Support NeoGAF

[Geminosity]

That's actually a guy, not a girl.

Probably, though the original japanese quote doesn't actually state that. It merely says that they could be mistaken for being a young girl, which either means it's a boy or an older woman. Not that it really matters all that much to anyone outside of whoever balances health values at Capcom

 

[KTO]

As Sixteen-bit points out:

SF3's resident pretty-boy isn't exactly a hulking mountain of muscle, heck Seth could crush him with one of his biceps and he's sub 1000 XD

Combat sports are arranged into weight classes for a reason. A more massive person has a huge advantage over a less massive person. This is how Capcom translates that advantage into the game. Saying sexual dimorphism is in some way offensive is ridiculous.

 

[Greenzxy]

Probably, though the original japanese quote doesn't actually state that. It merely says that they could be mistaken for being a young girl, which either means it's a boy or an older woman. Not that it really matters all that much to anyone outside of whoever balances health values at Capcom

True, true.

 

[Geminosity]

Combat sports are arranged into weight classes for a reason. A more massive person has a huge advantage over a less massive person. This is how Capcom translates that advantage into the game. Saying sexual dimorphism is in some way offensive is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone said it was offensive, more that it doesn't make much sense because it's not actually based off sexual dimorphism because their body types don't even remotely seem to affect their hp, and you quoted a perfect example of how they really don't give a fubble about weight classes: seth has sub 1000 and is a walking metal muscle while remy is a thin lithe figure above 1000

 

[Inuhanyou]

I hope that happens. I wanna see that new outfit in action.

Its not even new, its been around for almost 20 years at this point, we've just never had it in a game besides the USF4 ending. Not even as an alternate outfit has it been featured. I think we're ready to see adult Sakura in a game.

 

[ElFly]

The real problem is that Capcom doesn't have heavy women who could justify having more than 950 hp. Maaaaybe Makoto, but I am thinking more of

I don't think anyone said it was offensive, more that it doesn't make much sense because it's not actually based off sexual dimorphism because their body types don't even remotely seem to affect their hp, and you quoted a perfect example of how they really don't give a fubble about weight classes: seth has sub 1000 and is a walking metal muscle while remy is a thin lithe figure above 1000

You are comparing different games tho.

IIRC Remy and Chun have the same HP in 3

Checking, in 3 Makoto has as much hp as Alex...which seems wrong.

 

[Hours Left]

I dabbled a bit with Abel just to see what his moveset was like and it clicked with me pretty well, but like a lot of people his character design does absolutely nothing for me whatsoever. It just makes me seethe that they took this interesting playstyle and decided to attach it to mr forgettable over the original design: a design that doesn't have too much representation in the cast compared to the hulking gi boyz. I honestly feel it would've been much more popular than what we got.

Gah... sorry... I can't help but rant about it when people bring it up. It just aggrivates me so much more than it should XD

I feel the exact opposite. Abel is one of the best designs in the series IMO, and having his playstyle given to some young child seems like something they'd do just to pander. And we already have Makoto filling the young powerful character. Plus, Abel placed second out of the new SFIV characters in the most recent poll, so he's not exactly unpopular either. I'd say middle of the pack overall.

I wouldn't call this design forgettable by any stretch.

Simple =/= Boring

 

[GnawtyDog]

Can't believe they're going to keep Adon instead of the True Muay Thai Warrior, Sagat!

 

[Mizerman]

Its not even new, its been around for almost 20 years at this point, we've just never had it in a game besides the USF4 ending. Not even as an alternate outfit has it been featured. I think we're ready to see adult Sakura in a game.

Yeah, I know it's not exactly new. But I just wish to see an older Sakura wearing that as opposed to the schoolgirl outfit yet again. Though they could keep that outfit as an alternate costume as DLC or something.

 

[Geminosity]

I feel the exact opposite. Abel is one of the best designs in the series IMO, and having his playstyle given to some young child seems like something they'd do just to pander. And we already have Makoto filling the young powerful character.

Plus, Abel placed second out of the new SFIV characters in the most recent poll, so he's not exactly unpopular either. I'd say middle of the pack.

