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Straight Black Men Are the White People of Black People

creatchee

Member
I think you misunderstood the example.
Comparing two persons is enough, because if A > B and B > C, then A > C. If you can compare two, you can sort any number of persons by their privilege.

As for number of traits, having even MORE traits, makes ladder even LESS feasible, with core problem, again, remaining that privilege is not quantifiable.

Right, that's why I said that the ladder rungs were all obscured except for the very top. Us not knowing the specific effect of a privilege does not mean that there is not a specific effect, nor does it preclude the order that a combination of effects assigns to any particular point of data. There is a hierarchy at play, but we can't absolutely say what it is because we only see comparisons to the top rung instead of in relation to other rungs. I think that's a stumbling block for a lot of people because not knowing where you stand in the world is a frustrating experience.

Also, another thing to keep in mind - the ladder is not static. It changes with the times. It would look completely different 10 years ago, let alone 50 or 100. Unfortunately, people's "worth" to society goes up and down like a stock depending on the variables that make them who they are.
 
This is a pretty strong statement. Are you certain?
I don't pay a shred of attention to the strand of Black feminism that paints straight Black males as a mass of violent, hyper-sexualised, abusive, and backwards and almost beastly like men. Some of that rhetoric is identical to what White racists have been saying about us for hundreds of years. I didnt entertain it ftom them and I wont entertain it from you. Miss me with it.
 

creatchee

Member
This sounds like bullshit to me.
White women werent any less racist than white men in the 1800s, yet you're saying they became 'pretty racist' after some rift in social movements?

Check these out. I'm not saying you aren't correct, but I'm going off of what I've read:

https://www.iup.edu/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=37705
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/25/134849480/the-root-how-racism-tainted-womens-suffrage
http://www.blackpast.org/1888-frederick-douglass-woman-suffrage
 

Wazzy

Banned
I don't pay a shred of attention to the strand of Black feminism that paints straight Black males as a mass of violent, hyper-sexualised, abusive, and backwards and almost beastly like men. Some of that rhetoric is identical to what White racists have been saying about us for hundreds of years. I didnt entertain it ftom them and I wont entertain it from you. Miss me with it.

Rather than acknowledge issues within your community you would rather broadly generalize a movements goals and dismiss black women's voices on issues they fucking experience.

You prove their point when you get defensive and dismissive the moment you're forced to confront issues within your community. Black men face horrible oppression and no one is denying that but so do black women and they have every right to speak out on issues they feel personally affect them just as much as you do.
 

llien

Member
It's understanding that you were born, through no effort of your own, into a station that privileges you in some way. For everyone in a first world country, it means understanding that they got incredibly lucky with where they were born. For straight people it means understanding that society is designed for you, and it's not designed for gay people. For whites it's acknowledging that in the U.S. the society is designed for us and protects us in ways that non-whites aren't protected..

Thanks. I'll think about it a little.
 
Black people should immediately emphasize with black LGBT because they're oppressing their fellow black people. Which is why I said you can't be Pro-Black if you're not Pro-LGBT. White women got a shit ton of flack for voting for Trump. Once studies came out about 47% of White Women voting for Trump, there were articles upon articles about how they should have known better, due to Trump and his sexism.

You should not expect White Women to be immediately empathetic with racism, because racism does not and will never affect her.

Black LGBT exist and rely on our community, and it affects us. We have black LGBT family members, black LGBT in black churches, black LGBT businesses...our skin and culture should unify us. So when black people partake in homophobia, that's privilege. When black men come at black women for not being submissive enough, that's privilege.

It's definitely harder being a gay black male, or black woman, than it is being a straight black male. Because we don't just experience oppression from OUTSIDE our race, but within it, too.
I agree. I misread the person i responded to and missed the "victimizing our own" part.

Man I wish we were unified and further along when it came to sexism and homophobia. I am probably one of the most progressive people in my family and every now and then I get the unfortunate reminder on how conservative some Black people can be. Among some family members there is a reluctance towards thinking outside the box on these issues (God said gays are bad and women should be subservient!) and a fear of rocking the boat when it comes to race. Its disappointing.
 
