "Nintendo 'low'" being better than "EA 'average'" (Burnout 3: Takedown blows away anything released on GCN this year IMHO), I pretty much agree with your projections of the kinds of unit sales Nintendo can still muster if they harness that extreme loyalty they have. The only question is, with yet another generation of expensive video game hardware on the way, will consumers (even the hardcore fans of Nintendo games) really want to split their discretionary spending 3 ways again? Nintendo seems ripe for a fall unless they make a change now and launch Revolution the right way.

Burnout 3 is an average EA game?

 

[Azih]

Burnout 3: Takedown is not EA 'average', it's EA top-tier alongwith SSX3.

 

[GamerDiva]

Nintendo seems ripe for a fall unless they make a change now and launch Revolution the right way.

Meaning?

P.S. How many of you think the DS was released more so to stop the PSP until the next GBA is released than for any other reason?

Er... I'll only answer that last question. I think they are taking a wait and see approach to DS. If, if the DS is incredibly successful, and takes control as the GBA's successor, then we probably won't see GBA 2 until 2007 (Nintendo said 2006), or they'll just eventually rename it Game Boy DS as so many people already call it, or they'll just drop the GB brand forever.

Good theory. I agree with it.

Many people do, and don't. It's been discussed many times in many threads. Do a search with the word, "stopgap."

Thanks.

 

[AniHawk]

Meaning?

P.S. How many of you think the DS was released more so to stop the PSP until the next GBA is released than for any other reason?

Many people do, and don't. It's been discussed many times in many threads. Do a search with the word, "stopgap."

 

[DJ Demon J]

Yeah, he really has. DJ is one of the few people on this forum (or any forum) who responded to the mods' "construtive criticism" positively (though not without some understanable resistance) and emerged a better poster because of it. Although many of his posts used to irritate me in the past, I now find him quite pleasant to listen to.

:lol

Just because I don't outright slam Nintendo as much as I used to doesn't mean I still don't dislike what they've become over the past 2 generations and doesn't negate my desire to see them 3rd party (and their software forced to stand on its own merits--and gasp, perhaps even become better gameplay experiences because of it--against other titles and not receive GOTY awards based on nostalgia alone).

I've made the same posts in the past, backing up my statements with the same arguments I've used in my posts above. Maybe my message has just gotten a little easier to swallow because the events of the back end of this console generation have proven my point and the truth has started to sink in with the Nintendo faithful (and not the Nintendo doubtful like myself). Maybe the pro-Nintendo mods of the forum also have realized the truth as well and are more open now to my constructive opinions (after all it is a forum, perish the thought) than they were before. After all, I'm targeting GameCube, which everyone has pretty much written off...as soon as I made a post comparing DS to Virtual Boy and backing up my statement with constructive criticism, bam, then I get banned. I guess it's OK to be critical as long as it's not of Nintendo's latest "get rich quick" gimmick/stopgap solution?

I still think any of you currently saying Gamecube is still a great experience and better than Xbox/PS2 are kidding yourselves (although I rarely see anyone with the zeal to proclaim such things anymore, except maybe Gahiggidy or DrGAKMAN), I think there was a lot of potential there, for sure, but much was wasted. For my own sake, wanting to have games like I did on the NES (although I continue to question myself on how much nostalgia has to do with idolizing those old games), I want to see Nintendo do better--but with Xbox and PS2 delivering SO much great content, Nintendo games are just not worth playing (unless they change).

So overall, my posting hasn't changed, you have. And for the better, I might add, if you're reading it and agreeing with what I have to say.

 

[bonesquad]

P.S. How many of you think the DS was released more so to stop the PSP until the next GBA is released than for any other reason?

Yes and no. I think DS is more of an experiment to see how receptive people are to something a little different. The reason it wasn't called Game Boy DS is so if it failed, oh well. They can then pump out a new handheld and call that the true successor.

 

[human5892]

:lol

Just because I don't outright slam Nintendo as much as I used to doesn't mean I still don't dislike what they've become over the past 2 generations and doesn't negate my desire to see them 3rd party (and their software forced to stand on its own merits--and gasp, perhaps even become better gameplay experiences because of it--against other titles and not receive GOTY awards based on nostalgia alone).