I dunno, having a single character rep the young powerful niche while abel adds to a very packed category of well-muscled grapplers doesn't seem all that refreshing to me, but while I know I'm prone to emotive language don't take my 'mr boring' comments too seriously: I know he's actually a tribute to fedor and considering the little touches that nod to it, it's actually somewhat interesting from a design standpoint.
The reason you'll see me posting my ire is because that kind of thing doesn't appeal to me aesthetically though and it can feel a bit frustrating to have a whole playstyle locked to a very entrenched look while some of the other movesets seem to have a bit more fun with their variety of characters, especially when the original design shows we were SO CLOSE to finally breaking that grappler niche beyond just R.Mika :3

So, TLR In a vaccuum there's not much wrong with Abel, but within the confines of the existing SF roster I don't feel he stands out too much

 

[ElFly]

All those Abel popularity votes should be automatically given to Hakan, the superior SF4 grappler.

 

[mnz]

Can't believe they're going to keep Adon instead of the True Muay Thai Warrior, Sagat!

They are?

 

[ElFly]

Anyone else prefer ultra or super versions over steady DLC characters and balance patches? Looking at MK steady patches actually ruins fighting games. I would rather have a large 15-20 dollars DLC every year with 5 new characters and balance like they are doing now with SFIV. Ofcourse keep it to one disk. Just update Via DLC.

I think a regular balance patch schedule would be best, like, every 3 months, not considering emergency patches to fix obviously broken stuff.

The game will prolly need lots of small patches to address the crossplatform matches anyway.

 

[Hours Left]

I dunno, having a single character rep the young powerful niche while abel adds to a very packed category of well-muscled grapplers doesn't seem all that refreshing to me, but while I know I'm prone to emotive language don't take my 'mr boring' comments too seriously: I know he's actually a tribute to fedor and considering the little touches that nod to it, it's actually somewhat interesting from a design standpoint.
The reason you'll see me posting my ire is because that kind of thing doesn't appeal to me aesthetically though and it can feel a bit frustrating to have a whole playstyle locked to a very entrenched look while some of the other movesets seem to have a bit more fun with their variety of characters, especially when the original design shows we were SO CLOSE to finally breaking that grappler niche beyond just R.Mika :3

So, TLR In a vaccuum there's not much wrong with Abel, but within the confines of the existing SF roster I don't feel he stands out too much

You shouldn't feel bad about not being a fan of a design, everyone likes what they like, but I personally find it's better to focus on supporting who I do like as opposed to tearing down other characters. (Though I still do it too, even though I try not to.)

And personally, I don't think Abel is that similar to the other grapplers on multiple levels. Firstly, his actually playstyle has a much more kinectic feel. It's not nearly as heavy or plodding as the other guys. Secondly, his personality is totally different than the other grappler characters, while the rest are brash and over the top (which is fine), Abel is a polite and friendly guy, and even a bit goofy when he's around animals, something I think is really refreshing and appealing. There's really no other dude in the series that acts like him. And lastly, one thing I really appreciate is that he was purposely designed to be attractive. Out of all the new SFIV characters, we only got one guy that would be considered a "hunk", and Abel is that guy, and you can tell from his alternate costumes that they understand his appeal.

It just makes me sad that lately people that don't like him seem content to throw him under the bus when there's really no reason. I feel like Abel is a character that if I wasn't familiar with the series, would be someone that I could easily think originated from Street Fighter II, that's how classic I feel his design reads. The rest of the SFIV cast is so over the top, it's nice to have a more understated dude. (As you can tell, I really like Abel.)

 

[IntelliHeath]

Luckily, Sakura already has a costume that she uses in her 20s when she graduates and becomes a teacher

They even showed it at the very end of USF4

If she shows up in this game, she's most likely going to be wearing this outfit and and having longer hair

I would be definitely okay with that sine it really show that she could mature, rather than stuck in schoolgirl phase.

We've seen Hugo and Poison in USFIV, although the same could be said about Cody, Guy, and Rolento.
On second thought, remove Cody and Guy, and replace them with El Gado and Roxy. Rolento will be the only exception since he's amazing and I'm biased.