We’re the ones whose mistreatment inspired a boycott of the NFL despite the NFL’s long history of mishandling and outright ignoring far worse crimes against black women. We are the ones who get the biggest seat at the table and the biggest piece of chicken at the table despite making the smallest contribution to the meal.

This is false. First of all, the NFL does not abuse women. Players do. The boycott stems from the blackballing of Kaepernick. Also, domestic violence by NFL players is not exclusive to black players or black people.

Secondly, black men contribute more to their families than white men. The false narrative of absentee black father was refuted two years ago:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/opinion/charles-blow-black-dads-are-doing-the-best-of-all.html

This kind of misinformation and slander serves to divide rather than uplift the underclass.

"Black men are the white people of black people"? FOH.
 
That's too specific. I'm just saying Christians should be more accepting. And black christians have more personal experience of being discriminated against. Not up to me how these folks carry out their lives.
Yeah I misread your post. I agree with this. Hahaha i feel like nearly every religious person in my family has a huge blindspot when it comes to empathy and love condemning others.
 
Rather than acknowledge issues within your community you would rather broadly generalize a movements goals and dismiss black women's voices on issues they fucking experience.

You prove their point when you get defensive and dismissive the moment you're forced to confront issues within your community. Black men face horrible oppression and no one is denying that but so do black women and they have every right to speak out on issues they feel personally affect them just as much as you do.
I don't dismiss Black women. I will dismiss a psychotic like Feminista Jones though and anyone else like that.
 

AJLma

Member
Can you expand on the music part? I am not familiar with the revolutionary spirit of Black music from decades ago. I've always been suspicious, though, of the narrowing down of contemporary rap radio to just hedonism or violence when there was much more representation (and pro black messaging) within mainstream rap culture two decades ago. You're dropping knowledge in here.

From what I've heard, post civil rights era black people's attitude towards each other was a lot more positive and about building up their families/communities/businesses, and it no doubt it had a lot to do with the fact that for the past decades even back then, black musicians were making positive, socially aware music that had black people excited about their future prospects in this country. Someone like MLK could never have risen to such status, if the groundwork hadn't been set in people's mind and people weren't set & ready to move. MLK had people doing major demonstrations & boycotts, and organizing politically in a way that would be impossible today because of the effects that systematic oppression has had over the last 40+ years since he died without a voice to replace him.

But up until hip hop started going mainstream in the late 80's, most mainstream black music was either about: Partying and having a good time, love, being proud, struggling and calling for unity, or some straight up attack on systematic corruption that just went viral, like early reggae, coming from Jamaican Rastas reclaiming a lost part of the culture. You can hear in the music that it would have been super weird for someone as negative and aggressive as most of these rappers today to show face, I don't think they would have even existed back then as an archetype, they'd have just been militants, there would be no outlet for their frustration, people were on their Lets Stay Together and War, What is it Good For? vibe, not to mention dealing with real threats to their existence from the outside... The negativity you see in the music today was deliberately cultivated because it would reach a larger mass audience and do the work of putting a lot of black people in a worse off state at the same time...

You can listen for it in the mid-70's though, when the formerly positive artists start getting fed up and the music becomes more aggressive and takes on the "rapping/talking" tone that we know today.

Marvin Gaye - What's Happening Brother and the whole What's Going On album really..
The Temptations - Ball of Confusion - You know it's getting bad when The Temptations have to stop singing and rap for a second.
 

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
I try and do my best acknowledging my privilege, not trying to hide it but to examine it and bringing it to light. First step is admitting to the problem.
 

Tonedeff

Member
Hmm, does that mean that white women or gay men are the black people of white people?

lol Strangely enough, if you made that argument seriously, I'd bet money the same motherfuckers lapping this shit up would jump all over you
 
Isn't most of that just male privilege? Like as a black man I definitely have an advantage over black women but like, I always attributed that to the loke, dude part of me, not the black part.
 
Isn't most of that just male privilege? Like as a black man I definitely have an advantage over black women but like, I always attributed that to the loke, dude part of me, not the black part.
Who's saying it's from the black part? It isn't saying that black straight males have it better because they're black.....
 
This kind of misinformation and slander serves to divide rather than uplift the underclass.

"Black men are the white people of black people"? FOH.