I've made the same posts in the past, backing up my statements with the same arguments I've used in my posts above. Maybe my message has just gotten a little easier to swallow because the events of the back end of this console generation have proven my point and the truth has started to sink in with the Nintendo faithful (and not the Nintendo doubtful like myself). Maybe the pro-Nintendo mods of the forum also have realized the truth as well and are more open now to my constructive opinions (after all it is a forum, perish the thought) than they were before. After all, I'm targeting GameCube, which everyone has pretty much written off...as soon as I made a post comparing DS to Virtual Boy and backing up my statement with constructive criticism, bam, then I get banned. I guess it's OK to be critical as long as it's not of Nintendo's latest "get rich quick" scheme?

I still think any of you currently saying Gamecube is still a great experience and better than Xbox/PS2 are kidding yourselves (although I rarely see anyone with the zeal to proclaim such things anymore, except maybe Gahiggidy or DrGAKMAN), I think there was a lot of potential there, for sure, but much was wasted. For my own sake, wanting to have games like I did on the NES (although I continue to question myself on how much nostalgia has to do with idolizing those old games), I want to see Nintendo do better--but with Xbox and PS2 delivering SO much great content, Nintendo games are just not worth playing (unless they change).

So overall, my posting hasn't changed, you have. And for the better, I might add, if you're reading it and agreeing with what I have to say.

I would argue that your overall posting has changed -- the random Nintendo trolls are gone for the most part. And those were what bugged me, not criticizing Nintendo (most of your Nintendo criticisms I agree with wholeheartedly).

 

[DJ Demon J]

Burnout 3 is an average EA game?

No, it's not--what I'm trying to say is Nintendo's lows are just as bad as any other companies, and other companies' highs can be higher than Nintendo's highs. I also disagree with the (decreasingly popular) opinion that every one of Nintendo's major franchise releases is always "A" material. So that's why I said I take issue with Drinky's statement.

 

[SantaC]

I am just used to Nintendo critism these days that it doesn't bother me as much.

 

[GamerDiva]

*still awaiting a response from DJ*

 

[border]

Although many of his posts used to irritate me in the past, I now find him quite pleasant to listen to.

I like him better now because everytime I read a post there is a chance I might get a free tag.

 

[human5892]

I like him better now because everytime I read a post there is a chance I might get a free tag.

:lol That's a bonus, too.

 

[Drinky Crow]

ONE CONSOLE WORLD!

With current technology, it's almost viable -- given a set of properly modern hardware specs, it'll take at least 8-10 years to really wring the juice out of it. The complexity of a forward-minded modern hardware specification is going to tax the current dev set, and not having to worry about ports lets them focus on doing just that. HARDWARE competition isn't necessary, since I don't feel growth needs to happen as fast as we're really hitting the limits of current TV sets.

Look at the hell of the PC video card market -- loads of features that are sorely underutilized on the top-of-the-line cards, suboptimized software, visual bugs/glitches galore, and massively inconsistent frame rates. Too much competition isn't necessarily good in a qualifiable sense, unless benchmarking is your primary source of entertainment in this industry -- current PC game feature sets lag five years behind the hardware, and a $300 card, despite being a monstrous deal for the level of technology, is victimized and castrated by shitty software and APIs. Xbox games, resolution issues aside, LOOK as good as the average high-end PC to the general consumer (note: not benchmark/screenshot whores) -- can anyone REALLY argue that the difference between Rallisport Challenge Xbox and RC PC on a high-end system is as massive as the disparity in specs might indicate?

Of course, the ONE CONSOLE WORLD doesn't change the important area of competition: SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT. With no radical hardware configurations to port to, devs can focus on creating the best and the least buggy content out there.

Best of all, if the ONE CONSOLE SPECIFICATION focuses not on set-top shit but on a core set of multimedia functions, there's no excuse like NINTENDO FAILED CUZ EVERYONE WANTED DVD!!! Some ONE CONSOLE SPECIFICATION implementations will have set-top software features external to the core multimedia functionality (like Media Center features) at an added price (to either the user or the manufacturer), but that sorta competition doesn't hamstring developers and create such a fractured software environment.

On top of all that, first-party accessory/peripheral manufacturers will lose their stranglehold. FUCK YOU $40 MEMORY CARDS.

The only compelling reason to have a multi-console world is for historians and collectors: quirky hardware and variety always make for a little color. Not that the ONE CONSOLE WORLD isn't a dream riddled with flaws -- developing a common hardware specification and APIs is a task I sure wouldn't want -- but in the end, with a proper hardware leader (Sony or MS), it could theoretically happen and I think we'd all be the richer for it.

 

[GamerDiva]

I like him better now because everytime I read a post there is a chance I might get a free tag.

Well I hate my tag and I don't even know how or why I got it! :lol