Don't! Add Hugo and Poison to Final Fight list then we would have Final Fight vs. Street Fighter

 

[GorillaJu]

People keep repeating this mantra that Ken won't make it in because they're shying away from clones. SF4 had Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Dan, Sakura, Evil Ryu, Gouken and Oni, as well as Cammy and Decapre, Abel and Seth and Yun and Yang. That would be an example of over-doing clones and probably what they're talking about when they say they want to avoid a repeat of that. Before the pedants come out telling me that Gouken plays nothing like Dan and Decapre isn't like Cammy, I'm speaking from a thematic and character-design perspective, not purely play style.

Not wanting to be like SF4 doesn't mean that there won't be a single clone, anywhere in the game. Releasing Street Fighter V without Ken in 2015 would be hugely disappointing. I mean even ‘New Generation’ SF3 did away with every single SF character up to that point except Ryu and Ken.

They'll probably save him for last or near-last to keep the community on the edge of its seat, but Ken will be in.

 

[Geminosity]

The real problem is that Capcom doesn't have heavy women who could justify having more than 950 hp. Maaaaybe Makoto, but I am thinking more of





You are comparing different games tho.

IIRC Remy and Chun have the same HP in 3

Checking, in 3 Makoto has as much hp as Alex...which seems wrong.

That's the point though... when it comes to normal or below health values they really don't care about weight classes or even body structure and they've never actually stuck to it, that's why it's never a valid argument. It's not even a case of there being one or two examples of them breaking this trend, within the male category alone they're all over the shop regardless of how they actually look. Does Akuma look particularly frail to you? What about Evil Ryu who has exactly the same musculature and general frame as his much healthier counterpart Ryu? Does Vega look like he can take a punch better than Guy or any of the previously mentioned? :3
The only time any real consistency kicks in is when you actually go ABOVE 1000hp at which point they're all heavy characters but I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that any of the female character should be up there based on the designs we've had :3

Every now and then Capcom will break the mould and give a female character 1000hp but those moments are far and few between, not to mention they sometimes 'fix' that mistake, like how Makoto got her health lowered in SF4 to sub-1000 eventually

Now... if people want to argue that the hp values for females are low because of the playstyles/movesets they seem to get stuck with then we have a debate, but it being based off sexual dimorphism/weight classes/body types doesn't really work when the rest of the cast don't even bother following that logic

 

[DryEyeRelief]

People keep repeating this mantra that Ken won't make it in because they're shying away from clones. SF4 had Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Dan, Sakura, Evil Ryu, Gouken and Oni, as well as Cammy and Decapre, Abel and Seth and Yun and Yang. That would be an example of over-doing clones and probably what they're talking about when they say they want to avoid a repeat of that. Before the pedants come out telling me that Gouken plays nothing like Dan and Decapre isn't like Cammy, I'm speaking from a thematic and character-design perspective, not purely play style.

Not wanting to be like SF4 doesn't mean that there won't be a single clone, anywhere in the game. Releasing Street Fighter V without Ken in 2015 would be hugely disappointing. I mean even ‘New Generation’ SF3 did away with every single SF character up to that point except Ryu and Ken.

They'll probably save him for last or near-last to keep the community on the edge of its seat, but Ken will be in.

I doubt it. Ken is usually showed with Ryu as the first available characters. Instead it was Ryu and Chun-Li, which is reminiscent of the vs Capcom series. Chun is picked over Ken to represent Street Fighter along with Ryu. Examples: Marvel vs Capcom 1 had Ryu, Chun-Li and Zangief. Tatsunoko vs Capcom had Ryu, Chun-Li and Alex. Marvel vs Capcom 3 had Ryu, Chun-Li and Akuma. Chun-Li being pushed as the default 2p character implies Ken isn't going to be in there.

I think Ken as a DLC is more likely.

 

[ElFly]

Eh, dunno.

-I am ok with murderous karate being bad for your general health. So that accounts for Akuma and E.Ryu.

-Seth IS FRAGILE. Have you looked at the guy? he is literally falling apart.