This is my feelings on the matter. We have issues sure, and they should be addressed but it reads like slander not an honest attempt at dialogue. Protip: Calling a black man a white man has been used as an insult for decades.
 

Miles X

Member
Kinda common sense surely?

Straight > Gay
Men > Women
White > Black
Rich > Poor

In terms of privilige

Poor Black lesbians have to deal with a shit ton of abuse and hardship I imagine.

At the end of the day though, if any one group faces discrimination ect it shouldn't be a contest to be the biggest victim.
 

Beefy

Member
Kinda common sense surely?

Straight > Gay
Men > Women
White > Black
Rich > Poor

In terms of privilige

Poor Black lesbians have to deal with a shit ton of abuse and hardship I imagine.

At the end of the day though, if any one group faces hardship it shouldn't be a contest to be the biggest victim.

You forgot trans
 
You guys got played by OP

Guess he got what he wanted tho

No one thought it was odd he only posted the first bit, with none of the follow up expanding on the actual point?
 

trixx

Member
I've heard this argument before. All I had to say was okay. I mean there isn't much else to say.

But yeah basically straight male privilege, which is obvious
 

Kebiinu

Banned
Kinda common sense surely?

Straight > Gay
Men > Women
White > Black
Rich > Poor

In terms of privilige

Poor Black lesbians have to deal with a shit ton of abuse and hardship I imagine.

At the end of the day though, if any one group faces discrimination ect it shouldn't be a contest to be the biggest victim.

You would think it's common sense, but people have a real problem admitting privilege. A lot of poor black LGBT have awful, awful lives. Especially combined with the AIDS prevalence AMONG the black community in general, and the ignorance that goes with it.

I close friend of mine said she would never date a bisexual black man, because she's worried about catching AIDS. She's black herself, and it was diet homophobia. The stigmas are heavy, and its disappointing. But when people try to discuss these issues within our community we get hit with "Don't be fooled by the gay agenda! Homosexuality is a mental illness." from our own brothers and sisters. Shit hurts, man.

But one step at a time. We can make this change. For women, LGBT, and black people as a whole.
 

trixx

Member
You know the white dudes who insist that the real problem is economic inequality and that everyone else should stop talking about other issues until that one is solved; and then they'll go away themselves. Like, racism and homophobia and transphobia are problems we should ignore because the only fight is between rich and poor and how dare you suggest that they, as a poor person, are responsible for any oppression themselves?

Some straight black men sound a lot like that, but with white supremacy instead of economic inequality. Just like how many white feminists want to focus solely on the patriarchy. There's a privilege that comes with only experiencing one (or a few) axis of oppression where you can just overlook intersectionality as irrelevant to your self. Hell as a white gay man I see it a lot with white gay men not caring about any minorities at all.
I agree with this, good post. This often happens when people are selfish which most are.
 
Just say that there are great and unique challenges being queer or a woman in the African American community. Ranking privilege is offensive and arrogant.
 
Sure, anecdotally. However, if you look at actual data, e.g. income, debt, prison rates, educational attainment, etc. Black women stomp on the men. It's really no contest. There is no way to quantify "hardship" and taking "more shit". Black men are killed way more than the women, so I'd argue black men have more hardship, unless you think being killed isn't a big deal.

The only reason it sucks to be a black women is ironically because of the lack of good black men (too many of them are in prison or don't have good jobs).

Isn't this true of men vs. women in general?
 

Gattsu25

Banned
You guys got played by OP

Guess he got what he wanted tho

No one thought it was odd he only posted the first bit, with none of the follow up expanding on the actual point?
Unfortunately for me, I read the article before I checked GAF so I already knew what the article was about.

Also, none of this is new to people that listen to The Black Guy Who Tips podcast
 
Unfortunately for me, I read the article before I checked GAF so I already knew what the article was about.

Also, none of this is new to people that listen to The Black Guy Who Tips podcast

Yeah, I saw Rod talking about this on Twitter yesterday and the piles of ashes in his mentions lol

Didn't think anyone would be crazy enough to make a thread about it here, all things considered
 

The_Kid

Member
I mean, yeah? I wouldn't necessarily phrase it like that though. I feel like oversimplifying it like that takes away from the intersectional prejudices black women face.
 
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