-Makoto is supposed to be strong...but prolly not at the level of Alex. SF3 is in the wrong here, but the thing is they made a tier for "everyone strong that is below Urien", which is Alex/Q (!!)/Ryu/Ken/Dudley/Makoto. But dunno if it was worth it to slightly differentiate Makoto from Alex and Q.

So basically, until we have someone like Tobal's Mary, the girls will have to have at the very best, the same HP as Ryu.

 

[Geminosity]

You shouldn't feel bad about not being a fan of a design, everyone likes what they like, but I personally find it's better to focus on supporting who I do like as opposed to tearing down other characters. (Though I still do it too, even though I try not to.)

And personally, I don't think Abel is that similar to the other grapplers on multiple levels. Firstly, his actually playstyle has a much more kinectic feel. It's not nearly as heavy or plodding as the other guys. Secondly, his personality is totally different than the other grappler characters, while the rest are brash and over the top (which is fine), Abel is a polite and friendly guy, and even a bit goofy when he's around animals, something I think is really refreshing and appealing. There's really no other dude in the series that acts like him. And lastly, one thing I really appreciate is that he was purposely designed to be attractive. Out of all the new SFIV characters, we only got one guy that would be considered a "hunk", and Abel is that guy, and you can tell from his alternate costumes that they understand his appeal.

It just makes me sad that lately people that don't like him seem content to throw him under the bus when there's really no reason. I feel like Abel is a character that if I wasn't familiar with the series, would be someone that I could easily think originated from Street Fighter II, that's how classic I feel his design reads. The rest of the SFIV cast is so over the top, it's nice to have a more understated dude. (As you can tell, I really like Abel.)

well, personality-wise he strikes me very much as the spear counterpart version of Cammy: they both have the initial amnesia plot, they're both quite quiet and have a soft spot for animals :3

This is the thing, if Abel was always as he is now I don't think I would've even been all that fussed. For my personal tastes he kind of blends into the background and there's nothing wrong with that: he's intended for a different audience and I don't actually have an issue with that or the people who like his look

The only reason poor Abel insights my ire is because his original design was an extreme rarity: a capcom grappler I actually liked the look of. Being reminded of this unfulfilled desire just kind of aggravated this festering annoyance I've had since way back: I'm more into hard reads, mind-games and simple damage so grappler movesets actually resonate pretty well with how I work as a fighter, but I really, really, really, really, really dislike the characters they keep putting into that category. It's so incredibly rare to see someone l actually would like to play with the movesets I enjoy. My fighting game career is pretty much just me making do with whatever moveset I get stuck with. I've tried playing characters i dislike to access movesets i actually enjoy but it just makes me hate the game and inevitably either quit or switch back
So now every time I look at Abel, I don't see him but rather what he could've been.

As for fulfilling roles within the SF4 newcomers, It looks like in the original sketches that Rufus was originally meant to be 'the guy' with his king cobra design. I can't speak for his attractiveness within the particular aesthetics though as I think peeps like Remy or Vega are more in line with what I think of whem people talk about boys and eye-candy

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Eh. Characters having different life bars is what should go. Do your balancing through the rest of the characters' attributes.

 

[Hours Left]

well, personality-wise he strikes me very much as the spear counterpart version of Cammy: they both have the initial amnesia plot, they're both quite quiet and have a soft spot for animals :3

This is the thing, if Abel was always as he is now I don't think I would've even been all that fussed. For my personal tastes he kind of blends into the background and there's nothing wrong with that: he's intended for a different audience and I don't actually have an issue with that or the people who like his look

The only reason poor Abel insights my ire is because his original design was an extreme rarity: a capcom grappler I actually liked the look of. Being reminded of this unfulfilled desire just kind of aggravated this festering annoyance I've had since way back: I'm more into hard reads, mind-games and simple damage so grappler movesets actually resonate pretty well with how I work as a fighter, but I really, really, really, really, really dislike the characters they keep putting into that category. It's so incredibly rare to see someone l actually would like to play with the movesets I enjoy. My fighting game career is pretty much just me making do with whatever moveset I get stuck with. I've tried playing characters i dislike to access movesets i actually enjoy but it just makes me hate the game and inevitably either quit or switch back
So now every time I look at Abel, I don't see him but rather what he could've been.

As for fulfilling roles within the SF4 newcomers, It looks like in the original sketches that Rufus was originally meant to be 'the guy' with his king cobra design. I can't speak for his attractiveness within the particular aesthetics though as I think peeps like Remy or Vega are more in line with what I think of whem people talk about boys and eye-candy

For myself personally, movesets are secondary to design as I always use whoever I like as a character first, and if they have a cool moveset, then that's just a bonus. I don't play competitively so it's a luxury I can afford myself. I do know it's sad to miss out on character designs you've looked forward to, that how I feel everytime I see Zubaz or Juri's original design, for example. I love seeing concept art, but knowing what could of been can be painful sometimes. But even if we did get that character you posted, I don't think they'd play exactly as Abel does now, since design would naturally influence how they fight as well. Possibly similar, but not the same. (And I know which Rufus design you're talking about, but even though he's also attractive, I think the primary feeling that design was aiming for was cool/badass, not quite the same as Abel IMO.)

And I would say Abel fills a different level of attractiveness. Not the "pretty boy" type, but more the bara aesthetic, which primarily appeals to gay men, such as myself.

 

[Geminosity]

So basically, until we have someone like Tobal's Mary, the girls will have to have at the very best, the same HP as Ryu.

I don't think you'd find anyone arguing against that, at least not in this thread so far That said, as someone who's quite invested in game design I've always just preferred the idea of focussing on the gameplay over realism when it comes to balancing decisions :3

Eh. Characters having different life bars is what should go. Do your balancing through the rest of the characters' attributes.

That's actually how Soul Calibur works, which is interesting because if you asked most people they'd probably think that Astaroth has a lot of health or the like, but everyone has exactly the same (240 apparently, as of SCV)

 

[Mik317]

I don't think you'd find anyone arguing against that, at least not in this thread so far That said, as someone who's quite invested in game design I've always just preferred the idea of focussing on the gameplay over realism when it comes to balancing decisions :3


That's actually how Soul Calibur works, which is interesting because if you asked most people they'd probably think that Astaroth has a lot of health or the like, but everyone has exactly the same (240 apparently, as of SCV)

gtfoh

really?

wow

 

[Skilletor]

That's actually how Soul Calibur works, which is interesting because if you asked most people they'd probably think that Astaroth has a lot of health or the like, but everyone has exactly the same (240 apparently, as of SCV)

Standard lifebars is typically a 3D thing. Varying lifebars a 2D one.

You're not likely to have a character with the mobility of Chipp/Ibuki/Yun/Yang/Millia in a 3D game.

 

[Village]

I feel the exact opposite. Abel is one of the best designs in the series IMO, and having his playstyle given to some young child seems like something they'd do just to pander. And we already have Makoto filling the young powerful character. Plus, Abel placed second out of the new SFIV characters in the most recent poll, so he's not exactly unpopular either. I'd say middle of the pack overall.

I wouldn't call this design forgettable by any stretch.

Simple =/= Boring

I would argue that like alex being ontop of a sf poll that poll isn't reflective of anything and the the two SF4 newcomers people actually give two shits about are Juri and Viper and its always been that way. Those are the ones that all the cosplay fan art and everything else. No one know's abel exists, ( this is coming from a person, who wants every sf4 dude except rufus to come back)he design is just too simple. And he's just MMA man.

He's simple AND boring

 

[stn]

I hope you guys aren't using the lore to balance out character health, because then Akuma should have the highest health. And the best options. Lore should have zero effect on character balance.

 

[Village]

I hope you guys aren't using the lore to balance out character health, because then Akuma should have the highest health. And the best options. Lore should have zero effect on character balance.

it does all the time?

 

[Vice]

it does all the time?

In fighting games it doesn't have much influence. Characters like Sakura and Yun can be monsters that blow away masters like Gouken and Oro or monserously strong characters like Seth or Balrog.

As far as health goes, a kid like Makoto shouldn't have more health than a grown man and a fitness monster like Akuma shouldn't have less stamina than someone like Rufus.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

That's actually how Soul Calibur works, which is interesting because if you asked most people they'd probably think that Astaroth has a lot of health or the like, but everyone has exactly the same (240 apparently, as of SCV)

I remember SC2 and SC4 life bars being 240 as well, it probably just stuck through the series.

KOF XIII has everyone at 1000, and lets you clearly see each 1/10 segment which is nice. Forgot the number for Yatagarasu but it's the same across the cast too. That one has the guts system like SF4 which I don't really like either, but I think that's gone in SFV.

 

[Hours Left]

I would argue that like alex being ontop of a sf poll that poll isn't reflective of anything and the the two SF4 newcomers people actually give two shits about are Juri and Viper and its always been that way. Those are the ones that all the cosplay fan art and everything else. No one know's abel exists, ( this is coming from a person, who wants every sf4 dude except rufus to come back)he design is just too simple. And he's just MMA man.

He's simple AND boring

Depends where you look. I've seen infinitely more Abel fanart compared to Viper, but that's because I tend to frequent sites that tend to focus on the type of character Abel is. Plus, you don't see Viper making the final rounds of high end competitive play to the same degree you see Abel, so he's more used in that capacity too. And I'm not sure what you're Alex comment even means, are you saying he's not sought after?

I'm not trying to downplay Viper, or anyone, but just because you personally don't care for Abel, doesn't mean you need to make such sweeping generalizations.

 

[Village]

In fighting games it doesn't have much influence. Characters like Sakura and Yun can be monsters that blow away masters like Gouken and Oro or monserously strong characters like Seth or Balrog.

Like i mean I get that, ( Why DR strange and Dormmammu don't ruin the entire marvel cast )
I mean lore effects play style and balance all the time though, it just doesn't effect everything. Its why strider is a fragile ninja. And Hugo is a brick shit house, who these characters are and how they are designs effects some of these things, all the time. They don't effect everything, because then you get bleach games where its just Ichigo wins

 

[LeleSocho]

I wouldn't call this design forgettable by any stretch.

Really? Abel is the most forgettable character design in any fighting games ever, it doesn't have an ounce of personality nor a quality that makes you remember him... Boring boring boring I hope we'll never see him waste a character slot again.

 

[direct_quote]

Like i mean I get that, ( Why DR strange and Dormmammu don't ruin the entire marvel cast )
I mean lore effects play style and balance all the time though, it just doesn't effect everything. Its why strider is a fragile ninja. And Hugo is a brick shit house, who these characters are and how they are designs effects some of these things, all the time. They don't effect everything, because then you get bleach games where its just Ichigo wins

At least they got Vergil right kappa.

I agree that Abel is the most boring character in SF history, I forget about him until I see 801 Strider wrecking house with him.

 

[Karsticles]

I feel the exact opposite. Abel is one of the best designs in the series IMO, and having his playstyle given to some young child seems like something they'd do just to pander. And we already have Makoto filling the young powerful character. Plus, Abel placed second out of the new SFIV characters in the most recent poll, so he's not exactly unpopular either. I'd say middle of the pack overall.

I wouldn't call this design forgettable by any stretch.

Simple =/= Boring

Every time I see Abel, I have forgotten he exists. I have to think about what he looks like, or what he does. I have to look at his name while playing so I know who this is. Completely dull and forgettable character.

 

[Hours Left]

Really? Abel is the most forgettable character design in any fighting games ever, it doesn't have an ounce of personality nor a quality that makes you remember him... Boring boring boring I hope we'll never see him waste a character slot again.

Every time I see Abel, I have forgotten he exists. I have to think about what he looks like, or what he does. I have to look at his name while playing so I know who this is. Completely dull and forgettable character.

Okay, so you guys are just being flippant then. Got it.

 

[stn]

it does all the time?

Oni is the strongest USF4 character in terms of lore. He's mid-tier at best. E. Ryu is also one of the strongest characters in the USF4 lore, he wasn't really good until the latest version of USF4. Sagat was the best character in SF4, he's below Akuma in the lore. And so on.

 

[Qvoth]

Kinda wish this is the actual SF5 roster

didn't verendus heavily imply no ken?

 

[direct_quote]

Okay, so you guys are just being flippant then. Got it.

Proves a point really,that his character is so bland people forget about him existing.

 

[Pompadour]

I feel the exact opposite. Abel is one of the best designs in the series IMO, and having his playstyle given to some young child seems like something they'd do just to pander. And we already have Makoto filling the young powerful character. Plus, Abel placed second out of the new SFIV characters in the most recent poll, so he's not exactly unpopular either. I'd say middle of the pack overall.

I wouldn't call this design forgettable by any stretch.

Simple =/= Boring

I think a few of the SF4 characters look bad in 4's engine. C. Viper looked way better in MvC3 than her original iteration.

 

[Village]

Depends where you look. I've seen infinitely more Abel fanart compared to Viper, but that's because I tend to frequent sites that tend to focus on the type of character Abel is. Plus, you don't see Viper making the final rounds of high end competitive play to the same degree you see Abel, so he's more used in that capacity too. And I'm not sure what you're Alex comment even means, are you saying he's not sought after?

You don't have to look for Juri and viper stuff, they kind of just come up, like cammy, sakura , ect. As far as people playing goes, it depends on the build? Viper was played more when she was good. Yun was played more when he was better, people go for high tiers in tournament settings a lot of the time. There are better characters, also o that note , in viper's favor. Viper unlike abel is a character who i constantly see people go " I like this character but I don't how to make this character do things " and with abel " He's kind of fun but boring ". I don't go out to " fuck abel " websites and look for decent, this is just some anecdotal stuff i come across... a lot

He's mma guy, or thats what a lot of people see him as ,

I'm not trying to downplay Viper, or anyone, but just because you personally don't care for Abel, doesn't mean you need to make such sweeping generalizations.

Sorry if I seem rude, i'm not trying to be. All i'm saying is , that poll might not mean much. I love alex, but I'm not even going to pretend him being on the top of any poll means anything, because no one played 3rd strike.

 

[Hours Left]

Proves a point really,that his character is so bland people forget about him existing.

Or people are just acting petty because they don't like a character.

There's a difference between saying you don't like a character and wishing they never get a slot "wasted" on them again right after someone else was stating they liked said character.

You don't have to look for Juri and viper stuff, they kind of just come up, like cammy, sakura , ect. As far as people playing goes, it depends on the build? Viper was played more when she was good. Yun was played more when he was better, people go for high tiers in tournament settings a lot of the time. There are better characters, also o that note , in viper's favor. Viper unlike abel is a character who i constantly see people go " I like this character but I don't how to make this character do things " and with abel " He's kind of fun but boring ". I don't go out to " fuck abel " websites and look for decent, this is just some anecdotal stuff i come across... a lot

He's mma guy, or thats what a lot of people see him as ,

The reason all those characters get tons of fanart is because they're females, and the primary audience for SF is straight dudes.

Sorry if I seem rude, i'm not trying to be. All i'm saying is , that poll might not mean much. I love alex, but I'm not even going to pretend him being on the top of any poll means anything, because no one played 3rd strike.

3rd Strike wasn't a huge success, but it has a super cult following, and I think Alex also acts as a symbol of that. I don't think his popularity is an anomaly, as he charts high pretty much all the time.

 

[Vice]

Like i mean I get that, ( Why DR strange and Dormmammu don't ruin the entire marvel cast )
I mean lore effects play style and balance all the time though, it just doesn't effect everything. Its why strider is a fragile ninja. And Hugo is a brick shit house, who these characters are and how they are designs effects some of these things, all the time. They don't effect everything, because then you get bleach games where its just Ichigo wins

I think it's more playstyle than balance, especially in the Street Fighter series. It's why a character that should be relativey weak like a Sakura or Ibuki can be much more viable than someone like Gen or Oni who are supposed to be some of the strongest warriors in the planet. Lore affects playstyle, but it doesn't affect balance very much.

 

[Village]

I think it's more playstyle than balance, especially in the Street Fighter series. It's why a character that should be relativey weak like a Sakura or Ibuki can be much more viable than someone like Gen or Oni who are supposed to be some of the strongest warriors in the planet. Lore affects playstyle, but it doesn't affect balance very much.

I would argue play style in fact effects balance, but I can totally go with what you are saying.

 

[LeleSocho]

Okay, so you guys are just being flippant then. Got it.

Just because one disagrees with you? lol ok
The opinion of Abel being boring is actually pretty widespread so i think you are fighting a losing battle.

Just to be clear i'm not saying that Abel design should've been the young boy/girl prototype one but just anything aside what we actually got, it really is boring and forgettable.

 

[Geminosity]

Standard lifebars is typically a 3D thing. Varying lifebars a 2D one.

You're not likely to have a character with the mobility of Chipp/Ibuki/Yun/Yang/Millia in a 3D game.

I agree with the general idea but I think it's actually the opposite: I think it's because it's rare to have a 3D character with low manouverability :3 Taki/Natsu have some interesting manouvering options and the likes of Amy/Raphael can often flit about with certain moves, often hitting you far outside the ranges you'd expect.
By comparison, Astaroth doesn't really 'lumber' in the way the likes of Zangief or Potemkin do, having a movement speed that's in-line with most of the other members and can just as easily dodge around someone as anyone else in the cast.

For myself personally, movesets are secondary to design as I always use whoever I like as a character first, and if they have a cool moveset, then that's just a bonus. I don't play competitively so it's a luxury I can afford myself. I do know it's sad to miss out on character designs you've looked forward to, that how I feel everytime I see Zubaz or Juri's original design, for example. I love seeing concept art, but knowing what could of been can be painful sometimes. But even if we did get that character you posted, I don't think they'd play exactly as Abel does now, since design would naturally influence how they fight as well. Possibly similar, but not the same. (And I know which Rufus design you're talking about, but even though he's also attractive, I think the primary feeling that design was aiming for was cool/badass, not quite the same as Abel IMO.)

And I would say Abel fills a different level of attractiveness. Not the "pretty boy" type, but more the bara aesthetic, which primarily appeals to gay men, such as myself.

yeah, I'm not all that competitive myself but the people I play fighting games with are and while I don't need to rule the roost I do like to at least feel competent so I don't get left behind :3 As such the more the moveset aligns with how i actually play, the better, but like yourself I primarily play whoever I like the look of most

Never been a bara fan myself, but it's nice to have a little bit of something for everyone so I'm glad you have a character that goes with what you like :3

I wonder if they'd ever consider bringing the old abel design back but as a new, independant character? (but still a grappler )

 

[Hours Left]

Just because one disagrees with you? lol ok
The opinion of Abel being boring is actually pretty widespread so i think you are fighting a losing battle.

Just to be clear i'm not saying that Abel design should've been the young boy/girl prototype one but just anything aside what we actually got, it really is boring and forgettable.

You said he was a waste of a slot, which is disrespectful to anyone that does like him. All these comments are being done in a dogpile type situation, which is not very friendly IMO.

I'm not saying Abel is topping the charts, but he's not scrapping the bottom of the barrel either, and trying to pass off your opinion as a generally held fact when there are actual numbers that refute seems to me that you're just trying to tear the character due to your personal feelings.

I think a few of the SF4 characters look bad in 4's engine. C. Viper looked way better in MvC3 than her original iteration.

The graphic style of SFIV was harsh on a lot of characters IMO, particularly the female cast.

 

[Renekton]

You know we should really tweet or bring to Capcom's attention that they need to drop the vagina tax (pardon the expression).

It is specific to balancing. Else Seth with 1000 health would need major nerfs to his moveset.

You can petition for a female bruiser tho

 

[Geminosity]

You said he was a waste of a slot, which is disrespectful to anyone that does like him. All these comments are being done in a dogpile type situation, which is not very friendly IMO.

I'm not saying Abel is topping the charts, but he's not scrapping the bottom of the barrel either, and trying to pass off your opinion as a generally held fact when there are actual numbers that refute seems to me that you're just trying to tear the character due to your personal feelings.

Yeah, I feel kinda responsible for this now: the tone of my initial posts on the matter probably didn't help much. Sorry -.-

 

[Troubled Bat]

I hope that happens. I wanna see that new outfit in action.